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#1 Ray_T

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 12:05 PM

http://www.nfl.com/n...jimmy-garoppolo

 

 

I know lots of teams are wanting Garoppolo, but I'm just wondering....

Brady is 40 this year.

 

why wouldnt the pats look into keeping him.

 

I know Brady says he wants to play to 45, but that's not likely realistic.   If this kid is as good as we've heard (and to a lesser extent seen)  

 

Why dont the pats keep him and trade Brady next year at the age of 41?

 

I know Brady put up some very good numbers last year, but realistically, at the age of 41 (the age he would be when Garoppolo becomes a free agent) how many years do you really think he has left?

 

I really think the smart move is to keep Garoppolo and if Brady starts to show his age(or gets hurt), make the switch.

 

While Brady's skills still seem to be fine, the more likely scenario at this age is that he gets hurt rather seriously.  Injury kills careers at this age just as much as any decline in skill level.

 

I would think that unless they are offered a kings ransom, The pats may actually hold Jimmy G.

 

Of course they may have had some realistic conversations with Brady regarding how much longer he wants to play.  I'm sure the comments to the press are not the same comments made privately in the confines of Belichick's office.

 

Just a thought.   It's like the Farve situation all over again.   Only Brady hasnt slowed down yet.


3 keeper, 12 team league Standard scoring with QB getting -1 pt for an interception & fumbles 5 points for a defensive safety & 6 points for a defensive TD.

Start 2 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 Kicker, one Def/Sp Tms

 

 

 

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#2 Frozenbeernuts

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 12:43 PM

The Pats are looking into keeping Garoppolo. It's why the latest reports say they will not trade Jimmy without a handsome return. I think the smartest move is to keep him since I believe he is probably legit, and he is the 1st backup the Pats have drafted since Brady who didn't absolutely suck.

It's the unknown of how much longer will Brady play. No one, including Brady knows when his skills will diminish enough to where he is a liability. Even then, does Brady want to keep playing? Are the Pats going to tell him no?

So keeping Garoppolo requires paying two qbs starter money. Or they lose him after this year and get nothing in return. If I was pretty damn sure Brady would play for another two years at least, which it would be an absolute shocker if he didn't play past this year, I am doing everything I can to get the most out of a Garoppolo trade.

Sure in a perfect world they keep a potential franchise qb locked up. It's just really hard to do. If any team could do it, it would be the Pats, but then they have to get into a bidding war with other teams next year, which makes it a big roll of the dice whether they can retain him at all. Probably not if some team is willing to pay him starter money and actually let him start.

#3 weepaws

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 01:22 PM

Like the way the Patriots are handling this issue, sale him high or just keep him.

Was thinking about the Steelers with Big Ben.

They might think about moving him, and start getting ready for their next Qb.

#4 kilroy69

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 01:35 PM

Because realistically if Brady falls again they have been shown to be able to be run by Jacoby beef brisket. He could step in as number 2 easy. And then they would draft another garappalo
Its still not a hummingbird.

#5 Frozenbeernuts

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 02:04 PM

Because realistically if Brady falls again they have been shown to be able to be run by Jacoby beef brisket. He could step in as number 2 easy. And then they would draft another garappalo


Jacoby looked terrible passing the ball and they did lose to Houston when he couldn't complete a forward pass. I would hope they aren't all that confident in him.

#6 kilroy69

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 02:28 PM

I think they could develop him for sure. Not as a Brady level QB but certainly as a Kaepernick level qb
Its still not a hummingbird.

#7 Oriole8159

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 02:50 PM

I'll be impressed if Pats are able to get a first for him, but what people forget is that draft year was one of the deepest in years and the pats had a chance to draft Jarvis Landry or Preston Brown with that same 2nd rd pick. Imagine either of those two in NE for 4 years, a system which is tailor made to make players with their skill sets into stars. Either of those guys would have easily returned first round value for them already, so it's by no means a great move to instead use that pick on a QB that only saw game action 6 times, even if they can trade him this year for a first round pick.

 

It's great value to flip a 7th rd pick like Cassel for future 2nd rd pick, it's not great value though to take a 2nd rd pick and move it for a first 3 years down the road.


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#8 Frozenbeernuts

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 03:28 PM

Adam Schefter is saying the Pats aren't even shopping Garoppolo. They never were shopping him. He says the Browns could offer their first two picks and a 2nd, and it still wouldn't matter.

#9 Oriole8159

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 03:32 PM

Adam Schefter is saying the Pats aren't even shopping Garoppolo. They never were shopping him. He says the Browns could offer their first two picks and a 2nd, and it still wouldn't matter.

 

and I would agree with that, even with what I said above about not agreeing with the pick at the time.

they've come this far though; they owe it to themselves to at least hold on as long as possible. They clearly can get by without having another first round pick, as hey haven't gotten any production out of the first round in the past 2 drafts anyway. Far more valuable to keep him.

 

Imagine if GB just couldn't think about Favre not finishing his last 2 years in GB, and let Rodgers leave instead.


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#10 Ray_T

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 03:40 PM

I'll be impressed if Pats are able to get a first for him, but what people forget is that draft year was one of the deepest in years and the pats had a chance to draft Jarvis Landry or Preston Brown with that same 2nd rd pick. Imagine either of those two in NE for 4 years, a system which is tailor made to make players with their skill sets into stars. Either of those guys would have easily returned first round value for them already, so it's by no means a great move to instead use that pick on a QB that only saw game action 6 times, even if they can trade him this year for a first round pick.

 

It's great value to flip a 7th rd pick like Cassel for future 2nd rd pick, it's not great value though to take a 2nd rd pick and move it for a first 3 years down the road.

He's worth a first for sure.

 

the question for me is whether he is worth a mid first round pick or a high first round pick.

 

My guess is they wont unload him for anything less than a High first rounder, but I could be wrong. (wouldn't be the first time)

 

Is it an option for the pats to rewrite his contract to pay him more this year, and then sign an extension for another two years at a modest rate (for cap management purposes)

 

so if he's making 1 mil, they could (in theory) rewrite the current contract to pay him 6 mil this year, then sign a 2 year extension at 12 mil per year.   This would give him an effective salary of 14.5 mil per year over the next 2 years, but that salary is actually spread over 3 years because he is already under contract for a mil this year.

 

I dont know if this is even allowed, but if it is, it would be a clever way to lock him up while waiting for Brady to decline as a player.


3 keeper, 12 team league Standard scoring with QB getting -1 pt for an interception & fumbles 5 points for a defensive safety & 6 points for a defensive TD.

Start 2 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 Kicker, one Def/Sp Tms

 

 

 

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#11 Frozenbeernuts

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 03:47 PM

He's worth a first for sure.
 
the question for me is whether he is worth a mid first round pick or a high first round pick.
 
My guess is they wont unload him for anything less than a High first rounder, but I could be wrong. (wouldn't be the first time)
 
Is it an option for the pats to rewrite his contract to pay him more this year, and then sign an extension for another two years at a modest rate (for cap management purposes)
 
so if he's making 1 mil, they could (in theory) rewrite the current contract to pay him 6 mil this year, then sign a 2 year extension at 12 mil per year.   This would give him an effective salary of 14.5 mil per year over the next 2 years, but that salary is actually spread over 3 years because he is already under contract for a mil this year.
 
I dont know if this is even allowed, but if it is, it would be a clever way to lock him up while waiting for Brady to decline as a player.


Yes I am sure it's legal, and I was thinking the same thing. If I am serious about Jimmy, lock him up for 2 more years.

#12 Ray_T

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 03:51 PM

Yes I am sure it's legal, and I was thinking the same thing. If I am serious about Jimmy, lock him up for 2 more years.

I was questioning whether it was legal because they do have the rookie cap.   If teams were allowed to pay more than what was allowed under the rookie cap rules, then you would see rookies sitting to try to get a better deal.

 

as I'm pretty sure this is a rookie contract, I'm not sure this kind of thing is actually allowed.


3 keeper, 12 team league Standard scoring with QB getting -1 pt for an interception & fumbles 5 points for a defensive safety & 6 points for a defensive TD.

Start 2 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 Kicker, one Def/Sp Tms

 

 

 

Also expert Fly Fisherman and story teller.


#13 Frozenbeernuts

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 04:20 PM

I was questioning whether it was legal because they do have the rookie cap.   If teams were allowed to pay more than what was allowed under the rookie cap rules, then you would see rookies sitting to try to get a better deal.
 
as I'm pretty sure this is a rookie contract, I'm not sure this kind of thing is actually allowed.


Yeah maybe not this year, but I'm sure they can negotiate a contract extension now.

#14 BobSanders_33

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 04:32 PM

Adam Schefter is saying the Pats aren't even shopping Garoppolo. They never were shopping him. He says the Browns could offer their first two picks and a 2nd, and it still wouldn't matter.


I find that hard to believe. If the Pats could get Garrett a top cb or lb and and another QB prospect in the second or would be too rich.

#15 weepaws

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 06:18 PM

I don't buy it, just another decoy by the Patriots.

They don't need to trade him, so I think their just playing the wait and see game.

Once again the Patriots are in a good spot.

#16 nobody

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 08:23 PM

so if he's making 1 mil, they could (in theory) rewrite the current contract to pay him 6 mil this year, then sign a 2 year extension at 12 mil per year.   This would give him an effective salary of 14.5 mil per year over the next 2 years, but that salary is actually spread over 3 years because he is already under contract for a mil this year.

 

 

I don't get your math...

 

Under your re-written contract his salary would be:

2017 7 million (assuming you're trying to give him 6 mil on top of his 1 mil)

2018 12 million

2019 12 million

 

That would put his average salary over the next two years 9.5 million. 

 

If he hit the open market, he'd probably sign for at least 18 million per year.  Probably 20ish.  Why not make your million this year, and test the open market as an unrestricted free agent.  He'd probably end up making more money that way. 



#17 nobody

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 08:24 PM

I think the Pats just keep him, and "encourage" Brady to retire after this year.



#18 Ray_T

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 08:41 PM

 

I don't get your math...

 

Under your re-written contract his salary would be:

2017 7 million (assuming you're trying to give him 6 mil on top of his 1 mil)

2018 12 million

2019 12 million

 

That would put his average salary over the next two years 9.5 million. 

 

If he hit the open market, he'd probably sign for at least 18 million per year.  Probably 20ish.  Why not make your million this year, and test the open market as an unrestricted free agent.  He'd probably end up making more money that way. 

ok, you got it all wrong.

 

Not that it matters because there are various permutations and combinations that can work.

 

in my example you add 5 mil to his 1 mil for his final year of his contract so that he has 6 mil total this year.

 

he signs a 2 year, 24 mil contract extension as well.

 

effectively what you are doing is taking that 5 mil you added to this years salary (which the team is not obligated to give) and split it between the 2 remaining years. effectively making the deal the equivalent of 2 years 29 mil or 14.5 mil per year.

 

the increase in this years salary makes up for the lower base salary on the next contract.   so he is effectively being paid like a low to mid range starter but hes getting 5 mil 1 year early for salary cap reasons.

 

assuming this is actually allowed, this is a pretty good way to retain him.


3 keeper, 12 team league Standard scoring with QB getting -1 pt for an interception & fumbles 5 points for a defensive safety & 6 points for a defensive TD.

Start 2 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 Kicker, one Def/Sp Tms

 

 

 

Also expert Fly Fisherman and story teller.


#19 Ray_T

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 08:47 PM

I think the Pats just keep him, and "encourage" Brady to retire after this year.

it's hard to encourage a player to retire if hes lighting it up.

 

Brady just won a super bowl and if it wasnt for the suspension, he would have had a very huge year.

 

if they think he can win them another superbowl if he stays, then he will stay.

 

unlike the Farve situation where Green Bay wasn't likely to win a superbowl with him at the Helm.

 

If brady gets them anywhere close to another superbowl, he will play another year (if he wants to)


3 keeper, 12 team league Standard scoring with QB getting -1 pt for an interception & fumbles 5 points for a defensive safety & 6 points for a defensive TD.

Start 2 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 Kicker, one Def/Sp Tms

 

 

 

Also expert Fly Fisherman and story teller.


#20 Oriole8159

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 08:48 PM

ok, you got it all wrong.

 

Not that it matters because there are various permutations and combinations that can work.

 

in my example you add 5 mil to his 1 mil for his final year of his contract so that he has 6 mil total this year.

 

he signs a 2 year, 24 mil contract extension as well.

 

effectively what you are doing is taking that 5 mil you added to this years salary (which the team is not obligated to give) and split it between the 2 remaining years. effectively making the deal the equivalent of 2 years 29 mil or 14.5 mil per year.

 

the increase in this years salary makes up for the lower base salary on the next contract.   so he is effectively being paid like a low to mid range starter but hes getting 5 mil 1 year early for salary cap reasons.

 

assuming this is actually allowed, this is a pretty good way to retain him.

 

you need to remember that this guy has been sitting for 3 years now making diddly squat, and getting zero endorsements because he's behind an all time great.

now you want him to commit to sitting another 3 years for significantly less money than he could get as a starter elsewhere, and still not get endorsements probably.

 

I know there's value in thinking you're the heir apparent to Tom Brady, but that's a whole lot to ask of a guy. I can't imagine agreeing to that.


My Team

 

M RYAN

D MURRAY, T COLEMAN, s. ware, d martin, d. henry, farrow, powell, starks (IR)

A BROWN, M EVANS, DEZ

J REED, delanie

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#21 Oriole8159

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 09:02 PM

He's worth a first for sure.

 

the question for me is whether he is worth a mid first round pick or a high first round pick.

 

My guess is they wont unload him for anything less than a High first rounder, but I could be wrong. (wouldn't be the first time)

 

Is it an option for the pats to rewrite his contract to pay him more this year, and then sign an extension for another two years at a modest rate (for cap management purposes)

 

so if he's making 1 mil, they could (in theory) rewrite the current contract to pay him 6 mil this year, then sign a 2 year extension at 12 mil per year.   This would give him an effective salary of 14.5 mil per year over the next 2 years, but that salary is actually spread over 3 years because he is already under contract for a mil this year.

 

I dont know if this is even allowed, but if it is, it would be a clever way to lock him up while waiting for Brady to decline as a player.

I actually don't think he's worth a first.

with him being owed a huge contract after this next year, potential stigma of being on a NE offense, and with the limited in game experience under his belt, there's a lot of negatives that pull down his value.

 

doesn't mean they may not ultimately end up getting a first, but I just don't think he's worth it.


My Team

 

M RYAN

D MURRAY, T COLEMAN, s. ware, d martin, d. henry, farrow, powell, starks (IR)

A BROWN, M EVANS, DEZ

J REED, delanie

FORBATH

BALTIMORE


#22 Ray_T

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 09:24 PM

 

you need to remember that this guy has been sitting for 3 years now making diddly squat, and getting zero endorsements because he's behind an all time great.

now you want him to commit to sitting another 3 years for significantly less money than he could get as a starter elsewhere, and still not get endorsements probably.

 

I know there's value in thinking you're the heir apparent to Tom Brady, but that's a whole lot to ask of a guy. I can't imagine agreeing to that.

I wasnt suggesting sitting another 3 years.

 

I was suggesting he would be the backup this year (fully expected as he was under contract anyways)

 

but he would get a nice pay raise this year which could effectively be the equivalent to a bonus on the next contract that he gets early.  and in return, he would sign an extension for 2 years.

 

this way if Brady wants to play one more year, Garopollo is getting paid more than some starters out there, and if Brady wants one more year, they can give it to him.

 

Keep in mind, one of the reason the pats win is because they have a very good salary structure, and all the players buy in.

 

it starts with Brady who is only a 14 million dollar cap hit.  No doubt he is worth 23-25 mil, but he accepts less because he wants to win.

 

all the players on this roster do it.  I dont think there is one player on this team that is overpaid.

 

if Garoppolo buys in on this he will be a winner just like Brady.

 

what he lacks in salary he will more than make up for in endorsements because they are a winning team.   This is the business model for this team.

 

They are the only team that runs on this business model, and they have been largely successful in what I'd call the 'Me' Era where players are all about the money.

 

Everyone checks their ego at the door and plays hard and what they lack in salary they get in endorsements because they win.

 

If Garoppolo has bought into this (as Bradys understudy, there is a good chance that he has) then he will wait for his time to shine.

 

If he's all about the money he will be shipped somewhere else.  That is the New England way.


3 keeper, 12 team league Standard scoring with QB getting -1 pt for an interception & fumbles 5 points for a defensive safety & 6 points for a defensive TD.

Start 2 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 Kicker, one Def/Sp Tms

 

 

 

Also expert Fly Fisherman and story teller.


#23 nobody

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 09:32 PM

ok, you got it all wrong.

 

Not that it matters because there are various permutations and combinations that can work.

 

in my example you add 5 mil to his 1 mil for his final year of his contract so that he has 6 mil total this year.

 

he signs a 2 year, 24 mil contract extension as well.

 

effectively what you are doing is taking that 5 mil you added to this years salary (which the team is not obligated to give) and split it between the 2 remaining years. effectively making the deal the equivalent of 2 years 29 mil or 14.5 mil per year.

 

the increase in this years salary makes up for the lower base salary on the next contract.   so he is effectively being paid like a low to mid range starter but hes getting 5 mil 1 year early for salary cap reasons.

 

assuming this is actually allowed, this is a pretty good way to retain him.

 

I still don't get it. 

 

So he has a contract paying him a million.

 

So he signs another contract paying him 5 million for 2017?

 

Then he signs another contract for 2 years (2017 and 2018) paying him 12 million per year? (usually when people say "extension" they're talking about adding years to the end of the contract)

 

In my dumb mind, I don't think you can have multiple contracts for the same year.

 

In my dumb head, to do what you describe, what you would do is rip up his contract that covers him for 2017 paying him 1 mil per year, and then sign him to a 2 year contract (which I would call a one year extension since you are extending his original contract by one year) paying him 17 million in 2017 (his original 1+ 5 + 12) and 12 million in 2018.  Is that different than what you describe?



#24 Oriole8159

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 09:38 PM

I wasnt suggesting sitting another 3 years.

 

I was suggesting he would be the backup this year (fully expected as he was under contract anyways)

 

but he would get a nice pay raise this year which could effectively be the equivalent to a bonus on the next contract that he gets early.  and in return, he would sign an extension for 2 years.

 

this way if Brady wants to play one more year, Garopollo is getting paid more than some starters out there, and if Brady wants one more year, they can give it to him.

 

Keep in mind, one of the reason the pats win is because they have a very good salary structure, and all the players buy in.

 

it starts with Brady who is only a 14 million dollar cap hit.  No doubt he is worth 23-25 mil, but he accepts less because he wants to win.

 

all the players on this roster do it.  I dont think there is one player on this team that is overpaid.

 

if Garoppolo buys in on this he will be a winner just like Brady.

 

what he lacks in salary he will more than make up for in endorsements because they are a winning team.   This is the business model for this team.

 

They are the only team that runs on this business model, and they have been largely successful in what I'd call the 'Me' Era where players are all about the money.

 

Everyone checks their ego at the door and plays hard and what they lack in salary they get in endorsements because they win.

 

If Garoppolo has bought into this (as Bradys understudy, there is a good chance that he has) then he will wait for his time to shine.

 

If he's all about the money he will be shipped somewhere else.  That is the New England way.

 

dude, you can't compare Brady taking $14 million to Garappolo because Brady's also has a $300 million wife. Plus he's also had max contracts before to compensate for taking less now. So not apples to apples.

Garoppolo has only made $3.5 million, and he's staring at a chance to potentially start for the first time in his career AND make $18 million I'm sure. You can't poo-poo that away because it's not "The Patriots Way."

 

and all players don't buy in. Logan Ryan just left after his rookie contract, Chandler Jones wasn't willing to take less money, Danny Woodhead left after he broke out in NE, LeGarrette Blount didn't re-sign after his first bigger year in NE, who knows what really happened with Jamie Collins, Tavon Wilson didn't re-sign after his rookie contract, Brandon Spikes didn't re-sign for less money after his rookie contract.

 

NE has earned the right to run their business like that, but players have equal leverage, so they by no means have to take what NE offers. So when another team has a starting spot waiting for him and $18 million per year ready to hand out, he owes the Patriots nothing.

 

and that's not being "all about the money," it's being about the money he's owed because rookies get sh!t on in the NFL. There's a huge difference between taking a few extra million to go to a sh!tty team and not be concerned about winning at all, and taking market rate money to start on a good team, which there's plenty of opportunities for.


My Team

 

M RYAN

D MURRAY, T COLEMAN, s. ware, d martin, d. henry, farrow, powell, starks (IR)

A BROWN, M EVANS, DEZ

J REED, delanie

FORBATH

BALTIMORE


#25 Ray_T

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 09:47 PM

 

dude, you can't compare Brady taking $14 million to Garappolo because Brady's also has a $300 million wife. Plus he's also had max contracts before to compensate for taking less now. So not apples to apples.

Garoppolo has only made $3.5 million, and he's staring at a chance to potentially start for the first time in his career AND make $18 million I'm sure. You can't poo-poo that away because it's not "The Patriots Way."

 

and all players don't buy in. Logan Ryan just left after his rookie contract, Chandler Jones wasn't willing to take less money, Danny Woodhead left after he broke out in NE, LeGarrette Blount didn't re-sign after his first bigger year in NE, who knows what really happened with Jamie Collins, Tavon Wilson didn't re-sign after his rookie contract, Brandon Spikes didn't re-sign for less money after his rookie contract.

 

NE has earned the right to run their business like that, but players have equal leverage, so they by no means have to take what NE offers. So when another team has a starting spot waiting for him and $18 million per year ready to hand out, he owes the Patriots nothing.

 

and that's not being "all about the money," it's being about the money he's owed because rookies get sh!t on in the NFL. There's a huge difference between taking a few extra million to go to a sh!tty team and not be concerned about winning at all, and taking market rate money to start on a good team, which there's plenty of opportunities for.

actually you made my point for me.  the ones who dont buy in leave.  That is the business model.


3 keeper, 12 team league Standard scoring with QB getting -1 pt for an interception & fumbles 5 points for a defensive safety & 6 points for a defensive TD.

Start 2 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 Kicker, one Def/Sp Tms

 

 

 

Also expert Fly Fisherman and story teller.


#26 Oriole8159

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 09:52 PM

actually you made my point for me.  the ones who dont buy in leave.  That is the business model.

that's the business model of a monopoly, dude. a monopoly doesn't work when players have equal leverage, and Garoppolo has equal leverage here. He can easily say to them "you need me just as much as I need you. Your dynasty is on a very short clock, and if you really think I'm your Aaron Rodgers, then you better make this worth my while and pay me what the other teams will pay me."

 

He's the exception to "buying in" as you say. And players partly "buy in" as you say because they want to play on a team with Tom Brady. There's no guarantee that the Pats will be the same when he's done, so why should Garoppolo continue to defer his career when there's no telling that the post-Brady Pats will be any better of an organization than any of the options he can go to next year on his own.


My Team

 

M RYAN

D MURRAY, T COLEMAN, s. ware, d martin, d. henry, farrow, powell, starks (IR)

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J REED, delanie

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#27 Ray_T

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 09:57 PM

that's the business model of a monopoly, dude. a monopoly doesn't work when players have equal leverage, and Garoppolo has equal leverage here. He can easily say to them "you need me just as much as I need you. Your dynasty is on a very short clock, and if you really think I'm your Aaron Rodgers, then you better make this worth my while and pay me what the other teams will pay me."

 

He's the exception to "buying in" as you say.

well, if he wants more money than Brady is making, he will be on another team in short order.   They will probably trade him for some other players on a rookie contract or some draft picks.  The players the pats want are those who want to play hard and win.  They have no room for Divas.


3 keeper, 12 team league Standard scoring with QB getting -1 pt for an interception & fumbles 5 points for a defensive safety & 6 points for a defensive TD.

Start 2 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 Kicker, one Def/Sp Tms

 

 

 

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#28 Oriole8159

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 10:03 PM

well, if he wants more money than Brady is making, he will be on another team in short order.   They will probably trade him for some other players on a rookie contract or some draft picks.  The players the pats want are those who want to play hard and win.  They have no room for Divas.

for Christ sake dude, that's not being a diva. A diva is not taking less than you're worth, or allowing your boss to undercut what you deserve.

where do you get this idea from?

 

Also, I added this part above as well..."And players partly "buy in" as you say because they want to play on a team with Tom Brady. There's no guarantee that the Pats will be the same when he's done, so why should Garoppolo continue to defer his career when there's no telling that the post-Brady Pats will be any better of an organization than any of the options he can go to next year on his own?

 

You're confusing the "Patriot Way" with "The Brady Effect," and Garoppolo is the one Pat that is not enhanced by 'The Brady Effect."


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#29 Ray_T

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 10:12 PM

for Christ sake dude, that's not being a diva. A diva is not taking less than you're worth, or allowing your boss to undercut what you deserve.

where do you get this idea from?

 

Also, I added this part above as well..."And players partly "buy in" as you say because they want to play on a team with Tom Brady. There's no guarantee that the Pats will be the same when he's done, so why should Garoppolo continue to defer his career when there's no telling that the post-Brady Pats will be any better of an organization than any of the options he can go to next year on his own?

 

You're confusing the "Patriot Way" with "The Brady Effect," and Garoppolo is the one Pat that is not enhanced by 'The Brady Effect."

I dont think you are getting my point.  I wasnt calling him a Diva.  he's been professional and he has not gone out and made any outrageous demands.  All I'm saying is there is no room on this team for that kind of player.

 

and if you are right, then Jimmy G will go.


3 keeper, 12 team league Standard scoring with QB getting -1 pt for an interception & fumbles 5 points for a defensive safety & 6 points for a defensive TD.

Start 2 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 Kicker, one Def/Sp Tms

 

 

 

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#30 Oriole8159

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 10:19 PM

I dont think you are getting my point.  I wasnt calling him a Diva.  he's been professional and he has not gone out and made any outrageous demands.  All I'm saying is there is no room on this team for that kind of player.

 

and if you are right, then Jimmy G will go.

 

I think you're REALLY overrating the "privilege" that players get for playing in NE. Like it has some magical intrinsic value that is worth more than $6 million per year to a guy that's only made $3 million his entire career. And yes you did say he was being a diva. Your exact words were "The players the pats want are those who want to play hard and win.  They have no room for Divas."

You're specifically equating a guy asking for his fair market return that he has earned, knowing full well that most players only get one shot at their big post rookie contract...to being a diva.

 

 

And I said above, the privilege is just as much playing with Brady, which wouldn't be there anymore. Thus, it's not that great of a privilege anymore for Jimmy, or potentially any other player going forward.

 

They'll have to adjust that organizational structure anyway after Brady leaves, because a WR sure aint taking a pay cut to play with Jimmy G like they would to play with Brady.

 

I don't think we're going to agree on this, so I'm cool moving on if you are.


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#31 Ray_T

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Posted 11 March 2017 - 02:10 PM

 

I think you're REALLY overrating the "privilege" that players get for playing in NE. Like it has some magical intrinsic value that is worth more than $6 million per year to a guy that's only made $3 million his entire career. And yes you did say he was being a diva. Your exact words were "The players the pats want are those who want to play hard and win.  They have no room for Divas."

You're specifically equating a guy asking for his fair market return that he has earned, knowing full well that most players only get one shot at their big post rookie contract...to being a diva.

 

 

And I said above, the privilege is just as much playing with Brady, which wouldn't be there anymore. Thus, it's not that great of a privilege anymore for Jimmy, or potentially any other player going forward.

 

They'll have to adjust that organizational structure anyway after Brady leaves, because a WR sure aint taking a pay cut to play with Jimmy G like they would to play with Brady.

 

I don't think we're going to agree on this, so I'm cool moving on if you are.

I truly dont think they will.

 

if the value of this organization was strictly the value of playing with Brady, then why did the team play well when he was hurt.

 

The coaching staff there made Matt Cassel look like an all star, and the team wins with or without Brady.

 

I really think the Coaching is the star of this show and they do it with a roster full of low paid players who all either stay to win, or move on to make more money elsewhere after getting their superbowl ring.


3 keeper, 12 team league Standard scoring with QB getting -1 pt for an interception & fumbles 5 points for a defensive safety & 6 points for a defensive TD.

Start 2 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 Kicker, one Def/Sp Tms

 

 

 

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#32 Oriole8159

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Posted 11 March 2017 - 03:27 PM

I truly dont think they will.

 

if the value of this organization was strictly the value of playing with Brady, then why did the team play well when he was hurt.

 

The coaching staff there made Matt Cassel look like an all star, and the team wins with or without Brady.

 

I really think the Coaching is the star of this show and they do it with a roster full of low paid players who all either stay to win, or move on to make more money elsewhere after getting their superbowl ring.

 

I'll agree with that to a degree; the coaching definitely deserves it's due. However, as good as they made Cassel look, they still didn't even make the playoffs that year. They are a team that right now that expects to be championship contenders every year because of Brady, so even falling down to a team that is perennially just in the playoffs, is a significant step down.  

Even presuming they can re-sign Jimmy and let Brady retire, I still think there will be a market adjustment until they can show players that they're still a perennial SB con tending team year in and year out, and not just a really good team.

 

We'll see though; good debate.


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#33 jaxjag

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Posted 18 March 2017 - 04:15 PM

Jacoby looked terrible passing the ball and they did lose to Houston when he couldn't complete a forward pass. I would hope they aren't all that confident in him.

 

No, they beat Houston easily.  Brisset lost to Buffalo in a game he played as the 3rd QB with an injured thumb.  I think he actually had surgery.


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#34 TD Ryan2

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 12:19 PM

The Pats control Garopollo for the next two years.

This year, Garopollo is under contract.

Next year, they can franchise him (If Brady is done then? If they want to keep both?)

It at least gives them 2 more years to control the backup and wait to see what Brady does.

 

The price tag to sign away a franchise player from another team is a matching contract offer PLUS 2 1st round picks.

 

This is probably what NE is basing Garopollo's value on - the value of a Franchise Player. Is anyone going to part with 2 1st rounders? 1 first rounder? Who knows. But NE has to at least explore the market and set Garopollo's value at or near what it will be when they no longer control him.

 

It really may be that simple.



#35 Ray_T

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 04:02 PM

Well, it is sure looking more and more like a single first round pick wont get it done.

 

But we also really dont know what kind of offers the pats have turned away either.


3 keeper, 12 team league Standard scoring with QB getting -1 pt for an interception & fumbles 5 points for a defensive safety & 6 points for a defensive TD.

Start 2 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 Kicker, one Def/Sp Tms

 

 

 

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