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Santana Moss with McNabb at the helm?

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top 10?

 

top 15?

 

top 20?

 

I'm not sure he's going to know what to do with an accurate QB at the helm.

 

Thoughts?

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I think he'll be a real solid #2 WR with potetial to be a 1A. I could see him catching quite a few deep passes that Campbell used to always over throw and finishing arounf 15.

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I think he'll be a real solid #2 WR with potetial to be a 1A. I could see him catching quite a few deep passes that Campbell used to always over throw and finishing arounf 15.

 

I've owned him in several leagues over the past few years, it frustrated the hell out of me when he would be 5 - 10 yards behind all the DB's and campbell would miss him :wall:

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I've owned him in several leagues over the past few years, it frustrated the hell out of me when he would be 5 - 10 yards behind all the DB's and campbell would miss him :wall:

Yup. It's funny that Santana has always been criticized in fantasy circles because he's inconsistent. For fock's sake, he's played with Pennington, Brunell and Jason Campbell...he's actually done pretty well considering.

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I'm not sure he's going to know what to do with an accurate QB at the helm.

 

Thoughts?

My thought is that the difference between a QB with a 60% career completion percentage and a QB with a 61% career completion percentage isn't going to make that much of a difference.

 

BTW-McNabb's career completion percentage is the lower one (60%). Campbell is actually the more accurate passer, based on stats. One of the biggest flaws in McNabb's game has always been his accuracy.

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My thought is that the difference between a QB with a 60% career completion percentage and a QB with a 61% career completion percentage isn't going to make that much of a difference.

 

BTW-McNabb's career completion percentage is the lower one (60%). Campbell is actually the more accurate passer, based on stats. One of the biggest flaws in McNabb's game has always been his accuracy.

 

After watching him for many years, I don't think it's necessarily his accuracy that's the problem. McNabb fires the ball MUCH harder than most other QB's in the league. Both WR's and defenders have a hard time catching his passes :D

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After watching him for many years, I don't think it's necessarily his accuracy that's the problem. McNabb fires the ball MUCH harder than most other QB's in the league. Both WR's and defenders have a hard time catching his passes :D

How the heck did you get that gay looking avatar?? :shocking:

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My thought is that the difference between a QB with a 60% career completion percentage and a QB with a 61% career completion percentage isn't going to make that much of a difference.

 

BTW-McNabb's career completion percentage is the lower one (60%). Campbell is actually the more accurate passer, based on stats. One of the biggest flaws in McNabb's game has always been his accuracy.

 

Ya, cuz Campell has always dinked and dunked. Do you think it is simply a coincidence that his TEs have always had a lot of receptions? Cooley & Davis come to mind. On the other hand, McNabb has thrown the ball downfield throughout his career. Look at TO, DeSean and sone other no names that he has helped get numbers...Reggie Brown, Pinkston come to mind. All of a sudden this comp% means not too much.

 

With this in mind, Zach Miller should explode this year. In Washington, look for the TEs not to be quite as productive and also look for Moss and EITHER Kelly or Thomas. Both are great late round flyers in redrafts and great bench guys that may turn out to be something in dynasty/keeper formats. Both are 3rd year WRs with a great deal of potential and their development very well could have been slowed by Campell. You just know one of them will be good this year.

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After watching him for many years, I don't think it's necessarily his accuracy that's the problem. McNabb fires the ball MUCH harder than most other QB's in the league. Both WR's and defenders have a hard time catching his passes :D

Uhhh - his accuracy is the problem.

 

I've never seen such a highly-regarded QB consistently hit his WR's feet on a 5 yard drag route.

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McNabb's yards per completion are a noticeable bit higher than Campbell's. McNabb has never been the most accurate passer but he's better than Campbell and produces quite a few more big plays...all this is gonna benefit Moss.

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Uhhh - his accuracy is the problem.

 

I've never seen such a highly-regarded QB consistently hit his WR's feet on a 5 yard drag route.

 

 

I agree with this, which is why these numbers are very misleading. McNabb sux at the short passes, but is a good down field passer. The opposite is true for Campbell. So completion % is not what you should be focused on.

 

I expect Moss to have one of his best years, assuming there is some resemblance of a running game.

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My thought is that the difference between a QB with a 60% career completion percentage and a QB with a 61% career completion percentage isn't going to make that much of a difference.

 

BTW-McNabb's career completion percentage is the lower one (60%). Campbell is actually the more accurate passer, based on stats. One of the biggest flaws in McNabb's game has always been his accuracy.

 

its less about overall accuracy and more about deep ball accuracy.

 

McNabb throws a nice deep ball comapred to what Santana has had to work with.

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Yes i expect a BIG YEAR from Santana :thumbsup:

 

He finally has a QB that can get him the ball. He is an older version of Desean Jackson. Mark him down for 85 catches 1200 yards and 9 TDs :shocking:

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This discussion is making me re-think one of my hardcore rules of ffb...

 

Do not draft Santana Moss OR Lee Evans.

 

(Nice point regarding Zach Miller down there in Oakland (likely) getting plenty of looks from Campbell -- Cooley and Fred Davis combined for 121 targets last season)

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This discussion is making me re-think one of my hardcore rules of ffb...

 

Do not draft Santana Moss OR Lee Evans.

 

 

I drafted them BOTH in a dynasty league that started 2008 :cry: :wall: :doh:

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McNabb sux at the short passes, but is a good down field passer.

didn't mcnabb throw to his te or rb alot? I consider that a damn good short pass history

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Ya, cuz Campell has always dinked and dunked. Do you think it is simply a coincidence that his TEs have always had a lot of receptions? Cooley & Davis come to mind. On the other hand, McNabb has thrown the ball downfield throughout his career. Look at TO, DeSean and sone other no names that he has helped get numbers...Reggie Brown, Pinkston come to mind. All of a sudden this comp% means not too much.

 

With this in mind, Zach Miller should explode this year. In Washington, look for the TEs not to be quite as productive and also look for Moss and EITHER Kelly or Thomas. Both are great late round flyers in redrafts and great bench guys that may turn out to be something in dynasty/keeper formats. Both are 3rd year WRs with a great deal of potential and their development very well could have been slowed by Campell. You just know one of them will be good this year.

/thread

 

You summed up anything I could have added to this conversation. The stats don't tell the whole story.

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Ya, cuz Campell has always dinked and dunked. Do you think it is simply a coincidence that his TEs have always had a lot of receptions? Cooley & Davis come to mind. On the other hand, McNabb has thrown the ball downfield throughout his career. Look at TO, DeSean and sone other no names that he has helped get numbers...Reggie Brown, Pinkston come to mind. All of a sudden this comp% means not too much.

 

OK, I took your suggestion, I looked at the no-names that he has helped get numbers, and suddenly this comp% does have more meaning. Here are Philly's leading receivers with McNabb as QB:

 

2000-Philly leading receiver-Chad Lewis, TE, 69 rec, 735 yards

2001-Philly leading receivers-Duce Staley, RB AND James Thrash, WR, 63 rec (each), 626 and 833 yards

2002-Philly leading receiver-Todd Pinkston, WR, 60 rec, 798 yards

2003-Philly leading receiver-James Thrash, WR, 49 rec, 558 yards

2004-Philly leading receiver-TO, WR, 77 rec, 1200 yards

2005-Philly leading receivers-Westbrook, RB AND LJ Smith, TE, 61 rec (each), 616 and 682 yards

2006-Philly leading receiver-Westbrook, RB, 77 rec, 699 yards

2007-Philly leading receiver, Kevin Curtis, WR, 77 rec, 1110 yards

2008-Philly leading receiver, Desean Jackson, WR, 62 rec, 912 yards

2009-Philly leading receiver, Desean Jackson, WR, 63 rec, 1167 yards

 

7 out of 10 years he had a WR as his #1 receiver (with regards to yards). However, only 3 of those years did that WR break 1000 yards. One of those years was with TO, who is a likely Hall-of-Fame WR, so I don't think it's fair to say that McNabb "made" TO that season.

 

In fact, McNabb's #1 WR has averaged 881 yards and 6.4 TDs.

 

So, I ask you, are those the numbers of a QB who is a "great, accurate" deep-ball passer?

 

BTW-Moss has averaged 1005 yards and 5.4 TDs in his Was career (886 yards and 4.5 TDs if you discount his first, best year in Washington).

 

So can we expect the same amount of yards, but 2 more TDs from Moss with McNabb as his QB? Is that really that big of a jump? What does that make him, a low-end WR2 as opposed to a low-end WR3?

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didn't mcnabb throw to his te or rb alot? I consider that a damn good short pass history

 

Yes, and as was pointed out earlier, he hit them in the foot 40% of the time.

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OK, I took your suggestion, I looked at the no-names that he has helped get numbers, and suddenly this comp% does have more meaning. Here are Philly's leading receivers with McNabb as QB:

 

2000-Philly leading receiver-Chad Lewis, TE, 69 rec, 735 yards

2001-Philly leading receivers-Duce Staley, RB AND James Thrash, WR, 63 rec (each), 626 and 833 yards

2002-Philly leading receiver-Todd Pinkston, WR, 60 rec, 798 yards

2003-Philly leading receiver-James Thrash, WR, 49 rec, 558 yards

2004-Philly leading receiver-TO, WR, 77 rec, 1200 yards

2005-Philly leading receivers-Westbrook, RB AND LJ Smith, TE, 61 rec (each), 616 and 682 yards

2006-Philly leading receiver-Westbrook, RB, 77 rec, 699 yards

2007-Philly leading receiver, Kevin Curtis, WR, 77 rec, 1110 yards.... Brian Westbrook, RB, 90 rec, 771 yds notable statistic

2008-Philly leading receiver, Desean Jackson, WR, 62 rec, 912 yards

2009-Philly leading receiver, Desean Jackson, WR, 63 rec, 1167 yards

 

7 out of 10 years he had a WR as his #1 receiver (with regards to yards). However, only 3 of those years did that WR break 1000 yards. One of those years was with TO, who is a likely Hall-of-Fame WR, so I don't think it's fair to say that McNabb "made" TO that season.

 

In fact, McNabb's #1 WR has averaged 881 yards and 6.4 TDs.

 

So, I ask you, are those the numbers of a QB who is a "great, accurate" deep-ball passer?

 

BTW-Moss has averaged 1005 yards and 5.4 TDs in his Was career (886 yards and 4.5 TDs if you discount his first, best year in Washington).

 

So can we expect the same amount of yards, but 2 more TDs from Moss with McNabb as his QB? Is that really that big of a jump? What does that make him, a low-end WR2 as opposed to a low-end WR3?

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Ok, so Moss has more potential now, but will he be the #1 receiver? Or is Devin Thomas the go-to deep guy?

 

Thomas and Kelly have been weak. Borderline busts. Moss is the only Redskins WR worth drafting. Cooley and Davis will have good years too, but they will lose TDs to each other. Not a good situation.

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OK, I took your suggestion, I looked at the no-names that he has helped get numbers, and suddenly this comp% does have more meaning. Here are Philly's leading receivers with McNabb as QB:

 

7 out of 10 years he had a WR as his #1 receiver (with regards to yards). However, only 3 of those years did that WR break 1000 yards. One of those years was with TO, who is a likely Hall-of-Fame WR, so I don't think it's fair to say that McNabb "made" TO that season.

 

In fact, McNabb's #1 WR has averaged 881 yards and 6.4 TDs.

 

So, I ask you, are those the numbers of a QB who is a "great, accurate" deep-ball passer?

 

BTW-Moss has averaged 1005 yards and 5.4 TDs in his Was career (886 yards and 4.5 TDs if you discount his first, best year in Washington).

 

So can we expect the same amount of yards, but 2 more TDs from Moss with McNabb as his QB? Is that really that big of a jump? What does that make him, a low-end WR2 as opposed to a low-end WR3?

 

The problem with analyzing these stats is that the Eagles have not had great WRs except 2 yrs and AR offense is based on spreading the ball. Also Westbrook has been an integral part of the passing game which took away from the WRs. Since Moss a true #1 WR I expect him to catch a lot of balls plus his speed will help. Devin Thomas might be valuable with McNabb because McNabb waits for the WR to get open rather than throw ahead of them which fits Thomas if he can improve.

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The problem with analyzing these stats is that the Eagles have not had great WRs except 2 yrs

 

But the post I was quoting said " Look at no names that he {McNabb} has helped get numbers."

 

And the point of my post was that he hasn't really helped anyone get numbers, with the exception of Curtis, and MAYBE Jackson (time will tell on that one).

 

Campbell throws a good deep ball, but the offenses he's had to play in didn't utilize that talent, especially under Jim Zorn. Zorn tried to utilize a WCO, which didn't really fit Campbell's (or Moss') talents. If Shanahan uses McNabb and Moss, I could see a decent season out of Moss, but (IMO) it won't be solely due to McNabb's "accuracy."

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I'll draft Moss and/or Kelley - but I won't use them unless they are super sleeper mid-season breakouts. I'll draft them as bench.

 

I live in DC and won't be burned by ANY Redskins this year. Cooley was the last player I gambled on.

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There is no such thing as a really productive 31 year old, short, "speed" WR in the NFL.

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There is no such thing as a really productive 31 year old, short, "speed" WR in the NFL.

Joey Galloway? :dunno:

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So, I ask you, are those the numbers of a QB who is a "great, accurate" deep-ball passer?

You can't really use overall stats to determine his deep ball success. the stats of his top receiver doesnt prove or disprove anything regarding his deep ball.

 

BTW-Moss has averaged 1005 yards and 5.4 TDs in his Was career (886 yards and 4.5 TDs if you discount his first, best year in Washington).

not bad numbers considering his QB's

 

So can we expect the same amount of yards, but 2 more TDs from Moss with McNabb as his QB? Is that really that big of a jump? What does that make him, a low-end WR2 as opposed to a low-end WR3?

jumping 10-12 spots on the WR rankings is pretty significant

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So, I ask you, are those the numbers of a QB who is a "great, accurate" deep-ball passer?
You can't really use overall stats to determine his deep ball success. the stats of his top receiver doesnt prove or disprove anything regarding his deep ball.

Two things: First, if you read the post I responded to, it talks about how McNabb "has thrown downfield throughout his career. Look at the no name receivers he has helped get numbers." These stats clearly refute that as "proof" that McNabb is an accurate downfield passer. He hasn't helped anyone get great numbers, except Curtis, and MAYBE Jackson.

Second, you can use stats to demonstrate deep ball success. Try YPA. McNabb's career YPA is 6.9, Campbell's is 6.6. Not that different, and Campbell has played in offenses that have limited his deep throws, and therefore, his YPA.

 

BTW-Moss has averaged 1005 yards and 5.4 TDs in his Was career (886 yards and 4.5 TDs if you discount his first, best year in Washington).
not bad numbers considering his QB's

Since Moss has been a 'Skin, he has had Mark Brunell and Jason Campbell as his QBs (with the exception of 1 game by Patrick Ramsey in '05, & 3 games by Todd Collins in '07). Those 2 QBs have played 76/80 games during that span. Combined, here are there stats:

76 games, 1426 completions, 2351 attempts, 15699 yards, 6.7 YPA, 86 TD, 52 TD, 3.7% TD%

 

For a season, those would equal= 300/437 for 3305 yards, 18 TD, 10 INT

 

Those aren't bad stats (not great, but not bad, either). What stands out is the # of pass attempts: 437. In those 5 years (05-09), only 11 TEAMS have had fewer attempts in a season. It's not the QBs that held back Santana, it was the system. Campbell has a very strong arm, and throw a nice deep ball. The offenses he's had to run didn't utilize that skill.

 

 

So can we expect the same amount of yards, but 2 more TDs from Moss with McNabb as his QB? Is that really that big of a jump? What does that make him, a low-end WR2 as opposed to a low-end WR3?
jumping 10-12 spots on the WR rankings is pretty significant

Not necessarily. Eddie Royal was the 100th WR in 2009. If he jumped up to 88 in 2010, is that really significant?

 

Let's assume Moss gets 880 yards and 6 TDs with McNabb as his QB. That would have made him around the 26-29th WR (non-PPR) in each of the last 5 years. We're talking about a high-end WR3 here, not top-10, top-15, or even top-20 WR as the OP suggested.

 

McNabb should help Santana, but I don't think he'll make Moss a stud WR.

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In a ppr league my current WRs are:

 

1-S. Rice

2-H. Nicks

3-S. Moss

4-D. Hester

 

So with question marks at both my #1 & #2 (but also some obvious upside) I am counting on Moss to become a top-end #3 WR. Hoping for 75 rec, 1000 yds, 6 tds. I feel these numbers are within reach.

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OK, I took your suggestion, I looked at the no-names that he has helped get numbers, and suddenly this comp% does have more meaning. Here are Philly's leading receivers with McNabb as QB:

 

2000-Philly leading receiver-Chad Lewis, TE, 69 rec, 735 yards

2001-Philly leading receivers-Duce Staley, RB AND James Thrash, WR, 63 rec (each), 626 and 833 yards

2002-Philly leading receiver-Todd Pinkston, WR, 60 rec, 798 yards

2003-Philly leading receiver-James Thrash, WR, 49 rec, 558 yards

2004-Philly leading receiver-TO, WR, 77 rec, 1200 yards

2005-Philly leading receivers-Westbrook, RB AND LJ Smith, TE, 61 rec (each), 616 and 682 yards

2006-Philly leading receiver-Westbrook, RB, 77 rec, 699 yards

2007-Philly leading receiver, Kevin Curtis, WR, 77 rec, 1110 yards

2008-Philly leading receiver, Desean Jackson, WR, 62 rec, 912 yards

2009-Philly leading receiver, Desean Jackson, WR, 63 rec, 1167 yards

 

7 out of 10 years he had a WR as his #1 receiver (with regards to yards). However, only 3 of those years did that WR break 1000 yards. One of those years was with TO, who is a likely Hall-of-Fame WR, so I don't think it's fair to say that McNabb "made" TO that season.

 

In fact, McNabb's #1 WR has averaged 881 yards and 6.4 TDs.

 

So, I ask you, are those the numbers of a QB who is a "great, accurate" deep-ball passer?

 

BTW-Moss has averaged 1005 yards and 5.4 TDs in his Was career (886 yards and 4.5 TDs if you discount his first, best year in Washington).

 

So can we expect the same amount of yards, but 2 more TDs from Moss with McNabb as his QB? Is that really that big of a jump? What does that make him, a low-end WR2 as opposed to a low-end WR3?

 

Well illustrated points and there is a lot of merit to them. ("He made TO" are strong words and of course not accurate, but I do believe he extremely helped D-Jax's quick development.) However, TO and Jackson are the only two WRs that McNabb has ever had that actually deserve legit #1 WR status. In the other years he had arguably the worst WR corps in the league. He distributed the ball to Brown, Pinkston, and others depending on the cast of characters very equally. So looking at ONLY his #1 WR each year is not a fair or accurate gauge on how accurate a downfield passer he has been.

 

The only fair way to do this is to look at his stats on passing plays of 20+ yards or so and compare this to other passers. I am sure this can be done but I do not have the time to partake in this, or do i know exactly what the numbers will tell us. One thing I do know - I have watched him a lot throughout the years and he definately passes the so-called "eye test" in this category. More than simply being accurate, I believe his success can be attributed to his ability to keep plays alive and wait for WRs to get open downfield. This is how certain players put up respectable numbers while playing with him, but not before or after (ie Brown, Pinkston, etc.)

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I don't think it changes Moss's value much. Other than Campbell would throw deep balls into the bleachers all the time, and McNabb doesn't.

 

All of Campbell's stats are bogus though. He's a loser. They lose in the first 3 quarters of every game and he does nothing. Then he pads his stats in the fourth quarter against prevent D's. As a long suffering Skins fan, I have seen the truth behind his stats. Oakland grabbed Campbell based on his stats, and are about to see the truth too. Another bad Oakland move, shocker.

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Two things: First, if you read the post I responded to, it talks about how McNabb "has thrown downfield throughout his career. Look at the no name receivers he has helped get numbers." These stats clearly refute that as "proof" that McNabb is an accurate downfield passer. He hasn't helped anyone get great numbers, except Curtis, and MAYBE Jackson.

Second, you can use stats to demonstrate deep ball success. Try YPA. McNabb's career YPA is 6.9, Campbell's is 6.6. Not that different, and Campbell has played in offenses that have limited his deep throws, and therefore, his YPA.

 

I would have given more credibility to the stats if you had listed YPC of those WR's or McNabbs YPA which you are now listing. Simple stats don't tell a damn thing about what kind of throws were made. Thats all I was getting it. It wasn;t to say you were wrong or the person you quoted was wrong, just that the stats don't tell much of anything relative to the arguement.

 

 

Since Moss has been a 'Skin, he has had Mark Brunell and Jason Campbell as his QBs (with the exception of 1 game by Patrick Ramsey in '05, & 3 games by Todd Collins in '07). Those 2 QBs have played 76/80 games during that span. Combined, here are there stats:

76 games, 1426 completions, 2351 attempts, 15699 yards, 6.7 YPA, 86 TD, 52 TD, 3.7% TD%

 

For a season, those would equal= 300/437 for 3305 yards, 18 TD, 10 INT

 

Those aren't bad stats (not great, but not bad, either). What stands out is the # of pass attempts: 437. In those 5 years (05-09), only 11 TEAMS have had fewer attempts in a season. It's not the QBs that held back Santana, it was the system. Campbell has a very strong arm, and throw a nice deep ball. The offenses he's had to run didn't utilize that skill.

 

Moss has had good years and down years. He had a "down year" last year. I think the point in taking a chance on him is expecting a better year with McNabb under center. Certainly the new system doesn;t hurt either. Moss hated Jim Zorn.

 

 

 

Not necessarily. Eddie Royal was the 100th WR in 2009. If he jumped up to 88 in 2010, is that really significant?

 

Let's assume Moss gets 880 yards and 6 TDs with McNabb as his QB. That would have made him around the 26-29th WR (non-PPR) in each of the last 5 years. We're talking about a high-end WR3 here, not top-10, top-15, or even top-20 WR as the OP suggested.

 

McNabb should help Santana, but I don't think he'll make Moss a stud WR.

 

By your own words, it could make Moss a low end #2 instead of a low end #3. That is 10-12 spots higher in most fantasy football leagues. Pretty significant. As a low end WR2 you would be around 20th-24th overall.

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Two things: First, if you read the post I responded to, it talks about how McNabb "has thrown downfield throughout his career. Look at the no name receivers he has helped get numbers." These stats clearly refute that as "proof" that McNabb is an accurate downfield passer. He hasn't helped anyone get great numbers, except Curtis, and MAYBE Jackson.

Second, you can use stats to demonstrate deep ball success. Try YPA. McNabb's career YPA is 6.9, Campbell's is 6.6. Not that different, and Campbell has played in offenses that have limited his deep throws, and therefore, his YPA.

 

I would have given more credibility to the stats if you had listed YPC of those WR's or McNabbs YPA which you are now listing. Simple stats don't tell a damn thing about what kind of throws were made. Thats all I was getting it. It wasn;t to say you were wrong or the person you quoted was wrong, just that the stats don't tell much of anything relative to the arguement.

 

I listed the WR's number of receptions AND their yardage. YPC is a simple calculation that anyone could have done if they wanted to know it. The reason I didn't originally list the YPA for McNabb is because I was addressing a specific point made by another poster; that McNabb has "gotten numbers" for "no name" WRs. The stats (of his WRS that I posted) show that he really hasn't, at least not numbers that are super impressive.

 

 

Since Moss has been a 'Skin, he has had Mark Brunell and Jason Campbell as his QBs (with the exception of 1 game by Patrick Ramsey in '05, & 3 games by Todd Collins in '07). Those 2 QBs have played 76/80 games during that span. Combined, here are there stats:

76 games, 1426 completions, 2351 attempts, 15699 yards, 6.7 YPA, 86 TD, 52 TD, 3.7% TD%

 

For a season, those would equal= 300/437 for 3305 yards, 18 TD, 10 INT

 

Those aren't bad stats (not great, but not bad, either). What stands out is the # of pass attempts: 437. In those 5 years (05-09), only 11 TEAMS have had fewer attempts in a season. It's not the QBs that held back Santana, it was the system. Campbell has a very strong arm, and throw a nice deep ball. The offenses he's had to run didn't utilize that skill.

 

Moss has had good years and down years. He had a "down year" last year. I think the point in taking a chance on him is expecting a better year with McNabb under center. Certainly the new system doesn;t hurt either. Moss hated Jim Zorn.

 

Moss' year last year wasn't much "worse" than his career average. He had 70/902/3 last year. He has averaged 67/995/6 over his career (since he became a regular starter, in his 3rd year). Maybe McNabb will improve his numbers, but AGAIN, I doubt he'll make Moss a top-10, top-15, or top-20 WR.

 

 

 

Not necessarily. Eddie Royal was the 100th WR in 2009. If he jumped up to 88 in 2010, is that really significant?

 

Let's assume Moss gets 880 yards and 6 TDs with McNabb as his QB. That would have made him around the 26-29th WR (non-PPR) in each of the last 5 years. We're talking about a high-end WR3 here, not top-10, top-15, or even top-20 WR as the OP suggested.

 

McNabb should help Santana, but I don't think he'll make Moss a stud WR.

 

By your own words, it could make Moss a low end #2 instead of a low end #3. That is 10-12 spots higher in most fantasy football leagues. Pretty significant. As a low end WR2 you would be around 20th-24th overall.

 

Not by my own words. I ASKED, "What does that make him, a low-end WR2 as opposed to a low-end WR3?" The answer is it would make him a high to mid-range WR3. Again, not a stud WR, by any means. I hope I'm wrong, since I'm a 'Skins fan, but I'm not sure McNabb is going to make a huge difference.

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Houston Texans,

 

1. there is also a difference between YPC and YAC which is a factor in determining deep ball success. im not knocking you, so relax.. im just saying the number your originally listed cant really be used in a debate on McNabbs long ball prowess. Youd need to dig deeper.

 

 

2. Last year was close to his average but he has had better seasons is my point. Hes had 6+ td seasons before. 1000 yard seasons, 75+ catch seasons. Point is, he is capable of better than 2009. 3 TD's is a down year.

 

3. In PPR formats in 2009, Moss was high to mid #3... i don't see him doing any worse in 2010 with a better QB and coaching.

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Houston Texans,

 

1. there is also a difference between YPC and YAC which is a factor in determining deep ball success. im not knocking you, so relax.. im just saying the number your originally listed cant really be used in a debate on McNabbs long ball prowess. Youd need to dig deeper.

 

Why do I need to dig deeper? No offense, but you've said "McNabb throws a better deep ball than Campbell," (or something to that effect) but haven't really proven that assertion.

 

Also, you yourself have stated that the 'Skins offense wasn't that good. I agree. Campbell wasn't afforded the opportunity to throw deep much. That doesn't mean he couldn't. Perhaps Shanahan will allow McNabb to go deep more often, like Reid did. That doesn't mean he's got a better, accurate deep ball, just that his offense(s) allowed him to throw it.

 

 

2. Last year was close to his average but he has had better seasons is my point. Hes had 6+ td seasons before. 1000 yard seasons, 75+ catch seasons. Point is, he is capable of better than 2009. 3 TD's is a down year.

 

I never said he's not capable of it, however, it's important to note that his average was skewed upward by his monster first year with Was. That's the only other time he's put up big yardage numbers. Also, while 3 TDs is a down year, 6 TDs is a big year for him, so expecting more than that might not be wise.

 

3. In PPR formats in 2009, Moss was high to mid #3... i don't see him doing any worse in 2010 with a better QB and coaching.

 

High to mid-3 is hardly top-10, 1op-15, or top-20, which as I've repeatedly said is unlikely, and that's what the OP asked.

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What's with my title being changed? :dunno:

 

I specifically said McNafro! :mad:

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What's with my title being changed? :dunno:

 

I specifically said McNafro! :mad:

Prolly got changed since he's McBaldyo. :unsure:

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