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wiffleball

Trump care is dead

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Well, perhaps appropos of nothing, but a basic CT scan can cost you / insurance almost $8,000.

 

Drive 50 or more miles to the next hospital and it could cost you as little as $500.

 

Completely up to the hospital.

 

Perhaps we start with that. And ya know, the $900 aspirin.

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First step is to do something about pharmaceutical costs. Biggest scam going today. 1000x markup.

do you know how much it costs to come up with and produce pharmaceuticals ?

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do you know how much it costs to come up with and produce pharmaceuticals ?

I understand that R&D is expensive. I also understand that it's very hard to do anything about pure greed in a capitalistic country.

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the fda

Bullshit. It's the owner's income. It's the CEO and president's salaries. You've seen the statistics. The ratio between our upper management and the lowly workers is far and away greater than in any other country. Pure greed.

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Bullshit. It's the owner's income. It's the CEO and president's salaries. You've seen the statistics. The ratio between our upper management and the lowly workers is far and away greater than in any other country. Pure greed.

Weird it's almost like the person who took the risk and invested the money in starting their own business should get paid more than the uneducated schlep working there.

 

Blasphemy!!

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Weird it's almost like the person who took the risk and invested the money in starting their own business should get paid more than the uneducated schlep working there.

 

Blasphemy!!

Is there a medium between getting paid more and getting paid huge sums while seeing record profits yet still gouging the public for your products?

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Is there a medium between getting paid more and getting paid huge sums while seeing record profits yet still gouging the public for your products?

Stop getting sick losers.

 

Ha i kid. Maybe but if I'm going to err on the side of somebody getting less money is pharmaceutical companies not the people that have gone to school for decades to learn how to save people. It's a mess no question.

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1. Allow the government to negotiate drug costs/charges. America is one of the few countries that won't allow negotiations with drug companies. Thank lobbyists.

 

2. Reduce the years of the patent. It's currently a 20 year patent. The sooner a drug gets to generic, the sooner it's cheaper. Maybe 10 years should be long enough to recoup R@D, and make a good profit. :dunno:

 

3. Reduce the roll of the FDA. I know that won't be popular, but to many steps and costs just to get a drug to market. Americans should have the choice to take experimental drugs if they want to. Risk/reward. Adult choices/consequences.

 

4. Remove the lawyers/ambulance chasers and frivolous lawsuits. We all have seen the commercials. If you decide to take a drug that can cause X, well if it caused X, you can't hit drug companies with a lawsuit. Again, adult choices. Sometimes it's necessary. If a drug can help your diabetes, but might cause blood thinning, well, the choice is yours. If you cut yourself and bleed out, the family shouldn't be allowed to sue.

 

5. Remove pharmaceutical lobbyist. Ban them from contact with any politician.

 

These could be a good start. :dunno: just my opinion.

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Weird it's almost like the person who took the risk and invested the money in starting their own business should get paid more than the uneducated schlep working there.

 

Blasphemy!!

LOL Yeah. All those CEOs and presidents took huge risks and struggled mightily to get where they are. :doh: Donald Trump is the typical wealthy guy. He was going to be a billionaire no matter what.

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1. Allow the government to negotiate drug costs/charges. America is one of the few countries that won't allow negotiations with drug companies. Thank lobbyists.

 

2. Reduce the years of the patent. It's currently a 20 year patent. The sooner a drug gets to generic, the sooner it's cheaper. Maybe 10 years should be long enough to recoup R@D, and make a good profit. :dunno:

 

3. Reduce the roll of the FDA. I know that won't be popular, but to many steps and costs just to get a drug to market. Americans should have the choice to take experimental drugs if they want to. Risk/reward. Adult choices/consequences.

 

4. Remove the lawyers/ambulance chasers and frivolous lawsuits. We all have seen the commercials. If you decide to take a drug that can cause X, well if it caused X, you can't hit drug companies with a lawsuit. Again, adult choices. Sometimes it's necessary. If a drug can help your diabetes, but might cause blood thinning, well, the choice is yours. If you cut yourself and bleed out, the family shouldn't be allowed to sue.

 

5. Remove pharmaceutical lobbyist. Ban them from contact with any politician.

 

These could be a good start. :dunno: just my opinion.

I saw a table one time comparing popular prescription meds' cost in Canada compared to here. It was staggering. Somehow, they can sell the same drugs for a fraction of the cost.

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apparently all the R's who opposed Obamacare and talked ###### for years, just don't even care to change things

 

If there's one thing we learned from Obummer, it's that change for the sake of change isn't always good.

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I saw a table one time comparing popular prescription meds' cost in Canada compared to here. It was staggering. Somehow, they can sell the same drugs for a fraction of the cost.

That's probably because the Canadian government negotiated the costs. America is profit first, Americans second. That's capitalism. While I love this country, it's out of control. We keep putting profits over people, and it's become sickening. I've always said there are two things we shouldn't put profit first.

 

1. Healthcare

2. Education.

 

A smarter, healthier population, is better then a profit first healthcare system and educational system.

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https://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/596d27571500006303bfdff8.jpeg?cache=qlyz4t7mro&ops=scalefit_720_noupscale

 

 

Obama held multiple town hall meetings across the country, public address to Congress, multiple consultations with Congress, industry, etc. to get HC passed.

 

Donald? Drove a firetruck.

 

Hope he drove it to that dumpster-fire of a presidency.

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That's probably because the Canadian government negotiated the costs. America is profit first, Americans second. That's capitalism. While I love this country, it's out of control. We keep putting profits over people, and it's become sickening. I've always said there are two things we shouldn't put profit first.

 

1. Healthcare

2. Education.

 

A smarter, healthier population, is better then a profit first healthcare system and educational system.

Agreed 100%. As I stated earlier, the concept of capitalism is a great one. Hard work= rewards and all of that. But the downside is, there is no regulating greed. And over the years, that has gotten so out of control that it's almost grinded the country to a halt.

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That's probably because the Canadian government negotiated the costs. America is profit first, Americans second. That's capitalism. While I love this country, it's out of control. We keep putting profits over people, and it's become sickening. I've always said there are two things we shouldn't put profit first.

 

1. Healthcare

2. Education.

 

A smarter, healthier population, is better then a profit first healthcare system and educational system.

Well said...and add prisons asthat has been awful as well.

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Agreed 100%. As I stated earlier, the concept of capitalism is a great one. Hard work= rewards and all of that. But the downside is, there is no regulating greed. And over the years, that has gotten so out of control that it's almost grinded the country to a halt.

No regulations would be a disaster, but to much will stifle growth. There's always that fine line politicians need to find. Imo they never will as long as lobbyists and big business can buy or dictate law. America has become, well, has been a Corpocracy for a while now. It's hard to turn back, but it needs to be done.

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corpocracy&ved=0ahUKEwiT6MiNnZPVAhVowYMKHWGxBOUQFggyMAM&usg=AFQjCNGNxEEE7K-Hci_wOerl-BtxXbGoVA

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LOL Yeah. All those CEOs and presidents took huge risks and struggled mightily to get where they are. :doh: Donald Trump is the typical wealthy guy. He was going to be a billionaire no matter what.

Yeah what personal risks did the CEO make?

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This is putting greed and profit over Americans health. Pretty sure a good chunk of these salaries could be put to better use in the drug industry.

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.fiercepharma.com/special-report/top-20-highest-paid-biopharma-ceos&ved=0ahUKEwih4daAnpPVAhXq34MKHWefALsQFggdMAA&usg=AFQjCNEhCjKwz6fD_4pGl7alZhyDyFVDbQ

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Bullshit. It's the owner's income. It's the CEO and president's salaries. You've seen the statistics. The ratio between our upper management and the lowly workers is far and away greater than in any other country. Pure greed.

 

actually, and Pen will probably agree with this, its because in order to come up with 1 actual medication it not only takes about 3 years of clinical trials, but it also will sometimes take 5000+ compounds created just to get 1 to do something

 

my best friend works for Celgene, and in 15 years, his team has gotten 3 medicines to the market, while producing upwards of 10,000 different compounds

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I saw a table one time comparing popular prescription meds' cost in Canada compared to here. It was staggering. Somehow, they can sell the same drugs for a fraction of the cost.

 

comparing anything to the abortion that is Canadian healthcare is just plain stupid

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comparing anything to the abortion that is Canadian healthcare is just plain stupid

Not the cost of meds. Americans could pay the same without single payer.

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https://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/596d27571500006303bfdff8.jpeg?cache=qlyz4t7mro&ops=scalefit_720_noupscale

 

 

Obama held multiple town hall meetings across the country, public address to Congress, multiple consultations with Congress, industry, etc. to get HC passed.

 

Yeah, he lied his a$$ off like any other guy selling snake oil. All lies. The whole of it.

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Yeah, he lied his a$$ off like any other guy selling snake oil. All lies. The whole of it.

If it really was a pile of Lies, why the hell couldn't the Republicans repeal and replace it easily?

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comparing anything to the abortion that is Canadian healthcare is just plain stupid

I'm comparing prescription costs. It's very relevant. Perhaps our companies should talk to theirs for some pointers.

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generics also have more lenience in Canada. Things dont have to go thru 5 stages of FDA here.

Big pharma has bought politicians. It's really that simple. If America could negotiate drug costs, it would be cheaper. Why wont our government negotiate or change laws in order to negotiate? Profit and bought politicians.

 

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/09/02/business/dealbook/rising-drug-prices-put-big-pharmas-lobbying-to-the-test.html&ved=0ahUKEwjU0o6xo5PVAhVCw4MKHbWhAn4QFghKMAQ&usg=AFQjCNHK0iS3va4OPhbQ4iP8dakHGwfbuA

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I heard salaries of doctors and nurses and staff is 75% of the cost

Problem that you will have and that we have already is you will essentially Force those who want to be a doctor to go into specialized medicine only. You can say bye bye to family doctors pediatricians Etc because there's no money in it.

I'd have to look at the numbers a little bit but I'm guessing a doctor's salary is a drop in the bucket of what's causing skyrocketing cost in healthcare.

Doctor's pay accounts for around 20% of healthcare costs. When you factor in overhead for their practice, it's closer to 9%. Don't think nurses make up much more than that, but shouldn't healthcare providers be the ones getting paid for the provision of healthcare?

 

For comparison, insurers and administration account for between 20-30% of the healthcare dollar, and do nothing to treat actual patients.

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Yeah, yesterday was arguably one of Trump's worst days.

 

- You could run a montage - and Trump would be saying well over 100 times in a six month period how we has going to 'repeal and replace' Obamacare on DAY ONE!

 

But wait - what was his SECOND 'Day One?

 

- How he was going to eliminate/scrap/blow up that 'disastrous' "horrible" "worst deal I've ever seen - and I make a LOT of deals!" etc..

- The Iran Nuclear Deal.

 

 

Yeah, uh, very quietly he signed off that Iran is living up to their end of the bargain and continued to authorize the deal. - Then slunk it off to Congress.

 

Wow. It certainly has a busy 'Day One!' for Trump...

 

Worst days, he got to play in a fire truck. More like BEST DAY

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actually, and Pen will probably agree with this, its because in order to come up with 1 actual medication it not only takes about 3 years of clinical trials, but it also will sometimes take 5000+ compounds created just to get 1 to do something

 

my best friend works for Celgene, and in 15 years, his team has gotten 3 medicines to the market, while producing upwards of 10,000 different compounds

Pharm companies produce a steady stream of "me too" drugs to offset R&D costs. And offset they do, as pharmaceutical companies have some of the largest profits margins in any industry. Count how many of them are on the Fortune 500, then get back to me regarding the plight of the poor pharmaceutical companies.

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The ACA didn't fix skyrocketing premiums but it sure didn't cause them. The pickle Trump is in right now is that revoking the ACA is going to reduce the # of insured without reigning in costs. This is sort of the difference between criticizing someone else's bad plan vs having one of your own.

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The ACA didn't fix skyrocketing premiums but it sure didn't cause them. The pickle Trump is in right now is that revoking the ACA is going to reduce the # of insured without reigning in costs. This is sort of the difference between criticizing someone else's bad plan vs having one of your own.

Mr. Trump is finding out that governing is a hell of a lot harder than criticizing and opposing everything.

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Still can't hire my wife as I'd like too. Wanna know why? We need her health care coverage because I as a small business owner can't afford the turd we have in place now.

 

Anybody who believes Obamacare is a good thing is a moron.

Was that going to change with Trump care?

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Donald J. Trump ✔ @realDonaldTrump

 

Obama's complaints about Republicans stopping his agenda are BS since he had full control for two years. He can never take responsibility.

 

8:11 AM - 26 Sep 2012

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Donald J. Trump ✔ @realDonaldTrump

 

Obama's complaints about Republicans stopping his agenda are BS since he had full control for two years. He can never take responsibility.

 

8:11 AM - 26 Sep 2012

rofl. What a buffoon.

Today, when he lost yet again on the health-care deal, he blamed the Democrats. For being obstructionists. LOL the guy couldn't even get his own party. It lost because of Republicans.

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rofl. What a buffoon.

Today, when he lost yet again on the health-care deal, he blamed the Democrats. For being obstructionists. LOL the guy couldn't even get his own party. It lost because of Republicans.

Lol...the dems know its failing and refuse to help.

 

Fock em...let it fail, let it fall on their heads. Stop trying to save a party hell bent on drowning. Let them.

 

Great policy...will crumble in just under a decade..and cripple millions of americans.

Glad they will let this thing fail...and it will fail...thank god.

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Obamacare repeal is flailing because Obamacare is working

 

The Affordable Care Act’s successes are bedeviling Republican efforts to replace it.

 

The Monday night collapse of Mitch McConnell’s Better Care Reconciliation Act has many causes, but the least discussed, and most important, is this: Obamacare is working, and that’s why the Republican replacement effort is failing.

 

We have gotten used to discussing the Affordable Care Act mainly in terms of its problems, and those problems are real. There are pockets of the country in which it is working poorly. Deductibles are too high, and premiums are volatile. The Trump administration has worked hard to sabotage the insurance exchanges and drive insurers out of the marketplaces.

 

But focusing on the problems obscures the overwhelming reality: The Affordable Care is popular, it is working, and on every dimension that voters care about, it outperforms the Republican alternatives. And that makes it damn hard to replace.

 

Poll after poll shows more people now favor the Affordable Care Act than oppose it. It has higher approval ratings than Donald Trump, Mitch McConnell, Paul Ryan, or the Republican Party. It far outperforms the Republican replacement plans: A new Washington Post/ABC News poll found voters prefer Obamacare to the Republican health bill by a 2-to-1 margin — 50 to 24 percent. You rarely see numbers like that in American politics.

 

These numbers are strange if you listen to Republicans describe the Affordable Care Act. In their telling, it is always “imploding,” “failing,” “dying,” “disastrous.” How can a law in such crisis command such healthy public support? The answer is that the law is, for the most part, not in crisis. There are areas of the country where the exchanges have struggled to attract insurers, and there are markets in which premiums have increased rapidly. These problems are real and, if the party in power were interested in improving the law, solvable.

 

But even without improvements, the reality is that for most people, in most places, the Affordable Care Act is working. The bulk of its coverage expansion has been through Medicaid, which is immune to the problems of the insurance marketplaces. Surveys find that Medicaid enrollees really like their coverage; they’re just as satisfied as people who get health insurance at work. Indeed, the Medicaid expansion has proven so popular, and so effective, that Senate Republicans from Medicaid-expanding states like Ohio and Nevada have been fighting to preserve it.

 

Nor are the exchanges in anything close to a state of collapse. More than 10 million people are buying insurance off Obamacare’s exchanges, and surveys show most of them are happy with their plans. While there are some counties at risk of beginning 2018 without participating insurers, the total number is quite small — 38 out of 3,143 counties, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation.

 

Nor has the Affordable Care Act seen exploding costs either in the program or in the health care system more broadly; the ACA has cost less than the Congressional Budget Office expected, and spending growth in the health system overall has been at historic lows (an achievement for which Obamacare deserves some, though not all, of the credit). Cost control in the health system has been so unexpectedly effective that the government is now projected to spend less on health care with Obamacare than we were projected to spend without Obamacare.

 

This is the reality that Republicans are flinging their repeal effort against — and it is a reality that their plans mostly worsen. According to the Congressional Budget Office, over the next 10 years, 23 million fewer people would have insurance if the House health bill passed, 22 million fewer people would have insurance if the Senate health bill passed, and 32 million fewer people would have insurance if the 2015 repeal bill — which McConnell now wants to bring to a vote — passed.

 

Obamacare’s biggest problem is the high cost sharing that frustrates those who buy coverage on the marketplaces. But all of the Republican bills would lead to higher deductibles, higher copays, sparer insurance, and, on an apples-to-apples basis, higher premiums. The reasons for this are simple: The GOP bills cancel the individual mandate, which pushes young and healthy people to buy health insurance, and then take hundreds of billions of dollars Obamacare is currently spending to make insurance more affordable and spend it instead on tax cuts and deficit reduction.

 

If the Affordable Care Act were truly as bad as Republicans say it is, it would be easier to replace. Hell, if it were as bad as they say it is, straight repeal would be an improvement — but even conservative Republicans don’t dare discuss repeal without some kind of vague, wonderful replacement.

 

The most concise description of GOP health policy thinking was President Donald Trump’s promise to repeal Obamacare and replace it with “something terrific.” But every time Republicans offer up an actual replacement, it dramatically, embarrassingly underperforms the Affordable Care Act. Republicans have spent years complaining that the Affordable Care Act covers too few people with insurance that costs too much and covers too little. But they have not managed to come up with a replacement that covers even as many people with insurance that costs less.

 

Could the American health care system be better than it is today? Of course. But it could also be much worse. And so far, much worse is what Republicans have offered. The reality is that Obamacare took many of their best ideas on health care, the GOP remains divided on what its health care policies are even meant to achieve, and the result has been a disastrous process that has created appallingly cruel and unworkable legislation.

 

But make no mistake: The Republican failure to craft an effective replacement for Obamacare isn’t an accident. It’s a function of the fact that Obamacare is largely working, and Republicans who spent years persuading themselves and their base it’s a catastrophic failure are now slamming into that reality.

 

 

And start the ad hominem attacks.....

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