Looks like Chicago is gonna burn next.......

[BLS 313]

Damn this insanity is good for business!!!

 

http://abc7chicago.com/news/cpd-dash-cam-video-shows-police-shooting-laquan-mcdonald/1098065/

 

 

 

[parrot 789]

Eh, wouldn't be the first time.

[Mungwater 588]

Chi-raq

 

[IGotWorms 3,310]

Video doesn't seem to show anything

[BLS 313]

From the one video I've seen, it does seem excessive.

 

Mmmm...Beer. What are the ROE in an instance where a man has a knife, but does not appear to attack anyone?

Does the Use of Force Continuum allow engagement?

[parrot 789]

I can't wait for the Phurboy post about Mrs. O'Leary's two cows.

[kilroy69 994]

I say we let Chicago,detroit,baltimore and Atlanta burn. raz it and build something good.

[IGotWorms 3,310]

Not sure what'll happen but this officer was charged with murder. So you'd think most people would accept that the process has been initiated and will now play out as it should

[rholio 339]

Shot 17 times... that's like a dozen too many.

[Mungwater 588]

I say we let Chicago,detroit,baltimore and Atlanta burn. raz it and build something good.

Can we let the Cubs win a World Series then burn it?

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

I say we let Chicago,detroit,baltimore and Atlanta burn. raz it and build something good.

I never go to Chicago even though its not that far (mileage wise) from my house. Traffic getting there from I55 is an absolute nightmare. Took me 2 hours and 45 mins to get down town when it snowed last winter. No traffic it probably takes 40 mins. Traffic once you get to the city is just as bad if not worse. Most things are expensive as hell. Yeah i stick to the burbs. The food is absolutely fantastic though.

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

Id say the cop being convicted of first degree murder got what he deserved. The officer had 18 complaints against him. The few bad cops out there are just as big of scumbags as the ones they arrest. Its sickening how the legal process protects them. Just like that cop who was drunk and beat the absolute shlt out of that female bartender half his size. There was a video of it and he still wasnt found guilty.

[mobb_deep 917]

Not sure what'll happen but this officer was charged with murder. So you'd think most people would accept that the process has been initiated and will now play out as it should

I think the AA community does not trust the legal system in its entirety. Rightfully so IMO.

[Sho Nuff 719]

Not sure what'll happen but this officer was charged with murder. So you'd think most people would accept that the process has been initiated and will now play out as it should

Family calling for calm...they didn't want the video out cause they knew what could happen.

 

Unfortunately there are people who don't think like them.

[MDC 5,890]

Watched the video. The guy made what could reasonably be described as an erratic movement but it's hard to say whether that was before or after being shot. He appeared to turn toward the cop and throw his arms up, then did a spin and fell down prone.

 

I think the initial shot could be justified, maybe even a second or third. Again without audio it's hard to tell but the way he went down if guess at least 10-12 of the bullets hit him while he was prone.

 

It will be really hard to explain this one and I'm sure that's why the PD paid the family $5m outright. I hope that and the murder charge is enough to keep any protests peaceful.

[IGotWorms 3,310]

Finally saw the video. Yeah that looks like murder

[mmmmm...beer 691]

Finally saw the video. Yeah that looks like murder

Shocking...

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

Watched the video. The guy made what could reasonably be described as an erratic movement but it's hard to say whether that was before or after being shot. He appeared to turn toward the cop and throw his arms up, then did a spin and fell down prone.

 

I think the initial shot could be justified, maybe even a second or third. Again without audio it's hard to tell but the way he went down if guess at least 10-12 of the bullets hit him while he was prone.

 

It will be really hard to explain this one and I'm sure that's why the PD paid the family $5m outright. I hope that and the murder charge is enough to keep any protests peaceful.

He only threw his arms up after he was shot. The guy was walking down a well lit street. The cop who shot him was a bad cop before this happened.

[TimmySmith 2,782]

Yet again, they go after 1st degree murder. Worms, on his worst day could get the cop off on this charge. Then come the riots. How about a charge that fits?

[KSB2424 3,083]

The officer was out of line based on the video I saw. Here is what is wrong:

 

1. This happened a year ago and not until the video came out was the officer charged. That's the BS part.

 

2. There is speculation that it was put under wraps because Rahm Emanual was in a run off election right at that time and this was just after Ferguson.

 

3. Second Degree Murder is the proper charge. I find it hard to believe they can prove 1st Degree.

 

4. The family was compensated 5 million for wrongful death or damages or whatever. They are calling for peace. That's the good part.

[BLS 313]

Not having watched the video.

 

Really depends on a hundred things, how the sh!t went down prior, prior contacts with the suspect... state of mind.. etc. but... if the bad guy has the means and if he's 7 steps from you a good knife man can stab you before you can shoot him from a holster. He doesn't have to be like actively attacking you with it.

 

Plus... ever try to shoot a moving target... like diagnolly? Not easy with a handgun.

 

Also the old "use of Force continum" is gonzo... what we look at now is... was the amount of Force use "objectionably reasonable"? Meaning if you as a person with the same training and experience were put in the exact same scenerio is how he reacted reasonable? Can you see yourself doing xyz... if you were tired from fighting like him? If it was dark? If you were scared for your life? etc... no armchair qb'ing... it's not if you would do the exact same thing... it's if given the same circumstances you could see the outcome as reasonable with those exact factors.

 

The old use of force model with the steps and colors was getting our guys killed. It was confusing as fock. Guys didn't know where they were supposed to be on that thing as every situation doesn't fit in a checkbox.

 

I'm familiar with the 21ft rule/Tueller Drill; it's something I teach each week in classes.

And I agree he's an immediate threat (means/opportunity). From what I gather, he was called in to police for acting erratic and slashing tires on vehicles. Tox came back later he was high on PCP.

 

So, according to the video I believe that the officer was justified in shooting the perp. It's clear he had a knife and was acting erratic.

When presented with deadly force, you skip the taser/OC.

 

I guess my issue is I'm always teaching the student to "fire until the threat is stopped". Once they no longer pose a threat, you are required to stop shooting.

 

It's clear that someone continued to fire as this perp was on the ground and did not appear to be making any threatening movements.

I don't know what you charge someone with for excessive use of force, but I don't see how it's not excessive use. If I were a juror, I would have to hear a pretty strong argument as to why he continued to fire upon a man who was down on the street and had been for a few seconds with little to no movement. Hard to argue that he was an immediate threat.

 

Thoughts?

[TimmySmith 2,782]

 

It's clear that someone continued to fire as this perp was on the ground and did not appear to be making any threatening movements.

I don't know what you charge someone with for excessive use of force, but I don't see how it's not excessive use. If I were a juror, I would have to hear a pretty strong argument as to why he continued to fire upon a man who was down on the street and had been for a few seconds with little to no movement. Hard to argue that he was an immediate threat.

 

Thoughts?

All the defense has to present is that somewhere along the way in his training, somebody told him to fire until the threat was completely neutralized. Gray area, judgement call, training = reasonable doubt for murder 1.

[BLS 313]

All the defense has to present is that somewhere along the way in his training, somebody told him to fire until the threat was completely neutralized. Gray area, judgement call, training = reasonable doubt for murder 1.

 

I'm in somewhat of an agreement with you. Not being a lawyer, I would say that many jurors would still think that he went too far; and should have known that.

 

I've got no dog in this fight. I'm not on either side in regards to this cop and his charges.

In my opinion, he's guilty of excessive use of force. But there's no way you can get this guy for Murder 1 unless you can PROVE he thought about it before hand. That's tough.

[TimmySmith 2,782]

In my opinion, he's guilty of excessive use of force.

If shooting him 1 time is excessive force, then maybe you have a point. However, if, in his training, he was told to shoot if he felt endangered, then it opens the door to as many shots as it takes to feel safe. Truthfully, 16 shots makes good news, but the 1st shot may have killed him.

[BLS 313]

If shooting him 1 time is excessive force, then maybe you have a point. However, if, in his training, he was told to shoot if he felt endangered, then it opens the door to as many shots as it takes to feel safe. Truthfully, 16 shots makes good news, but the 1st shot may have killed him.

 

With your line of thinking, there's no such thing as excessive force.

Doubtful the first shot killed him. There's no way to know which shot killed him. Could be the first, could be the last.

 

Excessive is subjective; and that'll be left to the courts.

[MDC 5,890]

He only threw his arms up after he was shot. The guy was walking down a well lit street. The cop who shot him was a bad cop before this happened.

The video I watched had no accompanying audio. It looked to me like he turned toward the cop and threw his arms up but without any sound it's hard to tell. I can tell there's no way that called for 16 bullets.

[peenie 1,690]

there should be something a police officer can shoot that will take a man down without killing him instantly.

what teenager takes angel dust???

that's a 70's drug.

[Mungwater 588]

17 times is quite a bit, but it's going to be hard to prove murder one. Is the DA up for election soon? Seems a lesser charge would be easier to convict, he's probably just grandstanding a bit for the papers.

[BLS 313]

there should be something a police officer can shoot that will take a man down without killing him instantly.

what teenager takes angel dust???

that's a 70's drug.

 

 

You have someone come at you with a knife and then have some ding-dong armchair QB suggest you use something that doesn't kill them. Because if you use a taser and it doesn't stop them, you've got a permanent wound or are possibly killed.

 

I'm sorry if I was a cop and they made us give up lethal force options, I'd freakin quit on the job that day.

[KSB2424 3,083]

17 times is quite a bit, but it's going to be hard to prove murder one. Is the DA up for election soon? Seems a lesser charge would be easier to convict, he's probably just grandstanding a bit for the papers.

 

This case had me thinking about what exactly are the proper charges in cases where police officer kills a person when its clear it wasn't "needed". Similar to this case.

 

It's a bit different than civilian on civilian crime in that law enforcement job is to put themselves in front of dangerous situations and criminals. So I have a hard time putting the same equilivance to civilan crimes on law enforcement for that fact alone.

 

Unless you can prove an officer woke up that day and said he was gonna kill somebody that day then at best its 2nd Degree imo

 

OR

 

more likely this cop just freaked (panicked) and shot in the heat of the moment. Still bad, still poorly trained, still a wrongful death but that is more in the manslaughter realm no?

[TimmySmith 2,782]

 

With your line of thinking, there's no such thing as excessive force.

Doubtful the first shot killed him. There's no way to know which shot killed him. Could be the first, could be the last.

 

Excessive is subjective; and that'll be left to the courts.

I think the 1st shot could be excessive, after that I am not sure. What is "reasonable and prudent" when faced with a knife wielding suspect who is not complying with your direction. Lots of wiggle room when it's murder 1.

[Big Guy 1,400]

Chicago burning would be a good place to start. Other than STYX & Deep Dish Pizza what good ever came out of it?

 

I've driven there only twice and almost got killed both times.

[Mungwater 588]

Chicago burning would be a good place to start. Other than STYX & Deep Dish Pizza what good ever came out of it?

 

I've driven there only twice and almost got killed both times.

That kick ass accent

[BLS 313]

Chicago burning would be a good place to start. Other than STYX & Deep Dish Pizza what good ever came out of it?

 

I've driven there only twice and almost got killed both times.

 

No way.

 

STYX is from Chicago?

 

Also, didn't 'Chicago' come from there as well? *(until Peter Cetera joined them, and ruined them totally)

[Big Guy 1,400]

 

No way.

 

STYX is from Chicago?

 

Also, didn't 'Chicago' come from there as well? *(until Peter Cetera joined them, and ruined them totally)

 

Yes.....and yeah agree on Chicago (band)

[vuduchile 1,941]

Chicago burning would be a good place to start. Other than STYX & Deep Dish Pizza what good ever came out of it?

 

I've driven there only twice and almost got killed both times.

Dumb

 

Chicago is one of the greatest all around cities in the world. It's only the bitter winter temps that keep the population under control. If it had a milder climate, it would be as crowded as Tokyo.

[vuduchile 1,941]

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jenniferschaffer/home-sweet-chicago#.inRdkPrnW

[Big Guy 1,400]

Dumb

 

Chicago is one of the greatest all around cities in the world. It's only the bitter winter temps that keep the population under control. If it had a milder climate, it would be as crowded as Tokyo.

 

Sorry, but the political corruption & gangs tarnish just about anything good in my eyes.

 

Cities in general suck, and it's one of the "greatest"

[MedStudent 56]

Dumb

 

Chicago is one of the greatest all around cities in the world. It's only the bitter winter temps that keep the population under control. If it had a milder climate, it would be as crowded as Tokyo.

 

 

I've lived in Boston and Los Angeles and vsited NYC many times. I have lived in Chicago since 2012. I don't know if I'll be here after 2016 but Chicago doesn't take a backseat to any City I've been to. Whoever lumped it in with Detroit and Baltimore is insane. Probably the best summer big city in the USA. Lots of street festivals with plenty of music and beer. Chicago has a great nightlife from dive bars to swanky nightclubs. It stays open late too. It has world class museums, theatre, and architecture. They have some of the best restaurants in the world. You could likely find a restaurant featuring the cuisine of almost any country in the world. As someone who came here at 26, this is a great city for someone in their mid twenties. It seems like a lot of people come here right after college and there is a big population within the city of professional people in their late 20's and early 30's.

[SUXBNME 1,325]

 

 

I've lived in Boston and Los Angeles and vsited NYC many times. I have lived in Chicago since 2012. I don't know if I'll be here after 2016 but Chicago doesn't take a backseat to any City I've been to. Whoever lumped it in with Detroit and Baltimore is insane. Probably the best summer big city in the USA. Lots of street festivals with plenty of music and beer. Chicago has a great nightlife from dive bars to swanky nightclubs. It stays open late too. It has world class museums, theatre, and architecture. They have some of the best restaurants in the world. You could likely find a restaurant featuring the cuisine of almost any country in the world. As someone who came here at 26, this is a great city for someone in their mid twenties. It seems like a lot of people come here right after college and there is a big population within the city of professional people in their late 20's and early 30's.

How's the pron star population in Chicago?