Confederate Civil War Monuments

[NorthernVike 2,080]

Should have been a pole.

[surferskin 30]

He could have sat it out. Or better yet, abided by the constitution that he swore to uphold. And the country he swore to protect, from all enemies, foreign and domestic.

Yeah he should have moved to Switzerland. Surprised he didn't think of that.

[Bier Meister 1,513]

i am in favor of creating memorials and moving statues to these buildings/areas. Slavery was not the primary impetus for the war, and existed legally. if verifiable evidence for confederate icons that opposed slavery and racism exists, perhaps they remain stating in their current location. the civil war is part of our history and should be remembered, but certain aspects should not be celebrated.

 

while the death camps of nazi germany (austria, polland, czech rep, etc) still stand, there is no dominance of statues of hitler, himmler, goebbels, gorring, etc. like the swastika, the confederate flag did not have a negative connotation until it came to represent certain negative ideals. unlike the swasticka, the confederate flag also represents an older style of southern life. unfortunately, i do not believe it can be separated. The racial over and undertones cannot be ignored and should be included in the hatespeak categories that exist.

 

i think there is a major correlation with this and trump as potus. tolerance equates to promotion. freedom of speech vs speech that incites. as a nation, we should be striving for equality and not suppression/oppression.

[drobeski 3,061]

Remember when the Taliban was destroying monuments, statues etc. Yeah these losers are no different.

[Mungwater 588]

Lee wasn't a traitor. He didn't own slaves. He was loyal to the state of VA. He would have fought for the onion had VA choose to stay. It was a different time.

He did own slaves, and it's been noted that he was much more demanding on them than his dad.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,636]

So Washington was a traitor too then?

I'm surprised a history buff like you doesn't know the rule about who's a traitor and who isn't.

 

Winners=Patriots

Losers= Eagles. I mean traitors.

[iam90sbaby 2,125]

I'm surprised a history buff like you doesn't know the rule about who's a traitor and who isn't.

 

Winners=Patriots

Losers= Eagles. I mean traitors.

 

Welcome back.

[wiffleball 4,640]

He did own slaves, and it's been noted that he was much more demanding on them than his dad.

See? That is perhaps the biggest failure of slave owners back in the day. They should have leased them. That way, they can mark up the entire lease at once and take the full expense in a single year. Otherwise you have to worry about depreciating them every single year , trying to obtain accelerated depreciation on the older ones it's just a big hassle and nowhere near the tax benefits of leasing a Slave.

 

Really, these are pretty smart guys. They should have set up their own slave ownership/leasing business. That way they could enjoy a sale for resale exemption and then lease slaves from their own procurement company. It's genius. Not only are there fantastic tax benefits, but you can realize Revenue much more quickly without having to have an asset heavy balance sheet to drag around with you.

 

This is the real reason to oppose slave ownership.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,636]

Yeah he should have moved to Switzerland. Surprised he didn't think of that.

Or lived up to the oath he swore to. Either way.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,636]

 

Welcome back.

TY

[surferskin 30]

He did own slaves, and it's been noted that he was much more demanding on them than his dad.

He inherited slaves from his father inlaw and freed them all before the emancipation proclamation.

[NorthernVike 2,080]

 

Welcome back.

Seriously? Like we need yet another hack posting around here?

[surferskin 30]

Or lived up to the oath he swore to. Either way.

Killed his family and friends? Now that would make someone a traitor.

[Voltaire 4,558]

If tearing down statues of racists is ok, can you tell me where I can find some of Obama?

If you live in the south, locate the Confederate statue nearest your home and wait 5-30 years.

[Mungwater 588]

He inherited slaves from his father inlaw and freed them all before the emancipation proclamation.

Which was in the will, let's not canonize him for it

[Baker Boy 1,485]

This is just the first step. As it becomes acceptable to remove our past Civil War History, over the next few decades the Establishment will push to remove more and more American History.

 

America is shedding its past so when the future proves to be a cruel place, no evidence of a better past will exist.

[Big Guy 1,400]

If you live in the south, locate the Confederate statue nearest your home and wait 5-30 years.

 

will do

 

 

but do mean there aren't any yet other than the ###### / dildon't ones?

[Voltaire 4,558]

 

will do

 

 

but do mean there aren't any yet other than the ###### / dildon't ones?

In Washington DC is a place called National Statuary Hall. Each state gets two statues for it. Now it hasn't happened yet but I'm thinking Hawaii might eventually replace one of their designated statues.

[Voltaire 4,558]

 

will do

 

 

but do mean there aren't any yet other than the ###### / dildon't ones?

I just googled it for you. There's already ones in Kenya and Indonesia.

 

Rapid City, South Dakota will have one come September. They are the local city nearby to Mt. Rushmore and as part of their tourist attraction have exhibits of all the presidents.

[iam90sbaby 2,125]

I just googled it for you. There's already ones in Kenya and Indonesia.

 

Rapid City, South Dakota will have one come September. They are the local city nearby to Mt. Rushmore and as part of their tourist attraction have exhibits of all the presidents.

 

They took Old Joe down yesterday. And took down Johnny Rob earlier this year.

 

http://www.gainesville.com/news/20170814/confederate-statue-removed-from-downtown-gainesville

 

Here is what remains:

 

• Bradenton: Confederate monument, unveiled June 3, 1927.^[21]
• Brooksville: Confederate monument, unveiled June 3, 1916.^[21]
• Crestview: Florida's Last Confederate Veteran Memorial, City Park, unveiled January 18, 1958. Sold by the city to an individual at a town hall meeting and moved north to Garden City.^[21]
• Daytona Beach: Confederate Sun Dial Monument, unveiled April 26, 1961.^[21]
• Daytona Beach: Confederate Boulder Monument, unveiled April 22, 1979.^[22]
• Defuniak Springs: Florida's First Confederate Monument, unveiled 1871, historic marker nearby.^[21]
• Ellenton: Confederate Veterans Memorial Monument, erected October 10, 1937.^[23][21]
• Ellenton: Judah P. Benjamin Confederate Memorial at Gamble Plantation Historic State Park, established 1925, pursuant to agreement between United Daughters of the Confederacy and State of Florida.^[24] Also serves as home to Florida Division United Daughters of the Confederacy.^[25]
• Fort Myers: Lee Bust Memorial. The bust was commissioned from Italian sculptor Aldo Pero for $6,000 by the Laetitia Ashmore Nutt Chapter of the United Daughters of the Confederacy, chapter 1447 and dedicated on January 19, 1966.^[26]
• Gainesville: Confederate monument, Courthouse lawn, unveiled January 19, 1904.^[27] Removed from government land to a private cemetery in 2017.^[28]
• Jacksonville: Confederate monument, downtown Hemming Park, unveiled June 16, 1898.^[27]
• Jacksonville: Confederate Park, opened in 1907.
• Jacksonville: Florida's Tribute to the Women of the Confederacy, in Confederate Park, dedicated October 26, 1915. The sculptor was Allen George Newman.^[29]
• Jacksonville: General Joseph Finnegan Grave Monument, Old City Cemetery.^[30]
• Jacksonville: Yellow Fort Bluff Monument, Yellow Bluff Fort Historic State Park, unveiled March 5, 1951.
• Key West: Confederate memorial fence at Clinton Square, built by J.V. Harris circa 1866.^[31]
• Key West: Confederate memorial pavilion at Bayview Park, built in 1924 by the United Daughters of the Confederacy.^[32]
• Lakeland: Confederate soldier statue in Munn Park in downtown, created by the McNeel Marble Works, dedicated June 3, 1910.^[27]
• Madison: Confederate monument, City Park, dedicated June 3, 1909.^[30]
• Marianna: Battle of Marianna Monument, Jackson County Courthouse lawn, unveiled November 2, 1924.^[33]
• Marianna: Confederate monument, Jackson County Courthouse lawn, unveiled November 30, 1881.^[33]
• Miami: Confederate monument, Old City Cemetery, unveiled June 3, 1914.^[33]
• Monticello: Confederate monument, unveiled June 3, 1899.^[33]
• Ocala: Confederate monument, front of courthouse, unveiled April 25, 1908.^[34]
• Olustee: Battlefield monument, Olustee Battlefield Historic State Park, dedicated October 23, 1912.
• Olustee: General Joseph Finnegan Monument, Olustee Battlefield Historic State Park, unveiled 1912.
• Orlando: Confederate "Johnny Reb" monument, Lake Eola Park. Erected at first at Magnolia Avenue in 1911 then moved to Lake Eola Park in 1917. Removed from the park to a private location in 2017.^[35][36]
• Palatka: Confederate monument, unveiled April 26, 1925.^[37]
• Pensacola: Grave of Stephen Mallory, St. Michael's Cemetery.
• Pensacola: Our Confederate Dead, dedicated June 17, 1891.^[38]
• Seffner: Confederate Memorial Park, dedicated April, 2009.^[39]
• Tallahassee: Confederate monument of Leon County, on the grounds of the former Florida State Capitol, the "Old Capitol" now a museum, .^[40] Dedicated in 1882, it was moved to its current location in 1923.^[41]
• Tampa: Confederate monument, Hillsborough County Courthouse annex, dedicated February 8, 1911.^[42]
• Woodville: Battle of Natural Bridge Monument, unveiled April 26, 1922.^[34]

 

 

Going to be interesting when they have to go to Bradenton or Ocala. Those people are going to freak and will put up a fight.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

I'm surprised a history buff like you doesn't know the rule about who's a traitor and who isn't.

 

Winners=Patriots

Losers= Eagles. I mean traitors.

That was kinda my point.

 

Basically, both guys had more than one loyalty. When push came to shove, they chose their home.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,636]

Seriously? Like we need yet another hack posting around here?

We need more exciting insurance salesman who ice-fish. And have old pieces of Big Macs in their colon.

[NewbieJr 540]

This is just the first step. As it becomes acceptable to remove our past Civil War History, over the next few decades the Establishment will push to remove more and more American History.

 

America is shedding its past so when the future proves to be a cruel place, no evidence of a better past will exist.

history is fine. Have a Civil War Museum. You can put all the Robert E Lee statues in there you want. You can have black people in Chains when they first walk in. But why should a black person have to walk into a building that has Robert Lee or the Confederate flag hanging outside of it? People who were fighting to keep them oppressed? Do you think Jews have to walk into public places called the Hitler building in Germany?

[Fireballer 2,381]

I made a point to eat lunch today in the shadow of probably he biggest RE Lee statue anywhere. Damn thats an imposing focking statue! I guess Ive never really paid attention since I see it so much. JEB and Stonewall are impressive in their own right, but Lee is enormous.The guy with the Va Flaggers that applied for a permit for a rally in Sept has withdrawn his request. I can kinda understand why the Generals are still around since they are sons of VA, but the Davis statue is a little much.

 

Still cant believe Jeff Davis Hwy exists on the southside of Richmond. Its so crazy to hear the name roll off the tounges of AAs. Really insult to injury, making them utter his name to this day. I guess theyre so used to it and just dont think about it. Lots just shorten it to "JD" or "The Pike".

[frank 2,144]

He would have fought for the onion

Was he a big defender of free press?

[surferskin 30]

Was he a big defender of free press?

[Saint Elistan 106]

I tire of the "history of our country" argument. These aren't symbols and history of the United States of America. They're symbols and history of the Confederate States of America. And of all the various reasons we try to place upon the secession, let us not forget that it was laid out quite clearly by Confederate Vice President Alexander Stephens in the Cornerstone Speech weeks before the first shots were fired...

 

Our new government is founded upon exactly this idea; its foundations are laid, its corner-stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth.

[surferskin 30]

Why is it so hard to understand that confederate soldiers were just Americans that were born in the south? They didn't choose to go to war and barely any of them owned slaves. Calling them traitors and tearing down their memorials is equivalent to calling Vietnam vets baby killers. These men fought and died protecting their homes. Have some reverence for focks sake.

[Sho Nuff 719]

Why is it so hard to understand that confederate soldiers were just Americans that were born in the south? They didn't choose to go to war and barely any of them owned slaves. Calling them traitors and tearing down their memorials is equivalent to calling Vietnam vets baby killers. These men fought and died protecting their homes. Have some reverence for focks sake.

 

Like it or not...they fought for an enemy of the United States of America.

Statues can be a part of history...but flying the flag of a vanquished enemy of the USA is pretty stupid.

I won't say much of the men who fought...but I won't celebrate them...and I sure as hell won't defend the use of statues that were put up during the civil rights movement as anything more than what they were...an FU to the movement. They should be removed from public spaces.

[Gepetto 985]

 

Like it or not...they fought for an enemy of the United States of America.

Statues can be a part of history...but flying the flag of a vanquished enemy of the USA is pretty stupid.

I won't say much of the men who fought...but I won't celebrate them...and I sure as hell won't defend the use of statues that were put up during the civil rights movement as anything more than what they were...an FU to the movement. They should be removed from public spaces.

 

Britain was our enemy that we defeated. Do you want us to consider all British monuments and people evil enemies today too?

[Sho Nuff 719]

 

Britain was our enemy that we defeated. Do you want us to consider all British monuments and people evil enemies today too?

 

Did I call the people evil enemies? Or did you even read what you just quoted where I said I wouldn't say much about the men who fought?

And do we keep a lot of British symbols? Also...they were who we broke off from...not quite enemies of the USA once we declared and won our independence. They have been long time allies...and I don't see many people flying their flags...nor has their flag been used as a symbol of racism and oppression as the confederate flag has.

 

Have any other false equivalencies you want to try?

[BunnysBastatrds 1,914]

Why is it so hard to understand that confederate soldiers were just Americans that were born in the south? They didn't choose to go to war and barely any of them owned slaves. Calling them traitors and tearing down their memorials is equivalent to calling Vietnam vets baby killers. These men fought and died protecting their homes. Have some reverence for focks sake.

This.

[KSB2424 3,083]

Sho Nuff is a machine. I wake up he's posting. I take a mid morning poo, he's posting. I get back from the gym, it's 9:00 and he's STILL posting the same stuff. Talking in circles.

 

It really is impressive.

[NewbieJr 540]

Sho Nuff is a machine. I wake up he's posting. I take a mid morning poo, he's posting. I get back from the gym, it's 9:00 and he's STILL posting the same stuff. Talking in circles.

 

It really is impressive.

Wait. You go to a gym?

[surferskin 30]

Sho Nuff is a machine. I wake up he's posting. I take a mid morning poo, he's posting. I get back from the gym, it's 9:00 and he's STILL posting the same stuff. Talking in circles.

 

It really is impressive.

 

He kills threads like the terminator.

[Sho Nuff 719]

Let's worry about quantity rather than content.

[posty 2,296]

KSB won this thread...

[Gepetto 985]

Well personally I don't really know much about the Confederate Flag or what people in the South and elsewhere believe it represents. So I'll try not to post again in this thread.

[KSB2424 3,083]

Wait. You go to a gym?

Just started like two months ago.

[surferskin 30]

Just started like two months ago.

 

Progress pics?