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penultimatestraw

Family Values

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One of the reasons I like this is us is because the dad isn't treated like a buffoon. And he's not a homosexual lesbian transgendered Satanist or what the hell ever.

 

The show should win an award just for making being a responsible father cool again.

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How drunk are you

 

Who is this directed to? Your lack of ability to quote makes me want to ask you the same question. :cheers:

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Apparently penny was right that incentivizing the nuclear family is more difficult than banning guns, because nobody here seems to have the slightest ability to have that discussion. :(

Why on earth would anyone want the focking government meddling in family matters?

 

In any event, the law is supposed to apply equally to all people. There shouldnt be benefits or disencentives for one lifestyle over another.

 

Not to mention... incentives wouldnt even work.

 

Guys who want to marry and have kids will regardless.

 

Shiftless pieces of crap that knock up a bunch of baby mommas and leave the kids in the wind arent going to suddenly become Walt cleaver because you give them a break on taxes they dont even pay anyway.

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Apparently penny was right that incentivizing the nuclear family is more difficult than banning guns, because nobody here seems to have the slightest ability to have that discussion. :(

:lol:

 

If a person decides NOT to have offspring, then you know what? Do whatever you want. Seriously thats a very personal choice, with no right or wrong answer.

 

BUT if you do decide to have kids. 1. Form a union with the other person. 2. Try like hell to keep that unit in place.

 

Obviously that isnt always the case, divorce happens. But couples that try and fail arent the problem. Its the scores of others that procreate without thinking twice about it .

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Why on earth would anyone want the focking government meddling in family matters?

 

In any event, the law is supposed to apply equally to all people. There shouldnt be benefits or disencentives for one lifestyle over another.

 

Not to mention... incentives wouldnt even work.

 

Guys who want to marry and have kids will regardless.

 

Shiftless pieces of crap that knock up a bunch of baby mommas and leave the kids in the wind arent going to suddenly become Walt cleaver because you give them a break on taxes they dont even pay anyway.

 

The focking government meddles in family matters; giving entitlements to out-of-wedlock children endorses such behavior. :dunno:

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I guess. But gotta feed the kids right?

 

Well... that's part of the difficult discussion. If it were easy we'd have done it already, right? But do we start phasing in a reduction in such entitlements?

 

Meh, to be honest, I'd rather focus on how we can make it cool to be a two-parent household, to be parents vs. friends, to hold kids accountable vs. blaming others for their failures, to instill a sense of pride in family, community, and country. :thumbsup:

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Speaking from personal experience, marriage and family commitments are just easier to walk away from.

 

Culturally, a shift occurred that I believe cant be walked back. Some of that is a result of people moving away from religion as a life influence.

 

But our nation is now too diverse to define culturally. There are only pockets of various cultural influences around the nation, and only some of those sub cultures really encourage family values.

 

Certain other cultures have gone the other way, and yet many other people dont associate with any particular sub culture at all. For those people, walking away from commitments is no big deal.

 

Bottom line. Peer pressure isnt always a bad thing.

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I guess. But gotta feed the kids right?

 

Let me quote you:

 

It isnt the governments place to incentivize one mode of life over another.

 

Their role is to generate revenue to perform their governmental functions. Thats it.

 

So, are you saying the government's function is to feed kids? If so, are we talking about all kids or just some? If just some, who decides which ones?

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Much of the familys problems can be traced to stagnant wages, which have forced women to work, forced everyone to work longer hours, and often second jobs.

 

 

If you truly believe this, you should be in favor of Trump's wall and ending illegal immigration. Just with the minor reforms Trump has made to our enforcement policies on illegal immigration we've seen wages increasing. A more complete approach to ending our illegal immigration problem would have significant wage gains associated with it.

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Points:

1) We are materialistic. I'm guilty, to a point. I want good cars and a nice house.

2) The two income family is a nessesity for most families

3) The cost of college is out of control. Couple that with the fact that people now have to fund their own retirement means we spend too much time on the hamster wheel. Family time becomes trying to cram everything into a half a day. Siting in front of the TV while dad reads the paper waiting for dinner is a thing of the past. No one just sits around.

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If you truly believe this, you should be in favor of Trump's wall and ending illegal immigration. Just with the minor reforms Trump has made to our enforcement policies on illegal immigration we've seen wages increasing. A more complete approach to ending our illegal immigration problem would have significant wage gains associated with it.

I am for stopping illlegal immigration. But...

 

1. The wall is a stupid way to do it. Attack the employers.

 

And

 

2. Republicans seem to have made illegal immigration into this bugaboo beyond its impact. Sure. It should be curtailed. But damn, you guys act like were being pillaged by Huns and Visigoths.

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Let me quote you:

 

 

So, are you saying the government's function is to feed kids? If so, are we talking about all kids or just some? If just some, who decides which ones?

Oh I hear you. Technically no, it isnt their function. Nor is educating them.

 

But at some point it was decided that it had to be done.

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How about this.. how about not romanticize families like it is the ultimate goal in life? So many people just "settle down" and have kids because they think it is what they are suppose to do.

Excellent point. The American dream is a farce.

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Well, the topic is how to incentivize a nuclear family. Seems you aren't into that topic. :dunno:

No, like Titans, I don’t think that is the role of government.

 

I also think it will be incredibly difficult to reverse the trajectory of the traditional family. I like your suggestion to emphasize the commitment of marriage over the romantic aspect though.

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A lot is blamed on moving away from a traditional, two parent family. My parents were divorced when I was three, so I understand some of the issues. I was a classic latchkey child with little to no parental supervision, yet I luckily avoided a lot of the pitfalls of growing up in such an environment. Not really sure how.

 

How was your upbringing, and what do you think we can do to promote a return to the nuclear family?

Personal responsibility, pride and the willingness to sacrifice to for your childrens future.

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Well I'm pretty sure we're witnessing a massive drawdown of Facebook. It's not that unusual. Any body remember my space? I didn't think so. Right now, the overwhelmingly fastest growing and perhaps only growing segment of Facebook is women over 50. That alone is enough to guarantee that young people will run away from it in droves. More and more on instagram and shiit.

Instagram, Snapchat, Twitter, etc. It’s all the same chit with the same problems. Get back to me when social media is gasping for air.

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If you truly believe this, you should be in favor of Trump's wall and ending illegal immigration. Just with the minor reforms Trump has made to our enforcement policies on illegal immigration we've seen wages increasing. A more complete approach to ending our illegal immigration problem would have significant wage gains associated with it.

Assuming we could end illegal immigration entirely, how much do you think that would impact wages? Were talking about 20 million people max (some say as little as 7 million), working low wage jobs primarily. In a country of 300+ million, I dont think the effect would be great enough to allow women to become homemakers again (if they want that role in the first place).

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Points:

1) We are materialistic. I'm guilty, to a point. I want good cars and a nice house.

2) The two income family is a nessesity for most families

3) The cost of college is out of control. Couple that with the fact that people now have to fund their own retirement means we spend too much time on the hamster wheel. Family time becomes trying to cram everything into a half a day. Siting in front of the TV while dad reads the paper waiting for dinner is a thing of the past. No one just sits around.

All excellent points, and difficult to change.

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Assuming we could end illegal immigration entirely, how much do you think that would impact wages? Were talking about 20 million people max (some say as little as 7 million), working low wage jobs primarily. In a country of 300+ million, I dont think the effect would be great enough to allow women to be homemakers again (if they want that role in the first place).

You leaving out the other part of it. Even if it did cause a nominal increase in overall wages, the resultant increase in overall cost specifically food would more than negate that.

 

So, in an economy already racked by a dwindling purchasing power, the theoretical basket of goods would become even more expensive.

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You leaving out the other part of it. Even if it did cause a nominal increase in overall wages, the resultant increase in overall cost specifically food would more than negate that.

So, in an economy already racked by a dwindling purchasing power, the theoretical basket of goods would become even more expensive.

So should we let more illegals in?

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I'm just adding to your point, man

I know, there are just too many variables to draw a simple conclusion.

 

Overall I dont consider immigration to be a huge problem, but since the beginning of time people have blamed foreigners for everything. I hear it all the time in HI, where tourists are simultaneously scapegoated while supporting a big segment of our economy.

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I am for stopping illlegal immigration. But...

 

1. The wall is a stupid way to do it. Attack the employers.

 

And

 

2. Republicans seem to have made illegal immigration into this bugaboo beyond its impact. Sure. It should be curtailed. But damn, you guys act like were being pillaged by Huns and Visigoths.

 

No Buts.

 

1) I've been a strong advocate of going after employers for years. Just this week ICE did raids in Los Angeles that resulted in detaining ~200 illegals with criminal convictions. However, that doesn't stop the constant inflow of illegals that people like me, from LA, have had to deal with for decades.

 

2) The impact of illegals is hugely significant. The fact that you minimize it shows your ignorance.

 

You're not form a southern border state. Don't act like you know what the impact of illegal immigration is in Nashville. It's easy to say we don't need a border wall in Tennessee.

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I know, there are just too many variables to draw a simple conclusion.

 

Overall I dont consider immigration to be a huge problem, but since the beginning of time people have blamed foreigners for everything. I hear it all the time in HI, where tourists are simultaneously scapegoated while supporting a big segment of our economy.

 

Do you make a distinction between immigration, legal immigration, and illegal immigration?

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But damn, you guys act like were being pillaged by Huns and Visigoths.

Strange how things change. In Europe, it's the Huns who are at the forefront of trying to save Europe from the foreign invasion. The rest of Europe is "We're sorry our ancestors kicked your evil bloodthirsty ancestors' asses as they invaded and tried to enslave and commit genocide against us. Here, have our women and this nice civil country we created without your help as a form of compensation".

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No Buts.

 

1) I've been a strong advocate of going after employers for years. Just this week ICE did raids in Los Angeles that resulted in detaining ~200 illegals with criminal convictions. However, that doesn't stop the constant inflow of illegals that people like me, from LA, have had to deal with for decades.

 

2) The impact of illegals is hugely significant. The fact that you minimize it shows your ignorance.

 

You're not form a southern border state. Don't act like you know what the impact of illegal immigration is in Nashville. It's easy to say we don't need a border wall in Tennessee.

Ok. Fair enough as to my geographical bias. Hell, even Tennessee is flooded with messicans.

 

I just dont think that an expensive wall is the best way to attack it. A wall without manpower is useless. And the manpower, aided by radar, motion sensors, choppers, etc. would be just as effective I think.

 

And Im not denying that illegal immigration has a large impact. Im just saying some folks seem to blame it for every single problem.

 

But Im not hugely opposed to the wall. If it ever gets built, well see how it works.

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Strange how things change. In Europe, it's the Huns who are at the forefront of trying to save Europe from the foreign invasion. The rest of Europe is "We're sorry our ancestors kicked your evil bloodthirsty ancestors' asses as they invaded and tried to enslave and commit genocide against us. Here, have our women and this nice civil country we created without your help as a form of compensation".

It's amazing that people in the US (liberals) think that if we bring in refugees from the same pool of countries that Europe has been pulling from that they will behave different here. Whats wrong with these people?

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Ok. Fair enough as to my geographical bias. Hell, even Tennessee is flooded with messicans.

 

I just dont think that an expensive wall is the best way to attack it. A wall without manpower is useless. And the manpower, aided by radar, motion sensors, choppers, etc. would be just as effective I think.

 

And Im not denying that illegal immigration has a large impact. Im just saying some folks seem to blame it for every single problem.

 

But Im not hugely opposed to the wall. If it ever gets built, well see how it works.

 

Relatively speaking, it's not that expensive. And your description of it's use shows a very poor EVEN ATTEMPT at understanding it's purpose. I find that very sad. Especially for a guy who doesn't even pay taxes in this country.

 

BTW, if Tennessee is packed with Mexicans imagine what it's like in San Diego or Los Angeles. Oh, and please show some respect. I don't like illegals but you won't find one post on this bored where I refer to them as "Messicans". That is actually pretty disgusting of you. You should be ashamed. Don't participate in this discussion if you're going to be a focking racist while you do.

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It's amazing that people in the US (liberals) think that if we bring in refugees from the same pool of countries that Europe has been pulling from that they will behave different here. Whats wrong with these people?

Well, as I've explained repeatedly, if same pool of people, isn't. See here in the United States, refugees are vetted by seven different agencies. And that doesn't even count the unhcr which first determines if somebody is eligible to even apply for Refugee status. Then, those people who do get through the process aren't guaranteed a spot in the United States, they're just given an opportunity to apply in a country not of their own choosing.

 

See, the difference is, at least one of them, is that we are effectively in Island for these purposes. We get to pick and choose who shows up on our border. As opposed to Europe where these people are literally washing up on the beaches.

 

If you're going to go that direction, you should try to compare ME and African refugees washing up on the shores of Europe versus Central American refugees showing up here in the United States.

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I don't think you're right about that anymore. Hell, even a college degree is no guarantee these days.

 

I think we're actually seeing economics make the next major change and the family unit. We're heading back more towards Asian ways. People can't afford to live on their own. Even divorced couples are staying under the same roof. Housing is way too expensive.

 

I didnt say you would be living life, but you finish High School, get and keep a job and get married before having kids you can live comfortable in a non-major city, even if that job is at Wal-Mart and you do your job well you can move up

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Well, as I've explained repeatedly, if same pool of people, isn't. See here in the United States, refugees are vetted by seven different agencies. And that doesn't even count the unhcr which first determines if somebody is eligible to even apply for Refugee status. Then, those people who do get through the process aren't guaranteed a spot in the United States, they're just given an opportunity to apply in a country not of their own choosing.

 

See, the difference is, at least one of them, is that we are effectively in Island for these purposes. We get to pick and choose who shows up on our border. As opposed to Europe where these people are literally washing up on the beaches.

 

If you're going to go that direction, you should try to compare ME and African refugees washing up on the shores of Europe versus Central American refugees showing up here in the United States.

If you're going to have a refugee problem, better Central Americans than Middle Easterners or Africans. Still I like China's refugee policy the best.

 

"No. Piss off. Go someplace else. We've set our upper limit at zero."

 

The Chinese bully Tibetans, Uighurs, Hong Kong, they don't give two sh*ts, and don't suffer whiney, liberal, hand-wringing belly button gazers crying about how bad they are even though they're 1000x worse.

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Cost for the wall

 

Make Every 1.8 million DACA members legal, and charge them a 14,000$ processing fee paid for over 14 years (automatic deductions, no interest)

 

there is your wall funding Win/Win

 

hell open up immigration and charge 14,000$ to become a citizen and its paid for in a week

 

people pay more than that to get coyotes to bring them across half the time holding them hostages or never delivering anyways

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Cost for the wall

 

Make Every 1.8 million DACA members legal, and charge them a 14,000$ processing fee paid for over 14 years (automatic deductions, no interest)

 

there is your wall funding Win/Win

 

hell open up immigration and charge 14,000$ to become a citizen and its paid for in a week

 

people pay more than that to get coyotes to bring them across half the time holding them hostages or never delivering anyways

 

Fock that. You want DACA you go to the southern border and fight alongside our border patrol agents while building the wall. It's easy to sit in a glass house and say how you deserve special treatment because your illegal parents brought you illegally to our great country. Well, get off your ass and prove you want to be here.

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Nuclear families aren't PC and therefore aren't celebrated. When you look at successful minority communities, they are almost exclusively nuclear. I wouldn't necessarily consider divorce as non-nuclear in our modern society as both parents can still be as involved or more involved.

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WTF does immigration have to do with family values? This is what happens when people can't add to a conversation - they steer it to some other topic.

 

The family values issue has many factors and things have eroded over time. Among the factors:

- single parent homes are more frequent

- kids are told from day 1 how special they are

- parents don't allow others to discipline their child when they do wrong

- religion is a part of fewer households

- respect for authority is gone

 

There are no quick fixes either. It started with individuals and the fix starts there too

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The thing is, most of you sre commenting based upon the extreme bullshit from the fringes that we see on television and elsewhere. That's what's driving the national conversation right now. The extreme fringes on either side.

 

Truth is, the majority of people and parents and kids are raising their kids just fine. They manage their family unit just fine. And, their kids hang out with kids who are part of the same kind of household structure and morals and values.

 

But that kind of stuff doesn't get you page clicks.

 

If you look into it, enrollment and I'm tenants and smaller, so-called Christian colleges is actually up. It's not that everybody Found Jesus, it's just that they find the state universities to be repositories of The Fringe element. The truth is, what goes on in 7th grade in Des Moines Iowa isn't going to be shown in a YouTube video anytime soon.

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