Johnny Manziel

[Reality 2,710]

Hands 9 7/8... That's absurd at his height.

[JT 137]

 

 

Who is labeling him as a franchise QB? I haven't seen much of that at all. I don't think he is being hailed as the next big thing. It seems like scouts, GM's, and talking heads are all over the map with Manziel. Yes, he will be the big story of this draft. But that's mainly because people are all over the map on him as a player, and also because of the interest that surrounds him off the field.

 

 

I think anybody discussing him as a Top 5 pick is tacitly saying that he's a franchise QB. Otherwise, why do you make that pick?

 

I've got a couple concerns with Manziel, but the one that would concern me most as a GM is durability. I know injuries can't be predicted, but in college he didn't display a knack for avoiding hits (ie running out of bounds, sliding). Someone notes in this thread how much less he ran this past season, but in the end it didn't keep him on the field.

 

There will always be exceptions, guys who are just destined to be great. Maybe he's one. But I think this QB class as a whole is being over hyped (they are every year it seems). But if I'm running a team and rolling the dice, I'll take 6'4", 230 lb pocket paser Bortles over anyone else on the list.

[Skinny_Bastard 154]

 

I think anybody discussing him as a Top 5 pick is tacitly saying that he's a franchise QB. Otherwise, why do you make that pick?

 

I've got a couple concerns with Manziel, but the one that would concern me most as a GM is durability. I know injuries can't be predicted, but in college he didn't display a knack for avoiding hits (ie running out of bounds, sliding). Someone notes in this thread how much less he ran this past season, but in the end it didn't keep him on the field.

 

There will always be exceptions, guys who are just destined to be great. Maybe he's one. But I think this QB class as a whole is being over hyped (they are every year it seems). But if I'm running a team and rolling the dice, I'll take 6'4", 230 lb pocket paser Bortles over anyone else on the list.

 

You mean 6'5" 230 lbs. He measured 1 inch above his college listed height.

 

Manziel measured a full 1.25 inch below his playing height. Dishonest?

[tanatastic 2,061]

Hes Jake Locker at best.,

[jgcrawfish 232]

 

No, he's not a better scrambler than Vick, and no he doesn't have Vick's arm. But he's far and away superior in the football IQ department, and he doesn't take the stupid hits that Vick does, or that RGIII does. Russell Wilson isn't in the completely indecipherable list of stats you posted, but he does win football games (as much as dislike the Seahawks and particularly a couple of their "fans" on this bored I have to admit it). If you want measureables, Manziel is going to lose out. I'm just telling you what I've witnessed, and I've only seen two players who did things similar to Manziel...Fran Tarkenton and Randall Cunningham. And I've only seen one guy who has the "it" factor like him, Joe Montana. I'm not at all saying he's sure fire...just saying doubt him at your own risk.

 

Even Fran thinks Johnny reminds him of himself...

 

http://msn.foxsports.com/buzzer/story/fran-tarkenton-has-no-doubt-that-johnny-manziel-can-play-in-the-nfl-031114

[DankNuggs 305]

Not a huge fan of this QB class. I don't see how Bortles isn't Gabbert 2.0... Better off trading for Ryan Mallett than drafting a guy like bortles.

[JT 137]

Not a huge fan of this QB class. I don't see how Bortles isn't Gabbert 2.0... Better off trading for Ryan Mallett than drafting a guy like bortles.

 

Not saying they couldn't end up with the same level of success... anything can happen... but Bortles doesn't bear any resemblance to Gabbert imo.

 

Gabbert played 2 seasons in a gimmick offense and never completed more than 63% of his passes (60% career). Bortles has been a 3 year starter in a pro-style offense. His worst comp % is better than Gabbert's best. He has better size (was recruited as a TE). While people talked about Gabbert's athleticism, nobody ever referenced his toughness; Bortles seems to have that. And he's athletic enough to use his legs for positive plays. Played his best in his biggest games.

 

I think Luck is a generational QB. But Bortles looks more like that NFL prototype than any of the more widely known names taken in recent years.

[Buttmonkey 8]

I do win, you're right about that part

Winning between you two is like winning the special olympics. Even though you won - you're still a retard.

[remote controller 133]

Johnny Basketball

 

 

[Reality 2,710]

Not a huge shock to me but, it looks like Johnny has better arm strength than Bortles.

[ralphster 274]

Didn't you read Cosell talking about his lack of strength to drive the ball?

[Skinny_Bastard 154]

Who's the waterboy in the huddle wearing a helmet?

 

Rumor he put on the helmet to get that extra inch...

Dude is tiny.

[iam90sbaby 2,121]

Pretty sure Manziel just cemented himself as the best QB in the draft after his pro day. I wouldn't draft him but we all know how GM's fall in love with players after an impressive pro day. Wouldn't be surprised at all if Texans passed on Clowney for Manziel.

[sirensong 111]

word is that he drove the ball impressively at his pro day. and this is coming from scouts and coaches, not press.

 

 

edit: more word is coming out--according to broaddus at DC.com, manziel uses movement to create torque in order to drive the ball. he still made the pocket throws competently, but not with great drive. only 3 incompletions in 65 throws, and 2 of those were drops. looked good dropping from under center, which everyone was worried about. performed confidently.

[Reality 2,710]

Johnny is elite, more so than other QB in this draft. The teams that need a QB and pass on him will regret it for 10 years.

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

Jaws just moved manziel up his draft board after his pro day. Part of the reason was because he had on his shoulder pads, rib cage protector, and all the rest of his gear. What a fock tard. I dont see how that could have any influence on how a qb is judged.

[ralphster 274]

Moved him from a 4th round pick to a 3rd right?

[sirensong 111]

Jaws just moved manziel up his draft board after his pro day. Part of the reason was because he had on his shoulder pads, rib cage protector, and all the rest of his gear. What a fock tard. I dont see how that could have any influence on how a qb is judged.

 

what i've been hearing is that manziel and his handlers were paying attention to the concerns about his overall ability to perform the tasks required of an NFL QB, so they wanted to make the workout as challenging as possible. that's why they went with pads, working from under center, and concentrating on the full route tree instead of setting up a workout that would showcase his strengths.

 

apparently it made an impression.

[Skinny_Bastard 154]

Pretty sure Manziel just cemented himself as the best QB in the draft after his pro day. I wouldn't draft him but we all know how GM's fall in love with players after an impressive pro day. Wouldn't be surprised at all if Texans passed on Clowney for Manziel.

 

Gino Smith had a GREAT pro day last year.

You need to stop reading Yahoo news.

 

Pro day means absolutely nothing.

[iam90sbaby 2,121]

Johnny is elite, more so than other QB in this draft. The teams that need a QB and pass on him will regret it for 10 years.

 

More like five he'll end up shortening his career the way he plays. That being said I still don't know how any team with a QB need passes on him.

[Skinny_Bastard 154]

We have seen history of Pro-days.

 

They tell you ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about a players potential.

[Skinny_Bastard 154]

 

More like five he'll end up shortening his career the way he plays. That being said I still don't know how any team with a QB need passes on him.

 

I'll take a number of guys before him.

 

The 'media' hype is a bit over the top with this guy. Don't mark me as a hater. I'm not. JFF game is as good as it gets in the collegian level. Anyone that can't see that type of game not translating in the NFL needs to stick their head in a buckle of horse pee.

[JT 137]

word is that he drove the ball impressively at his pro day. and this is coming from scouts and coaches, not press.

 

 

edit: more word is coming out--according to broaddus at DC.com, manziel uses movement to create torque in order to drive the ball. he still made the pocket throws competently, but not with great drive. only 3 incompletions in 65 throws, and 2 of those were drops. looked good dropping from under center, which everyone was worried about. performed confidently.

 

This is what has me concerned. When all the guys around him are bigger and faster than ever before, it's only instinct to turn to what works for you. His body will tell him to move to create that drive. At his size, I don't see that as a recipe for long-term NFL success.

 

From Tim Tebow's SI Pro Day write up: "The motion Tebow debuted Wednesday certainly looks more like a pro motion. Ball cocked near the ear. Quick release. But will he do that when a 300 pounder is chasing him? When he gets tired? That's what NFL GM's want to know, and 45 minutes of throwing at pro day aren't going to answer those questions."

 

Not comparing the two in that Manziel is a far better passer then Tebow was. Point I'm making is that the things that made him a great college player are ingrained in him, and I don't think those things will translate well to the next level.

I can't get excited about completion % at pro days. Those are carefully scripted with routes and receivers you've practiced with and know inside and out.

 

[sirensong 111]

 

This is what has me concerned. When all the guys around him are bigger and faster than ever before, it's only instinct to turn to what works for you. His body will tell him to move to create that drive. At his size, I don't see that as a recipe for long-term NFL success.

 

 

yeah--it doesn't completely damn him, but it shows that he's not a great arm talent. so the question becomes whether or not everything else compensates for this.

[Skinny_Bastard 154]

Whatever team that drafts him, better be prepare to GIVE him the keys to the city.

He just looks like the type of guy that can run a coach/gm out of town.

[edjr 5,547]

:tebow:

[kilroy69 993]

I would not be comfortable taking him as my overall number 1. I would rather gamble on Bortles,bridgewater or even carr.

[IGotWorms 3,302]

IMO Bridgewater should be the first QB taken, followed by Manziel.

 

Bortles, IMO, will struggle to get through his reads and will not handle pressure from an effective pass rush. I think he will bust.

 

Bridgewater has small hands; Manziel is short. Pick your poison there. Honestly small hands is worse than short but I do wonder how Manziel will do in the pro game where it's a lot harder to dance around to create something out of nothing

[kilroy69 993]

I am not so sure small hands is the worse of the 2. The nfl uses the series 1005 football which is smaller and more streamlined.. The college football is a series 1001 that is fatter and filled with more air. If he can grip the fatter ball the slimmer ball should be easier for him.

 

Manziel is not going to grow at this point. He is probably the height he is going to stay. Which means no matter what team he goes to he is going to be shorter than both the offensive and defensive linemen causing him to be forced to roll out. If you have to roll out it seems to me it would cut the field down as you are not going to be rolling out very often on your off handside and it will allow the D to scheme blitz packages to one side. Just my thoughts.

[sirensong 111]

 

Manziel is not going to grow at this point. He is probably the height he is going to stay. Which means no matter what team he goes to he is going to be shorter than both the offensive and defensive linemen...

 

 

almost every QB in the NFL is. average height of QBs is generally the same as interior linemen, and about an inch shorter than OTs and DEs. the thing is, linemen wear helmets. a helmet adds about 1.5" of height to linemen, but it adds nothing to the height of eye for the QB. so almost every QB is functionally shorter than both the OL and the DL in front of him.

 

most QBs look through lanes between linemen rather than looking over the top.

[BobSanders_33 127]

Manziel = Jake Locker + Ghetto Tendencies

[IGotWorms 3,302]

I am not so sure small hands is the worse of the 2. The nfl uses the series 1005 football which is smaller and more streamlined.. The college football is a series 1001 that is fatter and filled with more air. If he can grip the fatter ball the slimmer ball should be easier for him.

 

Manziel is not going to grow at this point. He is probably the height he is going to stay. Which means no matter what team he goes to he is going to be shorter than both the offensive and defensive linemen causing him to be forced to roll out. If you have to roll out it seems to me it would cut the field down as you are not going to be rolling out very often on your off handside and it will allow the D to scheme blitz packages to one side. Just my thoughts.

Drew Brees and Russell Wilson have managed to make it work at the same height as Manziel.

 

IMO the real issue with Manziel is that in college he excelled at letting the play break down and then making something happen. Now you can get big plays that way in the NFL but more often the play breaking down ends in disaster. NFL defenses will be far more disciplined and the average defensive lineman/linebacker much closer to Manziel in speed and athletic ability.

[Donkey 34]

Drew Brees and Russell Wilson have managed to make it work at the same height as Manziel.

 

IMO the real issue with Manziel is that in college he excelled at letting the play break down and then making something happen. Now you can get big plays that way in the NFL but more often the play breaking down ends in disaster. NFL defenses will be far more disciplined and the average defensive lineman/linebacker much closer to Manziel in speed and athletic ability.

That's my concern as well.

[Reality 2,710]

Being reported that Johnny Football had the highest score of any of the top QB's on the wonderlic. Just another reason teams will be making a huge mistake by passing on this guy if QB is a need.

[Skinny_Bastard 154]

Being reported that Johnny Football had the highest score of any of the top QB's on the wonderlic. Just another reason teams will be making a huge mistake by passing on this guy if QB is a need.

 

But history have shown there's no relationship between wonderlic and performance.

 

Too smart and it's an issue.

Too dumb and it's an issue.

[Reality 2,710]

 

But history have shown there's no relationship between wonderlic and performance.

 

Too smart and it's an issue.

Too dumb and it's an issue.

On top of his obvious athleticism I'm guessing most wouldn't have thought he was the smartest also.

[Donkey 34]

On top of his obvious athleticism I'm guessing most wouldn't have thought he was the smartest also.

I wouldn't have guessed either way. But as the previous poster pointed out, there's no relationship between the test and being a good QB.

[Upper Class Trash 67]

Terry Bradshaw scored a 16 on his Wonderlic. Dan Marino and Jim Kelly scored a 15. Cunningham, Culpepper and McNair scored 15, 18 and 15.

 

Alex Smith scored a 40. Sam Bradford a 36. Matt Leinart a 35, Joey Harrington a 32, Patrick Ramsey a 32, Rick Mirer a 32 and David Klingler a 31. Ryan Leaf scored a 27.

 

Blaine Gabbert scored a 42, Christian Ponder a 35, Ricky Stanzi a 30... Drew Henson a 42 and Ryan Fitzpatrick a 48 (although Fitz was reported to have scored the only perfect 50 in NFL history).

 

A.J. Green scored a 10 and Patrick Peterson scored a 9. Cam Newton scored a 21 on his second test. The first one was reportedly so low he took it again.

 

You can find their scores here: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/football/nfl/03/24/wonderlic-test/

 

 

 

This is just my opinion, but I would rather have a guy like Green or Peterson that ONLY know football, but know it to perfection, over someone who scores a 32 on their Wonderlic but don't "live" football. The Wonderlic tells us if the guy taking the test can figure out how many cubic meters of water are in a 12x12 hole. Unless my QB is digging me a well on the field, the Wonderlic is a waste of time and money. You can take the test yourself here: http://footballiqscore.com/ I took the Wonderlic in college and scored a 38. I'm the dumbest person I know.

[Reality 2,710]

Terry Bradshaw scored a 16 on his Wonderlic. Dan Marino and Jim Kelly scored a 15. Cunningham, Culpepper and McNair scored 15, 18 and 15.

 

Alex Smith scored a 40. Sam Bradford a 36. Matt Leinart a 35, Joey Harrington a 32, Patrick Ramsey a 32, Rick Mirer a 32 and David Klingler a 31. Ryan Leaf scored a 27.

 

Blaine Gabbert scored a 42, Christian Ponder a 35, Ricky Stanzi a 30... Drew Henson a 42 and Ryan Fitzpatrick a 48 (although Fitz was reported to have scored the only perfect 50 in NFL history).

 

A.J. Green scored a 10 and Patrick Peterson scored a 9. Cam Newton scored a 21 on his second test. The first one was reportedly so low he took it again.

 

You can find their scores here: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/football/nfl/03/24/wonderlic-test/

 

 

 

This is just my opinion, but I would rather have a guy like Green or Peterson that ONLY know football, but know it to perfection, over someone who scores a 32 on their Wonderlic but don't "live" football. The Wonderlic tells us if the guy taking the test can figure out how many cubic meters of water are in a 12x12 hole. Unless my QB is digging me a well on the field, the Wonderlic is a waste of time and money. You can take the test yourself here: http://footballiqscore.com/ I took the Wonderlic in college and scored a 38. I'm the dumbest person I know.

You left off guys like Brady, Eli, & Rodgers. I wonder why?

[Upper Class Trash 67]

I left them off because they weren't mentioned in the article. I don't know what their numbers are. Brady was mentioned, so I take that back, but not Eli or Rodgers. Brady wasn't all that great. Still good, but not the highest by any stretch. The article also points out the top schools train their students to take the Wonderlic whereas the smaller schools do not. Some people score low simply because they get stuck on a question and don't move on to the next one. You can teach that out of them.

 

I also left off a dozen more guys who scored 35 and above, yet failed to ever do a single thing in the NFL, so if you wish to call me out, please don't be so one-sided. : )