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#41 Ray_T

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Posted 15 April 2017 - 10:11 PM

Disagree Ray.

I don't think he is worthy of a rb2 ranking.

Rb3 or lower is where I see it.

And there is no way I would draft a rb2 thinking that he might hold up for three or four games, that's to much to spend.

I see it exactly the same way you do, and for that reason I see him a rb3 or lower.

I dont think he has fallen that far.

 

But to be honest, its likely too early to make that evaluation.  With a year out of football, I'd like to see him play a bit in preseason before deciding where I'd rank him in the end.

  

There are some pretty weak RB2's out there and I am pretty sure Lynch is better than they are.  I really dont see too many drafts where Lynch is drafted as a RB3 at this point in time.

 

That being said..... IF (yes that's a big IF) Lynch looks absolutely awful in preseason, he will quickly turn into a DND or a low end RB3.

 

if he looks good, I'll get him as a mid to late RB2(if I can) and be happy with the value.


3 keeper, 12 team league Standard scoring with QB getting -1 pt for an interception & fumbles 5 points for a defensive safety & 6 points for a defensive TD.

Start 2 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 Kicker, one Def/Sp Tms

 

 

 

Also expert Fly Fisherman and story teller.


#42 weepaws

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 12:53 AM

I'm going to rank him as a rb3 or lower and no matter what I see from him, if he indeed does participate in any preseason games, it won't change my ranking of him.

And don't forget he will be 31 yrs old going into the season.

He looked below par the last time I saw him play, and it's hard to believe hes going to come back and be better than the last time I saw him play.

#43 redsrback

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 04:46 AM

Anyone here that thinks they will get Lynch where they think they will , are the 1 person at the draft that reached.



#44 R8RMick

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 08:40 AM

 
 
Certainly by most league's draft we'll have a better idea how he'll hold up. By then Lynch will have participated in training camp and the exhibition season. I'm worried about the abdominal surgery he underwent in 2015, though in all fairness we're talking 18 months. If he's kept himself in shape that will minimize the hamstring-type nagging stuff. He's had some back issues. 
 
Bottom line, he is really motivated to do this (play in Oakland.) It's a special situation for the team, and can't really be compared to the stupid shite we've pulled, dragging guys out for a final year or two. Though in all fairness Jerry Rice worked out well. Behind our line, with a veteran MVP level QB that has dangerous weapons outside, absolutely there is RB2 potential there. Especially considering Lynch's expertise in pass blocking and receiving. It's all riding on his health, of which we'll have a solid gage by the time most leagues draft.
 
One last thing. The Raiders may very well still draft an RB, especially once they get into rounds 4-5 (James Connor.) In fact, if the right guy falls to them in either round two (Mixon) or round three (D'Onta Foreman) they could pull the trigger earlier. It is still a position of future need, and they may be wanting to hedge bets in case of nagging injuries to Lynch. 


Bumping this post, for those less-informed.
"The floggings will continue until morale improves..."

#45 Ray_T

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 08:14 PM

Anyone here that thinks they will get Lynch where they think they will , are the 1 person at the draft that reached.

without a doubt, this is one of those players where you set your value for him and you need to make sure you do not reach.

 

there are always exceptions to this rule that are situational, but in general, these are the type of players who ruin drafts if you overvalue them by too much.

 

It's one thing if you take a high end RB3 and draft him as a low end RB2 because the difference between the two is small.   but if you draft that player as a low end RB1 you are really taking a chance with that player.  

 

I have no doubt that some will draft him as a high end RB2 or low end RB1 and if they do, they will likely be disappointed in the end.


3 keeper, 12 team league Standard scoring with QB getting -1 pt for an interception & fumbles 5 points for a defensive safety & 6 points for a defensive TD.

Start 2 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 Kicker, one Def/Sp Tms

 

 

 

Also expert Fly Fisherman and story teller.


#46 ralphster

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 09:47 PM

I'll come out now and say I think he's an rb1.
“When I played pro football, I never set out to hurt anyone deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something” ~ D. Butkus

#47 Ray_T

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 10:52 PM

I'll come out now and say I think he's an rb1.

when healthy, I'd fully agree.

 

but given the surgery he had, the time off, and his age, I think it's fair to add a risk premium.

 

Lots of RB's fall off a cliff at the age of 30 not because their skills have eroded that much, but because their bodies cannot take the physical pounding anymore.

 

and Lynch has some hard miles on the odometer.  this guy didnt just run around people, he ran through them, over them and at the end of the play Lynchs tire tracks were all over two or three guys bodies.  Dont get me wrong.  I loved watching this guy beast on people, but that kind of play takes it's toll on a body.

 

I think he showed signs of physically breaking down in his last season where he was not very healthy.

 

it may have just been a bad year.

 

but it may have also been a sign of things to come.

 

at the very least, a reasonable risk premium to downgrade him into the RB2 range is not an unreasonable adjustment (in my opinion)   I fully accept that we may agree to disagree.

 

But.... we all know that where you think a player will produce is not necessarily where you should draft them.

 

I honestly dont think a lot of people will draft him as a RB1 because of the reasons I mentioned above and that works to your advantage.   If you really like him, draft him when the early RB2's are going off the board.   Right now the odds of him going in the draft as a RB1 are slim so why pay more when you can get him for less?

 

so if you get him as a RB2 (even a high end RB2), you get a player with some upside and your risk is not the same.

 

just my thoughts.


3 keeper, 12 team league Standard scoring with QB getting -1 pt for an interception & fumbles 5 points for a defensive safety & 6 points for a defensive TD.

Start 2 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 Kicker, one Def/Sp Tms

 

 

 

Also expert Fly Fisherman and story teller.


#48 redsrback

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 05:48 AM

Bumping this post, for those less-informed.

In rounds 4-5 are you looking for a RB that might get you like 12 TDs in 14 games ?



#49 Maulers1973

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 06:28 AM

If he's healthy, it's a no brainer.  He'll be a top 5 RB.  Though, we don't know if he'll be healthy and if he'll hold up.  He certainly could.  



#50 redsrback

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 06:49 AM

If he's healthy, it's a no brainer.  He'll be a top 5 RB.  Though, we don't know if he'll be healthy and if he'll hold up.  He certainly could.  

Somebody like a Latavius Murray?



#51 R8RMick

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 09:15 AM

Somebody like a Latavius Murray?


Raiders are upgrading Murray's position, and seriously I wish Slats the best in MINN. Dude left far too many yards on the field. Fans of the team know this. Others, like yourself, will figure it out once the season starts.
"The floggings will continue until morale improves..."

#52 redsrback

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 05:57 PM

Raiders are upgrading Murray's position, and seriously I wish Slats the best in MINN. Dude left far too many yards on the field. Fans of the team know this. Others, like yourself, will figure it out once the season starts.

What I know is he is a speedster, and can be tackled by his shoelace. Also I know the Raiders hit gold with Crabtree coming over. Add everything up and the stats that are above average for a RB and a chance to upgrade in other places and once again the Raiders wizzed down there leg with an old pound and ground player. Didn't you upgrade the line to make holes for a RB like Murray? Cmon Mick, be honest your better than this. I think he will struggle in minny because the team don't have half the talent the Raiders, but what you gonna do run and not pass.



#53 R8RMick

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 06:09 PM

What I know is he is a speedster, and can be tackled by his shoelace. Also I know the Raiders hit gold with Crabtree coming over. Add everything up and the stats that are above average for a RB and a chance to upgrade in other places and once again the Raiders wizzed down there leg with an old pound and ground player. Didn't you upgrade the line to make holes for a RB like Murray? Cmon Mick, be honest your better than this. I think he will struggle in minny because the team don't have half the talent the Raiders, but what you gonna do run and not pass.


It's my opinion they'll draft a back whether or not Lynch signs.

Hey look, it was not easy for Raider fans to watch Murray leave. Great kid, hard worker, zero drama, fantastic team mate. But yards were getting left on the field. Yards that could've kept the chains moving, the clock spinning, and our defense off life support.

Slats had freak physical gifts, but bottom line he had 6th round RB skills. It was never about money, we needed to upgrade the position.
"The floggings will continue until morale improves..."

#54 Ray_T

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 06:52 PM

It's my opinion they'll draft a back whether or not Lynch signs.

Hey look, it was not easy for Raider fans to watch Murray leave. Great kid, hard worker, zero drama, fantastic team mate. But yards were getting left on the field. Yards that could've kept the chains moving, the clock spinning, and our defense off life support.

Slats had freak physical gifts, but bottom line he had 6th round RB skills. It was never about money, we needed to upgrade the position.

well, maybe if Lynch signs, they grab a RB in round 2 or 3 of the draft.

 

if Lynch remains unsigned, maybe they draft one in round 1.

 

Either way, I agree, they still need to draft someone.


3 keeper, 12 team league Standard scoring with QB getting -1 pt for an interception & fumbles 5 points for a defensive safety & 6 points for a defensive TD.

Start 2 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 Kicker, one Def/Sp Tms

 

 

 

Also expert Fly Fisherman and story teller.


#55 R8RMick

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 08:19 PM

well, maybe if Lynch signs, they grab a RB in round 2 or 3 of the draft.
 
if Lynch remains unsigned, maybe they draft one in round 1.
 
Either way, I agree, they still need to draft someone.


Round One- Mixon
Round Two- Foreman
Round Four- Connor

I think those are the options.
"The floggings will continue until morale improves..."

#56 redsrback

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 04:30 PM

And once again , my point is you arent Super-bowl ready and going after a RB shows the raiders are clueless trying to upgrade a guy who got 12 TDs in 14 games instead of addressing other areas.



#57 Ray_T

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 09:30 PM

And once again , my point is you arent Super-bowl ready and going after a RB shows the raiders are clueless trying to upgrade a guy who got 12 TDs in 14 games instead of addressing other areas.

I'm sure to some degree this has come down to money.   They have some guys who will be demanding big pay raises in the coming years.   I'm not sure they wanted to break the bank for him, and I suspect he wasnt willing to sign a short term deal.

 

At the end of the day, I think some of those big numbers were a result of the line.   Those guys are BEASTS.  

 

as a coaching staff, you need to evaluate these things.

 

does your RB get what's blocked for him?

 

does he get extra yards because of (insert reason here)?

 

does he hit the holes that the line opens up for him?

 

If the answers to these questions isnt outstanding and you feel the guy is leaving yards on the field, then maybe you roll the dice and try to get a top end RB.

 

it is clear what a top end RB did for a team like Dallas.   what do you think a top end RB would do for Oakland?


3 keeper, 12 team league Standard scoring with QB getting -1 pt for an interception & fumbles 5 points for a defensive safety & 6 points for a defensive TD.

Start 2 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 Kicker, one Def/Sp Tms

 

 

 

Also expert Fly Fisherman and story teller.


#58 redsrback

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 03:55 AM

Dallas does not have 2 number 1 wrs. And i dont think Oaklands line is as advertised because they cant open holes for Murray like Dallas can. Moves like this can also build a team like the Browns in 2 years for not rounding off the rough edges and competing while the fire is hot. Plaine and simple not a move for a team working its way up because lynch is not putting a passing team over the top. Seattle was built for the run.



#59 R8RMick

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 06:23 AM

And once again , my point is you arent Super-bowl ready and going after a RB shows the raiders are clueless trying to upgrade a guy who got 12 TDs in 14 games instead of addressing other areas.



'Once again lol???'

Dude, don't sit there and try to splain things to me about the Raiders. I know this football team. Not super bowl ready? That's a bold statement considering they went 12-4 and were only bounced from contention when they lost their QB.

If you were half the genius you thought you were about this football team you'd understand why they let Murray walk. It had nothing to do with money, though we do have to extend Carr, Mack, Gabe Jackson and Coop. I'll ask those who are interested and have an open mind to watch this twitter link, as it encapsulates everything I'm saying about Slats Murray.

https://twitter.com/...1819507712?s=09

The BEST thing the Raiders can do to help their defense is bring in a talented young running back to move the chains and spin the clock. Exactly what the Cowboys have done with their offensive line. This keeps their defense off the field and keeps opposing defenses honest with our passing game. I like the idea of bringing in Lynch, but this team needs a talented young back for the future.

I think I'm done with this, don't bother responding.
"The floggings will continue until morale improves..."

#60 ralphster

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 06:32 AM

Dallas does not have 2 number 1 wrs. And i dont think Oaklands line is as advertised because they cant open holes for Murray like Dallas can. Moves like this can also build a team like the Browns in 2 years for not rounding off the rough edges and competing while the fire is hot. Plaine and simple not a move for a team working its way up because lynch is not putting a passing team over the top. Seattle was built for the run.


Oakland is built to contend now. That line is more than good enough to block for Lynch in the manner he's used to. They addressed the regression of Walford by adding Cook. Getting Lynch and shoring up the defense in the draft is a good plan.

And though I enjoy the debate that comes from these discussions/threads, do you have to come across as such a condescending know it all? Or is it that you just don't realize that's how you read? Not trying to start sh!t, legitimately asking.
“When I played pro football, I never set out to hurt anyone deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something” ~ D. Butkus

#61 Kopy

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 06:47 AM

I just wish this would get done already. Me and R8R had this trade worked out weeks ago.
<p>......SEATTLE SEAHAWKS......      Future Dynasty

#62 R8RMick

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 06:49 AM

I just wish this would get done already. Me and R8R had this trade worked out weeks ago.



You get y'alls 7th rounder back, or a conditional 6th, isn't that what we worked out?
"The floggings will continue until morale improves..."

#63 Kopy

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 09:37 AM

You get y'alls 7th rounder back, or a conditional 6th, isn't that what we worked out?

7th rounder. Sold and good luck.
<p>......SEATTLE SEAHAWKS......      Future Dynasty

#64 redsrback

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 11:30 AM

Oakland is built to contend now. That line is more than good enough to block for Lynch in the manner he's used to. They addressed the regression of Walford by adding Cook. Getting Lynch and shoring up the defense in the draft is a good plan.

And though I enjoy the debate that comes from these discussions/threads, do you have to come across as such a condescending know it all? Or is it that you just don't realize that's how you read? Not trying to start sh!t, legitimately asking.

No, didn't mean to come across that way, just thought it was obvious. Walfords a no brainer I got from an Oakland faithful last year, now ill let it go for NOW.  :wave: 



#65 ralphster

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 02:05 PM

TEs take the longest to develop. I'm still buying Walford where possible. Cook might keep him down for a year or so, but Cook isn't great and Walford healthy with a full offseason could easily relegate him to the bench.
“When I played pro football, I never set out to hurt anyone deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something” ~ D. Butkus

#66 weepaws

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 02:51 PM

It sure is possible.

I took him very late last season.

But with another season under his belt and him being healthy he could emerge with a good season.

Cook unfortunately will take away some of his production this season, so buy low.

#67 R8RMick

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 09:23 PM

TEs take the longest to develop. I'm still buying Walford where possible. Cook might keep him down for a year or so, but Cook isn't great and Walford healthy with a full offseason could easily relegate him to the bench.


I pumped Walford up last year, I've got no issues walking back stuff or admitting bad calls. BUT, since we're spiking the football, if other folks knew anything or even just a little about the Raiders they'd know Walford was in a nasty ATV accident just before camp last year. This set him back more than the team thought it would.

Those SAME people would also know the Cook signing was a boost of support for Walford, as it pretty much eliminates the possibility of the team drafting a rookie TE to compete for the future.

I really do know this football team, but I digress.
"The floggings will continue until morale improves..."

#68 Marshall

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 08:48 PM

Gah.

 

My initial excitement is slowly but surely turning into annoyed aggravation - which, at this point, is undoubtedly shared by others. Today, Reggie McKenzie allowed as how he would really like to see some resolution before the draft:

 

http://www.csnbayare...-done-nfl-draft

 

As would we all, Reggie. As would we all.


"Every man must skin his own skunk."  ~ Abraham Lincoln's father


#69 Frozenbeernuts

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Posted Yesterday, 08:05 AM

This story is getting personal it seems.