Does KC really have a chance tonight?

[DaBeerz 88]

Seems to me KC should be giving NE a hard time, I'm leaning towards picking them outright for the win.

 

What are your thoughts? ATS, I definitely take KC, they're a 3 point home-dog, I don't mind putting down money on a competitive home-dog.

 

Is there a good chance KC win this outright?

 

[JT 137]

Home dog on Monday Night.

 

Learn it, live it, love it. One of the best bets in football, along with a west coast team coming east for a prime time game.

 

Win outright? Anything can happen, but who cares? Take the points.

[DaBeerz 88]

Home dog on Monday Night.

 

Learn it, live it, love it. One of the best bets in football, along with a west coast team coming east for a prime time game.

 

Win outright? Anything can happen, but who cares? Take the points.

 

I'm taking those points for sure. Good point on the travel from East coast to west coast.

 

However for my league pick 'em pool, we have to pick that outright winner. I'm really on the fence on that one, but my gut says go with KC. I need a win tonight to salvage a miserable week.

[JT 137]

 

I'm taking those points for sure. Good point on the travel from East coast to west coast.

 

However for my league pick 'em pool, we have to pick that outright winner. I'm really on the fence on that one, but my gut says go with KC. I need a win tonight to salvage a miserable week.

 

You misread my second trend. Most people immediately buy into picking against west coast teams that travel east because of their poor record in early Sunday games. But in prime time games, west coast teams traveling east are one of the best bets in football.

 

As for outright win, what has NE shown that makes them so formidable in a really tough place to play on a Monday Night?

[aljack88 5]

I'm a Pats' fan but my eyes are open. The Pats' O-Line is just awful, the worst I've seen in a long, long time. The big difference this year is their long time O-line coach retiring. Arnie could turn other team castoffs into starters. I will be (pleasantly) surprised if the Pats can handle the Chiefs' pass rush, especially at the tackles. If the Chiefs shutdown the Pats' run game, it's all over.

 

I think the Pats will do a lot of no huddle, quick snap count plays, to off balance the Chiefs' D. Vereen could have an important role, and a good game. But with Belichick, who knows? Vereen might not even play.

[dehaven123 31]

I'm a Pats' fan but my eyes are open. The Pats' O-Line is just awful, the worst I've seen in a long, long time. The big difference this year is their long time O-line coach retiring. Arnie could turn other team castoffs into starters. I will be (pleasantly) surprised if the Pats can handle the Chiefs' pass rush, especially at the tackles. If the Chiefs shutdown the Pats' run game, it's all over.

 

I think the Pats will do a lot of no huddle, quick snap count plays, to off balance the Chiefs' D. Vereen could have an important role, and a good game. But with Belichick, who knows? Vereen might not even play.

 

good insight and background info. thx.

[DaBeerz 88]

 

You misread my second trend. Most people immediately buy into picking against west coast teams that travel east because of their poor record in early Sunday games. But in prime time games, west coast teams traveling east are one of the best bets in football.

 

As for outright win, what has NE shown that makes them so formidable in a really tough place to play on a Monday Night?

 

Uh apparently I must be, but NE is travelling to KC, so that's more East travelling west. I hear what you're saying, it's not like it's coast to coast travel, so it probably won't impact this particular game.

 

That's what I wondered as well, I'm not sure why this game isn't a pick 'em, or maybe a -1.5 point home dog seems more reasonable. If Charles was healthy, it probably would be even.

[DaBeerz 88]

I'm a Pats' fan but my eyes are open. The Pats' O-Line is just awful, the worst I've seen in a long, long time. The big difference this year is their long time O-line coach retiring. Arnie could turn other team castoffs into starters. I will be (pleasantly) surprised if the Pats can handle the Chiefs' pass rush, especially at the tackles. If the Chiefs shutdown the Pats' run game, it's all over.

 

I think the Pats will do a lot of no huddle, quick snap count plays, to off balance the Chiefs' D. Vereen could have an important role, and a good game. But with Belichick, who knows? Vereen might not even play.

 

I'm sticking with my gut and going with KC to win outright then.

[TD Ryan2 314]

 

I'm sticking with my gut and going with KC to win outright then.

Pats fan here... an I'm VERY concerned about tonight's game. Really - I think NE could easily lose the next 2 games.

 

Arrowhead is LOUD and NE's O-line is already bad enough without noise and away-game adversity. I'm seriously concerned that Brady doesn't make it out of Arrowhead healthy - I can almost see it now if he's killed and they'll start showing the last time Brady had is ACL mangled in a KC game (not at Arrowhead though).

 

KC's corners are not great but neither are Brady's outiside WRs - and even then, Brady has no time to let any long routes develop.

 

If NE can dink/dunk with Edelman/Gronk/Vereen, avoid Ridley fumbles, and rely on Defense to control KC (and mavbe even get a defensive score) then NE can win.... 21 - 13? 24 - 17? maybe? But if NE's D isn't on it's game tonight (and they've been very good) KC is gonna' win. Brady and that offense are in shambles right now (especially the Oline - it all starts there).

[nzoner 936]

 

 

Arrowhead is LOUD and NE's O-line is already bad enough without noise and away-game adversity.

 

Speaking of LOUD,Guiness Book Of World Records is at Arrowhead tonight to see if the fans can get the record back from Seattle.

[DaBeerz 88]

Pats fan here... an I'm VERY concerned about tonight's game. Really - I think NE could easily lose the next 2 games.

 

Arrowhead is LOUD and NE's O-line is already bad enough without noise and away-game adversity. I'm seriously concerned that Brady doesn't make it our of Arrowhead healthy - I can almost see it now if he's killed and they'll start showing the last time Brady had is ACL mangled in a KC game (not at Arrowhead though).

 

KC's corners are not great but neither are Brady's outiside WRs - and even then, Brady has no time to let any long routes develop.

 

If NE can dink/dunk with Edelman/Gronk/Vereen, avoid Ridley fumbles, and rely on Defense to control KC (and mavbe even get a defensive score) then NE can win.... 21 - 13? 24 - 17? maybe? But if NE's D isn't on it's game tonight (and they've been very good) KC is gonna' win. Brady and that offense are in shambles right now (especially the Oline - it all starts there).

 

Which begs the question of why NE traded away Logan Mankins makes even less sense. No wonder Brady was pissed about that.

[TD Ryan2 314]

Speaking of LOUD,Guiness Book Of World Records is at Arrowhead tonight to see if the fans can get the record back from Seattle.

The fans will be NUTS.

1. Monday night game

2. NE Patriots

 

those two thing right there fire them up. Add in all the talk about SEA's 12th man... I bet you see KC with signs about the "original 12th man" or something. Fans will be INSANE in KC.

 

 

 

Which begs the question of why NE traded away Logan Mankins makes even less sense. No wonder Brady was pissed about that.

Mankins made a lot of money and his play had slipped... he let us his share of sacks last year... remember "Pot Roast" had the big playoff game for DEN? Yeah, Mankins was his victim most of that day.

 

But regardless of how high paid he was as a guard and the bit that his play had slipped... he was still their BEST lineman they had and his leadership and attitude are what's missed more than anything.

 

And maybe more of a loss than Mankins was the retirement of legendary Line Coach Dante Scarnecchia... and if you're not a Pats homer you may not know who he is... but losing him was huge.

Losing BOTH disastrous.

[DaBeerz 88]

 

The fans will be NUTS.

1. Monday night game

2. NE Patriots

 

those two thing right there fire them up. Add in all the talk about SEA's 12th man... I bet you see KC with signs about the "original 12th man" or something. Fans will be INSANE in KC.

 

 

Mankins made a lot of money and his play had slipped... he let us his share of sacks last year... remember "Pot Roast" had the big playoff game for DEN? Yeah, Mankins was his victim most of that day.

 

But regardless of how high paid he was as a guard and the bit that his play had slipped... he was still their BEST lineman they had and his leadership and attitude are what's missed more than anything.

 

And maybe more of a loss than Mankins was the retirement of legendary Line Coach Dante Scarnecchia... and if you're not a Pats homer you may not know who he is... but losing him was huge.

Losing BOTH disastrous.

 

 

I'm gonna just say this now, the writing is on the wall that NE should be entering rebuild mode ASAP and be grooming a QB successor for Brady. Unfortunately, they will hold on to Tom and Bill for way too long, then it will be too late, and they'll realize they have an old QB who is tied to an old coach with no viable replacement. You may be in for a few years of extreme crap (Welcome to Buffalo and Jets Territory!) in the next few years if they're not proactive. Unfortunately the Pats seem like they're still very much in the "win now" mentality. Belichick isn't so imposing in the playoffs as he used to be anymore either, it seems like other coaches have figured him out.

[edjr 5,547]

KC wins by 10

[TD Ryan2 314]

 

I'm gonna just say this now, the writing is on the wall that NE should be entering rebuild mode ASAP and be grooming a QB successor for Brady. Unfortunately, they will hold on to Tom and Bill for way too long, then it will be too late, and they'll realize they have an old QB who is tied to an old coach with no viable replacement. You may be in for a few years of extreme crap (Welcome to Buffalo and Jets Territory!) in the next few years if they're not proactive. Unfortunately the Pats seem like they're still very much in the "win now" mentality. Belichick isn't so imposing in the playoffs as he used to be anymore either, it seems like other coaches have figured him out.

not sure why you'd give BB a downgrade here. He's never been a magician (though ESPN likes cool stories like that).

NE's coaching staff (and QB) are typically prepared... that's IT... they' typically manage the clock well... typically manage down/distance well... typically manage situations and distractions well... sounds simple and boring but too many teams out there can't/don't and it's a big part of why NE has been so good for so long... Andy Reid is notorious for mismanaging the clock... and Andy isn't even a "bad" NFL coach. Fact is that there are a LOT of bad HCs in the NFL... and I'm just not sure BB can be considered one of them.

 

Brady? yup. He has slipped physically... but not to the point where he's a liability... at least I don't think so... it's hard to tell b/c he's under siege so often.

 

What NE does have going in the right direction (finally) is their Defense. The NE D can (finally) make some plays and If their pass rush is clicking, they're one of the better defenses in the league. It's the pass rush that comes and goes a bit but the fact that it's even there occasionally is more than NE's had in a while.

[JT 137]

 

Uh apparently I must be, but NE is travelling to KC, so that's more East travelling west. I hear what you're saying, it's not like it's coast to coast travel, so it probably won't impact this particular game.

 

That's what I wondered as well, I'm not sure why this game isn't a pick 'em, or maybe a -1.5 point home dog seems more reasonable. If Charles was healthy, it probably would be even.

 

Dude, they're two mutually exclusive trends. Home dog on MNF is one.

 

West coast teams traveling east for a prime time game is another.

 

They do not both apply to this game.

[DaBeerz 88]

not sure why you'd give BB a downgrade here. He's never been a magician (though ESPN likes cool stories like that).

NE's coaching staff (and QB) are typically prepared... that's IT... they' typically manage the clock well... typically manage down/distance well... typically manage situations and distractions well... sounds simple and boring but too many teams out there can't/don't and it's a big part of why NE has been so good for so long... Andy Reid is notorious for mismanaging the clock... and Andy isn't even a "bad" NFL coach. Fact is that there are a LOT of bad HCs in the NFL... and I'm just not sure BB can be considered one of them.

 

Brady? yup. He has slipped physically... but not to the point where he's a liability... at least I don't think so... it's hard to tell b/c he's under siege so often.

 

What NE does have going in the right direction (finally) is their Defense. The NE D can (finally) make some plays and If their pass rush is clicking, they're one of the better defenses in the league. It's the pass rush that comes and goes a bit but the fact that it's even there occasionally is more than NE's had in a while.

 

Agreed on the defense, they're usually solid on that side of the ball. I do like Big Vince. In fact I'm starting the NE defense tonight.

 

I'm just suggesting, the organization is all in with BB and Tom, it will be hard to move away from that mindset when Tom gets old and starts to suck (which may have already started even though it's not entirely his fault). I'm not sure how BB would interact with another QB, would he have the patience to groom some rookie to become comfortable with his system?

[TD Ryan2 314]

 

Agreed on the defense, they're usually solid on that side of the ball. I do like Big Vince. In fact I'm starting the NE defense tonight.

 

I'm just suggesting, the organization is all in with BB and Tom, it will be hard to move away from that mindset when Tom gets old and starts to suck (which may have already started even though it's not entirely his fault). I'm not sure how BB would interact with another QB, would he have the patience to groom some rookie to become comfortable with his system?

fair question.

I think Belichick is adapting. The New NFL is so passing focused that he's trying to re-shape that defense with pass rushers and DBs. Signing Revis for next year may have been part of why Mankins (an expensive run-game road grader) was let go.

*IF* the defense can return to dominance (and they're heading in the right direction) then the offense simply has to be well-managed and efficient (see. SEA, 2013... NE 2001, '03, '04)

Garapollo looks like he's in line to take the reigns from Brady... I'd guess 2 or 3 more seasons? Maybe? The questions with a QB for Beilichick are rarely about the players physical abilities... it's about his mental game... making the right decisions, quickly. Managing every situation. If he can do that and then actually blossom into a guy that can throw the ball around the yard all while not focking up???? Then they're in business. Tall order though.

 

EDIT: Look at it this way.. even with Matt Cassell, NE was a GOOD team. Wtih Brady they were ELITE... Near perfect.

[IGotWorms 3,302]

KC can absolutely win the game outright. In fact, I think they will. NE o-line just not up for the challenge

[TD Ryan2 314]

KC can absolutely win the game outright. In fact, I think they will

common sentiment from MANY Pats fans.

[nzoner 936]

 

The fans will be NUTS.

1. Monday night game

2. NE Patriots

 

those two thing right there fire them up. Add in all the talk about SEA's 12th man... I bet you see KC with signs about the "original 12th man" or something. Fans will be INSANE in KC.

 

 

 

 

 

I think you can safely add the KC Royals have a home play-off game across the parking lot tomorrow night for the first time in 29 years and there was a huge rally today in which a lot of the fans stayed and proceeded with MNF tailgating afterwards.

[TD Ryan2 314]

I think you can safely add the KC Royals have a home play-off game across the parking lot tomorrow night for the first time in 29 years and there was a huge rally today in which a lot of the fans stayed and proceeded with MNF tailgating afterwards.

yikes.

the only hope for NE then is that the fans have been at it all day and they actually start to fizzle out by kick-off.

[FeelingMN 273]

I'm gonna just say this now, the writing is on the wall that NE should be entering rebuild mode ASAP and be grooming a QB successor for Brady. Unfortunately, they will hold on to Tom and Bill for way too long, then it will be too late, and they'll realize they have an old QB who is tied to an old coach with no viable replacement. You may be in for a few years of extreme crap (Welcome to Buffalo and Jets Territory!) in the next few years if they're not proactive. Unfortunately the Pats seem like they're still very much in the "win now" mentality. Belichick isn't so imposing in the playoffs as he used to be anymore either, it seems like other coaches have figured him out.

 

They're probably still in win now mode because they've been to 3 straight championship games.

[SaintsInDome2006 128]

...

 

Mankins made a lot of money and his play had slipped... he let us his share of sacks last year... remember "Pot Roast" had the big playoff game for DEN? Yeah, Mankins was his victim most of that day.

 

But regardless of how high paid he was as a guard and the bit that his play had slipped... he was still their BEST lineman they had and his leadership and attitude are what's missed more than anything.

 

And maybe more of a loss than Mankins was the retirement of legendary Line Coach Dante Scarnecchia... and if you're not a Pats homer you may not know who he is... but losing him was huge.

Losing BOTH disastrous.

 

I'm gonna just say this now, the writing is on the wall that NE should be entering rebuild mode ASAP and be grooming a QB successor for Brady. Unfortunately, they will hold on to Tom and Bill for way too long, then it will be too late, and they'll realize they have an old QB who is tied to an old coach with no viable replacement. You may be in for a few years of extreme crap (Welcome to Buffalo and Jets Territory!) in the next few years if they're not proactive. Unfortunately the Pats seem like they're still very much in the "win now" mentality. Belichick isn't so imposing in the playoffs as he used to be anymore either, it seems like other coaches have figured him out.

 

I think you're about a year ahead of things there, they already have Garoppolo, and I also think that the Pats have already adjusted themselves by reverting back to their defense oriented philosophy. Maybe that's not complete but they're headed there.

[SaintsInDome2006 128]

The fans will be NUTS.

1. Monday night game

2. NE Patriots

 

those two thing right there fire them up. Add in all the talk about SEA's 12th man... I bet you see KC with signs about the "original 12th man" or something. Fans will be INSANE in KC.

...

 

Pats fan here... an I'm VERY concerned about tonight's game. Really - I think NE could easily lose the next 2 games.

 

Arrowhead is LOUD and NE's O-line is already bad enough without noise and away-game adversity. I'm seriously concerned that Brady doesn't make it out of Arrowhead healthy - I can almost see it now if he's killed and they'll start showing the last time Brady had is ACL mangled in a KC game (not at Arrowhead though).

 

KC's corners are not great but neither are Brady's outiside WRs - and even then, Brady has no time to let any long routes develop.

 

If NE can dink/dunk with Edelman/Gronk/Vereen, avoid Ridley fumbles, and rely on Defense to control KC (and mavbe even get a defensive score) then NE can win.... 21 - 13? 24 - 17? maybe? But if NE's D isn't on it's game tonight (and they've been very good) KC is gonna' win. Brady and that offense are in shambles right now (especially the Oline - it all starts there).

 

I'm a Pats' fan but my eyes are open. The Pats' O-Line is just awful, the worst I've seen in a long, long time. The big difference this year is their long time O-line coach retiring. Arnie could turn other team castoffs into starters. I will be (pleasantly) surprised if the Pats can handle the Chiefs' pass rush, especially at the tackles. If the Chiefs shutdown the Pats' run game, it's all over.

 

I think the Pats will do a lot of no huddle, quick snap count plays, to off balance the Chiefs' D. Vereen could have an important role, and a good game. But with Belichick, who knows? Vereen might not even play.

 

We are going to see the KC crowd have an impact. The Chiefs will push it with Kelce and Charles and I think we're going to see that offensive philosophy unwrapped for the first time, and I think we will see a dose of Knile Davis and for the first time D'Anthony Thomas. I really think that's how Reid has planned this offense to roll this year. Kelce/Charles/Thomas.

 

For the Pats they will have to play serious defense and keep the KC crowd from getting a head of steam going. If they stop KC from scoring early we could see a good night for Ridley, a quiet night for Vereen and a healthy amount of Gronk. If KC scores early and is productive I think we will see a lot of Vereen for a change and a whole lot of Edelman to keep the ball moving. It could really cut either way for Vereen owners.

 

Given how important this game is to both teams, I think it will be a close one.

[TD Ryan2 314]

Pats fans would love for NE to make a statement with this game - but I'm not sure this game is that important for NE. The AFC east is in shambles and falling to 2-2 isn't disastrous for NE.

Really, the regular season is almost meaningless for NE if no AFC east teams can improve - each year it's a question of whether they can return to elite status and truly compete late in post season.

[IGotWorms 3,302]

Pats fans would love for NE to make a statement with this game - but I'm not sure this game is that important for NE. The AFC east is in shambles and falling to 2-2 isn't disastrous for NE.

Really, the regular season is almost meaningless for NE if no AFC east teams can improve - each year it's a question of whether they can return to elite status and truly compete late in post season.

Miami looked good week one. Not since though

[aljack88 5]

"...The Patriots will roll with Julian Edelman, Danny Amendola, and Brandon LaFell as their top three receivers...."

 

 

 

Somewhere, at sometime, I think Brady pissed the HC off and this is BB getting his payback.

[IGotWorms 3,302]

"...The Patriots will roll with Julian Edelman, Danny Amendola, and Brandon LaFell as their top three receivers...."

 

 

 

Somewhere, at sometime, I think Brady pissed the HC off and this is BB getting his payback.

Maybe he's trying to push Brady into retirement? Do you get cap relief when a player retires?

[RLLD 3,455]

I am going to say yes, KC does have a chance.

 

Suddenly, the "Tom Brady never had anyone to throw to but was still so awesome" narrative has changed.... and now he has nobosy to throw to but....

[murf74 461]

I am going to say yes, KC does have a chance.

 

Suddenly, the "Tom Brady never had anyone to throw to but was still so awesome" narrative has changed.... and now he has nobosy to throw to but....

Yep and now literally benched. Never seen this in NE

[cmh6476 748]

The answer is yes

[GreenTD 56]

I'd like to thank this thread for convincing me to pick the Chiefs to win in my pick em league.

 

Feel free to make suggestions like this since I can't pick for sh1t!

[DaBeerz 88]

I'd like to thank this thread for convincing me to pick the Chiefs to win in my pick em league.

 

Feel free to make suggestions like this since I can't pick for sh1t!

 

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCKKKKK YEAH!

[ChocolateTown 4]

CHIEFS AND CHOPPER, CHIEFS AND CHOPPER

[TheErosion 6]

Yes.

[Cuse9 128]

Brady has nobody to throw to, nobody to hand off to and nobody to block for him.

 

I'd say this season is gonna go in the trash quick, unless the OLine steps up huge!!

[Cuse9 128]

I'm a Pats' fan but my eyes are open. The Pats' O-Line is just awful, the worst I've seen in a long, long time. The big difference this year is their long time O-line coach retiring. Arnie could turn other team castoffs into starters. I will be (pleasantly) surprised if the Pats can handle the Chiefs' pass rush, especially at the tackles. If the Chiefs shutdown the Pats' run game, it's all over.

 

I think the Pats will do a lot of no huddle, quick snap count plays, to off balance the Chiefs' D. Vereen could have an important role, and a good game. But with Belichick, who knows? Vereen might not even play.

Spot on!! You knocked your analysis out of the park. You ought to go pro!

[edjr 5,547]

KC wins by 10

 

TDS is what I meant