Stop comparing Lebron to Jordan

[smashmouths@blf 33]

I keep hearing the media comparing Bron Bron to Jordan. Jordan didn't jump ship in Chicago in the lean years to go play with Stockton and Malone in Utah or Magic and Worthy in LA so he could win a title. He stayed in Chicago and built a dynasty legitimately. The Bulls took their lumps from the Pistons and Celtics for a number of years. Jordan stayed in Chicago. If Lebron stayed in Cleveland and turned the Cavs into a powerhouse then you can compare him to Jordan. He took the easy route via free agency and went to Miami. Lebron is a stud, no doubt. He's the best player in the NBA. Winning an NBA title is very difficult. But he is NOT comparable to Jordan. Rant over.....

[The Moz 69]

I keep hearing the media comparing Bron Bron to Jordan. Jordan didn't jump ship in Chicago in the lean years to go play with Stockton and Malone in Utah or Magic and Worthy in LA so he could win a title. He stayed in Chicago and built a dynasty legitimately. The Bulls took their lumps from the Pistons and Celtics for a number of years. Jordan stayed in Chicago. If Lebron stayed in Cleveland and turned the Cavs into a powerhouse then you can compare him to Jordan. He took the easy route via free agency and went to Miami. Lebron is a stud, no doubt. He's the best player in the NBA. Winning an NBA title is very difficult. But he is NOT comparable to Jordan. Rant over.....

I am a Huge MJ fan and I cannot stand Lebron. If they had a draft right now and both Lebron and MJ were 20 YO -- and the GM's had all the knowledge of the past performance - Don't be shocked if most of the GM's would take Lebron. I hate to say it but there has never been a player - Built like a Power forward and just as strong as one, as fast as a point gaurd, Almost as agile as MJ, and can jump equal to MJ maybe better , and just as good a jumper as MJ if not better at least lately. Yes MJ is the most "Clutch" player and mentally tough player I have ever heard of but Lebron Physically is just better. Thats coming from a guy thats usually first in line to get his glass of Lebron Haterade.

[FeelingMN 273]

Meh....I've grown passed my LeBron hate. Dude has delivered on the court when it's mattered. I give him all the credit in the world for getting to 4 straight finals.

 

MJ still the greatest in my mind....but I have no problem with LeBron being mentioned in the same breath.

 

Who cares who's better or greater or whatever. Just appreciate greatness when you see it.

[Reality 2,710]

Meh....I've grown passed my LeBron hate. Dude has delivered on the court when it's mattered. I give him all the credit in the world for getting to 4 straight finals.

 

MJ still the greatest in my mind....but I have no problem with LeBron being mentioned in the same breath.

 

Who cares who's better or greater or whatever. Just appreciate greatness when you see it.

 

 

LeBron gave Cleveland 7 years, Chicago traded for Pippen 3 years after Jordan got there. Cleveland gave LeBron no choice but to leave, they simply couldn't build a team that could win.

[smashmouths@blf 33]

Meh....I've grown passed my LeBron hate. Dude has delivered on the court when it's mattered. I give him all the credit in the world for getting to 4 straight finals.

 

MJ still the greatest in my mind....but I have no problem with LeBron being mentioned in the same breath.

 

Who cares who's better or greater or whatever. Just appreciate greatness when you see it.

He is great. In my mind he's not as good as Jordan. He took the easy route by going to Miami. I'm pretty sure Jordan never put up 7 measly points in a playoff game either.

[Saint Elistan 106]

Neither one is as good as Kobe.

[BunnysBastatrds 1,913]

I keep hearing the media comparing Bron Bron to Jordan. Jordan didn't jump ship in Chicago in the lean years to go play with Stockton and Malone in Utah or Magic and Worthy in LA so he could win a title. He stayed in Chicago and built a dynasty legitimately. The Bulls took their lumps from the Pistons and Celtics for a number of years. Jordan stayed in Chicago. If Lebron stayed in Cleveland and turned the Cavs into a powerhouse then you can compare him to Jordan. He took the easy route via free agency and went to Miami. Lebron is a stud, no doubt. He's the best player in the NBA. Winning an NBA title is very difficult. But he is NOT comparable to Jordan. Rant over.....

This!!!

[BunnysBastatrds 1,913]

Jordan was the MVP and defensive MVP for a reason. Magic was the only other player to come close. Lebron can play. He's no 23.

[SUXBNME 1,328]

Meh....I've grown passed my LeBron hate. Dude has delivered on the court when it's mattered. I give him all the credit in the world for getting to 4 straight finals.

 

MJ still the greatest in my mind....but I have no problem with LeBron being mentioned in the same breath.

 

Who cares who's better or greater or whatever. Just appreciate greatness when you see it.

Very well said, sir. Couldn't agree more

[rholio 339]

No.

[SUXBNME 1,328]

[The Moz 69]

 

 

Chicago traded for Pippen 3 years after Jordan got there.

I thought Chicago Drafted Pippen

[Reality 2,710]

I thought Chicago Drafted Pippen

 

Seattle drafted Pippen.

[dain11279 927]

If Jordan was that good, he would've won a title with the Wizards

[patweisers44 697]

I am a Pistons fan and was a big basketball fan during the Jordan days. My distain for both Jordan and Lebron is off the charts. Jordan is simply the greatest all around player that ever played the game (i just threw up typing those words).

[JT 137]

I keep hearing the media comparing Bron Bron to Jordan. Jordan didn't jump ship in Chicago in the lean years to go play with Stockton and Malone in Utah or Magic and Worthy in LA so he could win a title. He stayed in Chicago and built a dynasty legitimately. The Bulls took their lumps from the Pistons and Celtics for a number of years. Jordan stayed in Chicago. If Lebron stayed in Cleveland and turned the Cavs into a powerhouse then you can compare him to Jordan. He took the easy route via free agency and went to Miami. Lebron is a stud, no doubt. He's the best player in the NBA. Winning an NBA title is very difficult. But he is NOT comparable to Jordan. Rant over.....

 

So you're talking about the same Jordan that left his franchise and teammates in a lurch while he pursued his ridiculous dream (or to avoid league suspension for gambling as some opine)? There are different ways to jump a ship.

 

Jordan was the best all-round player I've ever seen and had a knack for delivering in the clutch that amazed. Lebron is very comparable; who else, in the history of the game, would you say deserves the comparison more? Magic or Bird, who played with talent that far surpasses what James plays with? Let's not forget that he got an absolutely dismal Cleveland team to the Finals.

Someone mentioned Jordan's defensive prowess and, given the rules of the day, he was fantastic. One reason for that was the upper body strength he built after getting beat up on by Detroit. And he used that strength to be the greatest hand checker the game has ever seen. It would be interesting to see how the perception of his defense changed without the favorable rules, or how Lebron... who is even stronger... could exploit that to be even more dominant on that end of the floor.

 

Guys who cut their teeth on Jordan will always say Jordan. Maybe they're right. But the league has never... never... seen anything like the combination of size, strength, speed and skill that James presents. He's not the bull rushing kid of a few years ago. The guy is a complete player and when you're talking today's star players... not media "stars"... he's by far the best of a very, very short list.

[BunnysBastatrds 1,913]

I am a Pistons fan and was a big basketball fan during the Jordan days. My distain for both Jordan and Lebron is off the charts. Jordan is simply the greatest all around player that ever played the game (i just threw up typing those words).

As a die hard Jordan fan....I understand. I miss those eastern conference finals games between them. Great ball.

[IGotWorms 3,310]

I keep hearing the media comparing Bron Bron to Jordan. Jordan didn't jump ship in Chicago in the lean years to go play with Stockton and Malone in Utah or Magic and Worthy in LA so he could win a title. He stayed in Chicago and built a dynasty legitimately. The Bulls took their lumps from the Pistons and Celtics for a number of years. Jordan stayed in Chicago. If Lebron stayed in Cleveland and turned the Cavs into a powerhouse then you can compare him to Jordan. He took the easy route via free agency and went to Miami. Lebron is a stud, no doubt. He's the best player in the NBA. Winning an NBA title is very difficult. But he is NOT comparable to Jordan. Rant over.....

Agreed.

 

Although I am also over hating Lebron. An announcer said it best the other day: yeah The Decision was an awful, um, decision, but if that's the worst thing he's ever done off the court then it really isn't that bad. That's pretty much how I feel at this point.

 

No question leaving Cleveland to play with Wade and Bosh does hurt his legacy as a competitor though. You don't have to be a hater to recognize that

[NorthernVike 2,080]

NBA

[cbfalcon 824]

 

 

LeBron gave Cleveland 7 years, Chicago traded for Pippen 3 years after Jordan got there. Cleveland gave LeBron no choice but to leave, they simply couldn't build a team that could win.

I am over the Lebron hate. He has mostly made me respect him (unlike Wade).... But this is stupid. His last 3-4 years or so in Cleveland, they were a preseason favorite, and either a 1-2 seed. They were in position every year.

 

People seem to think Lebron was owed a dynasty. Hell, Bosh would have went to Cleveland the year of the decision. That's been stated multiple places. If that happens and they win a couple, I am cool with it.

 

I can objectively look at it and know Lebron is an all time top 5 player. And in terms of ability/talent, he could be number 1. But I'll never respect his titles in the same way I respect Duncan's, Kobe's second run, Dirk's, Wade's first even though it was fixed, Hakeem's, etc etc. There is something special about having a team built around you and carrying it to the promise land, much moreso than simply being seen as a hired gun.

[Sho Nuff 719]

No doubt Jordan is better.

But the bashing of Lebron for going to Miami rather than staying in a crappy town that was not committed to surrounding him with anything is ridiculous.

Sure...Cleveland were favorites in a weak Eastern Conference...because of HIM.

Jordan would not have hung around that situation in today's game waiting for a team to try to put something around him when they continually couldn't do it.

Anyone who says otherwise probably forgets just how competitive he was.

Respect any of Kobe's runs? Why...they kept bringing in people for him because if not, he would have been gone.

 

Duncan maybe...but again, they kept bringing talent and keeping talent around him.

That simply was not happening in Cleveland with Lebron.

[IGotWorms 3,310]

No doubt Jordan is better.

But the bashing of Lebron for going to Miami rather than staying in a crappy town that was not committed to surrounding him with anything is ridiculous.

Sure...Cleveland were favorites in a weak Eastern Conference...because of HIM.

Jordan would not have hung around that situation in today's game waiting for a team to try to put something around him when they continually couldn't do it.

Anyone who says otherwise probably forgets just how competitive he was.

Respect any of Kobe's runs? Why...they kept bringing in people for him because if not, he would have been gone.

 

Duncan maybe...but again, they kept bringing talent and keeping talent around him.

That simply was not happening in Cleveland with Lebron.

Kobe, Duncan and MJ all stayed with their teams. They did not jump ship to join up with a couple other stars who could get them to the title. Huge difference.

 

You mention those teams bringing in talent...OK, Kobe got Shaq in his prime, fair enough. But San Antonio? They were cobbling rejects and European players around Duncan, it's not like they went out and signed a couple super duper stars or anything. Same for MJ in Chicago. Pippen, yes, and then what else? A bunch of decent role players.

[Strike 3,963]

I have no problem with Lebron. His announcement show when he left Cleveland was a little tactless IMO but not that big of a deal. He's a great player but I don't agree that he's some unique physical specimen that has never existed before. Jordan, and Magic for that matter, could get to the rim just as easily as Lebron in their primes. Additionally, Jordan never disappeared the way Lebron did against Dallas. JT mentioned Lebron taking a "horrible" Cleveland team to the finals. IMO Lebron disappeared against one of the least deserving NBA champions I can ever remember. For me, that makes Jordan better unless Lebron does something spectacular for the rest of his career.

[Mungwater 588]

Kobe, Duncan and MJ all stayed with their teams. They did not jump ship to join up with a couple other stars who could get them to the title. Huge difference.

 

You mention those teams bringing in talent...OK, Kobe got Shaq in his prime, fair enough. But San Antonio? They were cobbling rejects and European players around Duncan, it's not like they went out and signed a couple super duper stars or anything. Same for MJ in Chicago. Pippen, yes, and then what else? A bunch of decent role players.

He also had Horace grant for the first three peat and rodman for the second. Both very good players and one is a hall of famer, I wouldn't call them decent role players.

[patweisers44 697]

As a die hard Jordan fan....I understand. I miss those eastern conference finals games between them. Great ball.

The Pistons run in the middle 80s and early 90s was a great time to be a fan. Took a couple years to get past the focking Celtics, then took an extra year to get past the Lakers (BS foul call on laimbeer against focking kareem), then back-to-back titles. All the time holding down jordan and the bulls as long as humanly possible. I have said this before, but the second five on those Bad Boys teams was better than the starting five for probably half the teams in the league.

[FeelingMN 273]

Much better that LeBron be compared to MJ than Harold Miner.

[IGotWorms 3,310]

He also had Horace grant for the first three peat and rodman for the second. Both very good players and one is a hall of famer, I wouldn't call them decent role players.

 

Good players, yes, but each had some weaknesses in their game. Especially Rodman on offense. Without Jordan to bring that altogether those guys wouldn't have amounted to jack in Chicago.

[Sho Nuff 719]

Kobe, Duncan and MJ all stayed with their teams. They did not jump ship to join up with a couple other stars who could get them to the title. Huge difference.

 

You mention those teams bringing in talent...OK, Kobe got Shaq in his prime, fair enough. But San Antonio? They were cobbling rejects and European players around Duncan, it's not like they went out and signed a couple super duper stars or anything. Same for MJ in Chicago. Pippen, yes, and then what else? A bunch of decent role players.

 

They stayed because their teams were surrounding them with other talent.

That is the difference.

 

So Parker and Ginobli are not star players? In what world?

 

As for role players...what do you think there is in Miami? The big 3 and a bunch of role players.

Sure...there are 3 of them rather than just Pippen and Jordan. Then again...you have 2 of the 50 best players ever...do you need a 3rd?

And their role players were more than just decent.

[cbfalcon 824]

We only think Horace Grant was a great player because he was on a team with Michael Jordan. In databasebasketball, here are the players with the highest similarity scores to Grant.

 

Similar Players (Career)

Mike Gminski (945)

Clarence Weatherspoon (939)

Antonio Davis (935)

Antonio McDyess (917)

Thurl Bailey (907)

Vin Baker (900)

Danny Schayes (898)

Armen Gilliam (896)

Kurt Thomas (895)

Jerome Kersey (889)

 

 

If Lebron leads Cleveland to titles, we would be calling some of his spare teammates all time great role players.

[Voltaire 4,557]

The Pistons run in the middle 80s and early 90s was a great time to be a fan. Took a couple years to get past the focking Celtics, then took an extra year to get past the Lakers (BS foul call on laimbeer against focking kareem), then back-to-back titles. All the time holding down jordan and the bulls as long as humanly possible. I have said this before, but the second five on those Bad Boys teams was better than the starting five for probably half the teams in the league.

Vinnie Johnson could sub for Isiah or Dumars at either G position. Meanwhile at SF behind Aguire was Rodman, behind Mahorn at PF was John Salley, and behind Bill Laimbeer was James Edwards. I didn't need to look that up. I can do the same thing with the 1984 Tigers.

 

Nine players in rotation and the expansion draft hit where we could only protect eight. Mahorn was the first player picked by Minnesota.

[BunnysBastatrds 1,913]

We only think Horace Grant was a great player because he was on a team with Michael Jordan. In databasebasketball, here are the players with the highest similarity scores to Grant.

 

Similar Players (Career)

Mike Gminski (945)

Clarence Weatherspoon (939)

Antonio Davis (935)

Antonio McDyess (917)

Thurl Bailey (907)

Vin Baker (900)

Danny Schayes (898)

Armen Gilliam (896)

Kurt Thomas (895)

Jerome Kersey (889)

 

 

If Lebron leads Cleveland to titles, we would be calling some of his spare teammates all time great role players.

Grant was a pivotal player. Great instincts and great team player. knew his role in that complicated triangle offense. BJ and Cartwright made Grant better. Those first three championships were hard earned an there is no way Jordan does it without them. Great defense and coaching earned them those first three titles.

 

I miss that brand of BB so much. I can't watch what's on the floor today because of it. I was a die hard NBA fan from the Bird, Magic, Jordan, era. Never missed the big games.

 

I remember watching regular season games in the early 80's on Saturday nights at midnight on regular TV before cable. Great rivalries durning the regular season when they played the way the game was meant to be played.

[The Moz 69]

Wilt

Big O

 

Bother better than either Bron or MJ

[Mike Honcho 4,023]

And the Lebron/Michael debate is officially over.

[MedStudent 56]

Not a LeBron fan but I think this game bolsters his reputation. The Heat collapsed without him. They are not that great of a team without LeBron and won't win the title unless LeBron carries them on his back. Sorry but you can't play through serious cramps, it becomes literally impossible to use the muscle. They should have concentrated on hydrating these players when the AC went out.

[Strike 3,963]

Not a LeBron fan but I think this game bolsters his reputation. The Heat collapsed without him. They are not that great of a team without LeBron and won't win the title unless LeBron carries them on his back. Sorry but you can't play through serious cramps, it becomes literally impossible to use the muscle. They should have concentrated on hydrating these players when the AC went out.

 

This absolutely HURTS his legacy. Magic posted that now the current players know what it was like to play at the Boston Garden in the 80's. I don't remember any potential GOAT player not playing due to cramps. And he has a history of this. Physical limitations absolutely affect people's perception of players. Lebron will be seen as a player with inferior ability to play with cramps compared to other players of that caliber. Add this to his epic choke against the Mavs and how do you put him in the conversation of GOAT with guys who don't have those notations to their resume's?

[Sho Nuff 719]

Inferior ability to play with cramps.

 

[Strike 3,963]

Inferior ability to play with cramps.

 

 

Word it however you want. What other HOF'er has ever had an issue with cramps? As I mentioned, Magic posted tonight that now the current players have an idea what it was like to play at Boston Garden in the 80's. Are you saying you don't think this will hurt his legacy?

[Sho Nuff 719]

 

Word it however you want. What other HOF'er has ever had an issue with cramps? As I mentioned, Magic posted tonight that now the current players have an idea what it was like to play at Boston Garden in the 80's. Are you saying you don't think this will hurt his legacy?

 

I don't know who had issues with cramps. They affect people different and if a muscle locks up...it happens.

Great...Magic had to play in the hot garden...wonderful. Doesn't mean he may not have had issues tonight.

[SUXBNME 1,328]

Wilt

Big O

 

Bother better than either Bron or MJ

Nope. That is a total apples to newbiejr comparison.

[smashmouths@blf 33]

 

I don't know who had issues with cramps. They affect people different and if a muscle locks up...it happens.

Great...Magic had to play in the hot garden...wonderful. Doesn't mean he may not have had issues tonight.

I guess what annoyed me was his over the top dramatic performance. The pained facial expressions, being physically carried off the court like a sissy soccer player. Laying down on the bench. It was all Oscar worthy. I can't imagine MJ ever acting like that in a game. Bron Bron let his team down and looked like a giant wuss while doing it.