2015 Hall of Fame ballot...

[posty 2,296]

http://bbwaa.com/2014/11/2015-hall-of-fame-ballot/

 

Pitchers who won a combined nine Cy Young Awards and position players who earned three batting titles are among 17 new candidates on the 2015 Hall of Fame ballot that is being mailed this week to more than 575 voting members of the BBWAA.

 

Pitchers Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez and John Smoltz; infielder Nomar Garciaparra and outfielder Gary Sheffield join 17 holdovers from the 2014 balloting in which pitchers Greg Maddux and Tom Glavine and first baseman/designated hitter Frank Thomas won election to the National Baseball Hall of Fame in Cooperstown, N.Y. It marked the first time that three first-ballot nominees were elected since Nolan Ryan, George Brett and Robin Yount in 1999.

 

Candidates must be named on 75 percent of ballots cast by BBWAA members with 10 or more consecutive years of Major League Baseball coverage to gain election. In 2014, Craig Biggio missed the 75-percent qualifying point by two votes, tying Nellie Fox in 1985 and Pie Traynor in 1947 for the smallest margin in balloting history. Traynor was elected in 1948. Fox was in his last year on the ballot and was subsequently elected by the Veterans Committee in 1997.

 

This is Biggio's third time on the ballot. A rules change by the Halls board of directors going into effect this year limits players to remain on the ballot for up to 10 years provided they receive five percent of the vote. Players between 10 years and the previous time frame of 15 years have been grandfathered on the ballot: first baseman Don Mattingly (15th and final year), shortstop Alan Trammell (14th year) and relief pitcher Lee Smith (13th year).

 

Other players receiving sufficient support to remain on the BBWAA ballot for 2015 were pitchers

 

Roger Clemens, Curt Schilling and Mike Mussina; catcher Mike Piazza; first basemen Jeff Bagwell, Fred McGriff and Mark McGwire; second baseman Jeff Kent; third baseman-DH Edgar Martinez and outfielders Tim Raines, Barry Bonds, Larry Walker and Sammy Sosa.

 

Johnson won five Cy Young Awards four in the National League with the Arizona Diamondbacks and one in the American League with the Seattle Mariners during a 22-season career in which the lefthander won 303 games and totalled 4,875 strikeouts, second only to Ryan in MLB history. Johnson was co-winner of the 2001 World Series Most Valuable Player Award with D-backs teammate Schilling. Another World Series MVP outfielder Jermaine Dye for the Chicago White Sox in 2005 is also on the ballot for the first time.

 

Pedro Martinez also won Cy Young Award in both leagues two in the AL with the Boston Red Sox and one in the NL with the Montreal Expos. The righthander led his league in earned run average five times and finished his 18-season career with 3,154 strikeouts and a .687 winning percentage (219-100). He was runner-up for the 1999 AL MVP Award to Texas Rangers catcher Ivan Rodriguez and a member of the Red Sox 2004 World Series champions.

 

Smoltz was the NL Cy Young Award winner in 1996 with the Atlanta Braves for whom he spent the bulk of his 21 seasons in the majors as a rotation mate of Maddux and Glavine for clubs that won 14 division titles, five pennants and the 1995 World Series. Smoltz is the only pitcher in history with more than 200 victories (213) and 150 saves (154). He amassed a postseason record of 15-4 with a 2.67 ERA and 199 strikeouts in 209 innings.

 

Garciaparra was the unanimous choice for the 1997 AL Jackie Robinson Rookie of the Year Award and went on to win batting titles in 1999 and 2000 over a 14-season career in which he compiled a .313 batting average. He was runner-up to Texas Juan Gonzalez for the AL MVP Award in 1998, one of five times he finished in the top 10 in MVP balloting.

 

Sheffield was the NL batting champion in 1992 with the San Diego Padres, one of eight clubs the slugger played for over 22 seasons, including the 1997 World Series champion Florida Marlins. His 509 career home runs rank 25th on the all-time list. With the New York Yankees in 2004, Sheffield finished second in the MVP voting to the Anaheim Angels Vladimir Guerrero, one of six top-10 MVP placements for Sheffield, who drove in more than 100 runs eight times.

 

Carlos Delgado, who totalled 473 home runs among his 2,038 career hits, is also on the ballot for the first time along with fellow first baseman Tony Clark; outfielder-first baseman Darin Erstad; pitchers Tom Gordon, Eddie Guardado, Troy Percival and Jason Schmidt; infielders Rich Aurilia and Aaron Boone and outfielders Cliff Floyd and Brian Giles.

 

Writers must return ballots by a Dec. 27 postmark. Votes are counted jointly by BBWAA secretary-treasurer Jack OConnell and Ernst & Young partner Michael DiLecce. Results will be announced at 2 p.m. Tuesday, Jan. 6, 2015, on MLB Network.

 

===

 

Rich Aurilia

Jeff Bagwell

Craig Biggio

Barry Bonds

Aaron Boone

Tony Clark

Roger Clemens

Carlos Delgado

Jermaine Dye

Darin Erstad

Cliff Floyd

Nomar Garciaparra

Brian Giles

Tom Gordon

Eddie Guardado

Randy Johnson

Jeff Kent

Edgar Martinez

Pedro Martinez

Don Mattingly

Fred McGriff

Mark McGwire

Mike Mussina

Troy Percival

Mike Piazza

Tim Raines

Curt Schilling

Jason Schmidt

Gary Sheffield

Lee Smith

John Smoltz

Sammy Sosa

Alan Trammell

Larry Walker

[posty 2,296]

If I had a ballot, I would vote for:

 

Jeff Bagwell

Craig Biggio

Barry Bonds

Roger Clemens

Randy Johnson

Pedro Martinez

Mike Piazza

John Smoltz

[Mike Honcho 4,027]

If I had a ballot, I would vote for:

 

Jeff Bagwell

Craig Biggio

Barry Bonds

Roger Clemens

Randy Johnson

Pedro Martinez

Mike Piazza

John Smoltz

Alan Trammell

Tim Raines

 

Is your list up to date, I thought Jack Morris was out last year?

[DankNuggs 305]

Eddie Guardado and Pete Rose

[posty 2,296]

Is your list up to date, I thought Jack Morris was out last year?

Oops, you are correct...

[Cruzer 1,992]

Smoltz

R. Johnson

P. Martinez

M. Piazza

T. Raines

C. Biggio

[edjr 5,562]

Love you clowns picking Piazza and Biggio, thinking you know they were clean. comical.

 

Seems to me there are 3 that will definitely get in this year and no one else will.

 

Pedro, Big Unit and Smoltzy

[Mike Honcho 4,027]

Love you clowns picking Piazza and Biggio, thinking you know they were clean. comical.

 

Seems to me there are 3 that will definitely get in this year and no one else will.

 

Pedro, Big Unit and Smoltzy

 

Nobody said they "KNOW" anything, but we do know who most definitely did roids.

 

[edjr 5,562]

 

Nobody said they "KNOW" anything, but we do know who most definitely did roids.

 

 

Sure you do.

[kilroy69 994]

 

Thomas

Smoltz

R. Johnson

P. Martinez

C. Biggio

[Mike Honcho 4,027]

 

Sure you do.

 

Bonds - check

Clemons - check

Arod - Check

Mitchell report names - yup.

 

yeah, I got a handle on it. You are the one who wants to paint everyone with the broad brush, so be it. If I know a guy cheated, I don't think he belongs in the HOF. You on the other hand thinks it's okay to cheat, as long as you feel a significant portion of the population is also cheating. That's just not how I roll.

[edjr 5,562]

 

Bonds - check

Clemons - check

Arod - Check

Mitchell report names - yup.

 

yeah, I got a handle on it.

 

 

yeah, those are the only ones

 

yeah, you have a handle on it.

 

[Mike Honcho 4,027]

 

Nobody said they "KNOW" anything, but we do know who most definitely did roids.

 

 

 

 

yeah, those are the only ones

 

yeah, you have a handle on it.

 

 

What do you not get? I said I won't support the guys KNOWN to have done steroids...did I say that others did it and didn't get caught...nope?

 

Try to get a handle on English Ed.

[edjr 5,562]

 

 

What do you not get? I said I won't support the guys KNOWN to have done steroids...did I say that others did it and didn't get caught...nope?

 

Try to get a handle on English Ed.

 

Take your head out of the sand and stop being a lazy hypocrite

[KSB2424 3,083]

Most of the only ones who were "known" to do roids were the uber big name guys because they get all the publicity and scrutinty. So what you'll be left with is a bunch of middle teir and marginal HOF's to vote for. In other words they were good, just not good enough for people to care if they did roids or not.

[Mike Honcho 4,027]

 

Take your head out of the sand and stop being a lazy hypocrite

 

You got proof, failed drug test, admission of inadvertent usage, used syringes used to dope the player...nope, you have innuendo. Need a little more than that. Don't get mad because you justify it as okay cause "everyone" was doing it and some people have a little more of a defined moral compass.

[edjr 5,562]

 

You got proof, failed drug test, admission of inadvertent usage, used syringes used to dope the player...nope, you have innuendo. Need a little more than that. Don't get mad because you justify it as okay cause "everyone" was doing it and some people have a little more of a defined moral compass.

 

Out of the thousands that played MLB from 1996 through 2010, only those in the Mitchell report and the high profile players you mentioned did it. Solid logic.

[Mike Honcho 4,027]

 

 

What do you not get? I said I won't support the guys KNOWN to have done steroids...did I say that others did it and didn't get caught...nope?

 

Try to get a handle on English Ed.

 

 

Out of the thousands that played MLB from 1996 through 2010, only those in the Mitchell report and the high profile players you mentioned did it. Solid logic.

 

 

Seriously, I know you're not this stupid. Never said others didn't do it Ed, and I've aalready said exactly that. You are being purposely obtuse now. So one more time, I don't believe players who we KNOW to have done steroids should be allowed in the HOF. Until you can wrap your head around that fact---I think we are done. Thanks

[KSB2424 3,083]

 

Out of the thousands that played MLB from 1996 through 2010, only those in the Mitchell report and the high profile players you mentioned did it. Solid logic.

 

Of course not but what do we do, whats the solution to the Hall of Fame? The "Steroid Era" focked it all up, thats for sure but we have to find a way to go forward. There are two options:

 

1. The Mike Honcho way, which is the way the writers are currently going. Those that have failed a test or admitted to steroids are out. Wait, thats not all right actually as the Mitchell report can have names but neither of what I just said. So, let me amend that. Any player that has failed a drug test, admitted to using, or we have decent to good proof. Anyone else can be voted in, even though its pretty common sense to know alot of those guys used too.

 

OR

 

2. The Hall of Fame is a museum showcasing the best players as well as telling the history of baseball. To act like those players never existed and to pretend we know all who "cheated" is naive. We vote all those deserving by their play on the field to be in the HOF while also telling the story and history of the Steroid Era. The fans can put their own askerisks up where they want in the court of public opinion.

 

Like I said, its sort of focked up either way but number two makes the most sense to me.

[edjr 5,562]

 

Of course not but what do we do, whats the solution to the Hall of Fame?

 

Vote on their numbers only.

 

Just like how it's always been voted on.

 

Completely unfair to keep those in the Mitchell report out, when we know for a FACT there are hundreds more that did it.

[Mike Honcho 4,027]

 

Vote on their numbers only.

 

Just like how it's always been voted on.

 

Completely unfair to keep those in the Mitchell report out, when we know for a FACT there are hundreds more that did it.

 

So I don't know, but you do know....

 

And yes Ed, it's completely fair to keep people who used illegal drugs out of the HOF...both for using PED's(banned since 1991) and for the character issue. Geez, did you ever have a moral compass?

 

 

Of course not but what do we do, whats the solution to the Hall of Fame? The "Steroid Era" focked it all up, thats for sure but we have to find a way to go forward. There are two options:

 

1. The Mike Honcho way, which is the way the writers are currently going. Those that have failed a test or admitted to steroids are out. Wait, thats not all right actually as the Mitchell report can have names but neither of what I just said. So, let me amend that. Any player that has failed a drug test, admitted to using, or we have decent to good proof. Anyone else can be voted in, even though its pretty common sense to know alot of those guys used too.

 

OR

 

2. The Hall of Fame is a museum showcasing the best players as well as telling the history of baseball. To act like those players never existed and to pretend we know all who "cheated" is naive. We vote all those deserving by their play on the field to be in the HOF while also telling the story and history of the Steroid Era. The fans can put their own askerisks up where they want in the court of public opinion.

 

Like I said, its sort of focked up either way but number two makes the most sense to me.

 

This is pretty much how I feel about it. One codicil---i don't believe steroid use was nearly as wide spread as people(Edjr) would have you believe. 87 names have been leaked from MItchell. The steroid test had a 14% failure rate Most of the evidence supports a usage amount in the, 20% to 25% range. It wasn't 50% - 70% like Canseco says.

 

ETA: As androstenedione is a steroid, though legal during the 90's, if people want to keep Bagwell out of the HOF because of it, I wouldn't hold it against them. His usage of it has me on the fence. It's a steroids...it was legal, I go back and forth on that one.

[Voltaire 4,558]

 

 

yeah, those are the only ones

 

yeah, you have a handle on it.

 

We don't know any more than you. We just give a sh*t about it more than you.

[Mile High Drunk 13]

Jeff Bagwell
Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Don Mattingly
Mike Piazza
John Smoltz

[Voltaire 4,558]

Bagwell

Biggio

Johnson

Martinez

Piazza

Raines

Schilling

Smoltz

Trammell

[JT 137]

Pete Rose and Joe Jackson

 

Give them their long overdue recognition and get to the rest next year. There are none deserving of going in on the same ballot as those two.

[edjr 5,562]

Bagwell - Steroids

Biggio - Steroids

Johnson

Martinez

Piazza - Steroids

Raines - Cocaine (admitted)

Schilling

Smoltz

Trammell

 

Solid list

[edjr 5,562]

We don't know any more than you. We just give a sh*t about it more than you.

 

That's a complete lie. You care more than me? So much so you left the country. You have no say

 

I want the best players of my generation in the HOF,.

[Cruzer 1,992]

Pete Rose and Joe Jackson

 

Give them their long overdue recognition and get to the rest next year. There are none deserving of going in on the same ballot as those two.

I'd be willing to strike a deal for my imaginary vote. Let these two (most deserving) in and I'll lay down my prejudice against the Bonds and Clemens of the world.

[JT 137]

I'd be willing to strike a deal for my imaginary vote. Let these two (most deserving) in and I'll lay down my prejudice against the Bonds and Clemens of the world.

 

I don't have an issue with those guys either. Baseball made it's bed, let them glorify their accomplishment. At least those two established themselves as elite players pre-roids.

 

But to continue to keep Rose and Jackson out makes the whole thing a joke.

[edjr 5,562]

 

I don't have an issue with those guys either. Baseball made it's bed, let them glorify their accomplishment. At least those two established themselves as elite players pre-roids.

 

But to continue to keep Rose and Jackson out makes the whole thing a joke.

 

 

Should change the name to Hall of Hypocrites.

[KSB2424 3,083]

 

So I don't know, but you do know....

 

And yes Ed, it's completely fair to keep people who used illegal drugs out of the HOF...both for using PED's(banned since 1991) and for the character issue. Geez, did you ever have a moral compass?

 

 

This is pretty much how I feel about it. One codicil---i don't believe steroid use was nearly as wide spread as people(Edjr) would have you believe. 87 names have been leaked from MItchell. The steroid test had a 14% failure rate Most of the evidence supports a usage amount in the, 20% to 25% range. It wasn't 50% - 70% like Canseco says.

 

ETA: As androstenedione is a steroid, though legal during the 90's, if people want to keep Bagwell out of the HOF because of it, I wouldn't hold it against them. His usage of it has me on the fence. It's a steroids...it was legal, I go back and forth on that one.

 

I get it, and understand. It's all focked up no matter which way so your way (and the current writers) is understandable. I just like and think the other option (#2) is better. What you're doing is sort of acting as if the Steriod Era never existed and all those players neve existed. It also is admittedly letting in guys who prolly used too, we just didn't care to look into it as their name wasn't big enough.

'

I think eventually we'll see them vote in all people deserving. Maybe they put a 'Played in Steroid Era' notation on their plaque or something, but you can't just pretend it never happened.

[edjr 5,562]

 

I get it, and understand. It's all focked up no matter which way so your way (and the current writers) is understandable. I just like and think the other option (#2) is better. What you're doing is sort of acting as if the Steriod Era never existed and all those players neve existed. It also is admittedly letting in guys who prolly used too, we just didn't care to look into it as their name wasn't big enough.

'

I think eventually we'll see them vote in all people deserving. Maybe they put a 'Played in Steroid Era' notation on their plaque or something, but you can't just pretend it never happened.

 

[Mike Honcho 4,027]

 

I get it, and understand. It's all focked up no matter which way so your way (and the current writers) is understandable. I just like and think the other option (#2) is better. What you're doing is sort of acting as if the Steriod Era never existed and all those players neve existed. It also is admittedly letting in guys who prolly used too, we just didn't care to look into it as their name wasn't big enough.

'

I think eventually we'll see them vote in all people deserving. Maybe they put a 'Played in Steroid Era' notation on their plaque or something, but you can't just pretend it never happened.

 

I'm am most definitely not acting like the era didn't exist, era existed and those players cheated. They weighed the options and decided to cheat to gain an advantage over other players for financial gain. Can't change that, but in no way should they be rewarded as the Best of the Best when they needed to cheat to do so. It seems you are more willing to pretend it didn't happen...welcome to the HOF, here's an asterisk. I'm part of the group who doesn't want to pretend it didn't happen, part of the group who feels you should exclude the guys who have been shown to have cheated.

 

Also, any player who has HOF credentials doesn't have a name big enough to be investigated, cmon dude.

[KSB2424 3,083]

 

Also, any player who has HOF credentials doesn't have a name big enough to be investigated, cmon dude.

 

Investigated? I don't think so. Not like they turned over every nook and cranny for the big boys going after records. After the Mitchell Report came out and guys like Wally Joyner were on it that opened my eyes. It wasn't just the big headed muscle guys using PED's. They were used to get over injuries more than anyting. Wally Joyner was a pipsqueek nerdy looking dude who hit for average, and he used. If Wally Joyner did, a Greg Maddux and <insertanybody> could have too. PED pitchers were pitching to PED hitters whose line drives were caught by PED center fielders. At that point I just raised my hands and said the whole era is tainted and stopped pretending like we could actually figure it out.

 

[edjr 5,562]

 

Investigated? I don't think so. Not like they turned over every nook and cranny for the big boys going after records. After the Mitchell Report came out and guys like Wally Joyner were on it that opened my eyes. It wasn't just the big headed muscle guys using PED's. They were used to get over injuries more than anyting. Wally Joyner was a pipsqueek nerdy looking dude who hit for average, and he used. If Wally Joyner did, a Greg Maddux and <insertanybody> could have too. PED pitchers were pitching to PED hitters whose line drives were caught by PED center fielders. At that point I just raised my hands and said the whole era is tainted and stopped pretending like we could actually figure it out.

 

 

I knew someone would come in here and articulate what I was saying without me having to type it.

Thank you KSB

[Mike Honcho 4,027]

 

Investigated? I don't think so. Not like they turned over every nook and cranny for the big boys going after records. After the Mitchell Report came out and guys like Wally Joyner were on it that opened my eyes. It wasn't just the big headed muscle guys using PED's. They were used to get over injuries more than anyting. Wally Joyner was a pipsqueek nerdy looking dude who hit for average, and he used. If Wally Joyner did, a Greg Maddux and <insertanybody> could have too. PED pitchers were pitching to PED hitters whose line drives were caught by PED center fielders. At that point I just raised my hands and said the whole era is tainted and stopped pretending like we could actually figure it out.

 

 

And so you are basically just throwing up your arms and pretending it didn't happen. Don't lump me in that group. Thanks

 

I'm done and I'm fine with my position. You guys want to say.."hey, if a bunch of guys are criminals...we should pretend everyone is...so it's all right", sorry , I don't think that's right and can't even comprehend how anyone would justify it.

[edjr 5,562]

 

And so you are basically just throwing up your arms and pretending it didn't happen. Don't lump me in that group. Thanks

 

I'm done and I'm fine with my position. You guys want to say.."hey, if a bunch of guys are criminals...we should pretend everyone is...so it's all right", sorry , I don't think that's right and can't even comprehend how anyone would justify it.

 

[JT 137]

 

I'm am most definitely not acting like the era didn't exist, era existed and those players cheated. They weighed the options and decided to cheat to gain an advantage over other players for financial gain. Can't change that, but in no way should they be rewarded as the Best of the Best when they needed to cheat to do so. It seems you are more willing to pretend it didn't happen...welcome to the HOF, here's an asterisk. I'm part of the group who doesn't want to pretend it didn't happen, part of the group who feels you should exclude the guys who have been shown to have cheated.

 

Also, any player who has HOF credentials doesn't have a name big enough to be investigated, cmon dude.

 

I absolutely understand your stance, but as much as you believe that accepting any of those guys is turning a blind eye to the era, one could argue that believing that they were the only ones and rewarding better/more under the radar cheaters is doing the same.

 

When MLB was promoting McGwire and Sosa with grotesque balloon armed cartoons, only a fool thought that it was due to anything but roids. When I look at Bagwell, I see the same guy, one whose power stats inflated (along with his Popeye forearms) during the same years. And Bagwell is just the kind of guy: small market, limited post-season exposure, never a media darling: who could fly under the radar of that kind of inquisition.

 

Like it or not (and there's nothing to like about it), the era happened. It's less logical to believe that those were the only guys using than that it was widespread; and being the biggest names (which get you called in front of Congress) shouldn't be the criteria that keeps a guy out.

[edjr 5,562]

 

I absolutely understand your stance, but as much as you believe that accepting any of those guys is turning a blind eye to the era, one could argue that believing that they were the only ones and rewarding better/more under the radar cheaters is doing the same.

 

When MLB was promoting McGwire and Sosa with grotesque balloon armed cartoons, only a fool thought that it was due to anything but roids. When I look at Bagwell, I see the same guy, one whose power stats inflated (along with his Popeye forearms) during the same years. And Bagwell is just the kind of guy: small market, limited post-season exposure, never a media darling: who could fly under the radar of that kind of inquisition.

 

Like it or not (and there's nothing to like about it), the era happened. It's less logical to believe that those were the only guys using than that it was widespread; and being the biggest names (which get you called in front of Congress) shouldn't be the criteria that keeps a guy out.

 

 

[tanatastic 2,061]

Barry is the best ever, you idiots are crazy.