Who is the best US president since World War II?

[Mike Honcho 4,010]

 

/thread

[IMMensaMind 459]

You lost me at beloved Russia.

It is not my responsibility to avoid telling you what I believe in order to 'keep' you. While - in the present - the MSM's meme of Trump loving Putin is clearly transparent bullsht, history has more than recorded FDR's love of Josef Stalin:

 

http://time.com/4675399/fdr-donald-trump-russia/

 

And that Ponzi scheme has been working for 60 or so years.

No, it hasn't, and it is shockingly shortsighted of you to actually claim otherwise. You can make any stupid idea 'work' if you keep throwing increasing amounts of other people's money into it.

 

Regardless, how is that sub 1% return on your 'investment' working out for you?

 

No one gets paid in a Ponzi scheme but the guy who starts it.

Uh, that's not true; it depends upon scale and timing - and there is definitely a difference regarding longevity when the power of Governmentn taxation backs a public Ponzi scheme. Plenty of Bernie Madoff's early investors - and early withdrawers - made money. It was only after too many attempted to withdraw that Madoff was even caught.

 

Plenty of people have been paid from SS. They've never missed a payment yet.

This is a bad argument. Plenty of people have been paid thousands of my dollars merely by being the beneficiary of the Government teat courtesy my hard work.

 

I would be well over a million dollars ahead of where I am today had my SS withholding requirements never existed.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,589]

Magnificent Bastard probably went back into the archive and read a few years worth of posts just to prep for becoming a regular poster here. Otherwise that would mean that MB has been pretending to be an ex cop and Marine for years.

 

Obviously anyone who would do that would be a mentally ill piece of sh1t phaggot on par with a Nazi child molester. I refuse to believe that anyone could be such a total loser.

True Blue and a Jarhead through and through. Sorry you spent your life in a comic book store and here. Ooh Rah!

[IMMensaMind 459]

Personally, I think a pole like this would be much better if instead of trying to figure out bestest than worstest you simply asked who had the most consequential presidency.

Or, As Trump recently called it, the most consensual presidency.

As far as consequential presidencies go? One would be hard-pressed not to include FDR in the top of that conversation.

Just because things happened during the presidency doesn't make that president responsible for those things. That's why I would argue for consequential.

I agree. FDR was most consequential. Much of what Obama even did wouldn't have been possible without the corrupt foundation that FDR laid as a leftist opportunist post-WWII.

[IMMensaMind 459]

That's right. If the politicians had left our money alone, there would be no problem with it. It wasn't intended to be used as a general fund for DC to grab from. That's not FDR's fault.

Yes it is, because it excuses FDR's lack of wisdom. Anyone who understands the corruptive influence of Government understands that neither taxes or Government programs ever go away, and SSI was a terrible idea on its face.

 

Government charity is not a good idea. It has never been a good idea. It is not in the Constitution, and only those ignorant of history and the manipulation of the meaning of "General Welfare" have deluded themselves to the contrary.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,589]

It is not my responsibility to avoid telling you what I believe in order to 'keep' you. While - in the present - the MSM's meme of Trump loving Putin is clearly transparent bullsht, history has more than recorded FDR's love of Josef Stalin:

 

http://time.com/4675399/fdr-donald-trump-russia/

 

 

No, it hasn't, and it is shockingly shortsighted of you to actually claim otherwise. You can make any stupid idea 'work' if you keep throwing increasing amounts of other people's money into it.

 

Regardless, how is that sub 1% return on your 'investment' working out for you?

 

 

Uh, that's not true; it depends upon scale and timing - and there is definitely a difference regarding longevity when the power of Governmentn taxation backs a public Ponzi scheme. Plenty of Bernie Madoff's early investors - and early withdrawers - made money. It was only after too many attempted to withdraw that Madoff was even caught.

 

 

This is a bad argument. Plenty of people have been paid thousands of my dollars merely by being the beneficiary of the Government teat courtesy my hard work.

 

I would be well over a million dollars ahead of where I am today had my SS withholding requirements never existed.

Well, it's insurance. You pay for insurance. It's not meant to make anyone rich, just to insure that they don't live in squalor. You really think you can trust the majority of people to save and fund their retirement? Go check out the bitcoin thread. And SS has cost you millions? I'm not saying it didn't cost you, but millions feels like a stretch.

[dain11279 927]

3 votes for Trump coming in second right behind Reagan

 

This place is really the best

[IMMensaMind 459]

Well, it's insurance. You pay for insurance.

That's the same argument both Obama used to establish ACA, and John Roberts used to uphold it as Constitutional.

 

I can buy insurance on the private market. What you're endorsing is forced.

 

It's not meant to make anyone rich, just to insure that they don't live in squalor.

You're just Appealing to Emotion. Charity is designed to do the same thing, and - regardless of Intentions (witness the clever wording of things like "The Patriot Act"), with which the Road to Hell is paved - it had the very specific effect of making me more poor. It is wealth redistribution, it became a slush fund "Lock Box" from which our Government raided copiously and then was forced to increase spending in subsequent years to increase debt, and it is central to conditioning the Washington mindset to expand other entitlements.

 

You really think you can trust the majority of people to save and fund their retirement?

There once was a time when people were independent. What Government has done - including SSI - is drug people into a dependent fugue.

 

Go check out the bitcoin thread.

What about the bitcoin thread?

 

And SS has cost you millions? I'm not saying it didn't cost you, but millions feels like a stretch.

Figure out how maxing my SS 'donation' every year for nearly 30 years adds up, and then consider the difference between the meager monthly income that will guarantee me - if I ever reach the moving target which has become the Government's increasingly delayed decision to pay it - with what I would have grown on my own, if I had been left to my own devices.

 

A million is far too conservative, if I really start doing the math.

[Mookz 1,287]

US President fraft? 10 geeks, 16 rounds.

[Sho Nuff 719]

Social Security as it was originally intended was a good thing. The problem is that they have expanded it to try and make it a catch all and that doesn't work.

It works...not as some end all be all savings. But it works. One of the many issues is congress using it as their bank account for years.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,589]

That's the same argument both Obama used to establish ACA, and John Roberts used to uphold it as Constitutional.

 

I can buy insurance on the private market. What you're endorsing is forced.

 

 

You're just Appealing to Emotion. Charity is designed to do the same thing, and - regardless of Intentions (witness the clever wording of things like "The Patriot Act"), with which the Road to Hell is paved - it had the very specific effect of making me more poor. It is wealth redistribution, it became a slush fund "Lock Box" from which our Government raided copiously and then was forced to increase spending in subsequent years to increase debt, and it is central to conditioning the Washington mindset to expand other entitlements.

 

 

There once was a time when people were independent. What Government has done - including SSI - is drug people into a dependent fugue.

 

 

What about the bitcoin thread?

 

 

Figure out how maxing my SS 'donation' every year for nearly 30 years adds up, and then consider the difference between the meager monthly income that will guarantee me - if I ever reach the moving target which has become the Government's increasingly delayed decision to pay it - with what I would have grown on my own, if I had been left to my own devices.

 

A million is far too conservative, if I really start doing the math.

You can go look up exactly what you paid into it over the years, no need for you to do the math. And let's not forget that SS also protects your family if you die and you if you become disabled. Yeah, the disability part is taken advantage of and that pisses me off as well. That needs to end.

[IMMensaMind 459]

You can go look up exactly what you paid into it over the years, no need for you to do the math.

I can look that up - it's a lot - but I cannot calculate the returns I would have managed with the additional money.

 

And let's not forget that SS also protects your family if you die and you if you become disabled.

I already have that. Life insurance. I have a lot of it.

 

Yeah, the disability part is taken advantage of and that pisses me off as well. That needs to end.

It's far worse than that.

[Mike Honcho 4,010]

3 votes for Trump coming in second right behind Reagan

 

This place is really the best

 

It tells me I need to invvest 100% in Brawndo.

[Filthy Fernadez 2,696]

Reagan then Trump

[IMMensaMind 459]

It works...not as some end all be all savings. But it works. One of the many issues is congress using it as their bank account for years.

So to demonstrate how it works you immediately cite a glaring way in which it doesn't work?

 

It has also managed to lag returns that an equivalent amount of money put into the Stock Market would have gained.

 

By...about enough to pay off our National Debt.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,589]

I can look that up - it's a lot - but I cannot calculate the returns I would have managed with the additional money.

 

 

I already have that. Life insurance. I have a lot of it.

 

 

It's far worse than that.

Calculate the returns? You're making a big leap there. But fine, you would have done a better job. Are you willing to say most Americans would be as savy or responsible as you? I give you the real estate bubble as exhibit A. Question, how many employees have you had in your life?

[TimmySmith 2,782]

3 votes for Trump coming in second right behind Reagan

 

This place is really the best

Their greatness is just inflated due to the failures that they followed.

 

Truman is one that always intrigues me. Dropped the bombs, most powerful man in the postwar world, so it can be said his thumbprint is still large today.

[Sho Nuff 719]

So to demonstrate how it works you immediately cite a glaring way in which it doesn't work?

 

It has also managed to lag returns that an equivalent amount of money put into the Stock Market would have gained.

 

By...about enough to pay off our National Debt.

Its a glaring way congress docked things up. The action of forced savings for some sort of social safety net does work.

 

If you think ridding us of ss and going private will do anything but amount to millions not investing and being broke old asses...you are a fool.

[parrot 789]

That's right. If the politicians had left our money alone, there would be no problem with it. It wasn't intended to be used as a general fund for DC to grab from. That's not FDR's fault.

 

Actually it was designed that way from the start.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,589]

 

Actually it was designed that way from the start.

I don't know that. Please explain. And I'm sure any provision put in place where it could be used for the general funding of the govt also included that it had to be paid back

[parrot 789]

I don't know that. Please explain

The orginal SSI law mandated that all excess funds not paid out in benefits be used to purchase interest-bearing treasury securities, thereby making those funds available to the treasury for the operation of the government. The Trust Fund was not designed to be held as a massive cash reserve.

 

 

 

( It shall be the duty of the Secretary of the Treasury to invest such portion of the amounts credited to the Account as is not, in his judgment, required to meet current withdrawals. Such investment may be made only in interest-bearing obligations of the United States or in obligations guaranteed as to both principal and interest by the United States.

 

https://www.ourdocuments.gov/doc.php?flash=false&doc=68&page=transcript

[IMMensaMind 459]

Its a glaring way congress docked things up. The action of forced savings for some sort of social safety net does work.

If you think ridding us of ss and going private will do anything but amount to millions not investing and being broke old asses...you are a fool.

You're moving the conversation to a paradigm of what happens now after these crippling dependency programs have wrought decades of damage.

 

It's like saying "if you think that drug addict is going to responsibly take care of themselves and their kids, you're a fool".

 

You can be certain that I'm not a fool. My comments were directed to the stupidity of the idea with which to begin, and the lack of wisdom who are flat gobsmacked that Congress would abuse a program which was made to be abused.

[IMMensaMind 459]

Calculate the returns? You're making a big leap there.

What kind of big leap are you think I'm taking?

 

But fine, you would have done a better job.

Bit of an understatement, don't you think?

 

https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/social-security-vs-stock-returns-no-contest

 

Are you willing to say most Americans would be as savy or responsible as you?

Non sequitur, nor is it my or anyone one else's job to legislate societal responsibility. The only way 'society' learns responsibility is through individual effort - and the way they collectively unlearn it is exactly the same way that Government taught the black family to disintegrate.

 

Because slavery didn't do it, nor did overt civil rights abuses.

 

I give you the real estate bubble as exhibit A.

That's a terrible example, because it wouldn't have been possible without government meddling. It's circular reasoning, in fact. You are literally saying "let me prove to you that government is necessary for these things, by demonstrating an example of societal damage that was largely caused by government meddling".

 

Question, how many employees have you had in your life?

More than 99% of people in this country.

[IMMensaMind 459]

Its a glaring way congress docked things up. The action of forced savings for some sort of social safety net does work.

No, I cannot argue that. People my age are skeptical it will even be there, and - even if it is - at what cost? Something doesn't 'work' merely because it can be made to "work" at any cost.

 

I can hire maids for every room in my house, but that doesn't mean that what I've done is "working" in the proper sense of the word.

 

If you think ridding us of ss and going private will do anything but amount to millions not investing and being broke old asses...you are a fool.

I don't know if you've noticed, but that's already happening. Even with SS, which will not be enough.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,589]

What kind of big leap are you think I'm taking?

 

 

Bit of an understatement, don't you think?

 

https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/social-security-vs-stock-returns-no-contest

 

 

Non sequitur, nor is it my or anyone one else's job to legislate societal responsibility. The only way 'society' learns responsibility is through individual effort - and the way they collectively unlearn it is exactly the same way that Government taught the black family to disintegrate.

 

Because slavery didn't do it, nor did overt civil rights abuses.

 

 

That's a terrible example, because it wouldn't have been possible without government meddling. It's circular reasoning, in fact. You are literally saying "let me prove to you that government is necessary for these things, by demonstrating an example of societal damage that was largely caused by government meddling".

 

 

More than 99% of people in this country.

Great. How many?

[tanatastic 2,061]

Saying Trump here is just sad. I’ll give you quacks better than the other option, but better than some of the ones on this list is just silly.

[IMMensaMind 459]

Great. How many?

It is a meaningless question. I have refuted - with links - those claims that you're making, and you're not addressing those. Bringing this topic to a redirected subject about which I do not feel compelled to disclose answers is meaningless.

 

The answer is in the triple digits at one time, and in 4 digits over my career. The answer still means nothing in the context of this conversation.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,589]

It is a meaningless question.

Just trying to figure out how much you may have put in. Also, did you make the bulk of your money on capital or labor?

[IMMensaMind 459]

Just trying to figure out how much you may have put in. Also, did you make the bulk of your money on capital or labor?

I made the bulk of my money on my own abilities and intellect. Others made money off of that trait as well. Again, what you're trying to deflect into is meaningless.

 

You made claims about FDR, and you have attempted to move far away from defending that.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,589]

I made the bulk of my money on my own abilities and intellect. Others made money off of that trait as well. Again, what you're trying to deflect into is meaningless.

 

You made claims about FDR, and you have attempted to move far away from defending that.

Sorry man. Sometimes a conversation reaches its conclusion. Your statement about FDR and beloved Russia kind of ended that. Sort of like when someone goes Nazi when talking about Trump. I'm now on to SS as it presently is, and opening myself up to being educated on it. I obviously have a viewpoint, but I'm open to others. If you don't want to participate that's cool.

[GobbleDog 815]

Worst president pre-WW2

 

Tie between War Criminal Lincoln and give all Puerto Rican's US citizenship Woodrow Wilson. Both can rot in hell.

[IMMensaMind 459]

Sorry man. Sometimes a conversation reaches its conclusion. Your statement about FDR and beloved Russia kind of ended that.

How, since I demonstrated FDR's love of Russia via Time Magazine? There are countless other links that can be provided which demonstrate beyond a doubt FDR's love of Russia and its Communist underpinnings.

 

Sort of like when someone goes Nazi when talking about Trump.

You're acting very left right now. As in: using nonsense to attempt to deride truth. FDR's love of Russia is hardly disputed by any credible historian; there's too much evidence. So much, in fact, that the even the liberals of Time Magazine have acknowledged it (which is why I chose that particular link).

 

I'm now on to SS as it presently is, and opening myself up to being educated on it. I obviously have a viewpoint, but I'm open to others. If you don't want to participate that's cool.

 

You're not open because you close off discussion by refusing to acknowledge facts, and - if you have an issue with what I call facts - a refusal to document a credible argument against them.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,589]

How, since I demonstrated FDR's love of Russia via Time Magazine? There are countless other links that can be provided which demonstrate beyond a doubt FDR's love of Russia and its Communist underpinnings.

 

 

You're acting very left right now. As in: using nonsense to attempt to deride truth. FDR's love of Russia is hardly disputed by any credible historian; there's too much evidence. So much, in fact, that the even the liberals of Time Magazine have acknowledged it (which is why I chose that particular link).

 

 

 

You're not open because you close off discussion by refusing to acknowledge facts, and - if you have an issue with what I call facts - a refusal to document a credible argument against them.

So it's all left or right I guess? No room for disagreeing with all Conservative thought? All or nothing? You're sounding very left now.

[IMMensaMind 459]

So it's all left or right I guess? No room for disagreeing with all Conservative thought? All or nothing? You're sounding very left now.

Huh?

 

I am disagreeing with you and providing support for my disagreement. You, though, are not.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,589]

Huh?

 

I am disagreeing with you and providing support for my disagreement. You, though, are not.

You claim you lost millions. I find that hard to believe. That's all. I could be wrong, but you won't show me how I am. And your article from 2005 doesn't prove that. That's because that article couldn't have been written in 2009. It would not have applied during a downturn in the stock market, never mind a crash.

[IMMensaMind 459]

You claim you lost millions. I find that hard to believe. That's all. I could be wrong, but you won't show me how I am.

I said "a million". I also told you have have contributed max to SS for about 30 years. Even a cursory examination of average returns with the max donation over 30 years demonstrates that number as conservative.

 

And your article from 2005 doesn't prove that.

I didn't post anything to prove that to you. I posted links to assert other points which you aren't addressing.

 

That's because that article couldn't have been written in 2009. It would not have applied during a downturn in the stock market, never mind a crash.

That article takes into account regular market crashes. You didn't read it.

 

And all of those points took place after you ignored the refutation of your claims about FDR with which to begin. FDR was a terrible horrible socialist/communist president, and set the country on the road of dependency.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,589]

I said "a million". I also told you have have contributed max to SS for about 30 years. Even a cursory examination of average returns with the max donation over 30 years demonstrates that number as conservative.

 

I didn't post anything to prove that to you. I posted links to assert other points which you aren't addressing.

 

That article takes into account regular market crashes. You didn't read it.

 

And all of those points took place after you ignored the refutation of your claims about FDR with which to begin. FDR was a terrible horrible socialist/communist president, and set the country on the road of dependency.

Led us to victory on two fronts in ww2. Made hard decisions. The years after he left were the greatest days we have ever seen. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[IMMensaMind 459]

Led us to victory on two fronts in ww2.

That wasn't him. There were generals involved; generals who regularly butted heads with FDR.

 

Made hard decisions. The years after he left were the greatest days we have ever seen. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Anyone can create 'greatest days' for a time, by mortgaging futures.

 

You say this despite facts shouting at you what damage was done long term - including decimating black families and throwing our country into a socialist model of entitlement spending.

 

You are unwilling to acknowledge the root(s) of our current problems, and absolutely slough off the fact that FDR willingly sacrificed 3000 lives in Pearl Harbor to force US entry into WWII.

[Voltaire 4,554]

US President fraft? 10 geeks, 16 rounds.

There's been 45, so best is 5 geeks 9 rounds (9x5 works too)

[Voltaire 4,554]

Their greatness is just inflated due to the failures that they followed.

 

Truman is one that always intrigues me. Dropped the bombs, most powerful man in the postwar world, so it can be said his thumbprint is still large today.

I felt bad having to file him in the catch-all "other" category but I didn't have access to 14 boxes, only ten. I suppose Bush Sr. could have went in, it was going to be one of those two. I also like Nixon up until the scandal which deservedly ruined him but is also all we remember of him.