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If we build the wall..

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If we limit illegal immigration in a serious way, how do think it will affect the economy?

 

I know it would cripple California for sure and probably seriously damage Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas economy. What about the rest of the country?

 

I haven't heard anyone bring this up in the discussion. Just a bunch of rhetoric, on both sides. But the implications would certainly be drastic and I think it should be considered. Much like Ron Paul's "lets cut the military in half" idea. It makes sense and sounds good on the surface. But drastic changes like these could cause another huge recession.

 

What say you?

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These immigrants bring nothing and take everything. Much of what they earn goes back to Old Messico.

 

No way it hurts the economy.

 

Many businesses, especially small businesses, rely on cheap illegal labor.

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These immigrants bring nothing and take everything. Much of what they earn goes back to Old Messico.

 

No way it hurts the economy.

 

Have a link to back this up...because bring nothing and take everything is pretty false (especially when talking about 2nd generation immigrants impact).

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Cripple California? Not hardly. Those low skill jobs would be filled by American kids just starting out in the workforce like they should be. Without the multi million dollar expense that illegals cost this state every year. Win/Win

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Cripple California? Not hardly. Those low skill jobs would be filled by American kids just starting out in the workforce like they should be. Without the multi million dollar expense that illegals cost this state every year. Win/Win

 

Lol you're funny. American kids won't even flip burgers for 15 bucks an hour. You seriously think they're going to pick crops for 8?

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Have a link to back this up...because bring nothing and take everything is pretty false (especially when talking about 2nd generation immigrants impact).

Have a link to back this up?

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Lol you're funny. American kids won't even flip burgers for 15 bucks an hour. You seriously think they're going to pick crops for 8?

That's because they're coddled by their parents. We don't need illegals, they need us.

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I dont think it effects the economy at all, what the left fails to see is that after we secure the border with a wall, if we don't have enough crop pickers, we can issue temporary 6 month work visas. The left always tries to jump to the crops thing though, cause thats what you think they do, but the fact is most of the farms I have been on, only need pickers 3-4 months a year

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That's because they're coddled by their parents. We don't need illegals, they need us.

 

Ok I agree. Kids are soft today. Doesn't change the fact you're still going to seriously damage the economy. And how is that a good thing exactly?

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I dont think it effects the economy at all, what the left fails to see is that after we secure the border with a wall, if we don't have enough crop pickers, we can issue temporary 6 month work visas. The left always tries to jump to the crops thing though, cause thats what you think they do, but the fact is most of the farms I have been on, only need pickers 3-4 months a year

 

 

I just used the crop thing as it is the most widely used analogy when talking about illegals and the jobs they do here. You know they do a lot of jobs for a lot less than what Americans will do them for.

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I just used the crop thing as it is the most widely used analogy when talking about illegals and the jobs they do here. You know they do a lot of jobs for a lot less than what Americans will do them for.

 

actually they dont do them for less than what Americans will do them for

 

for example your average home depot illegal worker makes tax free 90-160$ a day

 

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I have an idea, his about a wall and we allow immigrants to come here if they have a job in the agricultural or lower end server industries? This way we know who's coming in and what they are doing. And no welfare or other social services, no kids in our schools. That stuff is expensive.

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Have a link to back this up?

http://immigrationimpact.com/2016/09/26/children-of-immigrants-economic-benefits/

https://www.nap.edu/read/23550/chapter/2

http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2013/02/07/second-generation-americans/

 

This takes into consideration all immigration...not just from Mexico...not just illegal...but showing 1st generation may be a strain...but 2nd generation (or then native born) is not...and some of the cost of the 1st generation is in educating the 2nd.

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Ok I agree. Kids are soft today. Doesn't change the fact you're still going to seriously damage the economy. And how is that a good thing exactly?

How does it damage the economy? It puts Americans to work, which means more tax revenue due to above the table wages that stay here as opposed to going to Mexico and it teaches young people the value of hard work which pays off for them, and us, in the long run.

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I have an idea, his about a wall and we allow immigrants to come here if they have a job in the agricultural or lower end server industries? This way we know who's coming in and what they are doing. And no welfare or other social services, no kids in our schools. That stuff is expensive.

 

exactly 6 month work visas, check in every month, show you are contributing, (with a work visa you pay taxes) and you can earn your way to citizenship, I am all for that

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How does it damage the economy? It puts Americans to work, which means more tax revenue due to above the table wages that stay here as opposed to going to Mexico and it teaches young people the value of hard work which pays off for them, and us, in the long run.

 

Because many of these businesses cannot afford to pay what Americans want to be paid. So say the rubber meets the road, you would have the businesses going under and the kids still sitting at home on the Xbox not willing to pick crops all day. And you'd still have the parents who coddle/support that behavior. So in the end, the only ones hurt are the small biz owner and the illegal immigrant who is sending money home to feed his family who might otherwise not be able to eat.

 

I still don't see who it helps?

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Because many of these businesses cannot afford to pay what Americans want to be paid. So say the rubber meets the road, you would have the businesses going under and the kids still sitting at home on the Xbox not willing to pick crops all day. And you'd still have the parents who coddle/support that behavior. So in the end, the only ones hurt are the small biz owner and the illegal immigrant who is sending money home to feed his family who might otherwise not be able to eat.

 

I still don't see who it helps?

If your business' success depends on illegal labor you've already failed. Better to shutter it now than continue to tax an already over burdened system.

 

I don't give a wet fart about the illegal immigrant's family back home when their ability to eat comes at the expense of the American tax payer.

 

If I have to pay a few more bucks for bell peppers and broccoli, so be it.

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They are vital to the economy and the whole thing would be in dire trouble without illegals. They are the backbone of California which is the 5th biggest economy in THE WORLD.

 

You guys are so wrapped up in your hate and TDS that you cant see the entire point of America is immigration. Immigrants, both legal and illegal, are what makes the country go.

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They are vital to the economy and the whole thing would be in dire trouble without illegals. They are the backbone of California which is the 5th biggest economy in THE WORLD.

 

You guys are so wrapped up in your hate and TDS that you cant see the entire point of America is immigration. Immigrants, both legal and illegal, are what makes the country go.

They aren't though. We could get along just fine without illegals. It would be a little rough at first but we'd survive.

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They aren't though. We could get along just fine without illegals. It would be a little rough at first but we'd survive.

We prob would survive and adapt, its just hard to say. So many jobs at the bottom that they do, not just Mexicans either.

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If your business' success depends on illegal labor you've already failed. Better to shutter it now than continue to tax an already over burdened system.

 

I don't give a wet fart about the illegal immigrant's family back home when their ability to eat comes at the expense of the American tax payer.

 

If I have to pay a few more bucks for bell peppers and broccoli, so be it.

 

I see the point. Raise the price of the goods to enable raising the wages to employ and pay people a living wage. But getting there would be very painful. I believe the term economists use when talking about stuff like wages and cost of goods is pegged. Meaning they will change but the change will lag the overall economy and system. Or something to that effect.

 

Basically it boils down to this, the biz owner will not take the risk of paying more hoping he can sell his goods for more. He will close up shop instead. Just look at the fast food industry. It is a race to the bottom, replacing workers with machines. Only Chic Fila is different. Right now its working for them. The good press and good service has people standing in line. But are they profitable yet? How long is the wait? They already have the stiffest requirements of any franchise. They require owners to be high net worth and have a lot of skin in the game. Not sure that works for the system as a whole.

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Many businesses, especially small businesses, rely on cheap illegal labor.

Wrong

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I see the point. Raise the price of the goods to enable raising the wages to employ and pay people a living wage.

Not to ignore the rest of your point but this right here is the problem as I see it.

 

Minimum wage isn't supposed to be a "living wage". It's supposed to be a starting point for people with little or no education and/or experience. It's for high school and college age kids to make a few bucks and learn how to be a valuable asset to a future employer. You aren't supposed to try to raise a family on $12 or $15 an hour.

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actually they dont do them for less than what Americans will do them for

 

for example your average home depot illegal worker makes tax free 90-160$ a day

 

 

Need context here (situation/location/etc). I personally know of a company I sell to that hires illegals at about 40% under market rate for the jobs they fill. And they are one of the fastest growing in their particular segment/industry.

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Not to ignore the rest of your point but this right here is the problem as I see it.

 

Minimum wage isn't supposed to be a "living wage". It's supposed to be a starting point for people with little or no education and/or experience. It's for high school and college age kids to make a few bucks and learn how to be a valuable asset to a future employer. You aren't supposed to try to raise a family on $12 or $15 an hour.

 

Problem is those mid and upper level jobs are the area hardest hit by the 2008 crash and aren't coming back anytime soon. In fact I know several collogues who recently got the axe and in their search were unable to find anything near what they made before. Many having to settle for half or two thirds of what they made.

 

So not much there in terms of upward mobility. The days of grinding at a company for 15 years to hit that six figure salary are almost gone. Which is why Walmart is the nations largest employer by a large margin.

 

That leaves people to starting their own business as a means to that end. Now you want to tell them they can't hire illegals or cut corners to make a buck?

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Almost the samething that happened the last time we took the Democrats slaves away.

 

Services like construction, cleaning and other low wage jobs will increase in cost

 

Americans in those jobs will see higher incomes because slaves illegal immigrants won't be able to drive those wages down.

 

Our social services will see a drastic cut too thanks to less illegal immigrants receiving benefits.

 

Teachers will get hit hard at first due to loss of children to educate; however their wages will increase due to again less illegals sucking up services they don't pay for.

 

Renters on the southern boarder will get crushed

 

Basically if your business breaks the law and employs illegal immigrants you will get hit hard, and rightfully so.

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Problem is those mid and upper level jobs are the area hardest hit by the 2008 crash and aren't coming back anytime soon. In fact I know several collogues who recently got the axe and in their search were unable to find anything near what they made before. Many having to settle for half or two thirds of what they made.

 

So not much there in terms of upward mobility. The days of grinding at a company for 15 years to hit that six figure salary are almost gone. Which is why Walmart is the nations largest employer by a large margin.

 

That leaves people to starting their own business as a means to that end.

Now you want to tell them they can't hire illegals or cut corners to make a buck?
Yes.

 

I know first hand about those struggles. My wife and I both got laid off, within a week of each other, in 2016. We tried to start a business but the regulations involved were such that it made it next to impossible to be profitable enough to make the venture feasible. We could have cut corners, like many do, but we wanted to be legit. We are still looking for work and living off of savings and investments to this day. Probably going to have to sell the house and move out of state at this point.

 

That isn't, nor should it be, your problem. I wouldn't want you to, nor will I allow you to, subsidize my existence. That isn't the American way.

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If we limit illegal immigration in a serious way, how do think it will affect the economy?

 

I know it would cripple California for sure and probably seriously damage Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas economy. What about the rest of the country?

 

I haven't heard anyone bring this up in the discussion. Just a bunch of rhetoric, on both sides. But the implications would certainly be drastic and I think it should be considered. Much like Ron Paul's "lets cut the military in half" idea. It makes sense and sounds good on the surface. But drastic changes like these could cause another huge recession.

 

What say you?

Stopping new illegals from entering this country does nothing to the millions who are already here. I suppose the same Jose and Maria who picked your cotton today will be able to pick your cotton tomorrow.

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Lol you're funny. American kids won't even flip burgers for 15 bucks an hour. You seriously think they're going to pick crops for 8?

Honestly I would rather have illegals than the worthless soy drinking future sjws that most liberals are raising.

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What's not getting reported is that for every so called illegal that comes here via the non wall? There's a million Asians and others who come here, overstay their visas and there is absolutely no enforcement of that. That's the Dirty Little Secret of all this. Talk to any intelligent immigration official and they'll confirm this. There is literally zero budget to chase these fuckers down.

 

If you think this so-called plan isn't simplistic and racist, youre too fuccking stupid to read an article or open your eyes.

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What's not getting reported is that for every so called illegal that comes here via the non wall? There's a million Asians and others who come here, overstay their visas and there is absolutely no enforcement of that. That's the Dirty Little Secret of all this. Talk to any intelligent immigration official and they'll confirm this. There is literally zero budget to chase these fuckers down.

 

If you think this so-called plan isn't simplistic and racist, youre too fuccking stupid to read an article or open your eyes.

 

not true, its over 70% coming from the south border

 

as far as asians, they contribute, but ban them too

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What's not getting reported is that for every so called illegal that comes here via the non wall? There's a million Asians and others who come here, overstay their visas

Quite the opposite, actually.

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The only industry that will seriously be hurt is agriculture. I imagine a lot of companies would go out of business and the price of produce would skyrocket. Eventually a lot of grocery items would either vanish or become luxury items.

 

I can imagine a world without out of season peaches. Paying $6 for a head of lettuce would hurt.

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The only industry that will seriously be hurt is agriculture. I imagine a lot of companies would go out of business and the price of produce would skyrocket. Eventually a lot of grocery items would either vanish or become luxury items.

 

I can imagine a world without out of season peaches. Paying $6 for a head of lettuce would hurt.

The Service and Hospitality industries would suffer as well. Not that it would kill people to eat out less, maintain their yards and do their own laundry for a change.
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The Service and Hospitality industries would suffer as well. Not that it would kill people to eat out less, maintain their yards and do their own laundry for a change.

 

Yep restaurants. I know people who have owned them who said without illegals they couldn't stay open. Margins are slim. Which begs the question, why would anyone want to own a restaurant? Pure vanity project IMO.

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The only industry that will seriously be hurt is agriculture. I imagine a lot of companies would go out of business and the price of produce would skyrocket. Eventually a lot of grocery items would either vanish or become luxury items.

 

I can imagine a world without out of season peaches. Paying $6 for a head of lettuce would hurt.

 

Millions of peaches, peaches for free, Millions of peaches, peaches for me

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What's not getting reported is that for every so called illegal that comes here via the non wall? There's a million Asians and others who come here, overstay their visas and there is absolutely no enforcement of that. That's the Dirty Little Secret of all this. Talk to any intelligent immigration official and they'll confirm this. There is literally zero budget to chase these fuckers down.

 

If you think this so-called plan isn't simplistic and racist, youre too fuccking stupid to read an article or open your eyes.

 

Not sure about this. Don't really know any Asians currently over staying their visas. Never the less, we all know which ethnicity Miss Trump was referencing in her now infamous speech (yes I referred to trump as a female because she acts like a b!tch on her period, not like a man :D ).

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