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bigken

Would you take Tom Brady at 1.1, why or why not?

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I've never taken a qb in the first round, but after the year Brady and the Pats had last year I'd consider him.

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No, because taking a QB that high is stupid.

 

Plus, as a general rule, taking anyone with such a high pick that had such a monster year the year prior is just asking for disappointment. I'm not saying Brady is going to have a bad year by any stretch of the imagination, but I do think that he comes back to some semblance of reality. If he does, then you've been burned by taking him at 1.1. There's just too many other options available in that slot for that pick to make any sense.

 

LT2 last year may be the only exception that I can think of in recent memory, but even he had a much more human year last year.

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:music_guitarred:

 

 

I don't think Brady will have the same numbers. His numbers will resemble the rest of the top performing QB's. Look at what Manning did in his record breaking year and then look at his number the year after that.

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no, no, no

 

here is my reason

 

Manning 2004 49tds, 2005 28tds

Marino 1984 48 tds, 1985 30tds

Marino 1986 44 tds, 1987 26tds

Warner 1999 41 tds, 2000 21tds

 

Brady 2007 50 tds, 2008 ......

 

Im not saying he wont be the top QB but 35 td's would be a reach if history continues to repeat. Marino was the only 40+td guy to followup with even 30

 

Brady 1.1 35 tds

Manning 2.1 28 tds

Romo 3.1 30 tds

Brees 4.1 28 tds

Roth 5.1 31 tds

 

those are my predictions on how many TD's each QB will throw and approx where I see them Drafted, Gimme LT, SJax, ADP and Rothlis anyday over Brady and TJones

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In a 10 team league I could see someone trying it out. If Brady is someone you really want, than try it. But I would grab 2 rb's with picks 2 and 3. There should still be solid rb's there at that point in a 10 team league. In a 12 team league I wouldn't even think about taking a qb that early. The best thing would be to wait, but if Brady is who you really want than take him. He most likely won't be there by the time your 2nd and 3rd picks come around.

 

Good Luck!

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if you dont take LT2 at #1 in a redraft you are stupid. just my opinion.

 

with the #1 pick Romo will be available at the end of the 2nd, most likely.

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if you dont take LT2 at #1 in a redraft you are stupid. just my opinion.

 

with the #1 pick Romo will be available at the end of the 2nd, most likely.

 

Or you can get even better value grabbing Brees in the 3rd.

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Or you can get even better value grabbing Brees in the 3rd.

 

This is the real reason. Say Brady goes off and scores like he did last year. You take him 1st overall. But you have to take subpar running backs, and a QB like Brees in the 3rd or 4th has a smaller scoring margin to Brady. Whats the difference between the 10th best RB and LT2? Alot more than between Brady at #1 and a QB you get in round 3.

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This is the real reason. Say Brady goes off and scores like he did last year. You take him 1st overall. But you have to take subpar running backs, and a QB like Brees in the 3rd or 4th has a smaller scoring margin to Brady. Whats the difference between the 10th best RB and LT2? Alot more than between Brady at #1 and a QB you get in round 3.

 

 

Good point, Sweedness. Appreciate everybody elses comments too.

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i dont know what to say......all i know is Qb's outscore rb's and wr's by a HUGE margin

 

 

what rb do you know will ever get 3000+ yds and 30+ td's?

 

 

 

if your scoring is 6pts for all td's

 

 

last year in my league brady finish with 743 pts

LT- 285

 

 

crap even my boy Vince Young had 338

 

 

now i know total pts mean sh!t if they arent consistant week by week........but still

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I've never taken a qb in the first round, but after the year Brady and the Pats had last year I'd consider him.

 

You're an idiot if you'd consider this lol. Brady had a miraculous year, but look at this (I don't have the actualy #'s in front of me anymore) -

 

The last 4 quarterbacks to throw for 40+ TDs were Manning, Warner, Marino, and Culpepper. If you take each of those 4 quarterbacks' following season production (even pro-rating Warner's production from 11 games over a full season), they DROPPED OFF ON AVERAGE OF 37%. 37%!!!!! Following each of those seasons's (not sure if they had Fantasy Football around when Marino played lol) but Manning Culpepper and Warner were all touted as early 1st round selections. Granted they will produce towards the top of the QB list, but the point is: expecting an encore season out of Brady is simply foolish. Even projecting just a 30% decrease, and Brady throws 35 TDs and 4,000 yards. Great numbers, and prolly QB #1, but worth a top pick in the draft?? No...Also consider that if he goes back to his normal self this year (3,800 and 24), he's nothing more than a 3rd or 4th round pick...Don't jump on the bandwagon and stick to RB RB or RB WR...

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I've never taken a qb in the first round, but after the year Brady and the Pats had last year I'd consider him.

 

We have an opening in our league...

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Or you can get even better value grabbing Brees in the 3rd.

except his third round pick is 3.1. better value from Brees at 3.1 vs. Romo at 2.12, i dont think so.

 

of course i'm just a biased Cowboys fan who thinks Romo will have a better yr than Brees. :rolleyes:

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last year in my league brady finish with 743 pts

LT- 285

crap even my boy Vince Young had 338

 

WTF kind of scoring system do you have?!?!? Vince Young outscores LT?? Do they award 100 bonus points for being an overrated quarterback with terrible accuracy and injury problems? Or maybe its (-)50 points to the running back who finishes with the most yards and TDs??

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if you dont take LT2 at #1 in a redraft you are stupid. just my opinion.

 

with the #1 pick Romo will be available at the end of the 2nd, most likely.

 

This was my stratagy a few months ago but in resent Mock Drafts I have seen Romo go as high as 12/13 so this stratagy may not be valid anymore.

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i dont know what to say......all i know is Qb's outscore rb's and wr's by a HUGE margin

what rb do you know will ever get 3000+ yds and 30+ td's?

if your scoring is 6pts for all td's

last year in my league brady finish with 743 pts

LT- 285

crap even my boy Vince Young had 338

now i know total pts mean sh!t if they arent consistant week by week........but still

 

 

People with weird scoring have to interpret for themselves. In my league through week 16:

 

Brady 359

Romo 304

 

Westbrook 350

LT 346

 

Moss 356

TO 303

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I've got a feeling that Dollar Bill Belicheck and Brady are going to have a chip on their shoulders this year. They're coming off of spygate and they lost their perfect season in the Superbowl. I wouldn't be suprised if they run the score up in every game this year.

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except his third round pick is 3.1. better value from Brees at 3.1 vs. Romo at 2.12, i dont think so.

 

of course i'm just a biased Cowboys fan who thinks Romo will have a better yr than Brees. :dunno:

 

No, you're right, good point. I don't think Romo will have too much of a better season then Brees, but there is no way he'd be able to land Brees in the 4th. Romo on the snake would be the way to go.

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No because he is not the number 1 player on the board.

What does this mean? Maybe Brady is the number one player on the OP's board. Just because a few websites and magazines say that LT or AP should be the number one pick does not make it so.

 

ETA: if you are just gonna go by what everyone else thinks then why do any analysis or even think for yourself. Just be a sheep, print out a cheatsheet from a website or take a magazine to your draft, and go down the line.

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What does this mean? Maybe Brady is the number one player on the OP's board. Just because a few websites and magazines say that LT or AP should be the number one pick does not make it so.

 

 

OK, he is not the number one player on my board. He asked "would you take Tom Brady at 1.1, why or why not?

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I'm not saying that Brady will match what he did last year, but pulling up Mannings or even Marino's stats from years past has absolutely no correlation or causitation to how Brady and the Pat's will perform this year. If your opinion is that he will have a severe letdown, then fine, but don't presume to explain it by throwing out stats from years ago that have absolutely no bearing on the 2008 season. We are talking about a different player, in a different year, with a different coach, on a different team ect. ect.

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I've got a question. Why are people still enamored with the RB/RB start to a draft? It's as if you guys took the past couple seasons off of playing Fantasy Football. Even the studs projected at the top will split carries more and more this season. It is a bonafide trend in the NFL (RBBC). The old "RB/RB" drafting stratagy is as outdated as the typewriter.

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WOW, with all the cliched responses you are getting you'd think people actually forget to look at numbers and stats. Based on VBD Brady is certainly a consideration for the #1 pick. Yes, his numbers will most likely drop off but he could still throw 38-40 TD's no problem this year.

 

Is there any reason to think they won't be as prolific as last year. I am sure Beliprick will throw in some wrinkles to the offense that might balance his production out a little bit but really, Maroney isn't going to be featured in that offense.

 

Also, consider that your first pick is supposed to be a sure. You don't win championships with your first pick but you can lose them. Is there any safer pick than Brady with the #1 pick. No injury history, same supporting staff etc.

 

LT is coming off an injury and everyone has him as the #1 pick. ADP certainly got hurt last year and has an injury history.

Plus we also saw the likes of Earnest Graham, Ryan Grant and a few others come onto the seen and do quite well.

 

So Brady #1 is not such a bad idea.

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Depends on the scoring structure.

 

Most leagues...hell no.

 

My league..hell yes. (yards and tds worth the same for any position QB/RB/WR/TE).

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I'm not saying that Brady will match what he did last year, but pulling up Mannings or even Marino's stats from years past has absolutely no correlation or causitation to how Brady and the Pat's will perform this year. If your opinion is that he will have a severe letdown, then fine, but don't presume to explain it by throwing out stats from years ago that have absolutely no bearing on the 2008 season. We are talking about a different player, in a different year, with a different coach, on a different team ect. ect.

 

 

There is a correlation - you guys act as if teams don't change during the offseason, and that everything picks up right where it's left off from the end of last year. The reality is, teams have already been preparing for months on how to stop the Patriots. It happens every year within divisions, the bottom three teams build their teams around how to stop the best. A statistical explosion like Brady's season is just that, a statistical explosion. I'm not saying Brady will be less talented less year, but every team on their schedule has penciled in New England and will institute a serious gameplan on how to slow down their passing game. You really think Manning was 20 TDs worse in '05 after his 49TD season in '04? NO - but the teams they played try to take away that option. It has been PROVEN by looking at nearly every statistical outlier over the past years. Someone mentioned the HUGE/SIGNIFICANT dropoff from QBs after huge years. Also, look at Harrison after his 143 catch season, Preist Holmes after his reign, Alexander after his record season, and LT last year. It just cant be duplicated, teams and coaching staffs are too smart around the league to just sit back and get burnt from Brady to Moss again...he'll throw 4000 and 30-35

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There is a correlation - you guys act as if teams don't change during the offseason, and that everything picks up right where it's left off from the end of last year. The reality is, teams have already been preparing for months on how to stop the Patriots. It happens every year within divisions, the bottom three teams build their teams around how to stop the best. A statistical explosion like Brady's season is just that, a statistical explosion. I'm not saying Brady will be less talented less year, but every team on their schedule has penciled in New England and will institute a serious gameplan on how to slow down their passing game. You really think Manning was 20 TDs worse in '05 after his 49TD season in '04? NO - but the teams they played try to take away that option. It has been PROVEN by looking at nearly every statistical outlier over the past years. Someone mentioned the HUGE/SIGNIFICANT dropoff from QBs after huge years. Also, look at Harrison after his 143 catch season, Preist Holmes after his reign, Alexander after his record season, and LT last year. It just cant be duplicated, teams and coaching staffs are too smart around the league to just sit back and get burnt from Brady to Moss again...he'll throw 4000 and 30-35

You need to go and look up what the word "proven" means. A couple quaterbacks in the past has absolutely no causitation to predicting the future performance of Tom Brady in 2008.

 

This is akin to you flipping a coin 9 times and it lands on heads all nine times, then you posting how you KNOW it will land on tails because it is due to happen. Nope, the 10th flip is totally seperate from the other 9 flips and is still 50/50. The past history has no bearing. Just as what Manning did years ago has no bearing on what Brady does this year. That is a complete fallacy.

 

Do I think Brady will match or surpass last years performance? No

 

But do I think he will still have a monster year in comparison to QB play in the NFL and outscore the 2nd tier of QB's by a larger percentage than LT or ADP will outscore the 2nd and 3rd teir RB's? You betcha.

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You need to go and look up what the word "proven" means. A couple quaterbacks in the past has absolutely no causitation to predicting the future performance of Tom Brady in 2008.

 

This is akin to you flipping a coin 9 times and it lands on heads all nine times, then you posting how you KNOW it will land on tails because it is due to happen. Nope, the 10th flip is totally seperate from the other 9 flips and is still 50/50. The past history has no bearing. Just as what Manning did years ago has no bearing on what Brady does this year. That is a complete fallacy.

 

Do I think Brady will match or surpass last years performance? No

 

But do I think he will still have a monster year in comparison to QB play in the NFL and outscore the 2nd tier of QB's by a larger percentage than LT or ADP will outscore the 2nd and 3rd teir RB's? You betcha.

 

See this is your problem: you think the probability and success of Brady (and every other qb) is based on a coin flip?!?!?!? THIS IS NOT ABOUT FLIPPING A COIN...You're telling me you don't see a trend in data? A few Quarterbacks?? We are comparing him to the only other 4 quarterbacks with this kind of a season. You know what everyone said after thier respective seasons?? Should be a top 3 pick for Manning Warner Culpepper etc. just like everyone is saying about Brady. Did you ignore the part about ADJUSTMENTS?? It's a big part of the game, so stop flipping coins and rationalize why record-breaking seasons HAVE NEVER REPEATED THEMSELVES....

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I completely agree with the people that say it depends. Be careful before you call someone stupid (especially if you are one of the guys who likes to call other people stupid and not back it up with facts). In my work league, the commish has a very different scoring system, and Brady ended up with 400 pts more than the next highest rated person (Brees). LT2 didn't even make the top 5, so in something like that I would say looking at any of the top 5 QBs in the first couple of rounds makes sense. Most leagues, decent RBs not in RBBC are more crucial and worth waiting for the 4th-6th ranked QB.

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Depends on the scoring structure.

 

Most leagues...hell no.

 

My league..hell yes. (yards and tds worth the same for any position QB/RB/WR/TE).

 

big D, please share the thinking behind your emphatic "hell yes". My league counts yds and tds as the same for any position as well.

 

I'm particularly interested because my league changed to a keeper format (one player) starting this year. There's a team that has LT and Brady and he won't be able to keep both. I have the first draft pick. Word on the streets this weekend was that that team is going to keep Brady and dump LT. I'm thinking that his mindset is close to yours -- and maybe mine since I've been inexplicably bummed about missing out on Brady since I heard the keeper scuttlebutt --- so I'm curious to hear what your reasoning is regarding the scoring set up of a league and potential dividends Brady offers.

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This is akin to you flipping a coin 9 times and it lands on heads all nine times, then you posting how you KNOW it will land on tails because it is due to happen. Nope, the 10th flip is totally seperate from the other 9 flips and is still 50/50. The past history has no bearing. Just as what Manning did years ago has no bearing on what Brady does this year. That is a complete fallacy.

 

 

You couldn't be more wrong. :rolleyes:

 

A QB performing to those stats is not a random event that is just as likely to happen as it is likely to not happen. There are many more variables that influence a QB duplicating those stats than there are in flipping a coin.

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will there be a dropoff in brady's stats?

 

1---it depends on whether he raises his game to the truly next level, which is ultimate game management. we have coined the phrase "game manager" as a brad johnson/dilfer2000/garrard type who doesnt make mistakes and blow the game as a means to 'manage' it. what im referring to is what manning developed from 2004 until 2008. he has learned to mentally script and unfold the game as it progresses on a possession basis, team-by-team and efficiency-wise. he understands playcalling and time as ingredients to this management, and uses them to steer the opportunities for both his team and opponents, and in the end, the points on the scoreboard. example: edgerrin posted 1500yds the super2004 campaign, including 8 100-yd games, with a 200yd show among them; in 2005, when manning accepted that defenses were dropping 8 back, he changed to run calls and allowed edgerrin another 1500yds, including 9 100-yd games, with 5 120+yd efforts. this management and acceptance to his ego has allowed the defense rest and improvement. manning knows he can maintain his high throttle-fast score approach, but this new approach rests his defense and wears out the opponents'.

 

2---the pats last yr kept the throttle down, even in the super bowl. many propose they looked like the 2001rams whom they disposed: martz arrogant that his pass attack will reign supreme versus a tough defense, despite having an additional super weapon named marshall faulk in the arsenal. belichick and the playcalling clearly leaned on the pass, with an arrogant vibe that "it only takes one of these bombs to connect, change the score, momentum, and deflate the underdog giants". now, maroney is no marshall faulk, but we hear a lot in football about "commitment to the run". we see that despite averaging low yds-per-carry, attempting to run keeps the defense guessing, balanced, and tired. it sometimes is necessary and essential depending upon game situation and scenario. their 48/14 pass/run ratio in the SB was certainly along these lines. will 2008 be different? will he change their approach and game design, or continue to disdainfully throw against pass rushes and coverages even more geared to slow them?

 

3---if these type changes occur, and going against prior posters and using past examples to predict future performance for the pats, then the 2008pats may resemble the 2005colts, where the overall offense dipped 10TDs, the pass offense dipped 20TDs, but the run offense gained 10TDs;yet, as previously stated, i agree that there is no denying that belichick and the philosophy of 2007 could remian intact, and bombing/scoring/not caring about public opinion could continue.

 

 

that being the case, i think he warrants consideration as first overall pick, but should be lower on the short list of candidates.

 

[as an aside, to the notion "defenses wont 'allow' brady/moss hookups"----defenses dont exactly have a choice regarding moss/TO: its gonna happen, always has. its not like after 1998 the entire league didnt understand "this tall fast guy catches long TDs, so we better cover deep and use 2-3 guys on him..." and it tempered his career stats. it may not be 23 again, but it has 90+% chance to be an ultra 15+. :( ]

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will there be a dropoff in brady's stats?

 

1---it depends on whether he raises his game to the truly next level, which is ultimate game management. we have coined the phrase "game manager" as a brad johnson/dilfer2000/garrard type who doesnt make mistakes and blow the game as a means to 'manage' it. what im referring to is what manning developed from 2004 until 2008. he has learned to mentally script and unfold the game as it progresses on a possession basis, team-by-team and efficiency-wise. he understands playcalling and time as ingredients to this management, and uses them to steer the opportunities for both his team and opponents, and in the end, the points on the scoreboard. example: edgerrin posted 1500yds the super2004 campaign, including 8 100-yd games, with a 200yd show among them; in 2005, when manning accepted that defenses were dropping 8 back, he changed to run calls and allowed edgerrin another 1500yds, including 9 100-yd games, with 5 120+yd efforts. this management and acceptance to his ego has allowed the defense rest and improvement. manning knows he can maintain his high throttle-fast score approach, but this new approach rests his defense and wears out the opponents'.

 

2---the pats last yr kept the throttle down, even in the super bowl. many propose they looked like the 2001rams whom they disposed: martz arrogant that his pass attack will reign supreme versus a tough defense, despite having an additional super weapon named marshall faulk in the arsenal. belichick and the playcalling clearly leaned on the pass, with an arrogant vibe that "it only takes one of these bombs to connect, change the score, momentum, and deflate the underdog giants". now, maroney is no marshall faulk, but we hear a lot in football about "commitment to the run". we see that despite averaging low yds-per-carry, attempting to run keeps the defense guessing, balanced, and tired. it sometimes is necessary and essential depending upon game situation and scenario. their 48/14 pass/run ratio in the SB was certainly along these lines. will 2008 be different? will he change their approach and game design, or continue to disdainfully throw against pass rushes and coverages even more geared to slow them?

 

3---if these type changes occur, and going against prior posters and using past examples to predict future performance for the pats, then the 2008pats may resemble the 2005colts, where the overall offense dipped 10TDs, the pass offense dipped 20TDs, but the run offense gained 10TDs;yet, as previously stated, i agree that there is no denying that belichick and the philosophy of 2007 could remian intact, and bombing/scoring/not caring about public opinion could continue.

that being the case, i think he warrants consideration as first overall pick, but should be lower on the short list of candidates.

 

[as an aside, to the notion "defenses wont 'allow' brady/moss hookups"----defenses dont exactly have a choice regarding moss/TO: its gonna happen, always has. its not like after 1998 the entire league didnt understand "this tall fast guy catches long TDs, so we better cover deep and use 2-3 guys on him..." and it tempered his career stats. it may not be 23 again, but it has 90+% chance to be an ultra 15+. :thumbsup: ]

 

 

1- I think that ultimate game management means fewer pass attempts which means more ball control. The ultimate game manager understands the importance of the run and time of possesion. The ultimate game manager runs the ball when the defense drops 8 in coverage. And when the defense blitzes, the ultimate game manager throws short quick passes not deep passes to Moss. So if you agree with this then it is natural that Brady's stats go down and Maroney's stats go up.

 

2- I think that *belicheat will come to his senses and realize that he won all those *superbowls with ultimate game management: a strong run game and good defense. So I think that Brady's number will go down and Maroneys numbers will go up.

 

3- I agree, ball control- a strong running game and an efficient (net high scoring) offense coupled with a good defense is the most common recipe to winning a superbowl. Manning couldn't win a superbowl by throwing almost 50 td passes and Brady couldn't win a superbowl throwing as many td's as he did. I think the *pats go back to a VERY balanced offense- which means Brady's numbers will go down and Maroney's will go up.

 

I think that Moss' virtual disappearance in the post season shows how defenses can take Moss out of the game.

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Would you take Tom Brady at 1.1, why or why not?

 

 

Because the scoring gap between LT and the RB available on your next pick is MUCH larger than the gap between Brady and the QB available on your next pick.

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Depends on the scoring structure.

 

Most leagues...hell no.

 

My league..hell yes. (yards and tds worth the same for any position QB/RB/WR/TE).

 

 

 

exactly what i said, my league is just like this

 

 

everyone is 1 for 10 and 6pts for TD's......and no penalty for ints', fumbles etc...

 

 

 

so qb's are HUGE scorers

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You couldn't be more wrong. :wub:

 

A QB performing to those stats is not a random event that is just as likely to happen as it is likely to not happen. There are many more variables that influence a QB duplicating those stats than there are in flipping a coin.

Wrong. If you are talking about the same player in a different year I would agree because there is a constant (the player). However, all the variables you speak of, with it being a totally different player as the main one, seperates him from Manning or Marino or whothefockever. HTH

 

The league is different, the coaches are different, the opposition is different, the feilds are different, there will be different injuries, the o-lines are different, the d-lines are different, the wr's are different, the technology is different, the rules are different, ect. ect. How Petyon Manning played in 2005 has absolutely no bearing or predetermination whatsoever on how Tom Brady will perform in 2008.

 

Like I said, if you think Brady will have a significant dropoff this year that is all good, but don't act as if you can somehow prove it.

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will there be a dropoff in brady's stats?

 

1---it depends on whether he raises his game to the truly next level, which is ultimate game management. we have coined the phrase "game manager" as a brad johnson/dilfer2000/garrard type who doesnt make mistakes and blow the game as a means to 'manage' it. what im referring to is what manning developed from 2004 until 2008. he has learned to mentally script and unfold the game as it progresses on a possession basis, team-by-team and efficiency-wise. he understands playcalling and time as ingredients to this management, and uses them to steer the opportunities for both his team and opponents, and in the end, the points on the scoreboard. example: edgerrin posted 1500yds the super2004 campaign, including 8 100-yd games, with a 200yd show among them; in 2005, when manning accepted that defenses were dropping 8 back, he changed to run calls and allowed edgerrin another 1500yds, including 9 100-yd games, with 5 120+yd efforts. this management and acceptance to his ego has allowed the defense rest and improvement. manning knows he can maintain his high throttle-fast score approach, but this new approach rests his defense and wears out the opponents'.

 

2---the pats last yr kept the throttle down, even in the super bowl. many propose they looked like the 2001rams whom they disposed: martz arrogant that his pass attack will reign supreme versus a tough defense, despite having an additional super weapon named marshall faulk in the arsenal. belichick and the playcalling clearly leaned on the pass, with an arrogant vibe that "it only takes one of these bombs to connect, change the score, momentum, and deflate the underdog giants". now, maroney is no marshall faulk, but we hear a lot in football about "commitment to the run". we see that despite averaging low yds-per-carry, attempting to run keeps the defense guessing, balanced, and tired. it sometimes is necessary and essential depending upon game situation and scenario. their 48/14 pass/run ratio in the SB was certainly along these lines. will 2008 be different? will he change their approach and game design, or continue to disdainfully throw against pass rushes and coverages even more geared to slow them?

 

3---if these type changes occur, and going against prior posters and using past examples to predict future performance for the pats, then the 2008pats may resemble the 2005colts, where the overall offense dipped 10TDs, the pass offense dipped 20TDs, but the run offense gained 10TDs;yet, as previously stated, i agree that there is no denying that belichick and the philosophy of 2007 could remian intact, and bombing/scoring/not caring about public opinion could continue.

that being the case, i think he warrants consideration as first overall pick, but should be lower on the short list of candidates.

 

[as an aside, to the notion "defenses wont 'allow' brady/moss hookups"----defenses dont exactly have a choice regarding moss/TO: its gonna happen, always has. its not like after 1998 the entire league didnt understand "this tall fast guy catches long TDs, so we better cover deep and use 2-3 guys on him..." and it tempered his career stats. it may not be 23 again, but it has 90+% chance to be an ultra 15+. :wub: ]

 

I like your post - but as for the last comment, I was one saying the defenses won't allow it...I should clarify because I didn't mean to make it sound like all of a sudden Moss won't score at all in 08, but i meant teams will make it extremely harder for him, especially in the redzone. You saw him over the past few games and in the playoffs, some teams had good success shutting him down - and the Pats looked vulnerable. I expect some of the same philosophies to carry over, as teams now will be focusing more and more on Moss and the Pats' passing game

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