Interesting Castle Doctrine case

[parrot 789]

Charging document: Missoula man waited up to shoot 'kid'

 

http://missoulian.com/news/local/charging-document-missoula-man-waited-up-to-shoot-kid/article_f7551102-cf0e-11e3-9619-001a4bcf887a.html

 

Synopsis: Homeowner had had their garage broken into twice in recent weeks. They set up motion sensors and a video baby monitor in the garage. Then they purposely left the garage door open and left a purse to be taken. 12:30 a couple nights later, the sensors go off and the video shows a male in the garage. The homeowner grabs a shotgun and circles around the front of the garage. The garage is completely dark by his own admission. He claims he didn't say anything, but according to his wife he said "hey" or something like that, and the person in the garage also said "hey" or "wait" back. The homeowner fires the shotgun four times into the garage, killing a seventeen year old. He says he heard "metal on metal" and feared for his life, but also admits he didn't want the burglar to get away. He also says he aimed high because he didn't want to hit the cars in the garage. A strange consideration if you're in fear for your life. Also told a hairdresser days before the shooting that he was tired because he had been staying up late "waiting to shoot some f*cking kid". The homeowner has been charged with deliberate homicide.

 

The baiting aspect of it has a lot of people up in arms. But obviously, just because a garage door is open, that doesn't mean you walk into it and take what you want. Getting you ass shot for it is a little rough though. I'm a little torn. I get that the kid should not have been in there, but I don't know that the homeowner needed to engage him like he did, sweeping buckshot across the garage with no real indication of whether the kid presented a real threat to him or not. I'm a gun rights guy, but I feel like they were right in charging him. Guns come with responsibility.

[Vikings4ever 496]

We've got our own such case here in Minnesota going on.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byron_David_Smith_killings

 

Essentially, two teens break into the guy's house (after the guy had been repeatedly burglarized), the first teen starts to come down to the basement (where he is), he shoots him in the chest, then puts a shot to his head. The second teen comes looking for the first teen, gets the same thing.

[Drizzay 645]

The guy better do a fantastic job proving that he feared for his life. The case hinges on that aspect. If hearing "metal on metal" is enough, the jury will acquit.

 

I would hate to be on that jury.

[parrot 789]

We've got our own such case here in Minnesota going on.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byron_David_Smith_killings

 

Essentially, two teens break into the guy's house (after the guy had been repeatedly burglarized), the first teen starts to come down to the basement (where he is), he shoots him in the chest, then puts a shot to his head. The second teen comes looking for the first teen, gets the same thing.

 

 

I think we had a thread on that case before.

[5-Points 2,729]

This guy should be charged. I have no sympathy for thieves who get themselves killed but this is different. He purposely left his garage open as bait. It doesn't appear as though his life was in danger so the decision to shoot was not justified in my opinion.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

He staged a setup. The castle doctrine holds that you are not required to retreat from your home, not that you can set traps.

 

This is no different than previously held case law prohibiting setting up traps, like spring loaded guns and such.

 

He should be charged and convicted of first degree murder.

[patweisers44 697]

There have been a bunch of these homeowner shooting intruder cases in Detroit in the last few months. Obviously not the same circumstances as the above case but what i find interesting is that the new Chief of Police in Detroit is actually advocating all citizens do the same thing to protect themselves.

[parrot 789]

He staged a setup. The castle doctrine holds that you are not required to retreat from your home, not that you can set traps.

 

This is no different than previously held case law prohibiting setting up traps, like spring loaded guns and such.

 

He should be charged and convicted of first degree murder.

 

Come on now. I agree with him being charged, but you have every right to leave your garage door open, and it's worlds different than something like a spring-loaded gun, which is completely indiscriminate.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

It isn't just leaving the door open. He set up monitoring equipment. He told someone he was waiting up to shoot some punk kid. He then, by his own words, fired five times with no warning, but made sure to aim so he didn't hit his car.

 

Murder = unlawful killing of another human being with malice a aforethought. He planned it. He intended to do it. Open and shut case.

[Mookz 1,287]

Gossipy hairdressers

[crackattack 513]

It isn't just leaving the door open. He set up monitoring equipment. He told someone he was waiting up to shoot some punk kid. He then, by his own words, fired five times with no warning, but made sure to aim so he didn't hit his car.

 

Murder = unlawful killing of another human being with malice a aforethought. He planned it. He intended to do it. Open and shut case.

This.

[Googballz 39]

Its a good thing for MDC this isn't the guy he stole the Ray Bans from.

[5-Points 2,729]

There have been a bunch of these homeowner shooting intruder cases in Detroit in the last few months. Obviously not the same circumstances as the above case but what i find interesting is that the new Chief of Police in Detroit is actually advocating all citizens do the same thing to protect themselves.

I have a feeling burglaries will be down in Detroit as a result.

[DankNuggs 305]

I have a feeling burglaries will be down in Detroit as a result.

They are down alot year over year... Just heard about it on the radio

[KSB2424 3,083]

We've got our own such case here in Minnesota going on.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byron_David_Smith_killings

 

Essentially, two teens break into the guy's house (after the guy had been repeatedly burglarized), the first teen starts to come down to the basement (where he is), he shoots him in the chest, then puts a shot to his head. The second teen comes looking for the first teen, gets the same thing.

 

That's alot different in my opinion. They are coming into his actual house where he is at and it wasn't a set up.

[KSB2424 3,083]

This guy should be charged. I have no sympathy for thieves who get themselves killed but this is different. He purposely left his garage open as bait. It doesn't appear as though his life was in danger so the decision to shoot was not justified in my opinion.

 

Agreed

[penultimatestraw 473]

Gossipy hairdressers

I'm sure this is clever, but I don't get it.

 

As for the case, the guy is a murderer. His actions are indefensible.

[KSB2424 3,083]

What the guy should'v done if he actually feared for his life and it wasn't a set up.

 

Grab your gun and sit in the kitchen to where the garage door into the house is while watching the monitor and call the cops telling them to come ASAP as there is theif in your garage. If the person enters your home then you are justified to shoot imo.

 

But this guy was bragging he was gonnaa shoot somebody. Purposely set it up, etc. Then walked around to the front looking to shoot somebody? Just not warranted.

[DankNuggs 305]

What the guy should'v done if he actually feared for his life and it wasn't a set up.

 

Grab your gun and sit in the kitchen to where the garage door into the house is while watching the monitor and call the cops telling them to come ASAP as there is theif in your garage. If the person enters your home then you are justified to shoot imo.

 

But this guy was bragging he was gonnaa shoot somebody. Purposely set it up, etc. Then walked around to the front looking to shoot somebody? Just not warranted.

Yep...

[parrot 789]

What the guy should'v done if he actually feared for his life and it wasn't a set up.

 

Grab your gun and sit in the kitchen to where the garage door into the house is while watching the monitor and call the cops telling them to come ASAP as there is theif in your garage. If the person enters your home then you are justified to shoot imo.

 

But this guy was bragging he was gonnaa shoot somebody. Purposely set it up, etc. Then walked around to the front looking to shoot somebody? Just not warranted.

 

Even if he had gone out and attempted to apprehend the guy I could kind of see it. Not the best idea, but I get where they were pretty fed up having their garage broken into. But it seems like he went out with every intention of shooting someone.

[parrot 789]

 

That's alot different in my opinion. They are coming into his actual house where he is at and it wasn't a set up.

 

The problem is that guy executed one of them with a head shot.

[DankNuggs 305]

It does create a difficult dilemna for the home owner.... They have to identify themselves and attempt to peacefully end the situation and only after it is established that their life is in danger can they defend themselves...

 

It takes a split second for an armed burgler to turn that situation hostile. The home owner has to go through several steps to establish the ability to defend themselves.

 

In this situation it is dark and while the burgler can likely see the silouette of the homeowner looking out, the homeowner can't see in... Couple that with the above mentioned protocols to establish defense and the burgler has a HUGE advantage.

 

 

Now I think this guy is a murderer who had every intention to create a situation where he could execute someone.

[Sho Nuff 719]

This guy should be charged. I have no sympathy for thieves who get themselves killed but this is different. He purposely left his garage open as bait. It doesn't appear as though his life was in danger so the decision to shoot was not justified in my opinion.

 

He set the trap...and by comments in some article...he allegedly stated he wanted to shoot some kid or was going to shoot some kid.

 

Had the guy cornered and just blasted without really knowing a thing it appears.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

How do we know the German kid wasn't some sort of terrorist?

[Bert 1,091]

I think the home owner screwed himself but the thief got what he deserved.

[BunnysBastatrds 1,914]

There was a story here a few years back about a guy's truck that kept getting broken into. He decides he's had enough and puts his rattle snake in it evry night before he locks up. One night his alwrm goes off and whoever was trying to break in got spooked and ran off. When the cops show up he tells him about the snake so they don't get bit. They told him to remove it and don't do it again or he'd go to jail for setting a trap.

 

How sympathy would you have if the burgular got bit?

[Googballz 39]

The problem is that guy executed one of them with a head shot.

 

The dude's head shouldn't have been in the guy's house. IMO once you break into someone's home you deserve whatever happens.

[5-Points 2,729]

once you break into someone's home you deserve whatever happens.

Absolutely.

[kilroy69 994]

I agree. what gives you the right to steal from someone? did you work for that property you are taking? How could the guy know how many more people were in the house. How many had guns of their own? double tapping an intruder should get praise for being thourough not arrested.

[drobeski 3,061]

I am pretty busy with some design reviews and havent had a chance to read this, but i do want to make it known that there is no doubt that the tea baggers, nra , rush and mainly fox news are to blame for this, oh and sarah palin too and im outraged also even

[drobeski 3,061]

Kid was probably looking to steal his ray bans

[penultimatestraw 473]

I think the home owner screwed himself but the thief got what he deserved.

Don't tell MDC.

[Sho Nuff 719]

I am pretty busy with some design reviews and havent had a chance to read this, but i do want to make it known that there is no doubt that the tea baggers, nra , rush and mainly fox news are to blame for this, oh and sarah palin too and im outraged also even

 

No...the kid is first to blame...then blood hungry home owner himself is to blame for it...but not shocking you would try to make it political.

[IGotWorms 3,313]

Murder 1, throw him away for life

[penultimatestraw 473]

 

No...the kid is first to blame...then blood hungry home owner himself is to blame for it...but not shocking you would try to make it political.

Funny, when MDC did this in another thread, he was spot on in his predictions for the right-wing pundits. I wonder if he really didn't read the thread?

[drobeski 3,061]

really, I didn't but if someone so poor and desperate they need to steal ray bans said something about conservatives I will take it as a win

[parrot 789]

Convicted.

 

http://www.krtv.com/news/kaarma-found-guilty-in-murder-of-german-teen/

[IGotWorms 3,313]

Convicted.

 

http://www.krtv.com/news/kaarma-found-guilty-in-murder-of-german-teen/

[MDC 5,890]

Some of you guys should set traps in your heads for when I break in and live there RMFF.

[Mookz 1,287]

Convicted.

 

http://www.krtv.com/news/kaarma-found-guilty-in-murder-of-german-teen/

 

Hardly instant.