Johnny Manziel

[Skinny_Bastard 154]

Watched a few of his games this year with one of them against LSU.

The hype machine is starting, seeing tons of 'stories' making a case that he's a top 5 pick.

 

Some says he's the best elusive QB ever coming out.

Some says he's got the 'IT' factor.

Some says he's a warrior.

Some says he's got eyes in back of his eyes.

Some says he's 'undefenseable'

 

I see a good player, but not a franchise guy.

[Skinny_Bastard 154]

I see folks out there comparing him to Drew Brees or Russell Wilson.

That's blasphemy to me.

 

Drew Brees is one of the 'GREATEST' passer in the history of the NFL. To mention Johnny Manziel in the same sentence with Drew Brees is pure criminal. Russell Wilson on the other hand got incredible football intelligence. His ability to absorb the playbook quickly is well documented. He's also got the better arm strength to throw the deep bombs.

[IGotWorms 3,297]

College player IMO

[TimmySmith 2,782]

I see a lot of talent and more desire than I may have ever seen in a player. He will absolutely do everything to become an NFL player and his coaches and teammates will love him.

 

I see something like Jeff Garcia.

[giraldi02 470]

College player IMO

Agree 100%

[Raider 84 29]

He has the competitiveness and heart to push himself as a great player, but think it would be hard to draft him as a top 5 pick. He might be the next Wilson or Tebow. I'd lean closer to Wilson.

[Skinny_Bastard 154]

Wilson Or Troy Smith?

[NewbieJr 540]

He has 'great college player' written all over him. For starters, he's a major jerkoff. Secondly, it looks like the kid heaves every pass with everything he has. It is far from effortless. I see arm problems ahead for him. He's also small and weak. The team that wastes a first round pick on this project is going to get itself into a huge hole.

[Skinny_Bastard 154]

He has 'great college player' written all over him. For starters, he's a major jerkoff. Secondly, it looks like the kid heaves every pass with everything he has. It is far from effortless. I see arm problems ahead for him. He's also small and weak. The team that wastes a first round pick on this project is going to get itself into a huge hole.

 

My exact thought.

As good as Wilson was coming out of school, he was picked in the 3rd round. Manziel in the 3rd or 4th round would be a nice pick, but top 10?!?! That's just too much risk.

[BiPolarBear 476]

[quote name="Skinny_Bastard" post="5177244" timestamp="

 

Manziel in the 3rd or 4th round would be a nice pick, but top 10?!?! That's just too much risk.

 

Jerry Jones would trade up and pull the trigger at the speed of light.

[TimmySmith 2,782]

Any report that says he is going top 10 is pure fantasy. There is very little market for QBs in the league right now. Jacksonville might be the only team who needs a QB right away and they are not using their top pick for Manziel. By the time the 3rd round rolls around, he will have many takers.

[Skinny_Bastard 154]

Any report that says he is going top 10 is pure fantasy. There is very little market for QBs in the league right now. Jacksonville might be the only team who needs a QB right away and they are not using their top pick for Manziel. By the time the 3rd round rolls around, he will have many takers.

 

Agree.

 

Then why do all these mock drafts have 5 QB in the first round every year????

Is that why guys like Geno Smith get suckered to attend the 'green room' on draft night?

[treewarden 1]

Please oh please not the Vikings; we've already reached for Ponder

[Skinny_Bastard 154]

Ya..johnny got issues. Ouch! Coming from his Dad too...double ouch!

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/07/30/johnny-manziels-dad-worries-it-could-all-come-unraveled/

 

 

“Yeah, it could come unraveled. And when it does, it’s gonna be bad. Real bad,” Paul Manziel said. “It’s one night away from the phone ringing, and he’s in jail. And you know what he’s gonna say? ‘It’s better than all the pressure I’ve been under. This is better than that.’”

Manziel’s dad also said that his son drinks to deal with stress, and has anger issues that cause concern for the family.

 

Looks like he'll fit right in with the Browns fans. muahahhaa!!

[Mike Honcho 4,007]

 

My exact thought.

As good as Wilson was coming out of school, he was picked in the 3rd round. Manziel in the 3rd or 4th round would be a nice pick, but top 10?!?! That's just too much risk.

 

 

My exact thought.

As good as Wilson was coming out of school, he was picked in the 3rd round. Manziel in the 3rd or 4th round would be a nice pick, but top 10?!?! That's just too much risk.

 

Also, there was no questions about Wilson's arm strength.

[Super Cubs 132]

Comparing him to Brees and Wilson has only to do with size.

[Stewburtx8 67]

Any report that says he is going top 10 is pure fantasy. There is very little market for QBs in the league right now. Jacksonville might be the only team who needs a QB right away and they are not using their top pick for Manziel. By the time the 3rd round rolls around, he will have many takers.

 

 

Houston, Oakland, Jacksonville, and Cleveland should all be in the market for a QB. They all have top 6 picks. Minnesota and Tennessee also have a need at QB, and they both are in the top 10. I think there is a really good chance that 3 or 4 out of Bridgewater, Bortles, Manziel, and Carr go in the first round (and likely in the top 10). They may be a reach, but that's the nature of the NFL (see Blaine Gabbert 8th overall and Christian Ponder 12th overall).

[TimmySmith 2,782]

Houston, Oakland, Jacksonville, and Cleveland should all be in the market for a QB. They all have top 6 picks. Minnesota and Tennessee also have a need at QB, and they both are in the top 10. I think there is a really good chance that 3 or 4 out of Bridgewater, Bortles, Manziel, and Carr go in the first round (and likely in the top 10). They may be a reach, but that's the nature of the NFL (see Blaine Gabbert 8th overall and Christian Ponder 12th overall).

Houston is stuck with Schaub's bloated contract, so I do not see them drafting a QB in the top 10. Oakland, well, you never really know what they might do, but they have wasted many QB draft picks, so I can see them signing McCown or some other FA Veteran. Cleveland still has Weeden for 2 more years, so they might draft a QB, but not in the top 10. Ponder is entering a contract year, so that might work. Tennessee, has both Fitz and Locker signed for another year.

 

All of the situations just do not favor a QB run in the top 10. Bridgewater is the flavor of the day, so I see him going if any does.

[Skinny_Bastard 154]

 

 

Houston, Oakland, Jacksonville, and Cleveland should all be in the market for a QB. They all have top 6 picks. Minnesota and Tennessee also have a need at QB, and they both are in the top 10. I think there is a really good chance that 3 or 4 out of Bridgewater, Bortles, Manziel, and Carr go in the first round (and likely in the top 10). They may be a reach, but that's the nature of the NFL (see Blaine Gabbert 8th overall and Christian Ponder 12th overall).

 

And that's why those team get burn. Taking a QB that early with question marks have high tendency to NOT pan out. Unless that QB is another 'Andrew Luck', the best thing to do is WAIT. Just ask these teams/players...

 

SF/Colin Kaep

Philly/Nick Foles

Seattle/Russell Wilson

Cin/Dalton

[Skinny_Bastard 154]

Houston is stuck with Schaub's bloated contract, so I do not see them drafting a QB in the top 10. Oakland, well, you never really know what they might do, but they have wasted many QB draft picks, so I can see them signing McCown or some other FA Veteran. Cleveland still has Weeden for 2 more years, so they might draft a QB, but not in the top 10. Ponder is entering a contract year, so that might work. Tennessee, has both Fitz and Locker signed for another year.

 

All of the situations just do not favor a QB run in the top 10. Bridgewater is the flavor of the day, so I see him going if any does.

 

Schuab is gone.

[IGotWorms 3,297]

Any report that says he is going top 10 is pure fantasy. There is very little market for QBs in the league right now. Jacksonville might be the only team who needs a QB right away and they are not using their top pick for Manziel. By the time the 3rd round rolls around, he will have many takers.

That may be the dumbest thing I have ever heard. There is ALWAYS a VERY STRONG market for QBs in the NFL. ALWAYS.

 

I don't think Manziel goes in the top 10 or even the first round, but it won't be due to lack of interest in the position.

[Vikings4ever 496]

Houston is stuck with Schaub's bloated contract, so I do not see them drafting a QB in the top 10. Oakland, well, you never really know what they might do, but they have wasted many QB draft picks, so I can see them signing McCown or some other FA Veteran. Cleveland still has Weeden for 2 more years, so they might draft a QB, but not in the top 10. Ponder is entering a contract year, so that might work. Tennessee, has both Fitz and Locker signed for another year.

 

All of the situations just do not favor a QB run in the top 10. Bridgewater is the flavor of the day, so I see him going if any does.

The rookie contracts aren't what they used to be.

 

Schaub has a big contract, but looks like the Texans can save half a million in 2014 by cutting him (or do it after June 1st to split the cap hit over 2 years). None of the rest have overly large contracts. Bottom line is that all those teams need a QB of the future. If they feel Manzel/Carr/Bortles fill that need, they'll take a QB.

[TimmySmith 2,782]

 

Schuab is gone.

Yeah, I was wrong on that one.

[TimmySmith 2,782]

That may be the dumbest thing I have ever heard. There is ALWAYS a VERY STRONG market for QBs in the NFL. ALWAYS.

 

You must not read your own posts. Just because 8 teams always suck enough to desire another QB does not mean they want to spend a ton to get one. Some years the market is big, this year it is not IMO. In fact, I cannot remember a time in the NFL when it was so easy to name everyone's backups and most team's 3rd stringers because there is such a glut.

[IGotWorms 3,297]

You must not read your own posts. Just because 8 teams always suck enough to desire another QB does not mean they want to spend a ton to get one. Some years the market is big, this year it is not IMO. In fact, I cannot remember a time in the NFL when it was so easy to name everyone's backups and most team's 3rd stringers because there is such a glut.

You are waaaaay off the mark here. If you want to win a Super Bowl in today's NFL you need either 1) a marquee quarterback or 2) a good quarterback who gets hot at the right time.

 

Do you really think 32 teams have one of those guys? I'd put the number at more like 12-14, and that may be generous.

[Stewburtx8 67]

That may be the dumbest thing I have ever heard. There is ALWAYS a VERY STRONG market for QBs in the NFL. ALWAYS.

 

I don't think Manziel goes in the top 10 or even the first round, but it won't be due to lack of interest in the position.

 

 

Agree with your first point.

 

I think Manziel will definitely be a first round pick though(someone will trade back in to the first round if he falls), and I think there is a very good chance he goes in the top 10.

[Stewburtx8 67]

Houston is stuck with Schaub's bloated contract, so I do not see them drafting a QB in the top 10. Oakland, well, you never really know what they might do, but they have wasted many QB draft picks, so I can see them signing McCown or some other FA Veteran. Cleveland still has Weeden for 2 more years, so they might draft a QB, but not in the top 10. Ponder is entering a contract year, so that might work. Tennessee, has both Fitz and Locker signed for another year.

 

All of the situations just do not favor a QB run in the top 10. Bridgewater is the flavor of the day, so I see him going if any does.

 

 

Schaub is gone. Weeden and Locker both make less than some backup QB's. Rookie contracts just aren't what they once were. Teams are not "tied down" to a QB they took in the first round within the last few years. Especially with the turnover many of these teams have had in their front office and coaching staffs. If ANY of those teams feel Bortles, Manziel, Carr, etc. are potential franchise guys, they won't hesitate to use a top 10 pick on them.

[Skinny_Bastard 154]

 

 

Agree with your first point.

 

I think Manziel will definitely be a first round pick though(someone will trade back in to the first round if he falls), and I think there is a very good chance he goes in the top 10.

 

I think there's just a ton of buzz after the recent Bowl game with Manziel.

When the Superbowl is over and the focus starts with the combine, his stock will drop. We've seen it many times with QB.

 

Unless you have a bonafide stud coming out, there's really no reason to take a QB in the first round. The league is filled with good signal callers that can win you games given the right circumstances (think this is what timmy was talkinga bout). You can also nab a solid qb project in round 2-6. Why even bother gambling on a kid that lack arm strength, character issues and a bit on the small size. Brees and Wilson are the outliners of the 6 feet tall debate. The truth is, HEIGHT does matter.

 

This analysis proves it.

 

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/content/tall-task-does-height-matter-for-nfl-quarterbacks/22067/

[Reality 2,710]

Love his talent, just don't see him as top 5 pick. His accuracy and elusiveness are underrated tho.

[shovelheadt 60]

I see a guy, who because of his attitude, will have a huge, red bull's eye on him the moment he steps on the field. Every team in the league will make it their priority to knock him down a notch.

[Skinny_Bastard 154]

Love his talent, just don't see him as top 5 pick. His accuracy and elusiveness are underrated tho.

 

Read 79% of his passes are to the primary WR.

 

Now, is that a good thing? Does that mean he has issue reading defense because he can run in the college level.

We all know how QB that can't read defenses and doesn't utilize his 2nd and 3rd option will self destruct easily. I think that's what separate him from the other 2 6 feet super star QBs in the NFL (Brees and Russell). Both of those guys are known to have high NFL IQs. They can pick up many play books really quickly.

[IGotWorms 3,297]

 

I think there's just a ton of buzz after the recent Bowl game with Manziel.

When the Superbowl is over and the focus starts with the combine, his stock will drop. We've seen it many times with QB.

 

Unless you have a bonafide stud coming out, there's really no reason to take a QB in the first round. The league is filled with good signal callers that can win you games given the right circumstances (think this is what timmy was talkinga bout). You can also nab a solid qb project in round 2-6. Why even bother gambling on a kid that lack arm strength, character issues and a bit on the small size. Brees and Wilson are the outliners of the 6 feet tall debate. The truth is, HEIGHT does matter.

 

This analysis proves it.

 

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/content/tall-task-does-height-matter-for-nfl-quarterbacks/22067/

I vehemently disagree.

 

Due to the new rules you can achieve success more easily on a game-to-game basis with a journeyman-type QB.

 

But if you want to actually win a championship, I still think there's only a dozen or so QBs in the league that can get you there.

 

Sure a few of them were drafted in the mid or late rounds (Brady, Wilson), but they are the exception IMO.

[Skinny_Bastard 154]

I vehemently disagree.

 

Due to the new rules you can achieve success more easily on a game-to-game basis with a journeyman-type QB.

 

But if you want to actually win a championship, I still think there's only a dozen or so QBs in the league that can get you there.

 

Sure a few of them were drafted in the mid or late rounds (Brady, Wilson), but they are the exception IMO.

 

No debate here.

Winning a championship is far different than winning games.

[Skinny_Bastard 154]

Btw, here are the list of superbowl QB. One thing that stood out right away. All these guys are Tall pocket passers with either a big arm and uncanny NFL IQ. With that said, i can name 3 different players i would take before Manziel:

 

Bridgewater, Bortles and AJ McCarron.

 

But that's just me.

 

Super Bowl 32. John Elway (Terrell Davis), 0 TDs
Super Bowl 33. John Elway (MVP), 1 TD
Super Bowl 34. Kurt Warner (MVP), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 35. Trent Dilfer (Ray Lewis), 1 TD
Super Bowl 36. Tom Brady (MVP), 1 TD
Super Bowl 37. Brad Johnson (Dexter Jackson), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 38. Tom Brady (MVP), 3 TDs
Super Bowl 39. Tom Brady (Deion Branch), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 40. Ben Roethlisberger (Hines Ward), 0 TDs
Super Bowl 41. Peyton Manning (MVP), 1 TD
Super Bowl 42. Eli Manning (MVP), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 43: Ben Roethlisberger (Santonio Holmes), 1 TD
Super Bowl 44: Drew Brees (MVP), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 45: Aaron Rogers (MVP), 3TDs
Super Bowl 46: Eli Manning (MVP), 1 TD
Super Bowl 47: Joe Flacco (MVP), 3TDs

[TimmySmith 2,782]

You are waaaaay off the mark here. If you want to win a Super Bowl in today's NFL you need either 1) a marquee quarterback or 2) a good quarterback who gets hot at the right time.

 

Do you really think 32 teams have one of those guys? I'd put the number at more like 12-14, and that may be generous.

The qualifications for SB success are quite simple, Big, Tall, Strong Arm, Courage to throw the ball into coverage. So in a way you are correct that few NFL teams have one. However, that does not stop them from loading rosters with so many pretenders that there might be 6 spots for ANY QBs coming out of college this year to make roster. 6 might even be generous. Some years the number might be 15. I do not get why someone who claims to be intelligent cannot understand markets.

[IGotWorms 3,297]

Btw, here are the list of superbowl QB. One thing that stood out right away. All these guys are Tall pocket passers with either a big arm and uncanny NFL IQ. With that said, i can name 3 different players i would take before Manziel:

 

Bridgewater, Bortles and AJ McCarron.

 

But that's just me.

 

Super Bowl 32. John Elway (Terrell Davis), 0 TDs

Super Bowl 33. John Elway (MVP), 1 TD

Super Bowl 34. Kurt Warner (MVP), 2 TDs

Super Bowl 35. Trent Dilfer (Ray Lewis), 1 TD

Super Bowl 36. Tom Brady (MVP), 1 TD

Super Bowl 37. Brad Johnson (Dexter Jackson), 2 TDs

Super Bowl 38. Tom Brady (MVP), 3 TDs

Super Bowl 39. Tom Brady (Deion Branch), 2 TDs

Super Bowl 40. Ben Roethlisberger (Hines Ward), 0 TDs

Super Bowl 41. Peyton Manning (MVP), 1 TD

Super Bowl 42. Eli Manning (MVP), 2 TDs

Super Bowl 43: Ben Roethlisberger (Santonio Holmes), 1 TD

Super Bowl 44: Drew Brees (MVP), 2 TDs

Super Bowl 45: Aaron Rogers (MVP), 3TDs

Super Bowl 46: Eli Manning (MVP), 1 TD

Super Bowl 47: Joe Flacco (MVP), 3TDs

Brees isn't tall, but otherwise yes

[IGotWorms 3,297]

The qualifications for SB success are quite simple, Big, Tall, Strong Arm, Courage to throw the ball into coverage. So in a way you are correct that few NFL teams have one. However, that does not stop them from loading rosters with so many pretenders that there might be 6 spots for ANY QBs coming out of college this year to make roster. 6 might even be generous. Some years the number might be 15. I do not get why someone who claims to be intelligent cannot understand markets.

And I don't understand how someone who claims to understand markets doesn't grasp the concept of "demand." No position is in higher demand, period.

[Skinny_Bastard 154]

Brees isn't tall, but otherwise yes

 

Yes, but he tiptoes his way to 6'4"....

[TimmySmith 2,782]

And I don't understand how someone who claims to understand markets doesn't grasp the concept of "demand." No position is in higher demand, period.

You win, I expect that 20 teams will draft QBs in first 2 rounds. Because of the "demand".

[IGotWorms 3,297]

You win, I expect that 20 teams will draft QBs in first 2 rounds. Because of the "demand".

I do win, you're right about that part