What do you consider to be a good salary?

[MDC 5,890]

An article which looks at cost of living in major cities, with the amount to live "comfortably" based on spending 50% on essentials, 30% discretionary and 20% savings: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/gobankingrates/how-much-money-you-need-t_b_9728876.html

Here's an often cited study that determines $75K salary is all that is necessary for happiness: http://www.pnas.org/content/107/38/16489.full

Thanks. Im shocked to see a reference to Phillys high cost of living. The cost of housing at least is far lower than NYC, DC and Boston. I guess being in the Northeast has skewed my perception.

[KSB2424 3,083]

Ill consider myself rich when I have Drobeski money.

Tantastic won a thread.

[KSB2424 3,083]

In the immortal words of renowned philosopher Biggie Smalls.

 

Mo money, mo problems

[MTSkiBum 1,594]

An article which looks at cost of living in major cities, with the amount to live "comfortably" based on spending 50% on essentials, 30% discretionary and 20% savings: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/gobankingrates/how-much-money-you-need-t_b_9728876.html

Here's an often cited study that determines $75K salary is all that is necessary for happiness: http://www.pnas.org/content/107/38/16489.full

It is easy to say that money is not important when you are rich. Ask a family of 4 making 75k if an extra 10k would help and you would probably get a resounding yes.

[IGotWorms 3,315]

It is easy to say that money is not important when you are rich. Ask a family of 4 making 75k if an extra 10k would help and you would probably get a resounding yes.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

Happiness has next to nothing to do with money.

 

Sure. You need enough money to provide the essentials. Housing. Food. Medical care. Child necessities.

 

A little extra to have some fun is great.

 

Beyond that, there is little correlation.

 

I make less than I have at any point in my adult life (including all perks, maybe $40,000). But my housing is paid for, have free heath insurance, and 3.5 months a year off work. And I only work about 20 hours per week.

 

I find that when I get into bad habits of lying around doing nothing, Im not very happy. When I make myself do things that are productive (work out, study, read something interesting, explore, travel) I am quite happy.

 

The most miserable periods of my life were also the highest paying ones.

[penultimatestraw 473]

It is easy to say that money is not important when you are rich. Ask a family of 4 making 75k if an extra 10k would help and you would probably get a resounding yes.

While this is true, it's also easy to think you don't earn enough when really your priorities and perception of wealth are the problems.

 

Also, I don't think anyone said $75K is enough for a family of four.

[MDC 5,890]

Happiness has next to nothing to do with money.

 

Sure. You need enough money to provide the essentials. Housing. Food. Medical care. Child necessities.

 

A little extra to have some fun is great.

 

Beyond that, there is little correlation.

 

I make less than I have at any point in my adult life (including all perks, maybe $40,000). But my housing is paid for, have free heath insurance, and 3.5 months a year off work. And I only work about 20 hours per week.

 

I find that when I get into bad habits of lying around doing nothing, Im not very happy. When I make myself do things that are productive (work out, study, read something interesting, explore, travel) I am quite happy.

Not having kids is huge here. When I was in my late 20s I lived in a one room studio / loft and had no car, no cable TV and barely any furniture. I made $45k/year and walked 5 blocks to work every day. Pretty much my entire salary was beer and pot $. I didnt give a Fock at all.

 

I miss being young.

[KSB2424 3,083]

I was rich at 31. Now Im 41 and make more than then but........

 

Private school? College? Retirement? As you get older, medical bills? I have two kids.....cars, insurance, God forbid a serious accident to anyone.

 

Happy? Sure. Still stressed? You betcha.

[Gladiators 1,904]

$100k, but not in area where the cost of living is on the upper end

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

Not having kids is huge here. When I was in my late 20s I lived in a one room studio / loft and had no car, no cable TV and barely any furniture. I made $45k/year and walked 5 blocks to work every day. Pretty much my entire salary was beer and pot $. I didnt give a Fock at all.

 

I miss being young.

I honestly do not get the appeal of having a kid.

 

Ratchet up the stress. Ratchet up the annoyance. Ratchet up the costs.

 

I mean yeah, I see the upside, but damn. For me, Id much rather just do what I want as much as possible until I die.

[IGotWorms 3,315]

I honestly do not get the appeal of having a kid.

 

Ratchet up the stress. Ratchet up the annoyance. Ratchet up the costs.

 

I mean yeah, I see the upside, but damn. For me, Id much rather just do what I want as much as possible until I die.

Thats because youre selfish.

 

Or a genius.

 

Either one.

[vuduchile 1,941]

I honestly do not get the appeal of having a kid.

 

Ratchet up the stress. Ratchet up the annoyance. Ratchet up the costs.

 

I mean yeah, I see the upside, but damn. For me, Id much rather just do what I want as much as possible until I die.

I was indifferent until I actually had kids of my own.

 

I understand that many people don't or won't feel the way I do, by there's nothing like the type of love my kids and I have for each other.

 

I wouldn't trade my time with them for any experience, vacation, career, woman, or any amount of money on the planet.

[penultimatestraw 473]

I honestly do not get the appeal of having a kid.

 

Ratchet up the stress. Ratchet up the annoyance. Ratchet up the costs.

 

I mean yeah, I see the upside, but damn. For me, Id much rather just do what I want as much as possible until I die.

I'm with you. If you don't think babies are cute, there is basically a 4-5 year window when kids aren't annoying and can do fun stuff: 7 or 8 until 12 or so, when they become surly teens. The 18+ year investment isn't worth the lost sleep, money, and independence. Basically you transition from living first person to existing vicariously through your kids.

[vuduchile 1,941]

I'm with you. If you don't think babies are cute, there is basically a 4-5 year window when kids aren't annoying and can do fun stuff: 7 or 8 until 12 or so, when they become surly teens. The 18+ year investment isn't worth the lost sleep, money, and independence. Basically you transition from living first person to existing vicariously through your kids.

To each their own, but I find this to be an incredibly sad way to look at life. Having kids doesn't have to be this way at all.

 

Of course it could be even worse than what you imagine here. But it can also be so much better.

[KSB2424 3,083]

I honestly do not get the appeal of having a kid.

 

Ratchet up the stress. Ratchet up the annoyance. Ratchet up the costs.

 

I mean yeah, I see the upside, but damn. For me, Id much rather just do what I want as much as possible until I die.

Isnt it cool that not everyone is alike?

 

There are pros and cons to everything, we all make decisions on a cost vs. benefits analysis. That equation is different for each person.

[IGotWorms 3,315]

Isnt it cool that not everyone is alike?

 

There are pros and cons to everything, we all make decisions on a cost vs. benefits analysis. That equation is different for each person.

Kids are an interesting issue though.

 

Youll never really know what life wouldve been like without them.

 

Hell never really know what it would have been like with them.

 

You may think you made the right choice (for you, at least), but how will you really know?

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

Isnt it cool that not everyone is alike?

 

There are pros and cons to everything, we all make decisions on a cost vs. benefits analysis. That equation is different for each person.

Im not trying to talk anyone out of anything. Just stating my stance.

 

Although the world would be a much better place if 2/3 of the people who have kids didnt. I walk around china all the time wondering when they are finally going to realize they are destroying themselves.

 

I generally find children annoying. Sometimes amusing for a very short period of time, but generally, I dont want to be around them.

 

I often wonder though, if I had one of my own, if it would change. At least toward that one. I think it would. I find my niece and nephew far less annoying than random kids. I like to think I would love my own like you guys talk about. It would be hell to have one and not I think.

[penultimatestraw 473]

To each their own, but I find this to be an incredibly sad way to look at life. Having kids doesn't have to be this way at all.

 

Of course it could be even worse than what you imagine here. But it can also be so much better.

Why is it sad? Plenty of people have kids. Some don't. Both sides are missing out on experiences, and neither is superior to the other.

[penultimatestraw 473]

Kids are an interesting issue though.

 

Youll never really know what life wouldve been like without them.

 

Hell never really know what it would have been like with them.

 

You may think you made the right choice (for you, at least), but how will you really know?

The same can be said about many life decisions - career, marriage, etc.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

The same can be said about many life decisions - career, marriage, etc.

Yeah, I find it sad how many people live life as a checklist, doing the things they are supposed to. I did for a long time.

 

My fiancée asked once, if we dont have kids, who will take care of us when we are old? A very Asian view.

 

I said the point is not to breed your own nurse. Hell, its cheaper to hire one than raise one anyway. And the day I need full time care, I dont really give a Fock if you kill me anyway.

[penultimatestraw 473]

I generally find children annoying. Sometimes amusing for a very short period of time, but generally, I dont want to be around them.

 

I often wonder though, if I had one of my own, if it would change.

Same. My wife and I babysit my friend's kids occasionally. The constant need for attention is exhausting. Probably the same reason I prefer cats over dogs.

[penultimatestraw 473]

Yeah, I find it sad how many people live life as a checklist, doing the things they are supposed to. I did for a long time.

 

My fiancée asked once, if we dont have kids, who will take care of us when we are old? A very Asian view.

 

I said the point is not to breed your own nurse. Hell, its cheaper to hire one than raise one anyway. And the day I need full time care, I dont really give a Fock if you kill me anyway.

Also agree 100%. The idea that kids must take care of you in old age is abhorrent. If they want to help out, great, but they aren't obliged to do anything but live their lives.

[vuduchile 1,941]

Why is it sad? Plenty of people have kids. Some don't. Both sides are missing out on experiences, and neither is superior to the other.

I'm not trying to claim superiority.

 

It's sad to me because I don't view my children as an inconvenience or a drain on my finances.

 

They don't prevent me from doing anything I want to do. In fact, they enhance my every day life experiences enough that I prefer to have them with me, whatever I'm doing.

 

I view them for what they are. Loving, caring human beings who are an integral part of my family life.

 

They sometimes bring frustration and sadness, but most often bring a level of joy and laughter that I've never experienced elsewhere.

[vuduchile 1,941]

Same. My wife and I babysit my friend's kids occasionally. The constant need for attention is exhausting. Probably the same reason I prefer cats over dogs.

Other people's kids ARE annoying. I deal with them daily as a coach.

 

Having your own is different. You won't know or be able to understand the unless you have them.

 

It's not easy to explain. At it's root,

it's probably somewhat narcissistic.

[vuduchile 1,941]

Yeah, I find it sad how many people live life as a checklist, doing the things they are supposed to. I did for a long time.

 

My fiancée asked once, if we dont have kids, who will take care of us when we are old? A very Asian view.

 

I said the point is not to breed your own nurse. Hell, its cheaper to hire one than raise one anyway. And the day I need full time care, I dont really give a Fock if you kill me anyway.

This has zero bearing on my decision to have kids.

 

My wife and will not, under any circumstances, become burdens for our kids.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

This has zero bearing on my decision to have kids.

 

My wife and will not, under any circumstances, become burdens for our kids.

Yeah, thats an area where our culture is different from the Asian, African, and to some degree Hispanic ones. Our kids are expected to leave and start their own thing. Their kids are expected to serve the greater family unit.

 

Part of it is philosophy. Part of it is third world poverty.

[KSB2424 3,083]

Again, different strokes for different folks.

 

But Ive never ever thought about having kids as a reason to have someone take care of me when Im old. Thats never even crossed my mind.

 

Kinda weird to read people think that.

[penultimatestraw 473]

I'm not trying to claim superiority.

It's sad to me because I don't view my children as an inconvenience or a drain on my finances.

They don't prevent me from doing anything I want to do. In fact, they enhance my every day life experiences enough that I prefer to have them with me, whatever I'm doing.

I view them for what they are. Loving, caring human beings who are an integral part of my family life.

They sometimes bring frustration and sadness, but most often bring a level of joy and laughter that I've never experienced elsewhere.

Sorry, but often there is an air of pity for those who choose not to have children. If one wants children but can't have them due to infertility, etc., that's understandable, but there are plenty of people who voluntarily elect not to breed.

 

I'm sure children bring a lot of incomparable joy, but I'm not willing to make the compromises necessary to be a good parent. If you enjoy every moment of parenting, more power to you.

[penultimatestraw 473]

Other people's kids ARE annoying. I deal with them daily as a coach.

Having your own is different. You won't know or be able to understand the unless you have them.

It's not easy to explain. At it's root,

it's probably somewhat narcissistic.

I think you're right about the narcissistic part. Funny as the childless people are often considered the selfish ones.

[penultimatestraw 473]

My wife and will not, under any circumstances, become burdens for our kids.

How can you guarantee this? I've seen plenty of people surprised by an extreme change in their health with associated debility, which instantly changes the lives of all their loved ones. Just because kids may help out of love, duty, etc., doesn't make it less of a burden.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

I think you're right about the narcissistic part. Funny as the childless people are often considered the selfish ones.

Both have elements of selfishness.

 

Childless - I dont want to sacrifice my time and my passions to it.

 

Breeder - I want to leave a little piece of me behind. Cast my DNA into the future. Continue the line.

 

You can make the argument at this point that having children is selfish from a resource standpoint too. Less so in America than elsewhere though.

 

More people should treat it for what it is though. A lifestyle choice, rather than an imperative.

[penultimatestraw 473]

Again, different strokes for different folks.

But Ive never ever thought about having kids as a reason to have someone take care of me when Im old. Thats never even crossed my mind.

Kinda weird to read people think that.

Yeah, Titans is right about the cultural influence. I've heard many parents, all Asian, make statements about their children's duty to care for them.

[penultimatestraw 473]

Both have elements of selfishness.

Childless - I dont want to sacrifice my time and my passions to it.

Breeder - I want to leave a little piece of me behind. Cast my DNA into the future. Continue the line.

You can make the argument at this point that having children is selfish from a resource standpoint too. Less so in America than elsewhere though.

More people should treat it for what it is though. A lifestyle choice, rather than an imperative.

Yep. There is just so much gawd damn pressure to have kids, especially for women.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

Yeah, Titans is right about the cultural influence. I've heard many parents, all Asian, make statements about their children's duty to care for them.

In china, its an actual legal duty. If you dont visit your elderly parents regularly (as defined by law) you can be fined, or even jailed I think.

 

And prior abuse or neglect is irrelevant.

[TimmySmith 2,782]

One that doubles your monthly expenses.

[MDC 5,890]

I 100% agree with Titans and Pens and dont think anybody should feel obliged to have a kid. It is tiring and expensive and limits your options. I also dont like kids really except for my own.

 

At the same time if you offered me my old life back I would never take it. My son is a much more awesome version of myself and I love him.

[vuduchile 1,941]

I think you're right about the narcissistic part. Funny as the childless people are often considered the selfish ones.

Both can be. The selfishness just manifests itself differently.

[vuduchile 1,941]

How can you guarantee this? I've seen plenty of people surprised by an extreme change in their health with associated debility, which instantly changes the lives of all their loved ones. Just because kids may help out of love, duty, etc., doesn't make it less of a burden.

I can't really. I can only plan as best I can.

[TimmySmith 2,782]

I 100% agree with Titans and Pens and dont think anybody should feel obliged to have a kid. It is tiring and expensive and limits your options. I also dont like kids really except for my own.

 

At the same time if you offered me my old life back I would never take it. My son is a much more awesome version of myself and I love him.

The thing is, you will have your life back in 20 years, much poorer than you would have been otherwise, and much richer than you would have been otherwise.

 

I, like most parents, spend a stupid amount on my son. I will have spent 150K in education before he reaches college and I am not rich.