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UPDATE: Cousins not signing in Washington? - Cousins Gets Franchise Tag


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#41 Kent

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 05:23 PM

Washington's woes aren't bcoz of Cousins.. You guys have a really good qb and are insistent on creating drama where there isn't any... If Snyder had a clue he'd realize that the lack of a running game and the inability to stop anybody on defense are much bigger problems... You guys gave all that $$ to mouth Norman - when you should of given it to Cousins.


But Norman has played like an elite corner.

I know all the other problems. If Kirk asked for very good QB money this is a different conversation. He's asking for max QB money. Is he worth that? Probably not.
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#42 weepaws

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 07:40 PM

Based on what some teams call a Qb maybe he is worthy.

Last season he ranked third in passing yards and thirteen in td passes and eighth in pct.

In 2015 he ranked, tenth in passing yards and twelfth in tds and first in pct.

He is without question the biggest offensive threat the Redskins have.

#43 polecatt

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 08:37 PM

Cousins still can get a good bit better too. He's just started for two seasons.

It's not at all unusual for a QB to continue improving well into their careers.

A potential physical decline shouldn't happen before the end of a contract.

Give Cousins 2-3 more seasons in a consistent HC-OC situation and some decent personnel moves and I could easily see leading a top notch offense.



#44 weepaws

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 10:46 PM

If I was a Redskins fan I would very happy to have him back.

But as a ff fan I would have liked for him to have ended up with the Texans and Combo him with Hopkins.

#45 Cruzer

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 09:43 AM

But Norman has played like an elite corner.

Meh, not really.

 

The highest paid CB in the league, the so-called "Elite" corner didn't even follow the other team's best wr most of the time... His grades were inflated and hid by covering the 2nd and 3rd wrs on the other team.. Then there was all the penalties - Norman led the league in CB flags.. You could of paid a fraction of what you did for a guy who covers 2nd wrs and how gets flagged damn near every game... A terrible use of $50m so far.  



#46 Kent

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 10:43 AM

Meh, not really.
 
The highest paid CB in the league, the so-called "Elite" corner didn't even follow the other team's best wr most of the time... His grades were inflated and hid by covering the 2nd and 3rd wrs on the other team.. Then there was all the penalties - Norman led the league in CB flags.. You could of paid a fraction of what you did for a guy who covers 2nd wrs and how gets flagged damn near every game... A terrible use of $50m so far.  

??? He's one of if not the best corners in the league. And he's BY FAR the best defensive and pretty much best player we have. What more do you want for the money? This ain't the Albert Haynesworth acquisition.

Norman also had ZERO help with a pass rush. Our D line blows. Our linebackers blow.

Norman was a great signing and a gift from Carolina. Ask the Carolina Defense how important he was. They fell off a cliff last year.
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#47 Cruzer

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 01:25 PM

Norman also had ZERO help with a pass rush. Our D line blows. Our linebackers blow.
 

Hey - what do you expect? When you're shelling out $15m a year for a corner who covers #2 wrs - the rest suffers.

 

Don't get me wrong - I'm enjoying the train wreck in Washington. I hope they continue to mess with Cousins head and I hope they continue to spend ridiculously like they do for corners.



#48 ralphster

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Posted 04 March 2017 - 11:41 PM

He is without question the biggest offensive threat the Redskins have.

 

Djax?  Really?

 

Garcon and Reed would beg to disagree.  Crowder would chime in with legit points to make as well.  


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#49 weepaws

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Posted 05 March 2017 - 12:31 AM

Did you notice i mention Qb.

We where have a discussion about the Redskins Qb.

Not about the Redskins Wr.

And since it looks like both D jax and Garçon will be leaving soon, I would say after Cousins I would go with J Reed when he's healthy.

#50 killersquids

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Posted 06 March 2017 - 08:36 AM

Reports out of Washington are the Skins offered Cousins $20 mil/year, which his agent promptly turned down.  The speculation is that the deal will need to be at least $24 mil/year, which is what he's getting paid this year on his franchise tag.  As a skins fan, I hope they can meet in the middle, around $22 mil/year.  Cousins gets top 5 money and the skins aren't as crippled.

 

I'm with Kent on this one, if they have to pay him $24 mil/year, take it or leave it, I'm on the fence.  Ultimately, I think I'd pay it, because you need a QB to win (unless you have the top defense in the league).  He's an above average QB, who could easily make his way into the top 10.  In a year or two, this deal will look much better with other top 10 QBs getting new deals.



#51 weepaws

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Posted 06 March 2017 - 09:01 AM

I think you have to pay him, he's the franchise at this moment.

It depends on where the Redskins want to go, if they want to rebuild and start over or stay on track.

#52 TBayXXXVII

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Posted 06 March 2017 - 02:42 PM

I think you have to pay him, he's the franchise at this moment.

It depends on where the Redskins want to go, if they want to rebuild and start over or stay on track.

 

If they want to rebuild and start over, they need to trade him before the draft.  If they don't give in to his financial demands, they'll lose him and only get a 3rd round pick in 2019.  This is what happens when you hedge your bet too long.  At some point, the player will be holding all the cards and you're forced to cave in or cut ties.  The Redskins are playing with fire and they will be burned.  They've forced themselves into a no-win situation.



#53 Ray_T

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Posted 06 March 2017 - 03:06 PM

 

If they want to rebuild and start over, they need to trade him before the draft.  If they don't give in to his financial demands, they'll lose him and only get a 3rd round pick in 2019.  This is what happens when you hedge your bet too long.  At some point, the player will be holding all the cards and you're forced to cave in or cut ties.  The Redskins are playing with fire and they will be burned.  They've forced themselves into a no-win situation.

true.

 

although we also dont yet know what Cousins demands are.

 

he seems like the money hungry type.   If hes asking for 24+ Mil per year, that would explain why he is on the block.   I truly dont think he is worth that much cash.

 

but 20-21 mil seems to be where the market is for this type of player.   It may even be worth it for them to jump him into the 22 mil range if they really believe in him. 

 

but right now only 2 QB make 24M or more.   that is Luck and Brees.    The next highest salary is Flacco at 22.1 mil, and I would argue he is overpaid, but he does have a superbowl ring and he is proven at least to be a winner.

 

Rodgers is #4 at 22 mil.

 

I think 22 mil is the top end of what this guy is worth.  pay much more, and you cripple your teams salary structure. 

 

If he is asking for 24 or 25 mil, then I dont blame the team for shopping him (or franchising him again)


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#54 weepaws

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Posted 06 March 2017 - 08:18 PM

Tbay your right on, I agree and thanks.

They need to get this move right.

I would think his value to them would be worth the price.

But I'm not involved so I don't know.

#55 DocNiner

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Posted 06 March 2017 - 10:45 PM

Yeah, I believe he could become a 49ers but he MAY want to rethink that, & I'm a 9ers fan. Don't think it's the best scentrio for the #6 QB from 2016. Yeah Shanny may improve his game but who's he gonna throw to? Jeremy Kerley. They better get more than that. Hyde should help him & he should be playing from behind for sure giving him chances to pad his stats. Just don't like the fit. He's better off staying in D.C.

#56 Kent

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Posted 06 March 2017 - 11:09 PM

Hey - what do you expect? When you're shelling out $15m a year for a corner who covers #2 wrs - the rest suffers.
 
Don't get me wrong - I'm enjoying the train wreck in Washington. I hope they continue to mess with Cousins head and I hope they continue to spend ridiculously like they do for corners.


What a hot garbage post.
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#57 Kent

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Posted 06 March 2017 - 11:22 PM

 
If they want to rebuild and start over, they need to trade him before the draft.  If they don't give in to his financial demands, they'll lose him and only get a 3rd round pick in 2019.  This is what happens when you hedge your bet too long.  At some point, the player will be holding all the cards and you're forced to cave in or cut ties.  The Redskins are playing with fire and they will be burned.  They've forced themselves into a no-win situation.


The Skins aren't playing with fire. The team that pays him what he's asking is getting all the fire. He's a very good QB. Is he a super bowl elite type QB? No. He's not carrying a team like the elite guys. But some team is gonna pay him elite money and it's going to burn them. He misses wide open guys constantly. He simply doesn't see them.
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#58 DocNiner

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Posted 06 March 2017 - 11:32 PM

If Cousins goes to the 49ers, my team & I hope not because of Shanny, he might as well start a Port-a-Potty business cause that's where his carer will end up,lol.

#59 Cruzer

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Posted 07 March 2017 - 09:38 AM

What a hot garbage post.

Since 2000 the Skins have all of 2 Division titles. And one of those (the recent one) everybody under the sun knows you backed into bcoz Romo went down. You want to deny that? Fine, keep your head in the sand.... As a matter of fact, since 2000, the Skins have more dead ass last 4th place Division finishes than anything else..... That franchise is a mess and it doesn't appear to be doing anything to change the current situation. You want to call it a hot garbage post, fine - whatever helps you sleep at night... I'll live in reality - and the reality is the Skins are a train wreck.



#60 Kent

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Posted 07 March 2017 - 12:00 PM

Since 2000 the Skins have all of 2 Division titles. And one of those (the recent one) everybody under the sun knows you backed into bcoz Romo went down. You want to deny that? Fine, keep your head in the sand.... As a matter of fact, since 2000, the Skins have more dead ass last 4th place Division finishes than anything else..... That franchise is a mess and it doesn't appear to be doing anything to change the current situation. You want to call it a hot garbage post, fine - whatever helps you sleep at night... I'll live in reality - and the reality is the Skins are a train wreck.


You're all over the map.
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#61 Cruzer

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Posted 07 March 2017 - 01:37 PM

You're all over the map.

I noticed your last 2 post have had "hot garbage" and "all over the map".. I'd guess I'd go with that too in lieu of going with any thing substantive..

 

More last place Divisional finishes since 2000 than anything else, no running game, and overpaid porous defense - and a qb who you keep jerking around... Like I said, don't get me wrong - I love the Washington way of doing things.



#62 TBayXXXVII

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Posted 07 March 2017 - 03:21 PM

The Skins aren't playing with fire. The team that pays him what he's asking is getting all the fire. He's a very good QB. Is he a super bowl elite type QB? No. He's not carrying a team like the elite guys. But some team is gonna pay him elite money and it's going to burn them. He misses wide open guys constantly. He simply doesn't see them.

 

I think you're really over simplifying Cousin's things.  Since the start of the 2000 season, Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Eli Manning, Joe Flacco, and Russell Wilson have combined to win 6 Super Bowls.  No one would call any of them more than a "very good QB"... in fact, no one would call Dilfer or Johnson that.  Yet, they do account for one-third of the championships this century.  No, he may not "carry" a team to a Super Bowl, but neither did those 5... they were the QB (some "very good"), who's defense carried them to the Super Bowl.



#63 TBayXXXVII

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Posted 07 March 2017 - 03:29 PM

true.

 

although we also dont yet know what Cousins demands are.

 

he seems like the money hungry type.   If hes asking for 24+ Mil per year, that would explain why he is on the block.   I truly dont think he is worth that much cash.

 

but 20-21 mil seems to be where the market is for this type of player.   It may even be worth it for them to jump him into the 22 mil range if they really believe in him. 

 

but right now only 2 QB make 24M or more.   that is Luck and Brees.    The next highest salary is Flacco at 22.1 mil, and I would argue he is overpaid, but he does have a superbowl ring and he is proven at least to be a winner.

 

Rodgers is #4 at 22 mil.

 

I think 22 mil is the top end of what this guy is worth.  pay much more, and you cripple your teams salary structure. 

 

If he is asking for 24 or 25 mil, then I dont blame the team for shopping him (or franchising him again)

 

I don't disagree that he may be asking for too much, but that's because the Skins jerked him around too long.  Had they tried to work out a deal after he took over the starting job, they most likely wouldn't be in this situation.  Had they gone to him after the 2014 season and offered him something like a 7 year $120M deal, I think he'd have signed and the team probably would be heading in an entirely different direction.

 

If they feel he's asking for too much and they don't want to pay him, then they need to trade him in the next 8 weeks.



#64 Kent

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Posted 07 March 2017 - 06:44 PM

I noticed your last 2 post have had "hot garbage" and "all over the map".. I'd guess I'd go with that too in lieu of going with any thing substantive..
 
More last place Divisional finishes since 2000 than anything else, no running game, and overpaid porous defense - and a qb who you keep jerking around... Like I said, don't get me wrong - I love the Washington way of doing things.


Your posting turned into hot garbage and jumped all over the map. Start a Redskins bashing thread and I'll jump in there to agree with you on much of it. For now, in this thread, your true purpose seems to be doosh bag. I'll pass on the discourse.
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#65 Ray_T

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Posted 07 March 2017 - 07:28 PM

 

I don't disagree that he may be asking for too much, but that's because the Skins jerked him around too long.  Had they tried to work out a deal after he took over the starting job, they most likely wouldn't be in this situation.  Had they gone to him after the 2014 season and offered him something like a 7 year $120M deal, I think he'd have signed and the team probably would be heading in an entirely different direction.

 

If they feel he's asking for too much and they don't want to pay him, then they need to trade him in the next 8 weeks.

Really they shouldnt have offered him the starting gig until after he signed an extension.    The way I'd have done it at the time:  RGIII is our starting QB, but he hasnt thrilled us.  You could replace him.   If you sign this here contract extension, we will make you the starter.  Instead they offered him the job waited for his contract to expire, and lost all their leverage.

 

pretty dumb way to do it.

 

now Cousins is gonna put the screws to them (financially).   Washington managment gets exactly what they deserve.


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#66 Cruzer

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Posted 08 March 2017 - 08:57 AM

Your posting turned into hot garbage and jumped all over the map. Start a Redskins bashing thread and I'll jump in there to agree with you on much of it. For now, in this thread, your true purpose seems to be doosh bag. I'll pass on the discourse.

Not at all.. What happened was I started talking about the management and makeup of the Skins and you got butt hurt bout it.

 

Speaking of - you've still not discussed anything of substance regarding the Skins and their current direction. I'm not sure if that's out of convenience or what - but it's clearly noticeable.. You guys now are facing the prospect of losing Garcon and DJax - does anybody in that camp have a plan?  



#67 TBayXXXVII

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Posted 08 March 2017 - 08:59 AM

Really they shouldnt have offered him the starting gig until after he signed an extension.    The way I'd have done it at the time:  RGIII is our starting QB, but he hasnt thrilled us.  You could replace him.   If you sign this here contract extension, we will make you the starter.  Instead they offered him the job waited for his contract to expire, and lost all their leverage.

 

pretty dumb way to do it.

 

now Cousins is gonna put the screws to them (financially).   Washington managment gets exactly what they deserve.

 

I don't think you could've done that either because Cousins hadn't really done anything to prove he's worth a certain amount.  They should have given him a 7-year deal after that season ended and not franchised him.  They could've given him a Brock Osweiler type deal then.  You give him the first 2 years guaranteed and then he's easily replaced (financially).  Right now they'd essentially have him for 5 continuous 1-year deals.



#68 Cruzer

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Posted 08 March 2017 - 09:14 AM

now Cousins is gonna put the screws to them (financially).   Washington managment gets exactly what they deserve.

As an outsider looking in - this is what it looks like what has happened with Washington/Cousins:

 

 

* Wash was in love with RGIII and the prospect of him being a triple threat qb.

* Wash was never in love with Cousins, his arm, or the prospect that he was the 'man'.

* Wash viewed Cousins as a stop gap - thinking the next "big thing" was on the way.

* Wash sent Cousins out there with a half ass offensive line, no running game and a Swiss cheese defense - expecting him to be the 2nd coming of Sonny Jurgesen, performing miracles.

* When this team failed, nobody in management had the sense to see it wasn't Cousins as the problem - of if they did, didn't have the stones to sell it to Snyder.



#69 DankNuggs

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Posted 08 March 2017 - 10:57 AM

Garcon going to SF. Would give Cousins a lot of comfort following him

Bruins > Habs


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#70 Kent

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Posted 08 March 2017 - 10:58 AM

Charlie Casserly's recent mock draft has the Niners offering a bunch of 1st round picks for Cousins and the Skins picking second.

Highly unlikely but I'd be all for it.
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#71 TBayXXXVII

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Posted 08 March 2017 - 01:34 PM

Charlie Casserly's recent mock draft has the Niners offering a bunch of 1st round picks for Cousins and the Skins picking second.

Highly unlikely but I'd be all for it.

 

A "bunch"?  I'd offer a 1st and 3rd this year and a 2nd next year.  That should be enough to get it done.



#72 Frozenbeernuts

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Posted 08 March 2017 - 01:36 PM

Garcon going to SF. Would give Cousins a lot of comfort following him


Garcon is a good receiver imo. His numbers should have been better if Cousins was soon good. Cousins is better than average but he is no super star qb.

#73 Kent

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Posted 08 March 2017 - 01:58 PM

Hoyer to the Niners. Cousins a Skin for one more season.
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#74 TBayXXXVII

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Posted 08 March 2017 - 02:38 PM

Is it me or do people have an unrealistic view of Kirk Cousins?  In his first 2 years as a starter, his numbers aren't much different than some other guy who's considered "elite".

 

Kirk Cousins: 68.3 comp pct / 9,083 yards / 54 TD's / 23 Int's / 99.3 passer rating

"Some other guy": 64.2 comp pct / 8,472 yards / 58 TD's / 20 Int's / 98.5 passer rating

 

 

B.t.w., that "some other guy" is Aaron Rodgers.



#75 weepaws

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Posted 08 March 2017 - 02:40 PM

Lol Tbay awsome job.

#76 Ray_T

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Posted 08 March 2017 - 09:19 PM

Hoyer to the Niners. Cousins a Skin for one more season.

I dont think Hoyer is a significant enough signing where I'd say this wont happen.

 

I think Hoyer is a nice insurance policy.  Nothing more.


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#77 ralphster

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 08:06 AM

Is it me or do people have an unrealistic view of Kirk Cousins?  In his first 2 years as a starter, his numbers aren't much different than some other guy who's considered "elite".
 
Kirk Cousins: 68.3 comp pct / 9,083 yards / 54 TD's / 23 Int's / 99.3 passer rating
"Some other guy": 64.2 comp pct / 8,472 yards / 58 TD's / 20 Int's / 98.5 passer rating
 
 
B.t.w., that "some other guy" is Aaron Rodgers.


this is good stuff. is the data taken from arog's first 2 years as a starter?
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#78 Kent

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 11:39 AM

this is good stuff. is the data taken from arog's first 2 years as a starter?


Arog also had an awful defense and no running game and dragged them kicking and screaming into the playoffs. Which is why he makes elite money.
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#79 dcgangstas

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 11:40 AM

Mort's saying that Cousins asked Snyder directly for a trade. 

 

http://www.rotoworld...FL:topheadlines



#80 TBayXXXVII

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 12:35 PM

this is good stuff. is the data taken from arog's first 2 years as a starter?

 

Yes, just like Cousins.  Now, Cousins did have about 400 pass attempts in his first 3 years in the league, from 9 starts, so one would think he should have been ahead of Rodgers who only had like 60 in his first 3 years.  Well, Cousins was a bit ahead of Rodgers... but he also had a crappier OLine, crappier RB's, and a coaching staff/ownership who never really believed in him.

 

Rodgers numbers were taken from 2008-2009 (drafted in 2005), and Cousins from 2015-2016 (drafted in 2012).