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Let's say Bell does show/sign: What Then?


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#1 NAn

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Posted 06 November 2018 - 01:54 PM

I know there's a long thread re: Bell, but that is more about if/why/how he would show/sign, I want to just discuss:

Assuming Bell does show/sign by the 11/13 date...What Then?

 

That would be wk11, would they really let him even be active that week?

 

Even if/when he starts to play, how affect will he be after not playing live football since last since January?

 

Will they let him play? How much? 

 

What role? GL? between 20s? Situational?

 

Considering not playing so long/holdout situation, will he have a real/manufactured injury?

 

Admittedly I got Connor on the cheap in auction b/c of this situation and he's leading my team definitely.  I'm in camp where I'm just going to ride him through however this plays out, even turning down some decent offers for him, so it's not about if I should move him or not.  I'm keeping him.

 

I'm just curious on takes on this as honestly, although been annoying to revisit each week, it's a train wreck I just can't look away from.

 

 



#2 LaChup

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Posted 06 November 2018 - 02:02 PM

I think he should be the highest paid bench warmer in the history of the universe and galaxy put together.



#3 Ehlana

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Posted 06 November 2018 - 02:57 PM

We'd all be guessing. If I had to guess, and since you asked I may as well, I would guess Bell would be a very expensive 3rd down/2 minute offense back. He's an excellent receiver and if he's catching passes on the perimeter instead of running into 300 pound defensive lineman, he can just cruise out of bounds to avoid taking any hits and risking injury. Something like a 70/30 split in conner's favour.

 

But I have Conner so I'm being optimistic I think.

 

They could give him the two weeks off and then just have a 50/50 split which would kinda tank Conner's value, at least until Bell gets hurt b/c he's not in game shape.



#4 SpenceToons

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Posted 06 November 2018 - 03:14 PM

If it should deteriorate into a timeshare, I may well start them both because....

 

(.50 x Conner) +  (.50 x Bell) >  (.50 x Conner) + (1.00 x YZ)

 

 

Where YZ = What my other scrub RBs have been delivering these days. 



#5 jgcrawfish

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Posted 06 November 2018 - 03:21 PM

We'd all be guessing. If I had to guess, and since you asked I may as well, I would guess Bell would be a very expensive 3rd down/2 minute offense back. He's an excellent receiver and if he's catching passes on the perimeter instead of running into 300 pound defensive lineman, he can just cruise out of bounds to avoid taking any hits and risking injury. Something like a 70/30 split in conner's favour.

 

But I have Conner so I'm being optimistic I think.

 

They could give him the two weeks off and then just have a 50/50 split which would kinda tank Conner's value, at least until Bell gets hurt b/c he's not in game shape.

I think it's almost a given they they roster exempt him for the 2 weeks.  There has been some talk (by reporters) of having Bell play in the slot with Conner in the backfield because 3rd WR spot has been a bit of a hole for the Steelers this year.  Washington (the rookie) has been inconsistent and benched a couple of times.  Eli Rogers isn't even back from PUP yet, so there is some logic there.  But I still don't think Bell will accept that role.  



"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

#6 NAn

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Posted 06 November 2018 - 03:36 PM

Nice takes guys...

 

Ehlana...

Again, also a Conner owner, but think it starting 70/30, then eventually to 50/50 is realistic, just would be how long they build to it and if they do the 2 weeks exemption.

 

JG...

That would be a creative way of using him except would consider going over middle of field open to hits, so as you say, may not accept that role.

 

I also think the 2 week exemption is likely, so then you get Conner through week13...that's pretty good. Now realize then production could be split between them for playoffs, but hey, we still have to get there first.



#7 jgcrawfish

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Posted 06 November 2018 - 04:53 PM

Nice takes guys...

 

Ehlana...

Again, also a Conner owner, but think it starting 70/30, then eventually to 50/50 is realistic, just would be how long they build to it and if they do the 2 weeks exemption.

 

JG...

That would be a creative way of using him except would consider going over middle of field open to hits, so as you say, may not accept that role.

 

I also think the 2 week exemption is likely, so then you get Conner through week13...that's pretty good. Now realize then production could be split between them for playoffs, but hey, we still have to get there first.

 

I still think the locker room chemistry is a very underrated factor in this.  If the Steelers come out of the next few weeks (the tougher part of their schedule) and still look like one of the better AFC teams, I have to believe they will want anything to rock the boat.  i actually can see a scenario where they use the roster exemption for 2 weeks, then pay Bell for the last few weeks and inactivate him.  He doesn't get hurt so it's a favor to him in a way, and locker room stays united behind Conner.  Shelling out 6 million for nothing hurt, but they planned on shelling out nearly $15 million this season for him.  



"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

#8 NAn

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Posted 06 November 2018 - 05:19 PM

 

I still think the locker room chemistry is a very underrated factor in this.  If the Steelers come out of the next few weeks (the tougher part of their schedule) and still look like one of the better AFC teams, I have to believe they will want anything to rock the boat.  i actually can see a scenario where they use the roster exemption for 2 weeks, then pay Bell for the last few weeks and inactivate him.  He doesn't get hurt so it's a favor to him in a way, and locker room stays united behind Conner.  Shelling out 6 million for nothing hurt, but they planned on shelling out nearly $15 million this season for him.  

 

Personally don't think it's under rated at all. One of the big sports mistakes cited locally here in California Bay Area was when the A's were rolling a few years ago and then in middle of the year, traded Yoenis Cespedes for John Lester.  Although on paper it may have been a good deal, many insiders stated afterwards that it just messed up the team chemistry and the team just didn't perform as well afterward.

 

I would think particularly a franchise like Pittsburgh, that has a reputation for 'doing things right', 'team first', would want to avoid doing something similar.

 

It would be one thing if they were like 4-5 and felt needed something to get them over the top, but they've righted the ship after a rough start, and could see them not wanting to mess with a good thing.



#9 stonewall

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Posted 06 November 2018 - 05:41 PM

I own neither, so don't have a dog in this hunt. However, it is my opinion, although Conner has been fantastic, he is not on the same plane as Bell....when the latter is healthy. In fact, I don't believe that Conner can carry Bell's jockstrap. 

 

If Bell returns, barring vengeful payback by Tomlin, he bleeds Conner dry....and vice versa.


I feel my football knowledge is vastly superior to my opponents. I also am just in general, a smarter person. These two things should allow me a huge advantage. But I've yet to be truly dominant.


#10 jrokh

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Posted 06 November 2018 - 05:48 PM

Can a Guy who hasn't played football at all for almost a year just go from 0-60 and in a few weeks carry a full workload? I don't see it. Everyone assumes he can because of last year, but Bell still came back before the season started, this is a much different scenario.



#11 NAn

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Posted 06 November 2018 - 05:58 PM

I own neither, so don't have a dog in this hunt. However, it is my opinion, although Conner has been fantastic, he is not on the same plane as Bell....when the latter is healthy. In fact, I don't believe that Conner can carry Bell's jockstrap. 

 

If Bell returns, barring vengeful payback by Tomlin, he bleeds Conner dry....and vice versa.

 

Hey I asked for all takes, even dissenting ones and this one is definitely valid and possible. Again all this is why this is so interesting.



#12 Kent

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Posted 06 November 2018 - 06:04 PM

Ill need to see a full game from him before I start him. And Ive held all year.

#13 polecatt

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Posted 06 November 2018 - 07:36 PM

I don't know that the Steelers will play him that much to start.

He will ease his way back into the starting role but I just don't see him being the main guy immediately considering how well Conner is playing.



#14 jgcrawfish

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Posted 06 November 2018 - 08:38 PM

I own neither, so don't have a dog in this hunt. However, it is my opinion, although Conner has been fantastic, he is not on the same plane as Bell....when the latter is healthy. In fact, I don't believe that Conner can carry Bell's jockstrap. 

 

If Bell returns, barring vengeful payback by Tomlin, he bleeds Conner dry....and vice versa.

Connor is on pace to out-do Bell's best season ever as a Steeler, and is doing so after what was essentially a red-shirt year last where he barely played and was hurt.  Rookie Le'Veon Bell didn't look like the Le'Veon we all know.  Connor is getting the same yards, more big plays and more TD's in a season where Roethlisberger is on pace to throw for 5000 yrds.  There really isn't any drop-off with Conner vs Bell.  All this while earning $754,000 for the season, vs Le'Veon at $855,000 per game.  



"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

#15 jimaveli

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Posted 06 November 2018 - 10:51 PM

Connor is a good football player and he should be good for years to come assuming health. The Steelers are collectively divorce-bodying Bell because they are disfunctional enough to want to do that to a dude they rode into the ground regularly after he acted out.

#16 LaChup

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Posted 06 November 2018 - 11:01 PM

His agent gave him some bad advice. Shame on bad agents.



#17 TheUsualSuspect

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Posted 06 November 2018 - 11:10 PM

However, it is my opinion, although Conner has been fantastic, he is not on the same plane as Bell....when the latter is healthy. In fact, I don't believe that Conner can carry Bell's jockstrap.


Numbers suggest otherwise. Why do you feel this way?
"I don't want your money... I want your bookie's money." -Walter Abrams

#18 Franknbeans

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Posted 07 November 2018 - 05:42 AM

a nugget from Evan Silva...

Conner leads the AFC in rushing (706) and the entire NFL in runs of 20-plus yards (8). Le’Veon Bell managed seven 20-plus-yard carries over the 2016-2017 seasons combined

#19 cavern

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Posted 07 November 2018 - 06:59 AM

did they ride him into the ground or did they just do what they do - and that is have a featured back?  is that so bad, to have a featured back?  my memory is that many teams used to feature a back.  are they now "riding conner into the ground"?

 

and in doing so, did they give him an opportunity that allowed him to out stat just about everyone and push his value way up?  he could be making $14M+ this year.  what he has since done to his own value is not on the steelers.

 

maybe they should have done a little better in negotiations.  or maybe, just maybe, they knew what many people didn't.  that he was not worth a huge, long term, deal with lots of guaranteed money.  after all, conner is performing just as well.  does he now deserve the best RB contract in the history of the game?

 

i'm a steelers fan.  at first i WAS annoyed with the steelers.  but now, not so much.  based on what i've SEEN, the steelers were RIGHT in not paying him the huge huge dollars.  now i just pray bell doesn't somehow put a damper on the steelers progress.  i guess i shouldn't fault bell for exercising his rights any more than i do the steelers - but it surprises me that there are still people saying the steelers are the bad guys here - that they SHOULD have thrown away their cap money unnecessarily

 

Connor is a good football player and he should be good for years to come assuming health. The Steelers are collectively divorce-bodying Bell because they are disfunctional enough to want to do that to a dude they rode into the ground regularly after he acted out.



#20 jimaveli

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Posted 07 November 2018 - 07:15 AM

Bell is guilty of pushing too hard for 2-4 years of 14+ million per, but he viewed it as a necessity. That Shazier injury probably shook him to his core. The Steelers tired of his push and stonewalled him. He took a hike to make a point and failed because lots of people are focused on the stats. And now here we are. It is a shame all around. Neither side is totally clean to me. I hope they do not do the same thing to Connor when his time comes to get better than his rookie deal. The guy beat cancer to come back and play. The Steelers need to pay the kid when the time comes.

#21 cavern

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Posted 07 November 2018 - 07:46 AM

i can live with this. the prior post seemed to put it all on the steelers.

 

as far as "need to pay the kid when the time comes" - i'll say that the steelers need to do what is best for the franchise as a whole.  maybe the "rules" suck.  but isn't that more of a beef to take to the NFLPA to try to resolve rather than one individual team?  one thing i certainly believe is that, if the steelers were to overpay for a position and, as such, end up with insufficient talent at other spots (and start to lose), people wouldn't be saying "well, at least ___ got his!"  they'd be saying "whatever happened to the steelers?  man they need some changes in management to get this back on the tracks!"

 

Bell is guilty of pushing too hard for 2-4 years of 14+ million per, but he viewed it as a necessity. That Shazier injury probably shook him to his core. The Steelers tired of his push and stonewalled him. He took a hike to make a point and failed because lots of people are focused on the stats. And now here we are. It is a shame all around. Neither side is totally clean to me. I hope they do not do the same thing to Connor when his time comes to get better than his rookie deal. The guy beat cancer to come back and play. The Steelers need to pay the kid when the time comes.



#22 jimaveli

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Posted 07 November 2018 - 08:41 AM

Very true. The NFLPA took some pretty big losses the last time. Mainly, most young non-qb players are not okay with the franchise tag and how it has been used to buy time to decide if they want a player long term or not. Meanwhile, qbs like Tanny and Brock made big money from being in the right place at the right time and/or playing well for a portion of one season.

Positional caps might be the answer as opposed to an overall cap. As it stands, the pats have an extra advantage because their qb is married to a supermodel and is willing to take less money per year. Any team that lands the right coach/young qb combo gets a 3 or so year window to beat down other teams until they have to fork over big $ for that qb. And then, the adjustment period happens and, like you said, we are left to wonder what went wrong until they get another set of prime time rookies. Bengals. Seahawks. Falcons. Panthers.

#23 jgcrawfish

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Posted 07 November 2018 - 08:49 AM

There is lots of info running around on the net.  The two prevailing thoughts are:

 

1). The Steelers offered him a 4 yr contract at $14 million per year with only $10 million guarantted. 

2). The Steelers offered him a 4 yr contract at $14 million per year with $30 million guaranteed.  

 

If it's 1, then the Steelers definitely screwed it up.  If it's 2, then Bell screwed it up with his rumored price tag of $17 million per yr.  There's blame on both sides regardless, but this also boils down to Le'Veon Bells words.  He said this wasn't about the money, that it was about resetting the RB market.  But the RB market isn't what Bell thinks it is.  They are getting Bell-like production out of a guy that costs them less per year than Bell does per game.  James Conner isn't a generational talent (he's no Saquon) and the Steelers are proving that at the RB spot the components may in fact be interchangeable, particularly with the line and skill position talent around it.  

 

Mark Kaboly is reporting that there is a good chance that Bell will not report by the deadline of Nov 13.  If he doesn't, he CANNOT play this year.  6 more days of waiting/wondering/guessing/conjecturing.  

 

:dunno:



"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

#24 jrokh

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Posted 07 November 2018 - 08:55 AM

I just saw that report which suggests what was said yesterday that Bell doesn't have to sign to get the bump to his franchise tag next year. He has no incentive to sign other than boosting his value by playing a lot and playing well.

#25 RabidSeaCows

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Posted 07 November 2018 - 09:06 AM

I think the rule is you have to Suit up for 6 games for your contract to count for the year. If he doesn't suit up for at least 6 games, They can put the transitional tag on him next year which would mean they could match any offer a team gives him first. So he would go from $15M a year to $8-9M per year. I'm not sure if playoff games count though since it's obvious at this point PIT is gonna win the division.


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#26 stonewall

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Posted 07 November 2018 - 09:07 AM

Numbers suggest otherwise. Why do you feel this way?

 

Probably just a catharsis, to purge myself of a reactive attachment disorder still lingering from childhood, that appears to have altered the development of my amygdala.....which is walnut-sized, as opposed to the desirable almond-sized.


I feel my football knowledge is vastly superior to my opponents. I also am just in general, a smarter person. These two things should allow me a huge advantage. But I've yet to be truly dominant.


#27 jgcrawfish

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Posted 07 November 2018 - 09:38 AM

 

Probably just a catharsis, to purge myself of a reactive attachment disorder still lingering from childhood, that appears to have altered the development of my amygdala.....which is walnut-sized, as opposed to the desirable almond-sized.

 

Coloner Sanders:  "I think he's got something wrong with HIS medula oblongata!".  



"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

#28 RabidSeaCows

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Posted 07 November 2018 - 05:35 PM

Bell tweeted Monday he was leaving his training spot in Miami. There were rumblings he planned to sign his franchise tag this week, but there's a chance he sits out all season. Bell counts as a third-year franchise player in 2019 even if he doesn't sign, so his $25 million tag number will prevent the Steelers from franchising him again in the offseason. Bell will forfeit his remaining $6.84 million salary if he doesn't report before next week.

 

As per yahoo Sports. So disregard my earlier post, please.


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#29 jgcrawfish

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Posted 07 November 2018 - 08:59 PM

Bell tweeted Monday he was leaving his training spot in Miami. There were rumblings he planned to sign his franchise tag this week, but there's a chance he sits out all season. Bell counts as a third-year franchise player in 2019 even if he doesn't sign, so his $25 million tag number will prevent the Steelers from franchising him again in the offseason. Bell will forfeit his remaining $6.84 million salary if he doesn't report before next week.

 

As per yahoo Sports. So disregard my earlier post, please.

 

Just fyi...all that is true as long as you are ONLY talking about the Franchise tag.  The Steelers can still use the transition tag on him, which tenders him at much less and allows them to match whatever offer he might get from someplace else.  Compensation is lessened.  



"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

#30 thePRO

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Posted 07 November 2018 - 09:07 PM

They won't tag him at all next season. If they're smart, they will let him leave and get a 3rd round pick as compensation. 


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#31 jgcrawfish

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Posted 07 November 2018 - 09:09 PM

They won't tag him at all next season. If they're smart, they will let him leave and get a 3rd round pick as compensation. 

 

They are still holding out hope that he's worth a 2nd in a trade vs a 3rd in FA compensation.  Not saying I believe it, but maximizing the return is the goal.  



"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

#32 Smileseers

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Posted 07 November 2018 - 10:23 PM

Bell was seen in Pittsburgh today at a LA fitness working out and playing pickup basketball.

 

He will sign the tag tomorrow before the Thursday night game.  

 

Why else would he be in Pittsburgh?


STEELERS

#33 LaChup

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Posted 07 November 2018 - 10:36 PM

To watch the game.



#34 cavern

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Posted 08 November 2018 - 08:56 AM

every time i thought i had a handle on this so far, i've been wrong.  i guess watching the news is all i can do.



#35 jgcrawfish

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Posted 08 November 2018 - 09:07 AM

every time i thought i had a handle on this so far, i've been wrong.  i guess watching the news is all i can do.

 

well, you will know by Tuesday.  If he doesn't show by that day, he can't play at all this season for Pittsburgh or anybody else.  



"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

#36 cavern

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Posted 08 November 2018 - 09:20 AM

yeah.  as a steelers fan i would be ho hum either way.  probably slightly better if he does NOT report.

 

likewise as a dynasty owner i would be ho hum either way.  if he reports now, he still doesn't provide a heck of alot of value through week 16 PLUS he might have to take up a real roster spot (for some reason he's been eligible for IR in ESPN leagues)

 

 

well, you will know by Tuesday.  If he doesn't show by that day, he can't play at all this season for Pittsburgh or anybody else.  



#37 RabidSeaCows

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Posted 08 November 2018 - 09:40 AM

every time i thought i had a handle on this so far, i've been wrong.  i guess watching the news is all i can do.

 

Amen, brother. Amen.


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Mayfield                                                                                       Dalton

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#38 jgcrawfish

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Posted 08 November 2018 - 10:47 AM

So much craziness still...from Ian Rappaport:

 

This is fascinating. Sounds like Le’Veon Bell and his agent did not realize until it was reported (by @TomPelissero) that Bell’s tag next year would be the QB tag for about $25M. This makes it less likely that he shows because it’s either transition tag or free agent.



"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

#39 cavern

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Posted 08 November 2018 - 11:11 AM

luckily his agent can find out pertinent information concerning his client from...reporters?



#40 SpenceToons

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Posted 08 November 2018 - 12:37 PM

Sounds like Bell would have been better served by having a State Farm "agent" as his agent.