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TimmySmith

Actual Number of Illegals in the US.

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Obama keeps using a figure of 4 million when other estimates reach as high as 20 million. He obviously has somehow tapped into a false number who have been here for 5 years, but I think we can all agree that his number is arbitrary and most likely very low. Even the most conservative number is around 11 million.

 

Let use the fake numbers for a second. If there are 11 million illegals and only 4 million have been here for 5 years, what is the plan for the other 7 million. Are they on a 5 year track also? If so, does the legal path to citizenship exist anymore?

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It is a joke. How do they know hook long they have been here if they have been " under the radar"?

 

This will be amnesty for all illegals already here, and all of those about to pour across the border.

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LOLOL @ the degree of obsession that RP/Henry Hill has advanced to. With every new news story, he just foams at the mouth more and more. At this point, I think Obama is just taunting the poor loser. :first: :clap:

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LOLOL @ the degree of obsession that RP/Henry Hill has advanced to. With every new news story, he just foams at the mouth more and more. At this point, I think Obama is just taunting the poor loser. :first: :clap:

Your obsession with him is even funnier sadder. HTH

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Well, if it makes you feel any better, my 'obsession' extends to all of you retards who take politics this seriously and get yourselves worked up every single day because of it. It's pathetic and hilarious all at once. :overhead: :thumbsup: :clap:

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Well, if it makes you feel any better, my 'obsession' extends to all of you retards who take politics this seriously and get yourselves worked up every single day because of it. It's pathetic and hilarious all at once.

 

First off, hey Newie, good to see you around. :thumbsup:

 

And yes to a certain point I do agree with your post above. Some folks get way to caught up in politics around here. However I myself enjoy political commenatry and debate and people posting the latest news stuff going on. I don't mind the political threads in and of themselves, the problem is they turn to quickly into pissing matches and flame wars is the issue for me. I guess what I'm saying is that its not the topics or the fact there are potilical threads, its the instant pissing match that ensues that is the issue.

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First off, hey Newie, good to see you around. :thumbsup:

 

And yes to a certain point I do agree with your post above. Some folks get way to caught up in politics around here. However I myself enjoy political commenatry and debate and people posting the latest news stuff going on. I don't mind the political threads in and of themselves, the problem is they turn to quickly into pissing matches and flame wars is the issue for me. I guess what I'm saying is that its not the topics or the fact there are potilical threads, its the instant pissing match that ensues that is the issue.

Newbie is good at turning them into pissing matches. He has no ability to address the issues, and doesn't care if he ruins the discussion for anyone who cares about the issue. Quite the child.

 

What is your take on Obama's amnesty speech?

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What is your take on Obama's amnesty speech?

 

I didn't see it, so I can't comment. We had happy hour after work yesterday which somehow turned into me being invited to the most private richest country club in my city for a Poker Game. Of which I lost $300 bucks in an hour and half. Apparently I was the Donkey (and I'm not a bad player just don't play much anymore). Afterwards I found out half the players at the table are freaking professional poker players, I thought one guy looked familiar so I asked around this morning and the focking guy has a WSOP bracelet. Yeah I'm stupid. And hungover. And I ddin't watch the speech.

 

What was the question again? :lol:

 

But I am a bit interested on what was said, and will prolly read up on it at lunch. I'll post my opinion then. :thumbsup:

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I don't mind the political threads in and of themselves, the problem is they turn to quickly into pissing matches and flame wars is the issue for me. I guess what I'm saying is that its not the topics or the fact there are potilical threads, its the instant pissing match that ensues that is the issue.

Yes... And like reading from a movie script, you can count and list the same cast of characters that will show up to ruin the thread. Both sides accuse the other of not being able to stay away - truth is, neither of them can do it. They'd rather show their ass and beat the same focking drum for the millionth time than just ignore the topic altogether. It would nice and refreshing if these clowns would just address the topic at face value or stay out of it.

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Here is the transcript...

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/transcript-obamas-immigration-speech/2014/11/20/14ba8042-7117-11e4-893f-86bd390a3340_story.html?Post+generic=%3Ftid%3Dsm_twitter_washingtonpost

 

OBAMA: My fellow Americans, tonight I’d like to talk with you about immigration. For more than 200 years, our tradition of welcoming immigrants from around the world has given us a tremendous advantage over other nations.

 

OBAMA: It’s kept us youthful, dynamic, and entrepreneurial. It has shaped our character as a people with limitless possibilities. People not trapped by our past, but able to remake ourselves as we choose.

 

But today, our immigration system is broken, and everybody knows it. Families who enter our country the right way and play by the rules watch others flout the rules. Business owners who offer their wages good wages benefits see the competition exploit undocumented immigrants by paying them far less. All of us take offense to anyone who reaps the rewards of living in America without taking on the responsibilities of living in America. And undocumented immigrants who desperately want to embrace those responsibilities see little option but to remain in the shadows, or risk their families being torn apart.

 

It’s been this way for decades. And for decades we haven’t done much about it. When I took office, I committed to fixing this broken immigration system. And I began by doing what I could to secure our borders.

 

Today we have more agents and technology deployed to secure our southern border than at any time in our history. And over the past six years illegal border crossings have been cut by more than half.

 

Although this summer there was a brief spike in unaccompanied children being apprehended at our border, the number of such children is actually lower than it’s been in nearly two years.

 

Overall the number of people trying to cross our border illegally is at its lowest level since the 1970s. Those are the facts.

 

Meanwhile, I worked with Congress on a comprehensive fix. And last year 68 Democrats, Republicans, and independents came together to pass a bipartisan bill in the Senate. It wasn’t perfect. It was a compromise. But it reflected common sense. It would have doubled the number of Border Patrol agents, while giving undocumented immigrants a pathway to citizenship, if they paid a fine, started paying their taxes and went to the back of the line. And independent experts said that it would help grow our economy and shrink our deficits.

 

Had the House of Representatives allowed that kind of bill a simple yes or no vote, it would have passed with support from both parties. And today it would be the law. But for a year and a half now Republican leaders in the House have refused to allow that simple vote. Now I continue to believe that the best way to solve this problem is by working together to pass that kind of common sense law. But until that happens, there are actions I have the legal authority to take as president, the same kinds of actions taken by Democratic and Republican presidents before me, that will help make our immigration system more fair and more just.

 

Tonight I’m announcing those actions.

 

OBAMA: First, we’ll build on our progress at the border with additional resources for our law enforcement personnel so that they can stem the flow of illegal crossings and speed the return of those who do cross over.

 

Second, I’ll make it easier and faster for high-skilled immigrants, graduates and entrepreneurs to stay and contribute to our economy, as so many business leaders proposed.

 

Third, we’ll take steps to deal responsibly with the millions of undocumented immigrants who already had live in our country.

 

I want to say more about this third issue, because it generates the most passion and controversy. Even as we are a nation of immigrants, we’re also a nation of laws. Undocumented workers broke our immigration laws, and I believe that they must be held accountable, especially those who may be dangerous.

 

That’s why over the past six years deportations of criminals are up 80 percent, and that’s why we’re going to keep focusing enforcement resources on actual threats to our security. Felons, not families. Criminals, not children. Gang members, not a mom who’s working hard to provide for her kids. We’ll prioritize, just like law e enforcement does every day.

 

But even as we focus on deporting criminals, the fact is millions of immigrants in every state, of every race and nationality still live here illegally.

 

And let’s be honest, tracking down, rounding up and deporting millions of people isn’t realistic. Anyone who suggests otherwise isn’t being straight with you. It’s also not who we are as Americans.

 

After all, most of these immigrants have been here a long time. They work hard often in tough, low paying jobs. They support their families. They worship at our churches. Many of the kids are American born or spent spent most of their lives here. And their hopes, dreams, and patriotism are just like ours.

 

As my predecessor, President Bush, once put it, they are a part of American life.

 

Now here is the thing. We expect people who live in this country to play by the rules. We expect those who cut the line will not be unfairly rewarded. So we’re going to offer the following deal: If you’ve with been in America more than five years. If you have children who are American citizens or illegal residents. If you register, pass a criminal background check and you’re willing to pay your fair share of taxes, you’ll be able to apply to stay in this country temporarily without fear of deportation. You can come out of the shadows and get right with the law. That’s what this deal is.

 

Now let’s be clear about what it isn’t. This deal does not apply to anyone who has come to this country recently. It does not apply to anyone who might come to America illegally in the future. It does not grant citizenship or the right to stay here permanently, or offer the same benefits that citizens receive. Only Congress can do that. All we’re saying is we’re not going to deport you.

 

I know some of the critics of the action call it amnesty. Well, it’s the not. Amnesty is the immigration system we have today. Millions of people who live here without paying their taxes or playing by the rules, while politicians use the issue to scare people and whip up votes at election time. That’s the real amnesty, leaving this broken system the way it is. Mass amnesty would be unfair. Mass deportation would be both impossible and contrary it to our character.

 

What I’m describing is accountability. A common sense middle- ground approach. If you meet the criteria, you can come out of the shadows and get right with the law. If you’re a criminal, you’ll be deported. If you plan to enter the U.S. illegally, your chances of getting caught and sent back just went up.

 

The actions I’m taken are not only lawful, they’re the kinds of actions taken by every single Republican president and every single Democratic president for the past half century.

 

And to those members of Congress who question my authority to make our immigration system work better or question the wisdom of me acting where Congress has failed, I have one answer: Pass a bill. I want to work with both parties to pass a more permanent legislative solution. And the day I sign that bill into law, the actions I take will no longer be necessary.

 

OBAMA: Meanwhile, don’t let a disagreement over a single issue be a deal breaker on every issue. That’s not how our Democracy works, and Congress shouldn’t shut down our government again just because we disagree on this.

 

Americans are tired of gridlock. What our country needs right now is a common purpose, a higher purpose. Most Americans support the types of reforms I’ve talked about tonight, but I understand with the disagreements held by many of you at home.

 

Millions of us, myself included, go back generations in this country, with ancestors who put in the painstaking work to become citizens. So we don’t like the notion anyone might get a free pass to American citizenship.

 

I know some worry immigration will change the very fabric of who we are, or take our jobs, or stick it to middle-class families at a time they already feel they’ve gotten a raw deal for over a decade. I hear those concerns, but that’s not what these steps would do.

 

Our history and the facts show that immigrants are a net plus for our economy and our society. And I believe it’s important that all of us have this debate without impugning each other’s character.

 

Because for all the back and forth in Washington, we have to remember that this debate is about something bigger. It’s about who we are a country and who we want to be for future generations.

 

Are we a nation that tolerates the hypocrisy of a system where workers who pick our fruit and make our beds never have a chance to get right with the law? Or are we a nation that gives them a chance to make amends, take responsibility, and give their kids a better future?

 

Are we a nation that accepts the cruelty of ripping children from their parents’ arms, or are we a nation that values families and works together to keep them together? Are we a nation that educates the world’s best and brightest in our universities only to send them home to create businesses in countries that compete against us, or are we a nation that encourages them to stay and create jobs here, create businesses here, create industries right here in America? That’s what this debate is all about.

 

We need more than politics as usual when it comes to immigration. We need reasoned, thoughtful, compassionate debate that focuses on our hopes, not our fears. I know the politics of this issue are tough, but let me tell you why I have come to feel so strongly about it. Over the past years I’ve seen the determination of immigrant fathers who worked two or three jobs without taking a dime from the government, and at risk any moment of losing it all just to build a better life for their kids. I’ve seen the heartbreak and anxiety of children whose mothers might be taken away from them just because they didn’t have the right papers. I’ve seen the courage of students who except for the circumstances of their birth are as American as Malia or Sasha, students who bravely come out as undocumented in hopes they could make a difference in the country they love.

 

These people, our neighbors, our classmates, our friends, they did not come here in search of a free ride or an easy life. They came to work, and study and serve in our military. And, above all, contribute to American success.

 

Now tomorrow I’ll travel to Las Vegas and meet with some of these students, including a young woman named Astrid Silva. Astrid was brought to America when she was 4 years old. Her only possessions were a cross, her doll, and the frilly dress she had on. When she started school, she didn’t speak any English. She caught up to other kids by reading newspapers and watching PBS. And then she became a good student. Her father worked in landscaping. Her mom cleaned other people’s homes. They wouldn’t let Astrid apply to a technology magnet school, not because they didn’t love her, but because they were afraid the paperwork would out her as an undocumented immigrant. So she applied behind their back and got in.

 

Still, she mostly lived in the shadows until her grandmother, who visited every year from Mexico, passed away, and she couldn’t travel to the funeral without risk of being found out and deported. It was around that time she decided to begin advocating for herself and others like her. And today Astrid Silva a college student working on her third degree.

 

Are we a nation that kicks out a striving, hopeful immigrant like Astrid?

 

OBAMA: Or are we a nation that finds a way to welcome her in? Scripture tells us, we shall not oppress a stranger, for we know the heart of a stranger. We were strangers once, too.

 

My fellow Americans, we are and always will be a nation of immigrants. We were strangers once, too. And whether our forbearers were strangers who crossed the Atlantic, or the Pacific or the Rio Grande, we are here only because this country welcomed them in and taught them that to be an American is about something more than what we look like or what our last names are, or how we worship. What makes us Americans is our shared commitment to an ideal, that all of us are created equal, and all of us have the chance to make of our lives what we will. That’s the country our parents and grandparents and generations before them built for us. That’s the tradition we must uphold. That’s the legacy we must leave for those who are yet to come.

 

Thank you. God bless you. And God bless this country we love.

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Pretty good speech. :thumbsup:

 

Obama has always been good at that. The problem is that he likes to fluff the numbers, and is a master spin doctor. So while I agree with a LOT of what he said.....I wasn't born yesterday and will wait for the cyanide test before drinking his kool-aid.

 

For instance, how does he know all these illegal alien numbers, if they are in the "shadows" ? :unsure:

 

Also I'd like to know more abou this so called Bill he says the Republicans are refusing to pass. He made it sound like the bill was common sense and was middle ground with democrat concessions and stuff. I'd like to see the bill myself. My guess is there is a couple things in it "thrown in" that are deal breakers.

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It won't get fixed anytime soon. The problem is that no one in Congress wants to fix the issue (or any other for that matter). Instead, their sole goal is to be re-elected. As such, it is much easier to just be in conflict with the other party than it is to actually solve problems. Our Congressmen are beholden to their party and not their country. Until we change that fundamental flaw, we are just getting fluffed.

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It won't get fixed anytime soon. The problem is that no one in Congress wants to fix the issue (or any other for that matter). Instead, their sole goal is to be re-elected. As such, it is much easier to just be in conflict with the other party than it is to actually solve problems. Our Congressmen are beholden to their party and not their country. Until we change that fundamental flaw, we are just getting fluffed.

 

I think you should just copy and save this reply so you can paste it into most every political issue thread. It would work most every time. Sad but true. :lol:

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I don't understand why the left considers this a political discussion? It's a numbers discussion. :dunno:

 

I mean, its pretty apparent he is fluffing the numbers and spinning them to fit a narrative he wanted to go with. To me it doesn't really change the issue/solutions all that much though. :dunno:

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I think you should just copy and save this reply so you can paste it into most every political issue thread. It would work most every time. Sad but true. :lol:

Not sure if you noticed, but I do. :P

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This is from AOL News so I'm assuming it is but so biased.

 

WASHINGTON (AP) - President Barack Obama made some notable omissions Thursday night in his remarks about the unilateral actions he's taking on immigration.

 

A look at his statements and how they compare with the facts:

OBAMA: "It does not grant citizenship, or the right to stay here permanently, or offer the same benefits that citizens receive - only Congress can do that. All we're saying is we're not going to deport you."

THE FACTS: He's saying, and doing, more than that. The changes also will make those covered eligible for work permits, allowing them to be employed in the country legally and compete with citizens and legal residents for better-paying jobs.

___

OBAMA: "Although this summer, there was a brief spike in unaccompanied children being apprehended at our border, the number of such children is now actually lower than it's been in nearly two years."

THE FACTS: The numbers certainly surged this year, but it was more than a "brief spike." The number of unaccompanied children apprehended at the border has been on the rise since the 2011 budget year. That year about 16,000 children were found crossing the border alone. In 2012, the Border Patrol reported more than 24,000 children, followed by more than 38,800 in 2013. In the last budget year, more than 68,361 children were apprehended.

___

OBAMA: "Overall, the number of people trying to cross our border illegally is at its lowest level since the 1970s. Those are the facts."

THE FACTS: Indeed, in the 2014 budget year the Border Patrol made 486,651 arrests of border crossers, among the fewest since the early 1970s. But border arrests have been on the rise since 2011.

The decline in crossings is not purely, or perhaps even primarily, due to the Obama administration. The deep economic recession early in his presidency and the shaky aftermath made the U.S. a less attractive place to come for work. The increase in arrests since 2011 also can be traced in part to the economy - as the recovery improved, more people came in search of opportunity.

___

OBAMA: "When I took office, I committed to fixing this broken immigration system. And I began by doing what I could to secure our borders."

THE FACTS: He overlooked the fact that he promised as a candidate for president in 2008 to have an immigration bill during his first year in office and move forward on it quickly. He never kept that promise to the Latino community.

 

 

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I mean, its pretty apparent he is fluffing the numbers and spinning them to fit a narrative he wanted to go with. To me it doesn't really change the issue/solutions all that much though. :dunno:

It does not really change the issue. But if there are 7-12 million illegals that don't qualify and will not be deported, then essentially no reform has been done. In fact, what has been done is dangle a carrot to those on the south side of the border. This has to be a one and one thing (if it is done at all), or else the flood gates have opened and the path to citizenship as we know it is invalid.

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This is from AOL News so I'm assuming it is but so biased.

It was ludicrous for Obama to say that he was going to address the immigration problem in Year 1. It is even more ludicrous for him to take credit for any immigration improvements that have happened since he took office because there have been no improvements.

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Something I don't understand:

 

Those who've been here for more than 5 years might qualify for the plan. Those who are recently here are not. How does he or anyone else have any way of proving one way or the other how long one has been here? According to his own words, Obama claims these people have been living in the shadows and it's unrealistic to track them down. :dunno:

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Something I don't understand:

 

Those who've been here for more than 5 years might qualify for the plan. Those who are recently here are not. How does he or anyone else have any way of proving one way or the other how long one has been here? According to his own words, Obama claims these people have been living in the shadows and it's unrealistic to track them down. :dunno:

Cut them in half and count the rings.

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Cut them in half and count the rings.

You can use my chain saw. :thumbsup:

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Something I don't understand:

 

Those who've been here for more than 5 years might qualify for the plan. Those who are recently here are not. How does he or anyone else have any way of proving one way or the other how long one has been here? According to his own words, Obama claims these people have been living in the shadows and it's unrealistic to track them down. :dunno:

I think it pretty much is going to come down to those with children can stay and the others will stay but remain illegal unless they can prove 5 years. Anchor babies pay off.

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They should announce immediate citizenship for all illegals. All you have to do is show up and register.

 

Then, have all the registrations at truck and train depots. When they show up at appointed time, herd them on to trucks and trains, and head south. But not to Mexico. Deport them two countries south of where they are from.

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They should announce immediate citizenship for all illegals. All you have to do is show up and register.

 

Then, have all the registrations at truck and train depots. When they show up at appointed time, herd them on to trucks and trains, and head south. But not to Mexico. Deport them two countries south of where they are from.

A two country penalty, I like it. :thumbsup:

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i think i'm ok with it. it adds 5 million new people to the tax roles, so now they have to pay taxes and pay for healthcare. we already paid for them in the emergency room or medicaid, so at least now 10% of them will add productivity.

 

this hits the unions smack in the mouth. cheap labor of 5 million people will bring union wages down and enrollment numbers will fall further. good.

 

he's the best republican president we've had in a long time. he loves wall street, big banks, big insurance companies, hates unions, loves cheap labor, loves war, loves drone killing, undermines the media, does whatever he wants.

 

the next real republican is set up....abortions will end, the epa regs will all be put on hold, coal will regain its hold as cheap fuel, the fuel economy rules for the auto industry will be relaxed, the pipeline will get approved, onshore and offshore drilling will be opened up, the birds and rats that hold up the economy will be set aside for economic growth, the capital gains and corporate taxes will be done away with, the war machine will ramp up to new heights, profiling for terrorism can begin so we can find them easier, add your own. man, what a gift he just provided america. we can deal with some mexicans we've already assimilated. once we get rid of him, the republican president can actually make america a power again.

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Maybe if all the welfare rangers would work..there wouldnt be jobs available for all these Ilegals. No offense, but they are some hardworking sobs who have strong family units while over 40 percent of americans who think they should all make 90 grand a year sit on their asses.

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they work hard, they don't complain and they drive safely.

i'd rather have a country filled with illegal immigrants.

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Why would an illegal come out of the shadows knowing full well that in the nearea future either Congress or a Republican president will undo it, and now they are not in the shadows? :dunno:

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Obummer is allowing illegal to collect Social Security and Medicare. These programs are supposed to be for elderly Americans and already are projected to run out of money before Gen X retires but well ... you know...

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/illegal-immigrants-could-receive-social-security-medicare-under-obama-action/2014/11/25/571caefe-74d4-11e4-bd1b-03009bd3e984_story.html?tid=hpModule_ba0d4c2a-86a2-11e2-9d71-f0feafdd1394

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Obummer is allowing illegal to collect Social Security and Medicare. These programs are supposed to be for elderly Americans and already are projected to run out of money before Gen X retires but well ... you know...

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/illegal-immigrants-could-receive-social-security-medicare-under-obama-action/2014/11/25/571caefe-74d4-11e4-bd1b-03009bd3e984_story.html?tid=hpModule_ba0d4c2a-86a2-11e2-9d71-f0feafdd1394

 

 

Why is it that Social Security is projected to "run out of money" when the people drawing SS actually pay into that system, yet welfare is never projected to run out of money despite those taking it not paying into it?

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Why is it that Social Security is projected to "run out of money" when the people drawing SS actually pay into that system, yet welfare is never projected to run out of money despite those taking it not paying into it?

Social Security uses a separate pot of money and government account whereas welfare comes from the general fund. That's why it's collected separately on it's own line in your pay stub.

 

But you're right. In he end, it's all really a bullsh*t shell game. When SS was running a surplus, it's excess was lent to the general revenue fund. For the last couple of years now, it's stopped lending money since it's been running a deficit. This'll get more and more as the Boomers retire. The SS account still owns all those T-Bills that it bought along the way when it was running surpluses. Eventually though, it'll run out of the money it lent the general fund. Which will be when Gen X retires.

 

Then the whole pretend charade about it being a separate account will be exposed.

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If a politician is telling us a number, you can expect it is a complete and utter lie and probably at least double or more.

 

Big dig will only cost will cost 2.8 billion. Actual cost 15 billion and counting :lol:

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Plain fact is that its not the legality of a person that decides their affect on sociaty, its their race+social standing. There will always be poor people, but some races just make bad poor people. Poor mexicans? Hardworking people and california among other stats would die within a week if they all dissapeared. Poor whites? Crackish, trailer trash or meandering bums but they largely dont bother others. Asians and indian? There are no poor asians or indians in the US, they are all middle class or above. Europeans? they dont count as immigrants, they just get counted as hoorary whites and are not looked at as immigrants. Poor blacks? Violent criminals who riot and pretty much ruin the country wherever they are most prevalent as they are doing now all over. not all of them of course but id say a majority.

 

These are just facts. I have no problem with illegal immigrants, they in fact make the country and without themn it would crumble. You want to wash dishes or pick grapes? didnt think so.

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I'm-a say 11,507,866. Give or take a couple

:doublethumbsup: :lol: Hilarious.

 

I can remember them telling us we have 12 million illegals in this country 20 FOCKING YEARS AGO.

 

I bet there are at least 25 million, probably a lot closer to 40 million.

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I've been thinking about this more. Probably Detroit city could use some immigrants illegal or not. This is a city that was home to 2M people in the 1950s but is down to 700K now. It's still got the size and infrastructure to accommodate 2M. Perfectly nice houses in good condition can be had for dirt cheap because nobody wants to buy them. Folks willing to work hard who don't commit crime would be welcome no matter what, that's what they need to build a community and drive up home prices.

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I've been thinking about this more. Probably Detroit city could use some immigrants illegal or not. This is a city that was home to 2M people in the 1950s but is down to 700K now. It's still got the size and infrastructure to accommodate 2M. Perfectly nice houses in good condition can be had for dirt cheap because nobody wants to buy them. Folks willing to work hard who don't commit crime would be welcome no matter what, that's what they need to build a community and drive up home prices.

Most of them would rather stay in Mexico than Detroit.

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