It's a TD for the Saints D/ST

[MikieV101 0]

So a fake FG/punt goes to the special teams because they're on the field?

 

yes

[MikieV101 0]

Do they count points against the defense when there is an offensive turnover for a TD? If so then they need to change it per the cited policy.

 

I just want sites to be consistent, if a turnover TD counts against the defense then this should count for them.

 

a turnover td does NOT count against the defense, nor should it

[FF_Guru_Guy 0]

technically they dont.

 

after a change of possession the offense becomes the defense and the defense becomes the offense. We get credit for offensive TD's scored by our defense, there is no such thing as a defensive TD, its just looked at that way to avoid confusion. Once a change of possession occurs, followed by a 2nd change of possession on the current play the original offensive team gets credit for a DEFENSIVE take away and a Defensive offensive TD

 

Pts should be credited to NO D/ST

If you check NFL.com tomorrow, you'll see that this TD will NOT be credited to the Saints defense. All defense related statistics (such as forced fumbles, fumble recoveries, defensive TDs, etc.) will NOT include Meachem's fumble recovery. Meachem's fumble recovery will NOT appear in the regular defensive or special teams stats of the box score, and the box score (or at least the official Gamebook) will treat it as an Offensive TD.

[FF_Guru_Guy 0]

So a fake FG/punt goes to the special teams because they're on the field?

Not in most fantasy leagues. Look up Hunter Smith's fake punt TD from earlier this year (Week 1 or 2). Very few leagues gave 6 points to the Redskins D on that play.

[bkbergen 1]

This is why I have this rule in place.

 

"**Keenan McCardell rule - If a Team is on offense, and they lose possession of the football by Int. or fumble yet gain it back and score a TD off of a subsequent fumble, the scoring player WILL receive credit for that TD, and the D/ST will NOT.**"

[MikieV101 0]

Not in most fantasy leagues. Look up Hunter Smith's fake punt TD from earlier this year (Week 1 or 2). Very few leagues gave 6 points to the Redskins D on that play.

 

you are correct....that was an 8 yd rushing td for Smith

[MikieV101 0]

Not in most fantasy leagues. Look up Hunter Smith's fake punt TD from earlier this year (Week 1 or 2). Very few leagues gave 6 points to the Redskins D on that play.

 

you are correct....that was an 8 yd rushing td for Smith

[MikieV101 0]

This is why I have this rule in place.

 

"**Keenan McCardell rule - If a Team is on offense, and they lose possession of the football by Int. or fumble yet gain it back and score a TD off of a subsequent fumble, the scoring player WILL receive credit for that TD, and the D/ST will NOT.**"

 

[ffsmack 0]

If you check NFL.com tomorrow, you'll see that this TD will NOT be credited to the Saints defense. All defense related statistics (such as forced fumbles, fumble recoveries, defensive TDs, etc.) will NOT include Meachem's fumble recovery. Meachem's fumble recovery will NOT appear in the regular defensive or special teams stats of the box score, and the box score (or at least the official Gamebook) will treat it as an Offensive TD.

From NFL.com: http://www.nfl.com/liveupdate/gamecenter/5...AS_Gamebook.pdf

Correct, under the final defensive statistics, Meachem is credited with a defensive tackle, forced fumble and fumble recovery under the Misc category rather than regular defensive or special teams. It is still a defensive stat, so I'll leave that part up for interpretation.

[KYSteel 0]

This whole thing is dumb. Meachem lined up as a WR and while he was on offense he scored a TD. Thats 6 plus yards. The NO D never hit the field. THAT is who u drafted, not a circumstance.

 

Quit trying to milk points. No points for a fumble recovery. Yards and TD.

 

I dont own any1 involved.

[Vikings4ever 496]

This whole thing is dumb. Meachem lined up as a WR and while he was on offense he scored a TD. Thats 6 plus yards. The NO D never hit the field. THAT is who u drafted, not a circumstance.

 

Quit trying to milk points. No points for a fumble recovery. Yards and TD.

 

I dont own any1 involved.

1. Should fake punts/FGs get scored for the special teams?

2. If a WR intercepts a pass on a last second hail mary, should he get the points?

 

I don't own anyone involved either. But recovering an opponent's fumble is a defensive play. Meachem only gets the points if you're in an IDP league.

[nobody 2,032]

You can call it whatever you want. It's a defensive play. Players don't force fumbles while playing offense. And if you insist on calling it an offensive TD make sure you credit Meachem with the rushing yards as well. Might as well credit the Redskins defense with some receiving yards as well since we are going to ignore the basics of football.

 

And I swear to Allah if anyone tries to talk about how people lined up to start the play, I'll track down your ISP and report you to homeland security as a terrorist threat.

[FF_Guru_Guy 0]

But recovering an opponent's fumble is a defensive play. Meachem only gets the points if you're in an IDP league.

That's like saying "scoring on an opponent is an offensive play".

[FF_Guru_Guy 0]

You can call it whatever you want. It's a defensive play. Players don't force fumbles while playing offense. And if you insist on calling it an offensive TD make sure you credit Meachem with the rushing yards as well. Might as well credit the Redskins defense with some receiving yards as well since we are going to ignore the basics of football.

 

And I swear to Allah if anyone tries to talk about how people lined up to start the play, I'll track down your ISP and report you to homeland security as a terrorist threat.

You shouldn't even be allowed to enter this thread if you think "rushing yards" were involved. This isn't novice-level fantasy discussion.

[Darth Fumble 0]

As a Saints DST owner

 

I tihnk it should be a meachem fumble return TD. (I guess you can get yards too if your league gives return yardage)

 

To me, its no different than, say, an offensive player who also plays special teams returning a kickoff or a fumble. Since our league gives poitns for those, I hope that we get points for the meachem fiasco.

[Vikings4ever 496]

To me, its no different than, say, an offensive player who also plays special teams returning a kickoff or a fumble. Since our league gives poitns for those, I hope that we get points for the meachem fiasco.

1. If D/ST are combined, unless there's a special rule that individual players are awarded points, any kick/punt return yardage and TDs go to the D/ST unit.

 

2. If they recover a fumble on offense, it's an offensive play, as there was no change of possession.

[The Grand Master 0]

I've seen arguments that say "as soon as Washington got the ball, Meacham became a defensive player". So by that definition any time a DB picks off a pass he becomes an offensive player. Therefore he can never score a Defensive touchdown then, could he? So everyone giving out points for these so-called Defensive TDs are giving out free points.

 

That's just asinine.

 

Meacham plays on the Saints offense and everyone knows it. Anyone trying to jive defensive points from this is playing little ticky-tac games. The Saints D was not on the field at the time and therefore will not get credited with anything.

 

We installed pretty much the same rules as the Keenan McCardell Rule above and I love that name.

[MikieV101 0]

I've seen arguments that say "as soon as Washington got the ball, Meacham became a defensive player". So by that definition any time a DB picks off a pass he becomes an offensive player. Therefore he can never score a Defensive touchdown then, could he? So everyone giving out points for these so-called Defensive TDs are giving out free points.

 

That's just asinine.

 

Meacham plays on the Saints offense and everyone knows it. Anyone trying to jive defensive points from this is playing little ticky-tac games. The Saints D was not on the field at the time and therefore will not get credited with anything.

 

We installed pretty much the same rules as the Keenan McCardell Rule above and I love that name.

 

[PATSSOX 22]

here is an official ruling. CBS posted this in there weekend summary article. Now it makes sense to me. At first i thought no way in hell should Saints Def/special team get the points but i did not know the rules.

 

 

 

The last word: Plenty of Fantasy owners are wondering how the Robert Meachem fumble return for a touchdown will be scored, and here is the CBSSports.com official explanation. You can find this in the Help Center link in your league home pages.

 

"During the New Orleans Saints vs. Washington Redskins game Drew Brees threw an interception to Kareem Moore of the Redskins. Moore returned the interception 14 yards and was then stripped by Robert Meachem, who recovered the fumble and returned it 44 yards for a touchdown.

 

This is scored as a defensive fumble recovery and a defensive touchdown for the Saints DST. Meachem will not be awarded any Fantasy points for this play. By rule, when there is a change of possession via turnover, the offensive team becomes the defense and the defense becomes the offense."

[FF_Guru_Guy 0]

here is an official ruling. CBS posted this in there weekend summary article. Now it makes sense to me. At first i thought no way in hell should Saints Def/special team get the points but i did not know the rules.

It's an official ruling from the worst league management site in existence. The ONLY reason CBS is making this ruling is because they were one of the few services back in 2003 to credit the Keenan McCardell TD to the D/ST. They were ridiculed back then, so they're doubling-down now.

 

CBS is acting like it's following the NFL rules when it says "By rule, when there is a change of possession via turnover, the offensive team becomes the defense and the defense becomes the offense." BUT THEN THEY BLATANTLY IGNORE THE REST OF THAT SAME RULE!!!

 

"Team A is the offense when the down starts, but becomes the defense if and when B secures possession during the down, and vice versa for each change of possession."

 

That's straight from the NFL rulebook, folks. According to the NFL, Meachem was on offense, then defense, then offense again. CBS (and other league services) are using the first part of that rule, but ignoring the second part.

 

The NFL considers Meachem's TD to be an offensive TD. That should be the end of it.

[All_The_Way 0]

cbssportsline league (10pts Defensive touchdowns) which i'm playing against the saints D.. gave it to them.. 21pts

espn league (6pts defensive touchdown) which I have the saints D on my team 8pts..

 

that sucks

[PATSSOX 22]

It's an official ruling from the worst league management site in existence. The ONLY reason CBS is making this ruling is because they were one of the few services back in 2003 to credit the Keenan McCardell TD to the D/ST. They were ridiculed back then, so they're doubling-down now.

 

CBS is acting like it's following the NFL rules when it says "By rule, when there is a change of possession via turnover, the offensive team becomes the defense and the defense becomes the offense." BUT THEN THEY BLATANTLY IGNORE THE REST OF THAT SAME RULE!!!

 

"Team A is the offense when the down starts, but becomes the defense if and when B secures possession during the down, and vice versa for each change of possession."

 

That's straight from the NFL rulebook, folks. According to the NFL, Meachem was on offense, then defense, then offense again. CBS (and other league services) are using the first part of that rule, but ignoring the second part.

 

The NFL considers Meachem's TD to be an offensive TD. That should be the end of it.

 

 

i dont know if there is no way to show the TD in box score for Meachem as an offensive player or not but the NFL's box score only has the TD as a fumble return. to me that sounds like a defensive TD??

 

nfl.com saints box score

 

so take that for whats its worth

[PackYourNut 47]

So a fake FG/punt goes to the special teams because they're on the field?

 

The offense is on the field at this point. Not sure what you're talking about.

 

For FF purposes, it is an offensive fumble recovery for a TD. If the defense is not on the field, it can't be a a defensive score regardless of what "technicalities" anyone sites.

[Vikings4ever 496]

The offense is on the field at this point. Not sure what you're talking about.

 

For FF purposes, it is an offensive fumble recovery for a TD. If the defense is not on the field, it can't be a a defensive score regardless of what "technicalities" anyone sites.

It's an offensive score because the offense was on the field = it's a special teams score because the special teams was on the field.

 

The best way I can sum it up is this:

 

If your league penalizes a team D when their offense gives up a fumble/INT return for a TD, Meachem's points go to the Saint's D/ST.

 

If your league doesn't, Meachem might get the points depending on the wording of the rules (there may not be any scoring set up for offensive players recovering fumbles).

 

Same logic as a couple weeks ago when the Lions offense got a safety on the Rams defender.

[swandown 0]

i dont know if there is no way to show the TD in box score for Meachem as an offensive player or not but the NFL's box score only has the TD as a fumble return. to me that sounds like a defensive TD??

 

nfl.com saints box score

 

so take that for whats its worth

 

But notice how Meachem is not listed under "Defense" on the lower left? If the NFL considered it to be a defensive TD, wouldn't he get credit for the FF there?

 

Also, the official NFL Gamebook lists it as an Offensive TD (scroll down to the last page).

[swandown 0]

It's an offensive score because the offense was on the field = it's a special teams score because the special teams was on the field.

 

This is a different argument altogether, since the NFL has a very clear rule about what defines a Special Teams play (i.e., the ball MUST be kicked), whereas the definitions of "offense" and "defense" are much more murkier.

[gridiron whirlwinds 2]

In our league, it is pretty simple.

 

A defensive TD only counts when the teams Defensive team is on the field.

 

This just counted as a TD for Meacham

[Mephisto 15]

In spite of RTSports "policy" - my league rules are predicated on all individuals who score TDs, regardless of how they score that TD, gets credit for it. It's easy to set-up that way because of the check-boxes for individual positions.

 

What's interesting about their policy is that with RTS, the Saints DST got credit for the Meachum fumble recovery, but not the Touchdown, which is in direct conflict with their position regarding the touchdown. No biggie, as you can't account for every flukey play which may occur during an NFL game.

 

Since the NFL rules that a change-of-possession takes place on the play, I used the Commissioner override feature and gave the owner of the Saints DST credit for the TD. Now, some of you may argue (foolishly) that this makes the defense become the offense. In theory, you would be correct, but for the purposes of the continuation of play, the potential results of that play are awarded to your DST. My position is very much like that of the NFL's in this case. Since there was a change of possession on the INT, the offense is now operating in a defensive capacity and if there is a resulting fumble with a touchdown, it's getting credited to the individual and the DST on the play.

 

RTS shoots itself in the foot by giving the Saints DST credit for the fumble recovery but not for the ensuing touchdown.

[swandown 0]

Since the NFL rules that a change-of-possession takes place on the play, I used the Commissioner override feature and gave the owner of the Saints DST credit for the TD. Now, some of you may argue (foolishly) that this makes the defense become the offense. In theory, you would be correct, but for the purposes of the continuation of play, the potential results of that play are awarded to your DST. My position is very much like that of the NFL's in this case. Since there was a change of possession on the INT, the offense is now operating in a defensive capacity and if there is a resulting fumble with a touchdown, it's getting credited to the individual and the DST on the play.

 

Just curious: why do you place so much value on the 1st change of possession, yet completely ignore the 2nd change of possession? That seems arbitrary to me. Further, it's a direct contradiction of the official NFL rulebook, which specifically states that Team A and Team B change back to their original designations when there is a 2nd turnover.

 

Your position is not like the NFL's at all.

[Mephisto 15]

Further, it's a direct contradiction of the official NFL rulebook, which specifically states that Team A and Team B change back to their original designations when there is a 2nd turnover.

 

Your position is not like the NFL's at all.

 

Link?

[posty 2,296]

It is an "Offensive Fumble Recovery TD"...

 

Elias will come out on Thursday and state what the result is...

[KSB2424 3,082]

There is no correct answer. This is where fantasy football and real football don't mesh. It's an anomoly that can be looked at from a multitude of angles with each angle having it's own merits and flaws.

 

Just score it as your hosting site scores it.

[plasma george 52]

In spite of RTSports "policy" - my league rules are predicated on all individuals who score TDs, regardless of how they score that TD, gets credit for it. It's easy to set-up that way because of the check-boxes for individual positions.

 

What's interesting about their policy is that with RTS, the Saints DST got credit for the Meachum fumble recovery, but not the Touchdown, which is in direct conflict with their position regarding the touchdown. No biggie, as you can't account for every flukey play which may occur during an NFL game.

 

Since the NFL rules that a change-of-possession takes place on the play, I used the Commissioner override feature and gave the owner of the Saints DST credit for the TD. Now, some of you may argue (foolishly) that this makes the defense become the offense. In theory, you would be correct, but for the purposes of the continuation of play, the potential results of that play are awarded to your DST. My position is very much like that of the NFL's in this case. Since there was a change of possession on the INT, the offense is now operating in a defensive capacity and if there is a resulting fumble with a touchdown, it's getting credited to the individual and the DST on the play.

 

RTS shoots itself in the foot by giving the Saints DST credit for the fumble recovery but not for the ensuing touchdown.

As a 15 year Commish, I've never, and will never go in and "adjust" the scoring. Especially being a competing owner. That's a Conflict of Interest right there.

 

We have our rules in place, per CBS, and that's the final say....no Commissioner adjusting whatsoever....Saints DST owner.

[Mephisto 15]

As a 15 year Commish, I've never, and will never go in and "adjust" the scoring. Especially being a competing owner. That's a Conflict of Interest right there.

 

We have our rules in place, per CBS, and that's the final say....no Commissioner adjusting whatsoever....Saints DST owner.

 

It's not a "conflict of interest" when your league's custom rules accounts for such rare adjustments due to unusual plays such as this. There is more than one right answer for any individual league. As mine has always encouraged the "double-dip" where practicable, my league is clear on how I approach this particular situation.

 

Since RTS doesn't have the ability to accommodate this situation in accordance with our league rules, this is one of those very rare times where I would have to go in an manually adjust the score.

[nobody 2,032]

You shouldn't even be allowed to enter this thread if you think "rushing yards" were involved. This isn't novice-level fantasy discussion.

 

 

If it's an offensive play, he should get rushing yards. I get that it's stupid. Just as stupid as calling it an offensive play, but if an offesnive player fumbled, and he picked it up and ran it in for a TD, he'd get rushing yards. Then again he was on defense at the time so it doesn't matter.

[nobody 2,032]

I've seen arguments that say "as soon as Washington got the ball, Meacham became a defensive player". So by that definition any time a DB picks off a pass he becomes an offensive player. Therefore he can never score a Defensive touchdown then, could he? So everyone giving out points for these so-called Defensive TDs are giving out free points.

 

That's just asinine.

 

Meacham plays on the Saints offense and everyone knows it. Anyone trying to jive defensive points from this is playing little ticky-tac games. The Saints D was not on the field at the time and therefore will not get credited with anything.

 

We installed pretty much the same rules as the Keenan McCardell Rule above and I love that name.

 

You're an idiot.

[nobody 2,032]

It's an official ruling from the worst league management site in existence. The ONLY reason CBS is making this ruling is because they were one of the few services back in 2003 to credit the Keenan McCardell TD to the D/ST. They were ridiculed back then, so they're doubling-down now.

 

CBS is acting like it's following the NFL rules when it says "By rule, when there is a change of possession via turnover, the offensive team becomes the defense and the defense becomes the offense." BUT THEN THEY BLATANTLY IGNORE THE REST OF THAT SAME RULE!!!

 

"Team A is the offense when the down starts, but becomes the defense if and when B secures possession during the down, and vice versa for each change of possession."

 

That's straight from the NFL rulebook, folks. According to the NFL, Meachem was on offense, then defense, then offense again. CBS (and other league services) are using the first part of that rule, but ignoring the second part.

 

The NFL considers Meachem's TD to be an offensive TD. That should be the end of it.

 

 

By your own rule, you're wrong. A DB that gets a pick scores an offensive TD by that rule. However he generated the turnover as a defensive player. That's why this is considered a defensive TD. Meachem by your own rule was on defense when he generated the fumble just like any person that actually lines up on defense and gets a fumble recovery.

[PATSSOX 22]

it should just be labeled under misc I dont think he should get credit for the TD as an offensive player nor should the defense get credit for it.

 

The argument of a fake FG or fake Punt TD is much more interesting to me. When the fake occurs the special teams are on the field and if the category is actually DEFENSE/SPECIAL TEAMS than the special teams should get credit because they are on the field.

[nobody 2,032]

it should just be labeled under misc I dont think he should get credit for the TD as an offensive player nor should the defense get credit for it.

 

The argument of a fake FG or fake Punt TD is much more interesting to me. When the fake occurs the special teams are on the field and if the category is actually DEFENSE/SPECIAL TEAMS than the special teams should get credit because they are on the field.

 

 

There's actually no ambiguity there. Offense the whole way. The punting and kicking formations are just that... formations. The offense can line up in punt or field goal formation every down and just run standard run and pass plays if they wanted to.

 

A fake punt is nothing more than substituting your qb for the punter and your normal offensive personell for your punt team and then lining up in a punt formation and running a normal offensive play.

 

Similarly, when Kordell Stewart used to play for the Steelers and would pooch punt from the shotgun formation on 3rd and long every now and then, that is a special teams play even though they lined up in a normal offensive package.

[KSB2424 3,082]

he generated the turnover as a defensive player. That's why this is considered a defensive TD.

Which is why when an offensive player generates a turnover; it can be considered an offensive TD.

 

When the Reskins player picked up the fumble (if he would have scored) then it would have been awarded to the Redskins Defense. So are you saying when the Redskins Defense fumbled, the Saints Defense picked it up and ran it in?

 

So there were two Defenses on the field at the same time?