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Bell - The conversation we should be having.

Part 2

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#1 shaabyi

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 12:37 PM

Ok so we have all been talking about Bell coming back at all, week 10, week 12... or whenever.  Old news right. Here is the discussion I would like to have:

 

If Bell does not come back until late this year or at all, I do not see ANY team wanting to deal with the head ache.  Yes someone might be willing to pay the $ for him, but if I was one of the other 31 owners in the league I would be thinking... even if I pay him the big Uhaul of cash he wants, what is stop him from pulling this stunt on our team the second year with us if he goes off the first year for them?

 

My thought. Nobody wants him next year if he doesn't show up until week 10 or later because they don't want the attitude brought to their team. Bell loses again.

 

Thoughts?

 

Shaabyi



#2 jrokh

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 12:39 PM

Maybe, but teams know bell is a gamer, someone would want him.

#3 DaBeerz

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 12:40 PM

I think there would be interest from almost every other team in the league for Bell. He warned the Steelers over and over he would hold out if they franchise tagged him without a deal.

I think there are other teams that would overpay to get a player of his caliber.

#4 weepaws

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 12:54 PM

Not the same value.

But I see the Raiders resign M Bryant.

Gruden says he things Bryant is now in a good place.

Also said he can perform.

Some one or even a few teams I’m sure would be happy to sign Bell and his big head.

He can produce.
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#5 DaBeerz

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 01:12 PM

Just an opinion on Bell - I know he's getting a lot of hate for holding out but...

 

What are his options?  What happens to him if he gets hurt or underperforms badly during a franchise tag year when he's shopping for a deal. Yes, he could get 14+ mil but he could also get hurt and lose out on any future deals. 

 

So he's holding out. Should he be the highest comped RB in the league?  Possibly. I know he wants RB1 + WR2 level compensation which is really high. YOu can look at the highest paid RB in the league right now and Bell is clearly better than all of them. 

 

Le'Veon Bell, Pittsburgh Steelers

2018 Cap Hit: $14.54  Million

 

Jerick McKinnon, San Francisco 49ers

2018 Cap Hit: $10.5 Million

 

LeSean McCoy, Buffalo Bills

2018 Cap Hit: $8.95 Million

 

Ezekiel Elliott, Dallas Cowboys

2018 Cap Hit: $6.8 Million

 

Lamar Miller, Houston Texans

2018 Cap Hit: $6.75 Million

 

Anyway, Bell is probably looking for too much money and too much term, but this is also partly the Steeler's fault for trying to franchise tag him 2 years in a row where he was very vocal about what he would do if they tried that. I look at this as a player exercising one of the few options they have to gain leverage in a contract negotiation. 



#6 We Tigers

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 01:15 PM

Nah...like we were talking about in the latest Conner thread, there are a lot of teams with a lottt of cap space next year. Some teams might sour on him after all this, but certainly not all of them. Hell get a contract at least as good as David Johnsons and probably better from someone.

#7 LuckyBastard13

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 01:33 PM

Let's be real here. Put yourself in Bell's shoes. No way is going to step foot on the field this year. If he does, he's not as smart as his agent and everyone else keeps saying he is. 

 

Hear me out, why would he come back and actually suit up in Week 11 when he's already forfeited 10 game checks AND if he tears an ACL in "non contact" practice or stretching, whatever, not only is he completely screwed for his next contract, but he wouldn't even collect the full $14 million this year, so there would have been NO POINT to holdout or stay away.  

 

Here's exactly how this should play out and what I would do if I was in his situation. 

 

1. Come back as late as possible and report "My hammy is tight" or "I have a migraine" or whatever the hell excuse he wants to make sure he does not jeopardize his future. 

2. Get paid in the off season. And he WILL get paid in the off season.

 

The amount of disrespect the shitty Steelers organization show's most of it's players (with the exception of the QB). is on them. You have the best RB over the last 3 years and you don't pay this guy!?!? And then you have guys who haven't done it as long as him getting paid left and right. F that noise. 

 

I love how people think "other" teams will sour on him, lol. For what? respecting his worth? Other teams will pay him and when gets his guaranteed money he won't be holding out and disgruntled and oh by the way didn't get ran into the ground with another 400+ touches and 1000+ hits on his body from this year. 

 

And if you drafted him, or own him (Which I do btw, but have Conner at least). don't call him greedy or "not a team player". That's all BS. If any one of you were in his shoes, with the way RB's are treated and their lack of longevity, he deserves to get pad and he can do whatever he needs to do to ensure that.

 

Packers should jump all over him in the off season, Rodgers would be God Like with him in that lineup. 



#8 Mullog

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 01:35 PM

I think he is just looking for a decent pile of guaranteed money.  Once he gets that (some team will pay him) I think he will be willing to let loose on the field again and show why he is so great.  If he were to pull the same stunt again after getting what he was asking for...then we'd start hearing about him being given the Kaepernick treatment.  And it would be deserved.


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#9 DaBeerz

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 01:41 PM

Let's be real here. Put yourself in Bell's shoes. No way is going to step foot on the field this year. If he does, he's not as smart as his agent and everyone else keeps saying he is. 

 

Hear me out, why would he come back and actually suit up in Week 11 when he's already forfeited 10 game checks AND if he tears an ACL in "non contact" practice or stretching, whatever, not only is he completely screwed for his next contract, but he wouldn't even collect the full $14 million this year, so there would have been NO POINT to holdout or stay away.  

 

Here's exactly how this should play out and what I would do if I was in his situation. 

 

1. Come back as late as possible and report "My hammy is tight" or "I have a migraine" or whatever the hell excuse he wants to make sure he does not jeopardize his future. 

2. Get paid in the off season. And he WILL get paid in the off season.

 

The amount of disrespect the shitty Steelers organization show's most of it's players (with the exception of the QB). is on them. You have the best RB over the last 3 years and you don't pay this guy!?!? And then you have guys who haven't done it as long as him getting paid left and right. F that noise. 

 

I love how people think "other" teams will sour on him, lol. For what? respecting his worth? Other teams will pay him and when gets his guaranteed money he won't be holding out and disgruntled and oh by the way didn't get ran into the ground with another 400+ touches and 1000+ hits on his body from this year. 

 

And if you drafted him, or own him (Which I do btw, but have Conner at least). don't call him greedy or "not a team player". That's all BS. If any one of you were in his shoes, with the way RB's are treated and their lack of longevity, he deserves to get pad and he can do whatever he needs to do to ensure that.

 

Packers should jump all over him in the off season, Rodgers would be God Like with him in that lineup. 

 

I'm with you on this one. It does make one wonder if the Steelers are even talking to him at all about contracts or just letting it lie? 

 

I gather there isn't much communication going on at all right now. 



#10 LuckyBastard13

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 01:48 PM

 

I'm with you on this one. It does make one wonder if the Steelers are even talking to him at all about contracts or just letting it lie? 

 

I gather there isn't much communication going on at all right now. 

 

The issue is, he can't negotiate a contract with the Steelers this year at all anymore, that ship has sailed. He can only sign his franchise tag and report by week 10 to get credit for this season or be traded. I'm not sure if he can negotiate a contract if he's traded this year, that's the only unknown for me. 

 

Now the Steelers can def be bastards and "Transition Tag" him which means anyone who signs him will get  compensation so that will have an impact. They did say they wouldn't do that but if he does what he should do, I can see them going back on that statement. 



#11 DaBeerz

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 02:12 PM

 
The issue is, he can't negotiate a contract with the Steelers this year at all anymore, that ship has sailed. He can only sign his franchise tag and report by week 10 to get credit for this season or be traded. I'm not sure if he can negotiate a contract if he's traded this year, that's the only unknown for me. 
 
Now the Steelers can def be bastards and "Transition Tag" him which means anyone who signs him will get  compensation so that will have an impact. They did say they wouldn't do that but if he does what he should do, I can see them going back on that statement. 


It's a high stakes game of chicken then. Why shouldn't Bell get paid what Antonio Brown makes? He contributes about equal value.

#12 SexyRexy

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 02:18 PM

Ok so we have all been talking about Bell coming back at all, week 10, week 12... or whenever.  Old news right. Here is the discussion I would like to have:

 

If Bell does not come back until late this year or at all, I do not see ANY team wanting to deal with the head ache.  Yes someone might be willing to pay the $ for him, but if I was one of the other 31 owners in the league I would be thinking... even if I pay him the big Uhaul of cash he wants, what is stop him from pulling this stunt on our team the second year with us if he goes off the first year for them?

 

My thought. Nobody wants him next year if he doesn't show up until week 10 or later because they don't want the attitude brought to their team. Bell loses again.

 

Thoughts?

 

Shaabyi

 

I don't agree at all. His market will not be hindered. He's getting paid, and if anything he makes a case for having a lot less mileage on him without an injury.  Dude is getting paid no matter what.



#13 brotherbock

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 02:47 PM

Ok so we have all been talking about Bell coming back at all, week 10, week 12... or whenever.  Old news right. Here is the discussion I would like to have:

 

If Bell does not come back until late this year or at all, I do not see ANY team wanting to deal with the head ache.  Yes someone might be willing to pay the $ for him, but if I was one of the other 31 owners in the league I would be thinking... even if I pay him the big Uhaul of cash he wants, what is stop him from pulling this stunt on our team the second year with us if he goes off the first year for them?

 

My thought. Nobody wants him next year if he doesn't show up until week 10 or later because they don't want the attitude brought to their team. Bell loses again.

 

Thoughts?

 

Shaabyi

 

There are always teams willing to deal with guys other teams don't want.

 

Jerry Jones doesn't care at all about someone's character, or seemingly about any problems they might cause because of attitude.

The Raiders have been like this in the past. I don't think they are now.

The Bills and Browns might be so desperate that they'll take anyone.

The Ravens see themselves as one of those teams that can 'straighten a guy out'.

The Patriots are one of those teams that can straighten a guy out.

 

He'll find a home.



#14 DaBeerz

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 02:48 PM

 

There are always teams willing to deal with guys other teams don't want.

 

Jerry Jones doesn't care at all about someone's character, or seemingly about any problems they might cause because of attitude.

The Raiders have been like this in the past. I don't think they are now.

The Bills and Browns might be so desperate that they'll take anyone.

The Ravens see themselves as one of those teams that can 'straighten a guy out'.

The Patriots are one of those teams that can straighten a guy out.

 

He'll find a home.

 

Pats are pretty notorious for not paying anyone (other than Brady) over market dollar value.

 

You're not wrong though. 



#15 brotherbock

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 02:55 PM

 

Pats are pretty notorious for not paying anyone (other than Brady) over market dollar value.

 

You're not wrong though. 

 

Totally on the Pats payment issue. People are so willing to play for a proven winner that they'll do it. At least for a couple of years.

 

The Packers are the other team known for being able to straighten people out. They do it by being a small town where players actually report 'feeling good feelings' and leaving behind troubled pasts. The Pats do it by just offering a chance to win, and the threat of sh!t-canning them if they mess up. Both seem to work :)



#16 jgcrawfish

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 03:28 PM

Article came out about this.  Two anonymous GM's had differing opinions, on saying that he would not want Bell in his locker room because he was a me-first guy, the other saying the talent is worth the risk.  I wish Pittsburgh would work out a sign and trade deal for a 1st or early /2nd rounder.  The 49'ers, having lost McKinnon, still have loads of cap room and could potentially be a legit threat with Bell.  I believe that he HAS to sign the contract for Pittsburgh to get any compensation in FA for his loss next year, which would at max be a 3rd rounder.  If i'm Colbert, no way to i work a deal with anybody who's possible a playoff team, anybody in my division at all, etc.  

 

I personally don't think he can sit out the year, if only because being out of football shape for year CAN'T help him.  And there's still the idea that the Steelers could franchise him next year and may be able to do so at much reduced rate because his salary would be 144% of what he made this year...which could be nothing or could be 6 games worth.  



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#17 DaBeerz

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 03:39 PM

Article came out about this.  Two anonymous GM's had differing opinions, on saying that he would not want Bell in his locker room because he was a me-first guy, the other saying the talent is worth the risk.  I wish Pittsburgh would work out a sign and trade deal for a 1st or early /2nd rounder.  The 49'ers, having lost McKinnon, still have loads of cap room and could potentially be a legit threat with Bell.  I believe that he HAS to sign the contract for Pittsburgh to get any compensation in FA for his loss next year, which would at max be a 3rd rounder.  If i'm Colbert, no way to i work a deal with anybody who's possible a playoff team, anybody in my division at all, etc.  

 

I personally don't think he can sit out the year, if only because being out of football shape for year CAN'T help him.  And there's still the idea that the Steelers could franchise him next year and may be able to do so at much reduced rate because his salary would be 144% of what he made this year...which could be nothing or could be 6 games worth.  

 

is there any precedent for this, where a player in recent history has been franchise tagged and refused to play?  What happened the following year? 

 

I can't recall any players with really lengthy hold outs. 



#18 jgcrawfish

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 03:44 PM

 

is there any precedent for this, where a player in recent history has been franchise tagged and refused to play?  What happened the following year? 

 

I can't recall any players with really lengthy hold outs. 

Vincent Jackson of the Chargers, but that was under the old CBA.  Not sure if the rules apply the same way, but he held out until week 10.  Reported then and was eligible for the last 6 games.  Then the Chargers hit him with the tag again next season for % over his 6-game pay the year before.  I believe they traded him.  

 

Nobody will hold out all year.  They lose a year of eligibility and would essentially get the same offer again the following year that they got this year.  Pittsburgh won't rescind it because the FA loss compensation is too good, too valuable.  



"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

#19 DaBeerz

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 04:01 PM

Vincent Jackson of the Chargers, but that was under the old CBA.  Not sure if the rules apply the same way, but he held out until week 10.  Reported then and was eligible for the last 6 games.  Then the Chargers hit him with the tag again next season for % over his 6-game pay the year before.  I believe they traded him.  

 

Nobody will hold out all year.  They lose a year of eligibility and would essentially get the same offer again the following year that they got this year.  Pittsburgh won't rescind it because the FA loss compensation is too good, too valuable.  

 

What if Bell says FU, and retires. How long does he have to stay out of the league before being eligible to return to play again? 

 

We saw Lynch and Palmer do that when their teams refused to move them. 



#20 Donkey

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 04:05 PM

I think your premise is incorrect.



#21 LuckyBastard13

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 04:07 PM

He CAN'T be franchised anymore. He will report in week 10 and come up with a BS injury and not see the field. He'll get his year and be a free agent.

The only recourse for the Steelers is the "Transition" tag where if he signs elsewhere they get a draft pick.

Absolutely no point for him to report sooner let alone play. He would risk everything. Even if he plays 1 play he could risk it all and this would have been pointless because he not only screwed his future but lost out on all the game checks from week1-10

#22 LuckyBastard13

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 04:11 PM

Not to mention Bell already told the Steelers he wouldn't play under the franchise tag again after doing so in 2017.

This current system needs to change. It completely favors the owners that get a star player on a 5 year contract, then can franchise them for 2 years after that. For a RB that's the same as saying "Bye Felicia!"

Link to Bells comments.

https://profootballt...-franchise-him/

#23 DaBeerz

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 04:20 PM

Not to mention Bell already told the Steelers he wouldn't play under the franchise tag again after doing so in 2017.

This current system needs to change. It completely favors the owners that get a star player on a 5 year contract, then can franchise them for 2 years after that. For a RB that's the same as saying "Bye Felicia!"

Link to Bells comments.

https://profootballt...-franchise-him/

 

Bell is not wrong. What they need to do is inflate the franchise tag salary requirements so much that it's a really difficult decision to use it. I understand why players hate the franchise tag, it's basically a 1-year contract deal with no security if they are injured or have a down year, then they've lost all leverage for future contract negotiations. 

 

I think if a team uses the tag basically they should have to double the player's guaranteed salary amount from the previous year. If they had to pay a RB $20 million guaranteed they'd be way more motivated to get a contract deal signed. They should also not be allowed to use the franchise tag in back-to-back years on the same player. 



#24 LuckyBastard13

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 04:40 PM

 
Bell is not wrong. What they need to do is inflate the franchise tag salary requirements so much that it's a really difficult decision to use it. I understand why players hate the franchise tag, it's basically a 1-year contract deal with no security if they are injured or have a down year, then they've lost all leverage for future contract negotiations. 
 
I think if a team uses the tag basically they should have to double the player's guaranteed salary amount from the previous year. If they had to pay a RB $20 million guaranteed they'd be way more motivated to get a contract deal signed. They should also not be allowed to use the franchise tag in back-to-back years on the same player. 


Agreed, it has to be more beneficial for the player and make teams work harder to get a deal done.

#25 tanatastic

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 04:44 PM

No, when a team gives him a huge deal in free agency that’s it, he will be happy. He wants the guaranteed money and his annual will be fine. He’s pulling this stunt very specifically to get guaranteed cash around 30-50mil or whatever he thinks in his head.

#26 DaBeerz

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 04:48 PM

No, when a team gives him a huge deal in free agency that’s it, he will be happy. He wants the guaranteed money and his annual will be fine. He’s pulling this stunt very specifically to get guaranteed cash around 30-50mil or whatever he thinks in his head.

 

Bell wants Antonio Brown money. So $17M a year basically is the number, probably with a bunch guaranteed up front.

 

Allegedly he turned down $70M for 5 years. Brown got $68M for 4.



#27 thePRO

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 05:02 PM

He'll have full interest. Teams won't be worried. He's been franchise tagged two years in a row. He's been kinda screwed. He'll get paid by someone and he'll play some ball!

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#28 shorepatrol

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 07:33 PM

NIners. Release McKinnon, they have lots of draft picks to trade  :dunno:



#29 Smileseers

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 09:16 PM

He CAN'T be franchised anymore. 

Yes he CAN be franchised a third year.  


STEELERS

#30 RaiderHater's Revenge

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 09:20 PM

Bell is an idiot

 

play for 14.5 million its more than 3x the average starting RB salary

 

become a free agent or get tagged a 3rd time at 20 mil

 

free agent someone will give him 20 mil guaranteed tops


Suck it Rockford---

 

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#31 LuckyBastard13

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 09:47 PM

Yes he CAN be franchised a third year.  

Apologies, let me clarify, the team won't be able to financially fit his salary at over 20mil per year if they tag him a 3rd year, let alone pay him 16 million for doing nothing since you know he won't be playing next year either and would only be reporting and collecting a check for 6 games this year and 6 games next year with "soft tissue" injuries. or some "stitches" on his hands from a cooking accident. 



#32 jgcrawfish

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 11:08 PM

Apologies, let me clarify, the team won't be able to financially fit his salary at over 20mil per year if they tag him a 3rd year, let alone pay him 16 million for doing nothing since you know he won't be playing next year either and would only be reporting and collecting a check for 6 games this year and 6 games next year with "soft tissue" injuries. or some "stitches" on his hands from a cooking accident. 

First off, his salary next year would jump to around $20 million if they were to franchise him based off this years salary.  However, if he only plays 6 games, it's conceivable the Steelers could set his franchise # next year at around 7.4 million (6 games @ $853,000 x 144%).  Beyond that, they "could" put him in roster exemption for 2 games this year, in which case they could tender him next year at 4.9 million (4 games @ $853,000 x 144%) and still own his rights.  That's what the Chargers did to Vincent Jackson a few years back...but again, I'm not sure that's still in the CBA.  If it is, and if Bell doesn't know it, the then Steelers have ALL the power in this one.  

 

If he doesn't show at all this year, he doesn't get credit for a year of playing tenure, and I believe the Steelers rights for this year would roll to next year.  



"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

#33 Mark91G

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Posted 14 September 2018 - 03:41 AM

i get the hate that comes his way, But as a RB and one of the best the Tag must be a killer, he knows with his work load he has 3 years max left producing as he dose so like very player wants a 4/5 year contract.

i know a lot of people are saying he should just play for the 14Mil and go elsewhere next year but i think they are missing the point its not really about the amount as much as he wants to be garunteed a wage for the next 4/5 years. 

if he plays all year goes down with a knee issue that looks bad teams wont touch him next year and he has no options.

 

am he had this convo with the steelers last year and they have went about it the same way this year ( in all honesty want did they expect to happen??)

i dont think this hurts him with other teams offering him a 3/4 year contract when this year is up, raider are my bet they have cleared alot of cap room and there back feild is a mix match of players.


2018 Team 

 

QB - Brees 

RB - Fournette, Kamara, Conner, Barber, Yeldon

WR - Hilton, Lockett, Baldwin, Funchess, Nelson, M. Williams

TE  - Kelce

K    - Lutz

D    - Vikings


#34 wizbang

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Posted 14 September 2018 - 09:54 AM

I think he’s making the best financial decision. Play 8 games for $7M and keep the touch count below 250. He envisioned the Steelers giving him 450 touches and he was right to assume that. Two straight 400 touch seasons and teams shy away in free agency. $7M is not a lot of guaranteed money. He will get that based on half a season and teams know the Steelers handled this in a way ALL players hate. Bell was willing to be a 400 touch guy, he just wanted some guaranteed money in case the Steelers ran his career in to the dirt.

As a Lions fan, I hope they sign and pay Bell this offseason and we never see a Riddick play again, ever.

#35 SexyRexy

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Posted 14 September 2018 - 10:19 AM

Yes he CAN be franchised a third year.  

 

he technically can this is true. but i believe it becomes a 3x multipier on the tag price for doing so putting him somewhere in the $30 mil range which is never happening.



#36 Skinny_Bastard

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Posted 14 September 2018 - 10:24 AM

They won't franchise him a 3rd year.  Bell is gone after this season if they don't give him the long term contract.  Bell has more leverage than most think.

I won't be surprise if they end up trading him especially if Connor have another good game.


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