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The real truth about Columbine

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Their rampage put schools on alert for "enemies lists" made by troubled students, but the enemies on their list had graduated from Columbine a year earlier. Contrary to early reports, Harris and Klebold weren't on antidepressant medication and didn't target jocks, blacks or Christians, police now say, citing the killers' journals and witness accounts. That story about a student being shot in the head after she said she believed in God? Never happened, the FBI says now.

 

A decade after Harris and Klebold made Columbine a synonym for rage, new information — including several books that analyze the tragedy through diaries, e-mails, appointment books, videotape, police affidavits and interviews with witnesses, friends and survivors — indicate that much of what the public has been told about the shootings is wrong.

 

In fact, the pair's suicidal attack was planned as a grand — if badly implemented — terrorist bombing that quickly devolved into a 49-minute shooting rampage when the bombs Harris built fizzled.

 

"He was so bad at wiring those bombs, apparently they weren't even close to working," says Dave Cullen, author of Columbine, a new account of the attack.

 

So whom did they hope to kill?

 

Everyone — including friends.

 

What's left, after peeling away a decade of myths, is perhaps more comforting than the "good kids harassed into retaliation" narrative — or perhaps not.

 

It's a portrait of Harris and Klebold as a sort of In Cold Blood criminal duo — a deeply disturbed, suicidal pair who over more than a year psyched each other up for an Oklahoma City-style terrorist bombing, an apolitical, over-the-top revenge fantasy against years of snubs, slights and cruelties, real and imagined.

 

Along the way, they saved money from after-school jobs, took Advanced Placement classes, assembled a small arsenal and fooled everyone — friends, parents, teachers, psychologists, cops and judges.

 

"These are not ordinary kids who were bullied into retaliation," psychologist Peter Langman writes in his new book, Why Kids Kill: Inside the Minds of School Shooters. "These are not ordinary kids who played too many video games. These are not ordinary kids who just wanted to be famous. These are simply not ordinary kids. These are kids with serious psychological problems."

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-0...ine-myths_N.htm

 

I want to check this book out. A lot of shiit didn't make any sense from the git-go. Good thing it only took a decade to get to the truth.

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So the media lied about a gun related issue in order to push an agenda? Say it ain't so.

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So the Fundies lied about a god-related issue in order to push an agenda? Say it ain't so.

 

It's so.

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Maybe most explosive, against the backdrop of the strong suburban Denver evangelical culture, was the story that student Cassie Bernall was killed because of her Christian faith, after she said "yes" when Dylan Klebold asked if she believed in God. The tale simply wasn't true, despite the fact that Bernall's mother, Misty, and the girl's evangelical church launched a campaign around Cassie's martyrdom that culminated in Misty Bernall's moving memoir, "She Said Yes," which wound up on the New York Times bestseller list and won her interviews with "Larry King Live" and "The Today Show."

 

Yes. I mention in the book where her minister — when the truth came out — her youth minister, Dave McPherson, said something like, "You'll never change the story. The church, you know, we've got our story and we're sticking to it."

 

 

http://www.salon.com/books/int/2009/04/06/cullen/index.html

 

Thou shall not lie..

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Maybe I just didn't pay enough attention when it happened but I don't recall Columbine being about Christians. I thought it was about a couple young pyshocpaths that walked in their school and shot a bunch of people for no "real" reason. When did it become a religious issue. I realize that a few groups may try to use things like this to help their agenda, but I think the majority of people look back at it the way I do. :overhead:

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Maybe I just didn't pay enough attention when it happened but I don't recall Columbine being about Christians. I thought it was about a couple young pyshocpaths that walked in their school and shot a bunch of people for no "real" reason. When did it become a religious issue. I realize that a few groups may try to use things like this to help their agenda, but I think the majority of people look back at it the way I do. :overhead:

 

Misty, and the girl's evangelical church launched a campaign around Cassie's martyrdom that culminated in Misty Bernall's moving memoir, "She Said Yes," which wound up on the New York Times bestseller list and won her interviews with "Larry King Live" and "The Today Show."

 

It was one of the first rumours to come out of Columbine. Well that, and the cops reacted bravely. Both have since been thoroughly debunked.

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Has anyone seen Elephant by Gus Van Sant? It's not a historical flick per se, but the movie mirrors the events at Columbine.

 

Really, really good movie. Pretty intense and disturbing though, for the obvious reasons.

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Not sure that if i were the kid, or the parents, that I would give a rats ass about the "why".....focking shot is focking shot...... :(

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whatever happened to those guys

 

Didn't they become actors and star in some movie about a bowling tournament or something?

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Didn't they become actors and star in some movie about a bowling tournament or something?

 

Kingpin?

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I blame Clinton :huh:

 

Speaking of making up stuff to push an agenda Michael Moore said it was the NRA's fault.

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It's so.

As a fundie if you mean someone that believes the bible is fully true, years ago I remember hearing that what happened to Cassie Bernall WAS trumped up. Rachel Joy Scott was the first person shot by the two, and shot four times while on the school lawn. Whether she was intentionally picked out for some reason...I don't know, probably not. What's interesting about her is her diary leading up to that time. She became a Christian, lost a lot of her friends, and wrote a lot that is relevant to a young person thinking about their salvation. She was expressing the urgency of knowing Christ because you don't know how long you're going to be around. The friends she did keep and her artwork back up what was being written in her three journals, never got the impression they were bs. She was just a teenage girl moved by Christ from what I can see and each life that was lost is as tragic...always found her words interesting though.

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Speaking of making up stuff to push an agenda Michael Moore said it was the NRA's fault.

 

The guy that George Foreman knocked out to win the heavyweight title?

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Speaking of making up stuff to push an agenda Michael Moore said it was the NRA's fault.

 

Huh, you'd think the cop who ran away or the 100 other cops standing outside doing their best Reno 911 while kids were being killed would be more culpable... :huh:

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As a fundie if you mean someone that believes the bible is fully true, years ago I remember hearing that what happened to Cassie Bernall WAS trumped up. Rachel Joy Scott was the first person shot by the two, and shot four times while on the school lawn. Whether she was intentionally picked out for some reason...I don't know, probably not. What's interesting about her is her diary leading up to that time. She became a Christian, lost a lot of her friends, and wrote a lot that is relevant to a young person thinking about their salvation. She was expressing the urgency of knowing Christ because you don't know how long you're going to be around. The friends she did keep and her artwork back up what was being written in her three journals, never got the impression they were bs. She was just a teenage girl moved by Christ from what I can see and each life that was lost is as tragic...always found her words interesting though.

 

Given that there are still websites and a NYT Best Seller based upon these lies, you'd have to wonder how Cassie would feel knowing all this was a lie. :lol:

 

But hey, Mom got a fat book deal and got to be on TV. That's all that matters. Ask Joel Osteen. :huh:

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Well I agree that it shouldn't have been circulated if it wasn't true, and getting to the point of a NY Times bestseller based on a lie is pretty crappy.

 

Here's what I'm not as sure about: A student witness, Jason Lapp is the one that claimed Cassy had that exchange. A student that survived says it was with her...and the official investigation concluded that it was actually with her.

 

 

These are apparently transcripts from their video diaries. Link

 

Evidence item #265

Pieced together from the Columbine Report and Time's article dated 12-20-1999 (hard copy and online version).

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Well I agree that it shouldn't have been circulated if it wasn't true, and getting to the point of a NY Times bestseller based on a lie is pretty crappy.

 

Here's what I'm not as sure about: A student witness, Jason Lapp is the one that claimed Cassy had that exchange. A student that survived says it was with her...and the official investigation concluded that it was actually with her.

These are apparently transcripts from their video diaries. Link

 

According to Cullen a girl who was under the table with Bernall said it never happened.

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the official investigation concluded that it was actually with her.

 

Depends upon what you call the "official investigation" - if you'd read the link, that's absolutely false. Of course, the F up Sherriff and his Kangaroo Court handling of the 'investigation' immediately thereafter (to cover his failure) might say differently, but the truth doesn't have an expiration date. The article even says the local paper knew otherwise, but refused to divulge it because of the power of the Evangelicals in Colo. - Check out the quote from the church itself. Still, I wonder what she'd think about all this if she really was a Christian. Is it okay to lie to inspire people? (See: The bible) or would it cause her shame to know her legacy is a lie and her Mom and her church are exploiting that lie - and her?

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Huh, you'd think the cop who ran away or the 100 other cops standing outside doing their best Reno 911 while kids were being killed would be more culpable... :huh:

 

Haven't you heard no one is culpable for any thing any more especially government employees. :lol:

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Haven't you heard no one is culpable for any thing any more especially government employees. ;)

 

...unless you're a teenage girl in some racy photos, or a boneheaded swimmer hitting a bong. Then it's 12,000 news stories, 18,000 op ed pieces and a nationwide apology / flagellation tour of shame. :rolleyes:

 

Brilliant country. :)

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The 'official' investigation concluded it wasn't with Cassie Bernall...so that's established here. When asked to point to where the exchange happened, another witness pointed to where Valeen Schnurr was...who claimed she had the exchange, and the investigation concluded it was her, not Cassie.

 

How the heck do we explain those transcripts (are they fake?) and audio recording of Erick and Dylan talking about Rachel Scot and another girl calling them "godly little whores."

 

Apparently this was all evidence...their basement tapes.

 

I've just always thought Rachel Scott had interesting thoughts for someone who was about to be killed, didn't have a sense one way or another about her being targeted. According to those transcripts they did have lists but also said stuff to their friends in the event some of them would also die in it all.

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Speaking of making up stuff to push an agenda Michael Moore said it was the NRA's fault.

 

:)

 

I haven't seen Bowling For Columbine but my understanding is that Moore tries to portray America's "gun culture" as a major contributing factor. It's interesting that in the follow-up reporting there is very little mention of the supposed obsession with guns from Harris and Klebold, and they actually anticipated that the bombs would do the lion's share of the killing. These guys were inspired by hate, not by guns, and absent guns they still would have found a way to kill people.

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"These are not ordinary kids who were bullied into retaliation," psychologist Peter Langman writes in his new book, Why Kids Kill: Inside the Minds of School Shooters. "These are not ordinary kids who played too many video games. These are not ordinary kids who just wanted to be famous. These are simply not ordinary kids. These are kids with serious psychological problems."

 

:) Glad it takes a shrink to figure out the obvious, cant help but laugh at those who really believe things like video games are the cause

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absent guns they still would have found a way to kill people.

 

Dunno, they kind of sucked at the bomb part apparently. :)

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...unless you're a teenage girl in some racy photos, or a boneheaded swimmer hitting a bong. Then it's 12,000 news stories, 18,000 op ed pieces and a nationwide apology / flagellation tour of shame. :rolleyes:

 

Brilliant country. :)

 

:Doc Holiday: It appears our hypocrisy knows no bounds :Doc Holiday:

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When asked to point to where the exchange happened, another witness pointed to where Valeen Schnurr was...who claimed she had the exchange, and the investigation concluded it was her, not Cassie.

 

How the heck do we explain those transcripts (are they fake?) and audio recording of Erick and Dylan talking about Rachel Scot and another girl calling them "godly little whores."

 

Apparently this was all evidence...their basement tapes.

 

I've just always thought Rachel Scott had interesting thoughts for someone who was about to be killed, didn't have a sense one way or another about her being targeted. According to those transcripts they did have lists but also said stuff to their friends in the event some of them would also die in it all.

 

What does any of that have to do with Cassie?? :)

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:) Glad it takes a shrink to figure out the obvious, cant help but laugh at those who really believe things like video games are the cause

 

Yeah, loved that line. Ya think? :rolleyes:

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What does any of that have to do with Cassie?? :)

 

A survivor, a witness, and the investigation conclude that the exchange did happen, just not with Cassie.

 

We're supposed to be talking about the real truth about Columbine. The article you're linking claims there wasn't specified hatred at play, and there weren't specified targets.

 

Transcripts from the basement videos used as evidence show they did mock certain people for specific reasons.

 

From the OP:

 

So whom did they hope to kill?

 

Everyone — including friends.

 

In the transcripts they mention people specifically, and say stuff about friends of theirs in the event they get shot in the middle of everything. They apparently didn't "hope" to kill everybody (they talk about who they're cool with) but they didn't care who got killed.

 

I'm not talking about Cassie specifically overall...talking about how the article you posted says some stuff that apparently doesn't reconcile with the basement video transcripts.

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Not sure that if i were the kid, or the parents, that I would give a rats ass about the "why".....focking shot is focking shot...... :)

 

Religious freaks usually don't think realistically.

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A survivor, a witness, and the investigation conclude that the exchange did happen, just not with Cassie.

 

:)

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:)

 

:rolleyes:

 

The article wants to dismiss the possible 'killed for being Christian' angle to things, but unless those transcripts are fabricated, it doesn't seem like that should be dismissed. The irony is I've never actually concluded that was an issue the shooters had, but now that an article is saying it wasn't, I'm looking into it and realizing it may have been.

 

They mention Cassie Bernall's story is just that, a story. And that should be mentioned, but they leave out that she was confused with another girl, and what happened is still thought to have happened. Unless I'm missing something ;) And then just generally speaking I don't understand how that article downplays that there were targets when Eric and Dylan did talk about certain people and read off names.

 

You call this post the real truth about Columbine. Read the Transcripts from the Basement Tapes...assuming those are indeed transcripts from the basement tapes. That should contain the real truth.

 

 

Also I never said I was just was talking about Cassie. Why do that...it's not your article's point.

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Meticulous planning

 

What's now beyond dispute — largely from the killers' journals, which have been released over the past few years, is this: Harris and Klebold killed 13 and wounded 24, but they had hoped to kill thousands.

 

The pair planned the attacks for more than a year, building 100 bombs and persuading friends to buy them guns. Just after 11 a.m. on April 20, they lugged a pair of duffel bags containing propane-tank bombs into Columbine's crowded cafeteria and another into the kitchen, then stepped outside and waited.

 

Had the bombs exploded, they'd have killed virtually everyone eating lunch and brought the school's second-story library down atop the cafeteria, police say. Armed with a pistol, a rifle and two sawed-off shotguns, the pair planned to pick off survivors fleeing the carnage.

 

As a last terrorist act, a pair of gasoline bombs planted in Harris' Honda and Klebold's BMW had been rigged apparently to kill police, rescue teams, journalists and parents who rushed to the school — long after the pair expected they would be dead.

 

The pair had parked the cars about 100 yards apart in the student lot. The bombs didn't go off.

 

:)

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They mention Cassie Bernall's story is just that, a story.

 

So first you claim this:

 

Here's what I'm not as sure about: A student witness, Jason Lapp is the one that claimed Cassy had that exchange. A student that survived says it was with her...and the official investigation concluded that it was actually with her.

These are apparently transcripts from their video diaries. Link

 

Then you turn around and say it's not her.

 

THEN you completely ignore my questions about how Cassie would feel about this total scam perpetrated by her mom and church.

 

THEN you try to spin it that it's NOT about her, it's about the overall story.

 

Geesus. :rolleyes:

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"Do you believe in God?" right before the shooting reminds me an awful lot of "Let's roll!" after 9-11.

 

:rolleyes:

 

The person I've seen come even remotely close to heroism (and really he was just doing his job) was Sullenberger.

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So first you claim this:

Then you turn around and say it's not her.

 

THEN you completely ignore my questions about how Cassie would feel about this total scam perpetrated by her mom and church.

 

THEN you try to spin it that it's NOT about her, it's about the overall story.

 

Geesus. :rolleyes:

That's semantics* I never turned around and said something else but you interpreted it that way (which could be my bad). I was also editing that post to give more detail when it was responded to. After noticing it was responded to in that post already, I stated it again (post 25) with more detail.

 

Also in my FIRST post I said I knew what happened to Cassie was trumped up, so I have no reason to be arguing it wasn't if that's my impression right...

 

What you're talking about:

Here's what I'm not as sure about: A student witness, Jason Lapp is the one that claimed Cassy had that exchange. A student that survived says it was with her...and the official investigation concluded that it was actually with her.

 

*A student that survived (so obviously not Cassie) says it was with her (meant her as in who I just mentioned, the student that survived, not Cassie).

 

Also I didn't completely ignore what you said...look at the first part of post 20...that was speaking to it.

 

Not spinning anything. If I was talking just about Cassie..what the heck explains my first post and saying that I didn't think Rachel Scott was targeted...a thought that echoes what's being said in your article. After reading those transcripts and seeing they talked about Rachel Scott, now I think she may have been.

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