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#1 Cruzer

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 09:50 AM

The Good: We won - well that and (at least for a week) we can put all the stupid ass Dez/sideline talk to bed.

 

The Bad: Our defense - specifically our run defense. I understand we are playing with back ups of back ups - but good Gawd we can't stop anybody.

 

The Ugly: Our running game - it is flat out horrible. Murray 31 yards on 4 carries (27 of that on 1 run), Randle 3 yards on 1 carry, Dunbar -6 yards on 3 carries. Romo aired it out 51 times y-day - that isn't going to get it done.

 

 

It's out there and prolly not a very popular idea - but I think JeRah should consider trading Dez. He's signed thru 2014 - if you move him after this year you at least get something for him, and we need all the draft picks we can get. If you keep him you resign him to a giant ass contract - and would he really be worth it? We have him now, how close are we to a SB? Uh, not very. And like I've said before - we can win and move the ball with the likes of Harris, Beasley, and Wiliams. We need offensive guards, an offensive tackle, defensive tackles, defensive ends, and secondary help way more than we need a flashy wr.



#2 The Next Generation

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 09:51 AM

....and talk....and talk...they don't never shut up!


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#3 p.man

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 10:27 AM

....and talk....and talk...they don't never shut up!

:first:

 

I have always been a Jets and Dallas fan and it is perfectly clear to say that the Cowboys defense is in a shambles. That is an understatement.

Will they make the playoffs? Probably yes because of their division. I would still worry about the Skins winning the division and yes the Giants too because they're getting healthy and are known to make late season runs. A.Brown back and their o-line playing better should make their offense a lot better. The Giants defense hasn't let up a Td in the last 11 qtr's. 

 

Trade Dez? No!!! You need a top receiver to keep the defense from going all out to stop the run.  

 

That is what the Jets are lacking...A TOP WR. They have the defense, but not the receiver. If Dallas had an above avg defense,they would probably be 7-2 right now. If the Jets defense keeps playing like they did yesterday and they had traded for a wr like J.Gordon, they would be a team to worry about for the other AFC teams. If ya think about it, the jets are really without any other top skill players and Geno is holding his own and making plays. Please Jets, give Geno a top wr to throw to. Sorry, I forgot...This is a thread for Cowboys talk.  :)



#4 Upper Class Trash

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 10:59 AM

Dallas has some tough decisions to make after the season.  If you are going to trade someone, trade the bloated contracted of Ware.  A contending team would take him.  They are projected to be $31 million OVER the cap at the end of the season.  How do they get under that?  Probably the typical Jerry Jones way...  They'll restructure every contract on the team again and push off the rebuilding for another season, all the while ruining the team they have now.  They need a corner to pair with Carr, a solid run stuffing Safety, and the offensive line is horrible outside of Left Tackle.  You don't need to look any further than the drafts under JJ to see what the problem is. 

 

Trade some of the aging players and quit re-signing average players to huge contracts.  That would benefit them in a huge way.  I still don't see them winning, or getting to, the Superbowl with Jones as the GM.  Won't happen.  Every year he believes they are only "one player away" from going to the show.  No...  They are several players away.



#5 R8RMick

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 11:08 AM

Am I the only one who feels the best way to protect a bad defense is to have a running game which will keep it off the field? 

 

By the way lol, at the Cowboy watching House party here in Arlington yesterday we were all getting hammered and placing bets on whether we'd see Antonio or not. For those unaware, Antonio is the Romo alter ego which pops up at the most inopportune times. His timing is not unlike the Rally Monkey in Anaheim, and he transpires an otherwise spectacular NFL quarterback into Bubby Brister in the clutch.   

 

 

 

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#6 Cruzer

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 11:13 AM

Dallas has some tough decisions to make after the season.  If you are going to trade someone, trade the bloated contracted of Ware.  A contending team would take him.  They are projected to be $31 million OVER the cap at the end of the season.  How do they get under that?  Probably the typical Jerry Jones way...  They'll restructure every contract on the team again and push off the rebuilding for another season, all the while ruining the team they have now.  They need a corner to pair with Carr, a solid run stuffing Safety, and the offensive line is horrible outside of Left Tackle.  You don't need to look any further than the drafts under JJ to see what the problem is. 

 

Trade some of the aging players and quit re-signing average players to huge contracts.  That would benefit them in a huge way.  I still don't see them winning, or getting to, the Superbowl with Jones as the GM.  Won't happen.  Every year he believes they are only "one player away" from going to the show.  No...  They are several players away.

I've been preaching this for a few years now. Jerry is brutally stupid when it comes to resigning or extending long term contracts to guys past their primes, players who careered for one year, and players well into their 30's. M. Austin and Ratliff were two gigantic fock ups - both will cost this team dearly down the road. Hell Ratliff's bill comes due next year - almost $7m in dead money will be hitting the books. Far as Ware - good luck finding somebody to take that 800 lbs. contract on. He's signed thru 2017 - but the following years he is scheduled to have cap hits of $16m, $17.5m. $14m, and $14m respectively - there's no way in hell any team would trade for that, especially considering Ware will be 32 years old next year.



#7 Cruzer

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 11:15 AM

Am I the only one who feels the best way to protect a bad defense is to have a running game which will keep it off the field? 

 

I'm not going to say it's the best way - but it would be a damn good start. Problem is Jerry thinks he can sign undrafed FA's and guys off the couch to play offensive line. He did invest in Fredrick and Smith - and both of those are pretty solid. I hope he continues to go down that path and rebuild the team thru both the offensive and denfensive lines....... Unfortunately I think he will focus all his time and resources trying to get Dez resigned.



#8 p.man

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 12:04 PM

Cruzer, I do understand your thinking on trading Dez. Why sacrifice the team as a whole for a receivers contract when you can receive more players through draft picks received by trading Dez away. It does make sense because there are so many other position players who are needed to stop the bleeding on defense and a few holes on the offensive line..

 

Now, let's go back in time...When Dallas made the transition from T.Landry to J.Johnson, wasn't it Jimmy who decided on what player to take at the draft?

Please correct me if I am wrong on that....To me, that is where it all starts. Great scouting.. You must draft well in order to prosper in the NFL and I believe it was Jimmy who was a great judgement of college player talent. Jerry Reese with the Giants is a good college player evaluater and he won 2 Championships.

Same as with Baseball. You need great scouts because that is where it all starts....

 

Just like all of the picks the Cowboys received from the Vikings for H.Walker. The moral is...Use those Draft Picks Wisely...  



#9 edjr

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 12:06 PM

....and talk....and talk...they don't never shut up!

 

they don't never shut up, means they actually do shut up.


posty


#10 Little Rusty

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 12:21 PM

....and talk....and talk...they don't never shut up!

 

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#11 Little Rusty

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 12:23 PM

 

they don't never shut up, means they actually do shut up.

 

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#12 Little Rusty

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 12:27 PM

The Good: We won - well that and (at least for a week) we can put all the stupid ass Dez/sideline talk to bed.

 

The Bad: Our defense - specifically our run defense. I understand we are playing with back ups of back ups - but good Gawd we can't stop anybody.

 

The Ugly: Our running game - it is flat out horrible. Murray 31 yards on 4 carries (27 of that on 1 run), Randle 3 yards on 1 carry, Dunbar -6 yards on 3 carries. Romo aired it out 51 times y-day - that isn't going to get it done.

 

 

It's out there and prolly not a very popular idea - but I think JeRah should consider trading Dez. He's signed thru 2014 - if you move him after this year you at least get something for him, and we need all the draft picks we can get. If you keep him you resign him to a giant ass contract - and would he really be worth it? We have him now, how close are we to a SB? Uh, not very. And like I've said before - we can win and move the ball with the likes of Harris, Beasley, and Wiliams. We need offensive guards, an offensive tackle, defensive tackles, defensive ends, and secondary help way more than we need a flashy wr.

 

Hey, for a team that's currently held together with duct tape, I'll take the win. :thumbsup:

 

 

 

But yeah......the Defense is a..............TrainWreck1.gif


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#13 The Next Generation

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 12:58 PM

 

they don't never shut up, means they actually do shut up.

 

I could care less :unsure: :wave:


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#14 Cruzer

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 03:58 PM

Cruzer, I do understand your thinking on trading Dez. Why sacrifice the team as a whole for a receivers contract when you can receive more players through draft picks received by trading Dez away. It does make sense because there are so many other position players who are needed to stop the bleeding on defense and a few holes on the offensive line..

 

Now, let's go back in time...When Dallas made the transition from T.Landry to J.Johnson, wasn't it Jimmy who decided on what player to take at the draft?

Please correct me if I am wrong on that....To me, that is where it all starts. Great scouting.. You must draft well in order to prosper in the NFL and I believe it was Jimmy who was a great judgement of college player talent. Jerry Reese with the Giants is a good college player evaluater and he won 2 Championships.

Same as with Baseball. You need great scouts because that is where it all starts....

 

Just like all of the picks the Cowboys received from the Vikings for H.Walker. The moral is...Use those Draft Picks Wisely...  

I've been saying for a long time now that as long as Jerry is running the draft room - we will never win a title again. You are correct in that championship teams are built from within - scouting and drafting is where it is at. I believe we have good talent evaluators - the problem is the head clown at Valley Ranch doesn't listen to them - least not as much as he should..... Last year this team was riddled with holes - we had just finished 3rd in the division for the third straight year. After making a solid pick with Fredrick in the 1st round - Jerry takes a back up, pass catching TE with our 2nd round pick. Unfreaking believable - and a perfect example as to why this team continues to suck.  



#15 fightingrousher

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 04:14 PM

The Good: We won - well that and (at least for a week) we can put all the stupid ass Dez/sideline talk to bed.

 

The Bad: Our defense - specifically our run defense. I understand we are playing with back ups of back ups - but good Gawd we can't stop anybody.

 

The Ugly: Our running game - it is flat out horrible. Murray 31 yards on 4 carries (27 of that on 1 run), Randle 3 yards on 1 carry, Dunbar -6 yards on 3 carries. Romo aired it out 51 times y-day - that isn't going to get it done.

 

 

It's out there and prolly not a very popular idea - but I think JeRah should consider trading Dez. He's signed thru 2014 - if you move him after this year you at least get something for him, and we need all the draft picks we can get. If you keep him you resign him to a giant ass contract - and would he really be worth it? We have him now, how close are we to a SB? Uh, not very. And like I've said before - we can win and move the ball with the likes of Harris, Beasley, and Wiliams. We need offensive guards, an offensive tackle, defensive tackles, defensive ends, and secondary help way more than we need a flashy wr.

I know the running game has not looked good but 8 freaking carries? In a game that they lead a good portion of no less. I feel they abandon the run way too fast. I thought Callahan was going to come in and make better play calling decisions but I feel it is the same as when garrett was play calling. I am not crazy about trading Dez just because I know it is Jerry who is making the calls with the draft picks we will get for him. Although I do believe that if the offensive line is better they can move the ball with the remaining receivers. Something does have to be done about all the overpaid players. I feel like Jerry feels like if he pays them more they will perform better. The sad thing is with all the restructuring of contracts I don't see the cowboys getting much better any time soon with all the salary cap problems looming. 

 

Also, I get confused about salary cap details but I think the difference between keeping miles and cutting him is less than 400K so I think they will actually keep him next year. 

 

I like the idea of winning the division but what a crappy division to win and it may not even happen. I would almost assume blow this team up and start over. I hate these .500 seasons year after year.



#16 Cruzer

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 10:40 AM

I am not crazy about trading Dez just because I know it is Jerry who is making the calls with the draft picks we will get for him. Although I do believe that if the offensive line is better they can move the ball with the remaining receivers. Something does have to be done about all the overpaid players. I feel like Jerry feels like if he pays them more they will perform better. The sad thing is with all the restructuring of contracts I don't see the cowboys getting much better any time soon with all the salary cap problems looming. 

2 of Jerry's biggest faults are he doesn't understand real football talent, and he mismanages the cap. The contracts you mention are absolute killers - M. Austin $57m, J. Ratliff $40m, O. Scandrick $27m, B. Carr $50m, are you serious? No wonder we are in such a miserable cap mess. As you stated, the continuous restructuring of deals only makes matters worse - those payments are going to come due one day and when they do things are going to get even more dire.

 

Then there is the matter of talent evaluation and draft strategy. Jerry might be a bonafide business genius in the real world - but in the football world he is a blundering idiot. I understand this team has been riddled with injuries - but that alone isn't an excuse for the horrible ass return we've gotten out of our recent drafts. NFL players are in their playing prime between the ages of 25-28 wouldn't you say? Did you know that of the 22 starters we have on offense and defense that we have 1 player starting from the 2007 draft, zero from the 2008 draft, and zero from the 2009 draft. 3 freaking entire drafts and we got absolutely nothing out of it, not 1 single player who should be in their prime is starting on this team from those drafts - that is insane!    :wall:



#17 Upper Class Trash

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 10:59 AM

The sad thing is if they cut Miles, they only see a $700k cap savings.  Ratliff already counts $7 million against the cap, and as someone pointed out above, who in the world would take Ware with that kind of money still owed to him?  They may not even have room to sign Bryant after next season.  Scandrick is a joke.  That contract was an even bigger joke.  I looked up their player contracts for 2014.  Here is the link;  http://overthecap.co...wboys&Year=2014

 

Carr is $12 million (would cost $16 million to cut him, with $12 million in 2015)

Romo is $21.7 million  ($44 million to release him)

Ware $16 million (would save $8 million by cutting him)

Witten is $8.4 (would count $8.6 against the cap to release him)

Austen is $8 million and would only save just under $400k by releasing him (I stand corrected from above)

 

This just keeps getting worse....  Look at the list.  Because of the way the idiot Jones structured the deals (mostly back end heavy), he would incur cap hits in each of the next two seasons and not save anything by releasing these guys.  A full house cleaning may be in order just to clear out the cap needed for next season alone.  He actually managed to screw the team for at least two seasons when he does have to clean up this mess. 



#18 Cruzer

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 11:13 AM

This just keeps getting worse....  Look at the list.  Because of the way the idiot Jones structured the deals (mostly back end heavy), he would incur cap hits in each of the next two seasons and not save anything by releasing these guys.  A full house cleaning may be in order just to clear out the cap needed for next season alone.  He actually managed to screw the team for at least two seasons when he does have to clean up this mess. 

It would tolerable and one thing if we had managed to squeeze out a title or SB appearance, hell even a NFC Championship showing along the way with this. But no - all we have to show for a totally wrecked salary cap and half-ass talented team is back-to-back-to-back 3rd place division finishes and a looming financial crisis. The current divsion totally sucking balls is only making matters worse - it is giving Jerry a false sense of security thinking this team is actually worth a shiat.



#19 Upper Class Trash

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 11:43 AM

Exactly.  If the Cowboys were playing in a tougher division, they wouldn't be an 8-8 team.  The longer he delays blowing the team up, the longer the rebuild process is going to be.  Who the hell structured the contracts this way?  Most intelligent teams will try to pay the guaranteed money at the beginning of the contract so they have cap flexibility built in for the future.  He backloaded all these contracts trying the "win-now" method and royally focked this team.  By the time they get out of cap hell, Romo won't be a starting NFL QB.  Nice job Jerry. 



#20 sirensong

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 12:24 PM

 NFL players are in their playing prime between the ages of 25-28 wouldn't you say? Did you know that of the 22 starters we have on offense and defense that we have 1 player starting from the 2007 draft, zero from the 2008 draft, and zero from the 2009 draft. 3 freaking entire drafts and we got absolutely nothing out of it, not 1 single player who should be in their prime is starting on this team from those drafts - that is insane!    :wall:

 

you realize that most of the team has been turned over, right?  at last count, there were only 17 players on the team who were there before garrett took over.  that included ratliff, who is now gone, and spencer, who will be gone next season.

 

yeah, DAL drafted poorly for a long time (though about equal with other teams).  but count how many starters came from the last 3 drafts.  and we're talking key guys--centerpiece starters, not just warm bodies.  



#21 sirensong

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 12:29 PM

 The longer he delays blowing the team up, the longer the rebuild process is going to be.  

 

the real problem is ware's salary.  everyone else is manageable, but ware crushes the cap.  unless he voluntarily agrees to a lower figure, it's going to be a 1-year fire sale where we go 6-10 or 3 years of rookie free agents starting.



#22 Cruzer

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 01:00 PM

 
you realize that most of the team has been turned over, right?  at last count, there were only 17 players on the team who were there before garrett took over.

Song - ha, I'm not sure if you're on the payroll or not, but gosh bless you for towing the company line.
 
Yes Red has only been in charge since mid-way of 2010 - but one thing hasn't changed, Jerry Jones is stil the GM and Jerry still determines what and who gets put on the roster. Garrett's job is to coach players - players he gets from upstairs. it doesn't matter if he wasn't here in 2007-2009, the fact of the matter is we do not have anything to show from those drafts and the players from those drafts are the ones playing in their prime right now. Do you think we finished 3rd in the division three straight years by accident? We did so bcoz we lack talent, financial flexibility, and leadership.  
 
If you haven't figured out by now - Jerry would rather go down with the ship thinking he's right than admitting he was wrong, blowing up the team - and starting over. Which means we are going to continue to swim in the pool of mediocrity, never clean house, and continue to patch and piece together a team from 2nd rate free agents and practice squad spares.
 
Back to Red - he took over mid-season of 2010 - as of today we have a total of 2 players starting from the 2011 draft and exactly 1 starting from the 2012 draft. A team who finished 3rd in the division three straight years is so deep and talented that we have only 3 players starting from the past 2 drafts? Brilliant.   

#23 sirensong

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 03:16 PM

 
Back to Red - he took over mid-season of 2010 - as of today we have a total of 2 players starting from the 2011 draft and exactly 1 starting from the 2012 draft. A team who finished 3rd in the division three straight years is so deep and talented that we have only 3 players starting from the past 2 drafts? Brilliant.   

 

starters come from the first three rounds.  league-wide, after the first 3 rounds there's only about a 20% chance of a player starting.

 

2012 features 2 picks from the first 3 rounds--claiborne and crawford.  crawford was slated to be the primary rotation guy, and you can't fault the team for a preseason injury.  so that's 50%.

 

2011: 100% out of the first 3 rounds: smith, carter, and murray.  don't forget about harris later in the draft.

 

2010: dez and lee--another 100%.

 

and 2013:  frederick, escobar (who i know you don't like, but he is a starter), williams, and wilcox.  another 100%.

 

so since 2010, dallas has scored 10 starters out of their 11 picks through 3 rounds.  SEA is close--they've drafted exceptionally well.  OTOH, i think GB got 3 or 4.  but that's half our current starting lineup, not including the UDFAs leary, beasley, heath, and pellerin.

 

we've gone round and round on this before, and i think you make a lot of good points.  you'll notice that i'm not claiming DAL is a good team or anything--my only point is that things seem to be changing.  i did some thinking about what your position on dez, and while i don't completely agree, i think your point holds water.  romo can make stars out of second-rate WRs as long as he has a running game and just a little time on the pocket.  so if i could trade dez for the next peterson, i'd be happy to do that.  but that's a big 'if'.  



#24 Gepetto

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 09:48 PM

Trading Dez is the worst idea I've ever read.



#25 Gepetto

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 09:50 PM

Cutting Miles Austin is a dumb move too.



#26 sirensong

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 11:45 PM

Trading Dez is the worst idea I've ever read.

 

though i don't completely agree with him, cruzer makes a fair point: successful offenses are seldom built around a WR, and dez is going to demand premium money--substantially more than wallace, and within shouting distance of calvin money.  since romo can make the offense work with lesser receivers, it makes sense not to mortgage the entire team's cap to a WR.

 

now, my opinion is that you build a team around star players, and i don't think that dez should be dumped.  but if i could choose between a star WR and a star RB to build a team around, i'll take the latter.  if romo had a real run game, i think we'd have seen substantially different results these last 3 years.  but without knowing that a guy was going to turn into the next peterson/foster/rice, it's just too big a gamble to let the best player on your roster walk.

 

i do agree that cutting austin before next season would be myopic--his cap money is already sunk, and it would be a waste of the investment to cut him loose for <$1M in cap savings.



#27 Phurfur

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 08:39 AM

 

starters come from the first three rounds.  league-wide, after the first 3 rounds there's only about a 20% chance of a player starting.

 

2012 features 2 picks from the first 3 rounds--claiborne and crawford.  crawford was slated to be the primary rotation guy, and you can't fault the team for a preseason injury.  so that's 50%.

 

2011: 100% out of the first 3 rounds: smith, carter, and murray.  don't forget about harris later in the draft.

 

2010: dez and lee--another 100%.

 

and 2013:  frederick, escobar (who i know you don't like, but he is a starter), williams, and wilcox.  another 100%.

 

so since 2010, dallas has scored 10 starters out of their 11 picks through 3 rounds.  SEA is close--they've drafted exceptionally well.  OTOH, i think GB got 3 or 4.  but that's half our current starting lineup, not including the UDFAs leary, beasley, heath, and pellerin.

 

we've gone round and round on this before, and i think you make a lot of good points.  you'll notice that i'm not claiming DAL is a good team or anything--my only point is that things seem to be changing.  i did some thinking about what your position on dez, and while i don't completely agree, i think your point holds water.  romo can make stars out of second-rate WRs as long as he has a running game and just a little time on the pocket.  so if i could trade dez for the next peterson, i'd be happy to do that.  but that's a big 'if'.  

but these 11 picks are on a team that is 5-4 and have not beat a team with a winning record.  Is  Escobar a starter? :dunno:

 

 

 

BTW: Right now Claiborne is a huge bust.



#28 Cruzer

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 09:34 AM

Trading Dez is the worst idea I've ever read.

Bcoz Dez and Miles have carried this team to how many post season wins now?

 

The M. Austin constract is one of the biggest blunders Jerry has ever made, and that's saying something. Dez is a phenomenal talent - but he alone is going to get you squat. You and the rest of the Jerry supporters are stuck in this time warp - a time warp that has you believing we are just a super star piece here or a key player away there from returning to SBs. You all think we are on the right track now - truth is we are stuck on the same crap ass track we've been on - and dead ahead behind the horizon is a 500 foot cement block wall called salary cap that is going to smash this 'rebuilding' process to pieces.  

 

Like I told Ssong before - go back and look at the last 6 SB champions. Name the super star, Hall of Fame bound wrs on those teams? You have to go back 7 SBs to find Marvin Harrison. Bells and whistles are great - but they sell tickets, not win titles. AP is the best rb in the game - how many SB wins, hell how many playoff wins does he have? He has 1, and in that game he gained 63 yards for a paltry 2.4 ypc average. Megatron in the best wr in the game - what does his playoff resume look like?

 

You win titles with speed defenses that can get to the qb, super star qbs (or good qbs on a hot streak), really good to great offensive lines, and solid (not great) but solid running games. As long as our defensive and offensive line are neglected and as long as we continue to field has ass units, we will never be SB quality again - no matter how many flashy cb's and wr's we have on the roster.



#29 Cruzer

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 10:16 AM

but these 11 picks are on a team that is 5-4 and have not beat a team with a winning record.  Is  Escobar a starter? :dunno:

 

 

 

BTW: Right now Claiborne is a huge bust.

With so many holes, we gave up our 1st and 2nd rounders to move up to take him too. Then to follow that up with Escobar in this year's 2nd round - Dumb and Dumber with Jerry being played by Jim Carrey.



#30 R8RMick

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 11:26 AM

This is a great discussion by people who know their football team. BTW how do you any chance of a running game with only 9 carries?
"The floggings will continue until morale improves..."

#31 sirensong

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 08:15 PM

but these 11 picks are on a team that is 5-4 and have not beat a team with a winning record.  Is  Escobar a starter? :dunno:

 

 

 

BTW: Right now Claiborne is a huge bust.

 

true.  to keep it in perspective though, 2 of those losses were to the 2 best teams in the league--DEN and KC--with a combined record of 16-1.  they've played 5 out of the top 6 offenses in the league (sunday will make 6 of the top 7), as well as the best scoring defense in the league (giving up 12.3 PPG).  they've also played 16 different defensive linemen due to injury, and megatron put up his big numbers against 2 UDFA safeties with a combined 1 year of experience.  that's not an excuse for the record, but it needs to be considered.

 

escobar is a starter in the 12 personnel, which is arguably DAL's base offense.  he takes the position that would otherwise be occupied by the starting FB.  i'm not thrilled with the situation, but it can be defended and i don't think it was a waste of a pick--i think it was an eye to the future rather than a 'win right now' pick.

 

and while claiborne has not lived up to expectations, i don't think that can be used as ammo against making the pick.  he was the elite defensive prospect of the draft--potentially a revis-like pick--and you have to draft those guys.  the only other elite pick available to them at that point was decastro, and you'll notice that he is hardly setting the world on fire either.  sometimes prospects just don't pan out.

 

but dear lord...what happened to the confident, instinctive ball-hawk from LSU?  the guy was a better cover corner than peterson, but now...

 

:wall:



#32 Cruzer

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 03:25 PM

escobar is a starter in the 12 personnel, which is arguably DAL's base offense.  he takes the position that would otherwise be occupied by the starting FB.  i'm not thrilled with the situation, but it can be defended and i don't think it was a waste of a pick--i think it was an eye to the future rather than a 'win right now' pick.

I'm more than willing to reach across and agree that the Escobar pick made sense. What didn't make sense and what was completely idiotic was taking him in the 2nd round. You can get a 12-personnel spot start filler in the 7th or lower rounds. Hell you can prolly find an undrafted FA one after the draft. This team sucked too bad to be dealing away (Claiborne deal) and wasting 2nd round picks (Escobar).

#33 Captain Goomy Noomy Roo

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 03:33 PM

This is a great discussion by people who know their football team. BTW how do you any chance of a running game with only 9 carries?

True...   Murray needs a chance to run the ball...   I think we see more of that this week.  I think we see more opportunities for Murray... let's see what he does with them.


I love when people say..."These fantasy football people aren't true fans... I don't know how they can root for a player instead of a team"

I say very easily!  I love fantasy football and would not be half as interested in half the NFL teams if it weren't for fantasy football.  I am probably more a fan of your home NFL team than you are.  Take away fantasy football and the NFL loses 30% of its fandom...   The Capn'

Oh by the way....Go Lions!!   and Patriots   and Broncos  ...ha!

 


#34 sirensong

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 03:07 AM

What didn't make sense and what was completely idiotic was taking him in the 2nd round. 

 

completely agree there.  the guy i wanted at that pick was warford (G), even though he would probably have been available in the 3rd.  and it would have been worth it--warford is absolutely mauling guys, and looking far better than warmack (who was a top-10 pick).

 

edit: and hanna was already on the roster anyway, which made the TE pick questionable unless they thought they were getting the next graham.



#35 Gepetto

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 02:11 PM

Bcoz Dez and Miles have carried this team to how many post season wins now?

 

The M. Austin constract is one of the biggest blunders Jerry has ever made, and that's saying something. Dez is a phenomenal talent - but he alone is going to get you squat. You and the rest of the Jerry supporters are stuck in this time warp - a time warp that has you believing we are just a super star piece here or a key player away there from returning to SBs. You all think we are on the right track now - truth is we are stuck on the same crap ass track we've been on - and dead ahead behind the horizon is a 500 foot cement block wall called salary cap that is going to smash this 'rebuilding' process to pieces.  

 

Like I told Ssong before - go back and look at the last 6 SB champions. Name the super star, Hall of Fame bound wrs on those teams? You have to go back 7 SBs to find Marvin Harrison. Bells and whistles are great - but they sell tickets, not win titles. AP is the best rb in the game - how many SB wins, hell how many playoff wins does he have? He has 1, and in that game he gained 63 yards for a paltry 2.4 ypc average. Megatron in the best wr in the game - what does his playoff resume look like?

 

You win titles with speed defenses that can get to the qb, super star qbs (or good qbs on a hot streak), really good to great offensive lines, and solid (not great) but solid running games. As long as our defensive and offensive line are neglected and as long as we continue to field has ass units, we will never be SB quality again - no matter how many flashy cb's and wr's we have on the roster.

 

Wtf?  Don't tell me how I feel about Jerry Jones as a GM.  I certainly don't support him, he's a horrible GM.  Dez could have been a bust, but instead he reached elite level, so your answer when a player reaches elite status is trade them away?  I prefer to keep the best players and replace the disappointments, through the draft.  Recommending trading away Dez has flaws.  He's a WR and won't command enough in return for what he brings to the offense (and to special teams in the playoffs if the Cowboys make it there).  Then with those picks a Dez trade brings, you've got Jerry Jones making decisions.  No, a Dez trade only makes the team worse.



#36 R8RMick

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 02:16 PM

What's absolutely laughable is you dudes could probably run that team better than the clown over on Collins Street. You know, I saw Charley Casserly this morning doing a bit on NFL AM and he is still sharp. That guy would make a great GM. 


"The floggings will continue until morale improves..."

#37 Cruzer

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 06:17 PM

Wtf?  Don't tell me how I feel about Jerry Jones as a GM.  I certainly don't support him, he's a horrible GM.  Dez could have been a bust, but instead he reached elite level, so your answer when a player reaches elite status is trade them away?  I prefer to keep the best players and replace the disappointments, through the draft.  Recommending trading away Dez has flaws.  He's a WR and won't command enough in return for what he brings to the offense (and to special teams in the playoffs if the Cowboys make it there).  Then with those picks a Dez trade brings, you've got Jerry Jones making decisions.  No, a Dez trade only makes the team worse.

Dez will be an expensive ass luxury we don't need. Would he be great? Of course. But the value of his contribution in relation to what he is going to command doesn't make sense. Flashy wrs don't win titles, like I said, look at the past few SB winners. That money would be much more valuable elsewhere bcoz this team is full of holes - and are plenty deep at wr.

#38 p.man

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 08:46 PM

If Miles Austin were healthy, I would see no problem with having Austin and Williams at wr with Beasley in the slot.

Then turn around and trade Dez for draft picks and hopefully have someone who would be somewhat competent pick the players.

Not You Jerry!



#39 Cruzer

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 08:26 AM

Well - injuries or not, that was pathetic. Not only was it bad - but it was a perfect example of just how far away we are from an actual real talented football team. Yea it was Drew Brees and yes most of the defense is banged up - but just about everyone on the offensive side of the ball is healthy.

 

Thank Gawd we were able to steal Gavin Escobar in the 2nd round last year - he didn't start last night and barely made it on to the field at all. :wall:



#40 KC Deuce

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 02:59 PM

I'm so tired of us abandoning the run so quickly in these games.  Murray had like 80 yards and a TD in the first quarter and wasn't heard from again until late in the 4th when down 30+.

 

I also hate to see us get torn apart with screens and dump passes yet nobody on the Cowboys offensive side of the ball seems to think it may be a good idea to implement some of those /plays concepts when we have the ball.  When's the last time Dallas has run a "true" screen pass to Murray ?  It's especially effective to slow down a pass rush which was necessary last night.  Since they were double teaming DEZ; you could have cleared out an entire side of the field and done whatever you wanted to.  Good offensive coordinators and good offenses find ways to get the ball in the hands of their play-makers.  We don't.

 

It's like having your balls pounded flat with a wooden hammer being a Cowboys fan.