Making a murderer

[parrot 789]

I agree with this theory as well,

 

So the victim's brother and friend found her car on the Avery yard with blood in it and just stayed quiet for a couple days while the Sheriff's department put together a cover story, without knowing whether Theresa was maybe still alive? That of course is just the tip of the iceberg of problems with that theory.

[KSB2424 3,082]

 

So the victim's brother and friend found her car on the Avery yard with blood in it and just stayed quiet for a couple days while the Sheriff's department put together a cover story, without knowing whether Theresa was maybe still alive? That of course is just the tip of the iceberg of problems with that theory.

 

I was thinking the ex boyfriend and/or roommate. Both seemed shady.

 

The roomate waited like 4 days to even report his roomate missing. hmmmmm.

 

And the ex-boyfriend seemed way to creepy. He was the "leader" of this search for her. His ex (that he still loved or else why would he be so involved) living with a male roommate. He even guessed her phone password and listened to messages. hmmmmm :stalkerlalert:

 

I've watched multiple seasons of CSI and Law and Order so I'm a perfect person to smell this one out.

[nzoner 936]

 

So the victim's brother and friend found her car on the Avery yard with blood in it and just stayed quiet for a couple days while the Sheriff's department put together a cover story, without knowing whether Theresa was maybe still alive? That of course is just the tip of the iceberg of problems with that theory.

This is problematic for Colborn because all call and radio transmissions to dispatch are recorded and logged onto the Manitowoc Police server. Andrew Colborn is now operating outside of police protocol at a potential crime scene that he has no official directive to be at. He tells Mike Halbach and Ryan Hillegas to basically STFU about what they found and not mention to anyone that they were ever on the Avery Salvage property that night.

 

 

I see your point especially with the brother seeing the blood but then again and only assuming from watching tv cop shows isn't a door opened for all that evidence to be thrown out if it's reported immediately with no search warrant etc?I really don't know but if the cop said as much to them maybe they went along.

[parrot 789]

This is problematic for Colborn because all call and radio transmissions to dispatch are recorded and logged onto the Manitowoc Police server. Andrew Colborn is now operating outside of police protocol at a potential crime scene that he has no official directive to be at. He tells Mike Halbach and Ryan Hillegas to basically STFU about what they found and not mention to anyone that they were ever on the Avery Salvage property that night.

 

 

I see your point especially with the brother seeing the blood but then again and only assuming from watching tv cop shows isn't a door opened for all that evidence to be thrown out if it's reported immediately with no search warrant etc?I really don't know but if the cop said as much to them maybe they went along.

 

I won't claim to know the legal ins and outs here, but if I'm searching for my missing sister and I find her car with blood in it, I'm throwing up every red flag I can then and there, fruit of any poisonous tree be damned.

 

Calumet Detective Wiegert testified that he called Manitowoc County on the 3rd and either was transferred to Colborn, or Colborn called him back. That much is unclear, but what's not unclear is that Wiegert relayed the particulars of the missing person report to Colborn in his patrol car. Colborn's best guess is that he then called in to verify the info Wiegert gave him. That's a completely plausible explanation for that call. There's no reason to believe Colborn had found Halbach's car.

[nzoner 936]

 

I won't claim to know the legal ins and outs here, but if I'm searching for my missing sister and I find her car with blood in it, I'm throwing up every red flag I can then and there, fruit of any poisonous tree be damned.

 

 

absolutely agree

[tubby_mcgee 686]

He offered a logical explanation in that he was probably confirming information from the missing person call he had received. How does he know it's a 99 by looking at it?

 

Still doesn't make sense why he just wouldn't say that in court. And his reaction in court was definitely strange. He didn't have much of a response after SA's defense attorney played the recording twice. At least not from what the documentary showed. . When flat out asked by the attorney, he couldn't come up with an explanation. At first, the attorney asked him "Where did you get the license plate info?" The cop said "I assume dispatch gave it to me." They then played back the recording again, and the cop then looked very uncomfortable. He didn't offer an explanation...like "I was looking at a missing persons report" . If that were the case, you'd tell the court that with almost instant reaction time. He didn't.

 

 

[tubby_mcgee 686]

I saw this theory on an article and it is the one that I believe...

 

This is a theory I saw on a Youtube comment and I had to share it…

“The police didn’t kill Theresa Halbach. Andrew Colborn located that RAV4 with the assistance of Mike Halbach and Ryan Hillegas who illegally trespassed onto the Avery Salvage Yard on the night of November 3rd 2005. Mike Halbach and Ryan Hillegas suspected something was up since the Avery Salvage Yard was the last place they knew Theresa visited on Oct.31st Halloween day. They went snooping on the property and found the car. They checked the car and found the key in the ignition and blood in the cargo area. Mike or Ryan removed the key from the ignition to ensure that no one could easily move the car off of the Avery property… freaked out about this huge discovery they call the Manitowoc Sheriffs Department. Andrew Colborn fielded the call that night and went out and met Ryan and Mike at the Salvage Yard so he could view the car for himself. Ryan and Mike show him the car and to be certain its Halbachs he “calls” in the plate number to dispatch. Colborn has to “call” in… instead of “radio” in… the plate number to Manitowoc dispatch because he wasn’t in his police cruiser at the moment, but rather on foot and in the “field’ on the Avery Salvage property. This mistake places Colborn at the scene and in contact with Halbachs RAV4… 2 days before it is officially located on November 5th, 2005, by Pam Sturm….

This is problematic for Colborn because all call and radio transmissions to dispatch are recorded and logged onto the Manitowoc Police server. Andrew Colborn is now operating outside of police protocol at a potential crime scene that he has no official directive to be at. He tells Mike Halbach and Ryan Hillegas to basically STFU about what they found and not mention to anyone that they were ever on the Avery Salvage property that night. Ryan or Mike turns the RAV4 key over to Andrew Colborn. Mike and Ryan are told to go home. Andrew Colborn then immediately calls Lt. James Lenk and briefs him about the discovery of the Halbach car and breaches of protocol he committed on the Avery property, also about Ryan Hillegas and Mike Halbach being there. Lt James Lenk realizing that Colborn’s calling in Halbachs plate is a serious mistake with potential consequences orders Andrew Colborn to remove the license plate from Halbach’s car and then report to him immediately.

What James Lenk and Andrew Colborn, or the others for that matter, don’t realize at this point and are completely unaware of is that Bobby Dassey and Scott Tadych have kidnapped, raped, shot and then burned Theresa Halbach in the privacy of the gravel quarry off of Jambo Rd on Halloween evening. They choose to burn her body to dispose of their DNA evidence of the crimes. They hid Halbach’s car in the rear of Avery Salvage and wiped it clean of their prints. I believe it is Scott Tadych’s idea to secretly transport the cremains of Halbach from the gravel quarry and dispose them into Steven Avery’s burn pit. Scott Tadych transports Halbach’s cremains in secret by using one of Barb Jandas burn barrels from her yard. Scott Tadych fails to collect all of Halbach’s cremains from the original burn site in the gravel quarry, thus leaving some behind that FBI investigators later find… but he also fails in making certain all of Halbach’s cremains are out of Barb Jandas burn barrel after dumping them into Steven Avery’s burn pit. This is why investigators found small bits of Halbach in Barb Jandas burn barrel. Thus making a total of three sites where Halbach’s cremains are found. Scott Tadych and Bobby Dassey are unaware that Ryan Hillegas and Mike Halbach have found Theresas car on the property and that Lenk and Colborn are now involved and in play with their scheme.

By shear colossal luck, two completely independent frame jobs targeting one man, Steven Avery were shaping up into the perfect storm. On one front, from Lenk and Colborn regarding the RAV4, ….and on the other unconnected front by Scott Tadych and Bobby Dassey regarding the cremains of Theresa Halbach. One party wasn’t aware of the other’s involvements at any point during the days leading up to the official discovery of Halbach’s RAV4 at the Avery Salvage Yard hence why the investigation and murder trial made zero sense to anyone especially the Jury.

None of the evidence could be connected because it was all unrelated… everybody was guessing. But Buting and Strang had zeroed in on a part of it but couldn’t fully form a solid defense to prove it. The Jury couldn’t conceive that Manitowoc officers could have conspired to kill Theresa Halbach to frame Steven Avery as Ken Kratz insisted they had to if they wanted to follow the theory the defense presented of the frame up of Steven Avery by Manitowoc officials. And Ken Kratz was right… Imagine Scott Tadych’s confused and utter relief when Steve Avery’s blood was found in the Halbach car and the RAV4 key found in Steve Avery’s bedroom….. he must have been like…. WTF?! A quote from Scott Tadych after Steven Avery is convicted of Theresa Halbach’s murder…. “THIS IS THE GREATEST THING TO EVER HAPPEN” ….. We will see Scott, we will see…………………”

This is probably the most credible theory I have come across so far. Notice how the events here not only make logical sense, but they also line up with how many of the parties involved behaved during the documentary i.e how Mike Halbach and Ryan Hillegas seemed like they knew more about what happened than they were leading on. As well as Scott Tadych and Bobby Dassey’s bizarre hostility towards Steven Avery.

I can’t see another theory topping this one personally.

 

 

Wow. That makes more sense than anything I've read thus far.

[tubby_mcgee 686]

 

The problem with talking about reasonable doubt relative to the documentary is that we are shown maybe a couple hours footage of a 5 week trial, with a heavy slant towards the defense.

 

 

But did the "slant" that we all viewed create ANY reasonable doubt? It's not like jury keeps tally marks each time the defense or prosecution comes up with a good point, then they add up the points, and most points win.

 

 

[Herbivore 904]

Very surprised by all of the people in here who believe he is guilty. Not sure if I believe he is innocent, but there seems to be no credible evidence that he is guilty. The prosecution's case is swiss cheese.

[parrot 789]

On 2/16/2016 at 11:31 AM, tubby_mcgee said:

 

 

But did the "slant" that we all viewed create ANY reasonable doubt? It's not like jury keeps tally marks each time the defense or prosecution comes up with a good point, then they add up the points, and most points win.

 

 

I don't think you can know without taking things in in their entirety.

 

On 2/16/2016 at 11:24 AM, tubby_mcgee said:

 

Still doesn't make sense why he just wouldn't say that in court. And his reaction in court was definitely strange. He didn't have much of a response after SA's defense attorney played the recording twice. At least not from what the documentary showed. . When flat out asked by the attorney, he couldn't come up with an explanation. At first, the attorney asked him "Where did you get the license plate info?" The cop said "I assume dispatch gave it to me." They then played back the recording again, and the cop then looked very uncomfortable. He didn't offer an explanation...like "I was looking at a missing persons report" . If that were the case, you'd tell the court that with almost instant reaction time. He didn't.

 

 

 

Have you read the trial transcripts? If you haven't, you don't really know just what he said in court. Don't take the film-makers words for it. He did say something largely to that effect but couldn't remember the exact details. Again, we see maybe 3 hours of a 5 week trial. And don't trust his "reactions" either, they are edited. Colborn is show having the exact same "reaction" at two different points in the questioning.

 

 

[parrot 789]

Very surprised by all of the people in here who believe he is guilty. Not sure if I believe he is innocent, but there seems to be no credible evidence that he is guilty. The prosecution's case is swiss cheese.

Steven Avery called Teresa Halbach to his place, is the last person known to have seen her alive, her burned bones are found behind his house, burned personal items are also found nearby, he had a bonfire on the day she disappeared, his blood and her blood are found in her vehicle which is found on his property, he has a cut on his finger which would account for his blood, no detection of EDTA in the blood, his non-blood DNA is also found on the car, a bullet fired from his gun is found in his garage with her DNA, her car key is found in his bedroom, his nephew testifies to helping clean up a large spill or stain in his garage on the night she disappears.

 

I haven't seen any "credible" reason to believe anyone other than Steven Avery did it.

[Mike Honcho 4,000]

Retired FBI agent is watching each episode and blogging about them. Very interesting insight.

 

http://gmancasefile.com/moore-to-the-story.html

[iam90sbaby 2,120]

Retired FBI agent is watching each episode and blogging about them. Very interesting insight.

 

http://gmancasefile.com/moore-to-the-story.html

 

Reading now, thanks for the link.

[Herbivore 904]

Steven Avery called Teresa Halbach to his place, is the last person known to have seen her alive, her burned bones are found behind his house, burned personal items are also found nearby, he had a bonfire on the day she disappeared, his blood and her blood are found in her vehicle which is found on his property, he has a cut on his finger which would account for his blood, no detection of EDTA in the blood, his non-blood DNA is also found on the car, a bullet fired from his gun is found in his garage with her DNA, her car key is found in his bedroom, his nephew testifies to helping clean up a large spill or stain in his garage on the night she disappears.

 

I haven't seen any "credible" reason to believe anyone other than Steven Avery did it.

 

Reading Honcho's link..but that is a good list on non-credible evidence. as with the bolded, Is there anyone who believe's this was not planted by someone, who maybe wasn't supposed to be there, who in turn found it. Really parrot, each item you listed is flawed, with possible exception to the EDTA.

[parrot 789]

 

Reading Honcho's link..but that is a good list on non-credible evidence. as with the bolded, Is there anyone who believe's this was not planted by someone, who maybe wasn't supposed to be there, who in turn found it. Really parrot, each item you listed is flawed, with possible exception to the EDTA.

You saying the evidence is non-credible doesn't make it so. Most of the so-called flaws are based on speculation and innuendo, nothing factual; resulting in fantasies like the double-simultaneous frame job above necessary for all the pieces to fall in place. The blood evidence in particular is very credible.

[tubby_mcgee 686]

If EDTA is found, it's there. If it isn't found, it doesn't mean it's not there. An expert testified to this. ]

 

 

[KSB2424 3,082]

You saying the evidence is non-credible doesn't make it so. Most of the so-called flaws are based on speculation and innuendo, nothing factual; resulting in fantasies like the double-simultaneous frame job above necessary for all the pieces to fall in place. The blood evidence in particular is very credible.

 

I am in more agreement with you parrot than most but you have to admit there is a lot of fishy stuff and big questions. And maybe - probably those were answered but were not shown on TV. But man, I'd love to know:

 

1. Why the fock was there a needle hole in that DNA tube? LabCorp says they do not use needles in that manner.

 

2. Why was Lenk and the other guy constantly on the case and property when they were told not to be. Or we were told they wouldn't be. And pretty much every piece of key evidence (pun intended) was found by.....Lenk.

 

Those two things in particular still have me wondering and wanted more information.

[parrot 789]

If EDTA is found, it's there. If it isn't found, it doesn't mean it's not there. An expert testified to this. ]

 

 

True, but there's no REASON to believe it is there, and from what I have seen that is a very sensitive test.

[Herbivore 904]

You saying the evidence is non-credible doesn't make it so. Most of the so-called flaws are based on speculation and innuendo, nothing factual; resulting in fantasies like the double-simultaneous frame job above necessary for all the pieces to fall in place. The blood evidence in particular is very credible.

 

It does to me. Do you believe the key was there the whole time?

[parrot 789]

 

I am in more agreement with you parrot than most but you have to admit there is a lot of fishy stuff and big questions. And maybe - probably those were answered but were not shown on TV. But man, I'd love to know:

 

1. Why the fock was there a needle hole in that DNA tube? LabCorp says they do not use needles in that manner.

 

2. Why was Lenk and the other guy constantly on the case and property when they were told not to be. Or we were told they wouldn't be. And pretty much every piece of key evidence (pun intended) was found by.....Lenk.

 

Those two things in particular still have me wondering and wanted more information.

 

Isn't it funny how the vial thing is a "red-letter day for the defense!" then you never hear another thing about it?

 

The hole in the vial is probably the biggest wool-over-your-eyes moment of the whole series; the hole is put there when the blood is drawn. It's called a Vacutainer and the hole is made when the blood is collected. Avery's blood was collected in prison and later tested by Lab Corp. They wouldn't put the hole there because they did the testing not the collection.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aouBFlB71Mg

 

I tend to agree with you on the Lenk thing. They self-identified their conflict of interest but mostly went through the motions in how they conducted the investigation. I don't think there is really any reason to believe he actually planted evidence but they did a pretty sh!tty job of keeping Manitowoc people out of the investigation like they said they would, so they opened the door to a lot of speculation. They made a number of missteps in the investigation, and some strange things occurred (i.e. the appearance of the key) but that doesn't automatically invalidate the mountain of evidence that points squarely at Avery to my mind.

[parrot 789]

 

It does to me. Do you believe the key was there the whole time?

 

Yes. I believe it was probably in the bookcase and fell out at some point during the search and wasn't immediately noticed. I believe this because it doesn't involve attributing actions to third party actors for which there is absolutely no proof.

[Herbivore 904]

 

Yes. I believe it was probably in the bookcase and fell out at some point during the search and wasn't immediately noticed. I believe this because it doesn't involve attributing actions to third party actors for which there is absolutely no proof.

[Mike Honcho 4,000]

Reading now, thanks for the link.

Blog updated, topic is the Bradon confession.

 

http://gmancasefile.com/moore-to-the-story.html

[iam90sbaby 2,120]

Blog updated, topic is the Bradon confession.

 

http://gmancasefile.com/moore-to-the-story.html

 

He actually has a pretty good blog, I wish I could've watched the show with him so to speak, but I added it to my favorite until is comes to a conclusion.

[cyclone24 1,792]

Just finished binging...first off, wow was that great. Much like breaking bad..id pay to have my memory erased to watch that again...

 

Saw this nugget today....avery may go free after all.

 

http://www.unilad.co.uk/video/steven-averys-lawyers-say-he-will-be-free-in-months/

[iam90sbaby 2,120]

Just finished binging...first off, wow was that great. Much like breaking bad..id pay to have my memory erased to watch that again...

 

Saw this nugget today....avery may go free after all.

 

http://www.unilad.co.uk/video/steven-averys-lawyers-say-he-will-be-free-in-months/

 

If he is smart (which he is clearly not if you've watched the show) when he gets out he will GTFO of town this time.

[edjr 5,540]

I just started watching. are there really 10, 50 minute episodes?

 

where the fock do you people find time for this sh1t?

[cyclone24 1,792]

I just started watching. are there really 10, 50 minute episodes?

 

where the fock do you people find time for this sh1t?

Didnt you just post something about CM Punk and Monday Night Raw? That crap is like 3 hours long

[iam90sbaby 2,120]

I just started watching. are there really 10, 50 minute episodes?

 

where the fock do you people find time for this sh1t?

 

How can anyone with over 100,000 posts on a message board say anything about how someone else spends their time? Just saying.

[edjr 5,540]

 

How can anyone with over 100,000 posts on a message board say anything about how someone else spends their time? Just saying.

 

 

 

for the 73rd time.

 

when you catch me making 1 single post when I am not at work, let me know. I don't use personal time for posting.

 

(I figured this would be a good week to watch it from work, the office is fairly empty)

[cyclone24 1,792]

 

 

 

for the 73rd time.

 

when you catch me making 1 single post when I am not at work, let me know. I don't use personal time for posting.

 

(I figured this would be a good week to watch it from work, the office is fairly empty)

Holy fock these are all done AT work??!!!

[edjr 5,540]

Holy fock these are all done AT work??!!!

 

99%

 

and in the last 3 years 100%

 

Maybe after a patriots super bowl win i'll pop on and be obnoxious.

[BLS 313]

 

 

 

for the 73rd time.

 

when you catch me making 1 single post when I am not at work, let me know. I don't use personal time for posting.

 

(I figured this would be a good week to watch it from work, the office is fairly empty)

 

 

I'm glad I'm not your employer.

 

Also, just watch it. It'll make your blood boil.

It's absolutely riveting.

[edjr 5,540]

 

 

I'm glad I'm not your employer.

 

Also, just watch it. It'll make your blood boil.

It's absolutely riveting.

 

i get my work did and then some

[edjr 5,540]

 

It's absolutely riveting.

 

I'm already pissed after 1 episode.

 

The dude has a 70 IQ?

 

Hate watching the tard get picked on and even worse, spend 18 years in jail for it.

 

every single time he did a crime, he plead guilty and fessed up. all of a sudden he turns into a liar? he's too focking stupid to lie

[iam90sbaby 2,120]

 

I'm already pissed after 1 episode.

 

The dude has a 70 IQ?

 

Hate watching the tard get picked on and even worse, spend 18 years in jail for it.

 

every single time he did a crime, he plead guilty and fessed up. all of a sudden he turns into a liar? he's too focking stupid to lie

 

Wait till you meet his even more retarded friend. Thats when sh!t gets really focked up.

[cyclone24 1,792]

I'm interested in Reading that book that was recently published called "indefensible" where it basically rips on the documentary how one-sided it was and that there was plenty of evidence left out of the documentary that was the reasoning behind the guilty verdict.

[Mike Honcho 4,000]

I'm interested in Reading that book that was recently published called "indefensible" where it basically rips on the documentary how one-sided it was and that there was plenty of evidence left out of the documentary that was the reasoning behind the guilty verdict.

 

Obviously, "documentaries" are rarely unvarnished unbiased looks at a subject, and Making a Murder was no different. What footage do you show, which interviews do you show, what don't you show??? After seeing it though I did read up on some of the subjects and did see that the interview technique used against Brandon is pretty much not considered a reliable way of getting real confessions, and does in fact produce false ones.

 

Still, might be interesting to check out the book and see how prosecutor Michael Griesbach presents the other side of the story and what biases he has.

[kutulu 1,541]

I bailed with something like two episodes left... Didn't Brandon recently get released?

[Mike Honcho 4,000]

I bailed with something like two episodes left... Didn't Brandon recently get released?

 

Yes he was ordered released, but an appeal from the state has him in prison still.

 

 

'Making a Murderer's' Brendan Dassey ordered released from prison

 

Duffin overturned Dassey's conviction in August, citing the manner in which the confession was attained. He called it "so clearly involuntary in a constitutional sense that the court of appeals' decision to the contrary was an unreasonable application of clearly established federal law."