Another school shooting...

[penultimatestraw 473]

Yep. Obviously, we'd like to minimize or eliminate them as much as possible but it's amazing how people like Pen get so upset about shootings in general when the odds of any individual being involved in one is almost nil, especially when you remove the gang/inner city statistics.

Im not remotely upset. And Im not the one advocating arming teachers for such an astronomically uncommon event. On the contrary, Im arguing such action will cause more harm than good.

[BLS 313]

Wow. what a purse-swinging fest.

[5-Points 2,726]

 

What percentage of areas where large numbers of people congregate are gun-free zones? That is sort of an important part of the statistic.

I believe GFZ's are so designated specifically because large numbers of people congregate in them. Schools, malls, movie theaters etc. The potential for mass casualties is what prompted the whole cockamamie idea.

[penultimatestraw 473]

You didn't even comprehend the little you did read. The CO springs hero wasn't a former security guard but a VOLUNTEER security guard. And what does that have to do with anything anyways? Do you consider security guards to be any more qualified than the average joe? I don't really look at security guards as any kind of savior.

 

But let me help you out some more:

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/10/03/do-civilians-with-guns-ever-stop-mass-shootings/?utm_term=.69c367d67f88

 

Can't wait for your retort about this article. You know, there's no shame in admitting when you're wrong.

 

No one is arguing that a concealed carrier cant conceivably stop a mass shooting. Were arguing that it isnt very likely, and that greater potential for harm exists by more citizens packing heat, especially teachers.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

I believe GFZ's are so designated specifically because large numbers of people congregate in them. Schools, malls, movie theaters etc. The potential for mass casualties is what prompted the whole cockamamie idea.

 

Which was pretty much my point. A statistic like that is relatively useless without an understanding of the entire statistical population. People will look at the factors as being causal or contributory, when they may be irrelevant.

[cyclone24 1,814]

No one is arguing that a concealed carrier cant conceivably stop a mass shooting. Were arguing that is isnt very likely, and that greater potential for harm exists by more citizens packing heat, especially teachers.

This.

 

I'm also not sure I really want a concealed carry person making those decisions if their life is not on the line.

I mean let's stay I stopped at the gas station and I'm in the store when an armed robber comes in to rob it. I can't say that I really want some concealed carry person in the aisle next to me opening fire because they want to be the good guy hero with a gun.

[Strike 3,958]

 

Didn't you just call him "a focking sick fock"?

 

That's name calling? I think it's pretty sick to discount incidents where the death toll would have been higher but for the hero taking the perp out.

[Strike 3,958]

No one is arguing that a concealed carrier cant conceivably stop a mass shooting. Were arguing that it isnt very likely, and that greater potential for harm exists by more citizens packing heat, especially teachers.

 

It's like you didn't even read the quote I was responding to, which said exactly that a CC couldn't stop a mass shooting. It's like you learned how to read from Cyclone24.

 

[cyclone24 1,814]

 

That's name calling? I think it's pretty sick to discount incidents where the death toll would have been higher but for the hero taking the perp out.

Weird I think it's sick to promote a gun agenda that keeps getting people killed under this idea that somehow 26 people dying before anyone shows up is stopping a mass shooting. Because well he might have shot 50. Maybe. But we don't know.

 

That is f****** insane

[Strike 3,958]

Weird I think it's sick to promote a gun agenda that keeps getting people killed under this idea that somehow 26 people dying before anyone shows up is stopping a mass shooting. Because well he might have shot 50. Maybe. But we don't know.

 

That is f****** insane

 

This would make sense if I'd ever "promoted" such a gun agenda.

 

[wiffleball 4,639]

And seriously, round Pizza, square box?

 

One simple change and we could save / 582 million Acres of Woodlands every year.

[penultimatestraw 473]

It's like you didn't even read the quote I was responding to, which said exactly that a CC couldn't stop a mass shooting. It's like you learned how to read from Cyclone24.

 

Funny how cyclone agreed with my post then.

[IMMensaMind 459]

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-03-08/mainstream-media-misdirect-israel-gold-standard-gun-control-implements-nra

 

The narrative is being twisted, to create the impression that the solution is to eliminate guns from the hands of the general population.

 

Nothing could be more divorced from the truth.

 

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-03-08/mainstream-media-misdirect-israel-gold-standard-gun-control-implements-nra

 

More important, though, is this: the US is unique in the world. Gun ban despots are also globalists, and they need the Grand Prize: the US. Without it, any plans to really control global populations via a place like Brussels falls flat.

 

Chaos is being created here to foment such change.

[IMMensaMind 459]

Im not remotely upset. And Im not the one advocating arming teachers for such an astronomically uncommon event. On the contrary, Im arguing such action will cause more harm than good.

But you have no evidence of it, and face an uphill battle, since such practices already have a good track record: no shootings 0in schools with armed teachers, and no accidents involving those armed teachers.

[wiffleball 4,639]

I want to meet the guy who invented that little plastic thing that keeps the top of the pizza box from collapsing onto the pizza itself. I mean, even had half a penny per unit, that feather marker is probably a billionaire by now. Or at least hundreds of millionaire. How cool would that be? Some Stoner pissed off the he's eating cheese off the top of a box one day A year later he's a freaking billionaire. That's a pretty cool life story.

[Cloaca du jour 2,064]

74% of mass shootings happen in gun free zones and 85% of shooting deaths occur in gun free zones.

 

Soft targets are easier to kill.

Mass shooting is all about the numbers.

Try Cleveland Browns stadium on a sunday.. would be a mercy killing .

[penultimatestraw 473]

But you have no evidence of it, and face an uphill battle, since such practices already have a good track record: no shootings 0in schools with armed teachers, and no accidents involving those armed teachers.

I have plenty of evidence, as private gun ownership has been clearly shown to increase ones risk of death. I’ve posted the links repeatedly, which all you gun lovers conveniently ignore.

 

And if a school resource officer can accidentally fire their weapon, I’m willing to bet a teacher can too. A quick google search confirms this to be the case: http://people.com/crime/calif-teacher-gun-training-allegedly-fires-weapon-accidentally-injuring-student/

 

California authorities are considering criminal charges against a high school math teacher who allegedly accidentally discharged a firearm during a class about public safety, non-fatally injuring a male student, according to multiple reports.

 

According to the Washington Post, Dennis Alexander is a reserve police officer with extensive firearms training.

 

The incident occurred inside Seaside High School, as Alexander was allegedly pointing his gun at the ceiling, the paper reports.

 

The gun allegedly discharged by accident, and the bullet sent shrapnel flying into a 17-year-old student’s neck, reports KSBW.

[IMMensaMind 459]

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-03-08/mainstream-media-misdirect-israel-gold-standard-gun-control-implements-nra

The narrative is being twisted, to create the impression that the solution is to eliminate guns from the hands of the general population.

Nothing could be more divorced from the truth.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-03-08/mainstream-media-misdirect-israel-gold-standard-gun-control-implements-nra

More important, though, is this: the US is unique in the world. Gun ban despots are also globalists, and they need the Grand Prize: the US. Without it, any plans to really control global populations via a place like Brussels falls flat.

Chaos is being created here to foment such change.

And social media is being co-opted to brainwash you:

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/JamesL77702978/status/974746457315082241?s=02

[IMMensaMind 459]

I have plenty of evidence, as private gun ownership has been clearly shown to increase ones risk of death. I’ve posted the links repeatedly, which all you gun lovers conveniently ignore.

And if a school resource officer can accidentally fire their weapon, I’m willing to bet a teacher can too. A quick google search confirms this to be the case: http://people.com/crime/calif-teacher-gun-training-allegedly-fires-weapon-accidentally-injuring-student/

California authorities are considering criminal charges against a high school math teacher who allegedly accidentally discharged a firearm during a class about public safety, non-fatally injuring a male student, according to multiple reports.

According to the Washington Post, Dennis Alexander is a reserve police officer with extensive firearms training.

The incident occurred inside Seaside High School, as Alexander was allegedly pointing his gun at the ceiling, the paper reports.

The gun allegedly discharged by accident, and the bullet sent shrapnel flying into a 17-year-old student’s neck, reports KSBW.

Oh no.

 

I am not looking to create perfection. I am not seeking the perfect to become the enemy of the good. That’s you, and it’s fantasy.

[penultimatestraw 473]

Oh no.

I am not looking to create perfection. I am not seeking the perfect to become the enemy of the good. Thats you, and its fantasy.

No one expects perfection. I want to improve the situation by making students and school personnel safer. Adding firearms to a stressful workplace filled with kids in the hopes of thwarting a rare event will make it worse.

 

Also, you may want to edit or delete your post about armed teachers never unintentionally harming anyone.

[IMMensaMind 459]

No one expects perfection. I want to improve the situation by making students and school personnel safer. Adding firearms to a stressful workplace filled with kids in the hopes of thwarting a rare event will make it worse.

Except you cited an event even more rare than the circumstance being discussed needing prevention.

 

Also, you may want to edit or delete your post about armed teachers never unintentionally harming anyone.

It remains statistically never, so I dismiss your suggestion.

[penultimatestraw 473]

Except you cited an event even more rare than the circumstance being discussed needing prevention.

 

It remains statistically never, so I dismiss your suggestion.

LOL. School shootings are also statistically never, so why are we even talking about them?

 

Another google search yields info regarding those amazing Israelis: https://nypost.com/2018/02/26/no-israeli-teachers-dont-bring-guns-to-school/

 

Despite repeated claims by some gun advocates, teachers in Israel are not allowed to bring guns into their classrooms, a government spokesman said Monday.

 

“In general, personal weapons are not permitted on school premises in Israel,” Almog Elijis, a spokesman for the Israeli Consulate in New York, told The Post.

 

Fox News analyst Andrew Napolitano appears to have been one of the first to float the notion that Israeli students are safer than their American counterparts because they’re protected by gun-toting educators.

 

You may want to fact check better. Although it’s largely irrelevant, I’m still waiting for confirmation of gun ownership in Israel. Everything I’ve seen has it much lower than the US. If that is true and teachers aren’t typically armed, you’re gonna have to find another suspect factoid to support your nonsense.

[Sho Nuff 719]

And social media is being co-opted to brainwash you:

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/JamesL77702978/status/974746457315082241?s=02

You cite Qanon , 4chan and zerohedge.

Focking looney.

[penultimatestraw 473]

For those of you who really have interest in Israeli gun ownership (and Switzerland, the other country gun proponents suggest we emulate): https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3267868/

 

Spoiler alert! Their guns are far more regulated than ours.

[BLS 313]

LOL. School shootings are also statistically never, so why are we even talking about them?

 

Another google search yields info regarding those amazing Israelis: https://nypost.com/2018/02/26/no-israeli-teachers-dont-bring-guns-to-school/

 

Despite repeated claims by some gun advocates, teachers in Israel are not allowed to bring guns into their classrooms, a government spokesman said Monday.

 

“In general, personal weapons are not permitted on school premises in Israel,” Almog Elijis, a spokesman for the Israeli Consulate in New York, told The Post.

 

Fox News analyst Andrew Napolitano appears to have been one of the first to float the notion that Israeli students are safer than their American counterparts because they’re protected by gun-toting educators.

 

You may want to fact check better. Although it’s largely irrelevant, I’m still waiting for confirmation of gun ownership in Israel. Everything I’ve seen has it much lower than the US. If that is true and teachers aren’t typically armed, you’re gonna have to find another suspect factoid to support your nonsense.

 

So then you agree guns aren't really a problem for school shootings.

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,578]

This.

 

I'm also not sure I really want a concealed carry person making those decisions if their life is not on the line.

I mean let's stay I stopped at the gas station and I'm in the store when an armed robber comes in to rob it. I can't say that I really want some concealed carry person in the aisle next to me opening fire because they want to be the good guy hero with a gun.

 

what if you or your spouse were getting carjacked at gunpoint, how would you feel about a guy with a CC right about then

[mobb_deep 917]

 

what if you or your spouse were getting carjacked at gunpoint, how would you feel about a guy with a CC right about then

Youre still statistically safer without a gun in that situation. Dont get me wrong, I love guns as much as the next guy. That doesnt change the facts though.

[BLS 313]

Youre still statistically safer without a gun in that situation. Dont get me wrong, I love guns as much as the next guy. That doesnt change the facts though.

 

Source?

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,578]

Youre still statistically safer without a gun in that situation. Dont get me wrong, I love guns as much as the next guy. That doesnt change the facts though.

 

maybe maybe not

 

how about this, your wife gets in the car and you get jacked while walking to your side to get in, and the dude jumps in your car with your wife and maybe kids in the back seat? I will pray there is a CnC near by. Of Course its Cali so they aren't around

[penultimatestraw 473]

So then you agree guns aren't really a problem for school shootings.

Guns are a big part of our country’s problem with violence, and a huge contributor to suicides. School shootings are too rare to determine how much role gun availability plays in them, but our lenient regulation cannot be helping matters.

[penultimatestraw 473]

what if you or your spouse were getting carjacked at gunpoint, how would you feel about a guy with a CC right about then

How would you feel if you spouse pulled the gun on you? Or your kids found it and shot somebody? You might consider suicide, because all three scenarios are far more likely than your cc hero stopping the carjacker.

[Strike 3,958]

Guns are a big part of our country’s problem with violence, and a huge contributor to suicides. School shootings are too rare to determine how much role gun availability plays in them, but our lenient regulation cannot be helping matters.

 

:lol:

[mobb_deep 917]

 

Source?

commonsense.org

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

 

Do you think it might have helped in Florida if there had been a few teachers who were packing and had appropriate training?

I dont think it would have. Theyd have done just like the cop did. Cower somewhere and wait for the swat team.

 

Gun nuts love guns when they are toys. Love the idea of protecting people in the abstract. When a nut with an ar15 is spraying down the halls, their 9mm pistol doesnt look so cool anymore.

[BLS 313]

commonsense.org

You're collectively in the dipshit group along with wiffleball.

[penultimatestraw 473]

:lol:

Glad you find humor in completed suicides, I guess.

[Strike 3,958]

Glad you find humor in completed suicides, I guess.

 

Yeah, god forbid people actually be able to do with their lives what they want, including end it. Thank god they have people like you fighting for their "right" to be miserable when they'd rather just end the pain.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,627]

 

Yeah, god forbid people actually be able to do with their lives what they want, including end it. Thank god they have people like you fighting for their "right" to be miserable when they'd rather just end the pain.

You think that covers all suicides? Like a teenager?

[Strike 3,958]

You think that covers all suicides? Like a teenager?

 

Why would a teen committing suicide do it for any different reasons than an adult? And let's be clear. I think suicides are very sad, especially teen. The daughter of the people who live across the street from me committed suicide at about 18/19 a few years ago. VERY focking sad. 32 b/c. And apparently it was over a boy who wasn't in to her. What a stupid reason to make that decision. But she did. And it was hers. And her right to do so. Even if a week later she might have felt differently. She didn't do it with a gun AFAIK.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,627]

 

Why would a teen committing suicide do it for any different reasons than an adult? And let's be clear. I think suicides are very sad, especially teen. The daughter of the people who live across the street from me committed suicide at about 18/19 a few years ago. VERY focking sad. 32 b/c. And apparently it was over a boy who wasn't in to her. What a stupid reason to make that decision. But she did. And it was hers. And her right to do so. Even if a week later she might have felt differently. She didn't do it with a gun AFAIK.

So no one should have tried to stop her. It's her decision?