Active Shooter Response - A different kind of rant

[Alias Detective 1,179]

Maybe fat assed insurance salesman could lend a hand.

Easy...

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

Shouldn't the teacher be the first one out the door?

No, captain goes down with the ship. They need to make sure that everyone gets out

[Hardcore troubadour 12,589]

No, captain goes down with the ship. They need to make sure that everyone gets out

Stupid

[tanatastic 2,061]

No, captain goes down with the ship. They need to make sure that everyone gets out

You would catch a smoke outline of me bolting past every kid in the place if I heard shots fired. Numero uno is who I secure first.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

Stupid

Think George Costanza at the Birthday party.

[BLS 313]

All of these incidents happened in 1958 or before.

 

Yeah he's a fuckin genius.

[BLS 313]

BLS, can you give us a few tips to talk to our own kids about?

 

 

I asked them if their school ever talks to them about how to react to an active shooter and they said no.

 

If they are informed of an active shooter, the first thing they should do is leave the building if possible. Get off the property. If the police are there, tell them to put their hands up and comply with any orders.

 

If for any reason they cannot flee, they must find the closest room to them that's still open, help barricade the door. Computer power cords tied together to a table are great for doors that open outward. For doors that open inward, put something heavy against it, stack it as high as they can, and keep piling weight on the barricade.

 

Mass shooters typically do their homework. They know the average response time is roughly 11 minutes in an urban area.

This means time is critical for them to get their kills. They will likely not bother with a poorly barricaded door vs going into a room that's open or shooting at students in the hallway.

They will have more than enough weapons and ammo than they will possibly be able to use, so don't count on them running out or a weapon malfunction to stop them.

 

If another child or adult approaches their closed/locked door, they CANNOT open it, for any reason other than Law Enforcement. This cannot be easy for them to deal with.

I'd take some time to explain why. Cooler heads prevail.

 

If the shooter breaches the barricade, the idea is to get inside his/her OODA loop (google it) by using distraction techniques such as (yes, even books) throwing staplers, bags, chairs, using a fire extinguisher, etc. Anything that forces him/her to change their plan, even if for a brief moment. Then, using a swarming technique, they are all to jump on him and take him down, and if possible, take away the firearm. If they get the firearm, they should put it in a trash can. (that's the ALICE recommendation...I think it's silly, but the idea is that LE won't shoot them if they have a gun in their hand).

 

Tell them that when/if LE arrives, they will NOT stop to help anyone until the threat is gone. Tell them to stay down and out of the way if they come in.

 

Tell them that if they see anybody at school mention shooting the school up, or if someone warns them not to 'go to school tomorrow', etc., they should TELL SOMEONE ASAP.

 

They CANNOT HUDDLE in a group. It creates a killing zone. They must do SOMETHING if the shooter breaches their room.

 

I hope that helps!

[BLS 313]

Here is another thing. If all schools do the same active shooter drills and the killers are students of these schools don't ya think they know the "drill"?

 

True. But it won't matter. Having dozens of students rushing them will keep them unable to defend themselves.

[BLS 313]

I see, however I stand by my post. There’s nothing I can learn from him as far as response to a maniac with a gun running around. If I was the maniac and needed to learn how to kill more people effectively I’d give him a call.

 

Well, it's true you probably couldn't learn anything, but your assertion is wrong.

[BLS 313]

Here let's play a little game. Watch this video and put yourself as the female teacher who is standing up in this video. Go ahead and place a sidearm on her hip. And as you watch try to figure out who the shooter is going to be....

 

This is why arming teachers is simply ridiculous. **Slightly graffic**

 

 

https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=67b_1484757462

 

vs what? praying he spares you?

 

I hope your boyfriend is a bigger man than you.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

They're liberal cowards, they'd never do it.

Theyre supposed to be last out the door. Make sure all their charges make it out. Kinda like the captain of a ship.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,589]

Theyre supposed to be last out the door. Make sure all their charges make it out. Kinda like the captain of a ship.

Yeah. It's not a ship. It's stupid.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

Yeah. It's not a ship. It's stupid.

No, it is not a ship.

 

But it is similar in that the teacher is responsible for the children in his or her care. If you run out and leave a roomful of children in your care in danger, you are a collasal piece of sh!t.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,589]

No, it is not a ship.

 

But it is similar in that the teacher is responsible for the children in his or her care. If you run out and leave a roomful of children in your care in danger, you are a collasal piece of sh!t.

Yeah, that's true. But I'd rather the whole class doesn't get sent out without anyone to lead them because the teacher had to stay back because Kyle froze up and wouldn't leave. The going down with the ship thing means he will be the last to get on a lifeboat, not that he necessarily has to go down, although that was usually the case because of not enough lifeboats.

[penultimatestraw 473]

If they are informed of an active shooter, the first thing they should do is leave the building if possible. Get off the property. If the police are there, tell them to put their hands up and comply with any orders.

 

If for any reason they cannot flee, they must find the closest room to them that's still open, help barricade the door. Computer power cords tied together to a table are great for doors that open outward. For doors that open inward, put something heavy against it, stack it as high as they can, and keep piling weight on the barricade.

 

Mass shooters typically do their homework. They know the average response time is roughly 11 minutes in an urban area.

This means time is critical for them to get their kills. They will likely not bother with a poorly barricaded door vs going into a room that's open or shooting at students in the hallway.

They will have more than enough weapons and ammo than they will possibly be able to use, so don't count on them running out or a weapon malfunction to stop them.

 

If another child or adult approaches their closed/locked door, they CANNOT open it, for any reason other than Law Enforcement. This cannot be easy for them to deal with.

I'd take some time to explain why. Cooler heads prevail.

 

If the shooter breaches the barricade, the idea is to get inside his/her OODA loop (google it) by using distraction techniques such as (yes, even books) throwing staplers, bags, chairs, using a fire extinguisher, etc. Anything that forces him/her to change their plan, even if for a brief moment. Then, using a swarming technique, they are all to jump on him and take him down, and if possible, take away the firearm. If they get the firearm, they should put it in a trash can. (that's the ALICE recommendation...I think it's silly, but the idea is that LE won't shoot them if they have a gun in their hand).

 

Tell them that when/if LE arrives, they will NOT stop to help anyone until the threat is gone. Tell them to stay down and out of the way if they come in.

 

Tell them that if they see anybody at school mention shooting the school up, or if someone warns them not to 'go to school tomorrow', etc., they should TELL SOMEONE ASAP.

 

They CANNOT HUDDLE in a group. It creates a killing zone. They must do SOMETHING if the shooter breaches their room.

 

I hope that helps!

Thanks BLS. Interesting stuff.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,589]

How about the teacher locks the door when class starts and we put some bulletproof glass in the door window? And get some heavy duty doors. Every school I've ever been in has some pretty thick concrete walls. All this running around and looking for open rooms and barricading the door is stupid

[BLS 313]

How about the teacher locks the door when class starts and we put some bulletproof glass in the door window? And get some heavy duty doors. Every school I've ever been in has some pretty thick concrete walls. All this running around and looking for open rooms and barricading the door is stupid

 

You're not very smart, are you?

 

You know how many schools there are in this country?

Have you ever looked into what BP glass costs?

[Hardcore troubadour 12,589]

 

You're not very smart, are you?

 

You know how many schools there are in this country?

Have you ever looked into what BP glass costs?

I'm smart enough to not take a guy with no military or LE experience as a serious tactical instructor. Do you know how much the lawsuit will cost when under your plan the home economics teacher leaves her gun in her desk and Hector gets a hold of it? Pipe down G. I. Moe. Next time you actually run towards gunfire sight unseen you can talk.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

I'm smart enough to not take a guy with no military or LE experience as a serious tactical instructor. Do you know how much the lawsuit will cost when under your plan the home economics teacher leaves her gun in her desk and Hector gets a hold of it? Pipe down G. I. Moe. Next time you actually run towards gunfire sight unseen you can talk.

Any plan to arm teachers (which I think is moronic) would have to include lock boxes for the guns. Something similar to what they have on the wall in some courtrooms. Officers lock their piece in the box when they arrive.

[NorthernVike 2,080]

Any plan to arm teachers (which I think is moronic) would have to include lock boxes for the guns. Something similar to what they have on the wall in some courtrooms. Officers lock their piece in the box when they arrive.

You don't think our resident badass didn't know that?

[BLS 313]

I'm smart enough to not take a guy with no military or LE experience as a serious tactical instructor. Do you know how much the lawsuit will cost when under your plan the home economics teacher leaves her gun in her desk and Hector gets a hold of it? Pipe down G. I. Moe. Next time you actually run towards gunfire sight unseen you can talk.

Ok tough guy.

 

Anytime you wanna visit the range let me know.

 

Bring your wallet.

[tanatastic 2,061]

I'm smart enough to not take a guy with no military or LE experience as a serious tactical instructor. Do you know how much the lawsuit will cost when under your plan the home economics teacher leaves her gun in her desk and Hector gets a hold of it? Pipe down G. I. Moe. Next time you actually run towards gunfire sight unseen you can talk.

This for sure. A lifelong firing range enthusiast itching to live out his vigilante fantasies of saving the damsel in distress from the black home invader. This makes him an expert on active shooter response tactical protocol. Ill take my advice from military or law enforcement with actual training or field experience, thanks. Throw books at him and bum rush the shooter lol.

[wiffleball 4,631]

Hey, anybody been to the school lately? You see a shiit ton of books laying around do you?

 

,

[wiffleball 4,631]

So, reading through this, the plan is to distract the shooter with the coffee and pamphlets?

 

Great. Uncomfortable chairs, bad coffee and pamphlets. If you're lucky you might just fool him into thinking he's at an AA meeting.

[wiffleball 4,631]

I'm finishing the marketing materials to teach kids how to fashion an Effective trebuchet using materials found in every classroom.

 

 

Can be used equally effectively as an offensive stand off weapon or, alternatively as a means of exfil.

This guy gets it.

[BLS 313]

This for sure. A lifelong firing range enthusiast itching to live out his vigilante fantasies of saving the damsel in distress from the black home invader. This makes him an expert on active shooter response tactical protocol. Ill take my advice from military or law enforcement with actual training or field experience, thanks. Throw books at him and bum rush the shooter lol.

 

So you must honestly get your rocks off by being a ; every day.

Because you're awful sure of yourself, and yet you don't even bother to research it.

 

 

https://www.alicetraining.com/

 

 

 

BTW, Run, Hide, Fight was developed by the US Dept of Homeland Security, so there's that.

 

You....you're just an idiot. Hardcore Dingdong I had pegged wrong all these years. I figured there's no way he was a cop.

I know now I'm wrong. Only a dipshit beat cop can be so arrogant to think only another cop could teach him something, or that anybody other than a cop could actually stop an attacker.

 

I've trained with a ton of LE. I'm not impressed with most of their skills with firearms.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,589]

 

So you must honestly get your rocks off by being a ######; every day.

Because you're awful sure of yourself, and yet you don't even bother to research it.

 

 

 

https://www.alicetraining.com/

 

 

 

 

BTW, Run, Hide, Fight was developed by the US Dept of Homeland Security, so there's that.

 

You....you're just an idiot. Hardcore Dingdong I had pegged wrong all these years. I figured there's no way he was a cop.

I know now I'm wrong. Only a dipshit beat cop can be so arrogant to think only another cop could teach him something, or that anybody other than a cop could actually stop an attacker.

 

I've trained with a ton of LE. I'm not impressed with most of their skills with firearms.

Either am I. Teachers would be even worse.

[wiffleball 4,631]

...from the people who brought us such great strategies as duck and cover - and duct tape!

 

Run and hide! ©

 

[tanatastic 2,061]

...from the people who brought us such great strategies as duck and cover - and duct tape!

 

Run and hide! ©

 

Oh ok run and hide, now I see. My strategy was gonna be spin in circles and dance the cha cha. Now I know the professional tactics.

[wiffleball 4,631]

Oh ok run and hide, now I see. My strategy was gonna be spin in circles and dance the cha cha. Now I know the professional tactics.

[wiffleball 4,631]

I'm not touching you!

 

I'm not touching you!

 

I'm still not touching you!

 

- they hate that.

[cyclone24 1,802]

 

vs what? praying he spares you?

 

I hope your boyfriend is a bigger man than you.

 

Don't be a dumbass. Looks as though since my response you're pretty much getting shredded for this idea anyway.... It's not about praying that I get spared. It's about this illusion that an armed teacher is going to not be taken by surprise or outgunned.

 

It's cool to have acronyms. Little different story when it's real world.

[Alias Detective 1,179]

Don't be a dumbass. Looks as though since my response you're pretty much getting shredded for this idea anyway.... It's not about praying that I get spared. It's about this illusion that an armed teacher is going to not be taken by surprise or outgunned.

It's cool to have acronyms. Little different story when it's real world.

You are correct. An armed teacher can't stop every murder suicide in a school.

 

That is your basis for not arming teachers at all? Imagine it wasn't a murder suicide. Having an armed teacher next door could save a life or two. Right?

[cyclone24 1,802]

You are correct. An armed teacher can't stop every murder suicide in a school.

 

That is your basis for not arming teachers at all? Imagine it wasn't a murder suicide. Having an armed teacher next door could save a life or two. Right?

IMO I think it's more likely to get to misused or taken from the teacher than it ever would be used to stop anytHing.

 

Even if you armed several teachers. Now you have bullets whizzing everywhere. I'm not sure how that creates less death.

[wiffleball 4,631]

I have my own idea. That whole nonsense of we're not going to name the shooter by name because we don't want to make them famoys, that lasted about as long as a fart in the wind storm.

 

Let's start making fun of these fuckers. I mean, turn loose are very best smart asses. Have you seen the sketch of Adam Lanza? James Holmes? Loughner? These guys are freak shows. Yeah Lanza is dead so it wouldn't work there but the other guys? Even then, it's not so much about them as it is the next idiot who thinks he's going to be a badass and shoot up something. If he knows he's going to get ripped to shreds by all the late night shows and everybody else and made fun of? Bet this insecure little thinks twice.

 

 

Cue Libruhl, you can't make fun of mental illness! Watch me.

[Alias Detective 1,179]

IMO I think it's more likely to get to misused or taken from the teacher than it ever would be used to stop anytHing.

Even if you armed several teachers. Now you have bullets whizzing everywhere. I'm not sure how that creates less death.

Ok, different opinions then.

[penultimatestraw 473]

Ok, different opinions then.

And his opinion is supported by data that having guns in the home increases your chances of shooting someone other than a bad guy, including yourself. Why would a school full of kids improve those odds?

[NorthernVike 2,080]

IMO I think it's more likely to get to misused or taken from the teacher than it ever would be used to stop anytHing.

 

Even if you armed several teachers. Now you have bullets whizzing everywhere. I'm not sure how that creates less death.

Why would it have to be a wild west shootout? How about you train teachers to use their firearm if their room is breached? Many different scenarios where it could make a huge difference.

[Alias Detective 1,179]

And his opinion is supported by data that having guns in the home increases your chances of shooting someone other than a bad guy, including yourself. Why would a school full of kids improve those odds?

Are you more likely to get shot by an intruder in your home or a child by an intruder in their school?

[wiffleball 4,631]

So honestly, with changes in technology, we're already seeing what's going to happen. I mentioned this in the self-driving trucks thread while ago. Technology always arises to meet the need. Or sure seems that way.

 

I think we're going to see a lot more home schools. And then, we're also going to see a lot more sort of group schools. Maybe a dozen like-minded parents and their kids getting together. Also, charter schools of course.

 

we know class sizes are too high and funding is too low, etc. Days of 1200 person graduating classes likely waning.

 

So, it's just poor ethnics getting shot at school. And that was bound to happen outside of school anyway!