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Le’Veon Bell - The hold out continues!

Why is everyone so convinced Start week 1?

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#601 jgcrawfish

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Posted 23 October 2018 - 10:25 AM

you can doubt all you want...they steelers can use the transition tag on him next year if they choose to do so.  That would mean they would tender an offer at 120% of what he makes this year...not what his contract says, what he actually earns.  i'm not saying they will, i'm saying the could.  every week he stays away he surrenders more and more money, and leverage.  

 

here...i'm not the only one who's saying it, I was just the first...

 

http://www.espn.com/...lip?id=24847676



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#602 ralphster

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Posted 23 October 2018 - 12:58 PM

Not if your lazy, greedy ass decides to sit at home instead of doing what you said you would do.  
 
:thumbsdown:


Bell told the steelers he wouldn't report if they tagged him again, so he's doing exactly what he said he would do.

And all because they wouldn't put any solid guarantees past the first year of his proposed deal. Those lazy, greedy Steelers..
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#603 Jedi Sensei

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Posted 23 October 2018 - 04:37 PM

So if Bell doesnt report at all, you are arguing that the Steelers can franchise him again and pay him 144% of zero, which means Bell has to play for free? 

 

Bell would need to sign the current (2nd) franchise contract for the Steelers to be able to tag him a 3rd time at the 144% rate; if he doesn't show up this year, the only tag the Steelers could apply would essentially be the one he's currently not signing.

 

Bell will report by week 10, sign his tag, and collect (at most) 8 game checks at $855k each, which would be the basis for the 144% rate on his 3rd tag. (Roughly $9.8M max value)



#604 cbfalcon

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Posted 23 October 2018 - 05:56 PM

 
Bell would need to sign the current (2nd) franchise contract for the Steelers to be able to tag him a 3rd time at the 144% rate; if he doesn't show up this year, the only tag the Steelers could apply would essentially be the one he's currently not signing.
 
Bell will report by week 10, sign his tag, and collect (at most) 8 game checks at $855k each, which would be the basis for the 144% rate on his 3rd tag. (Roughly $9.8M max value)

So if Bell sits out the season, he makes $14m next year. But if he reports by week 10, he only makes $9.8m next year.

And if this is the reality, you actually think he is reporting by week 10?
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#605 Kent

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Posted 23 October 2018 - 06:01 PM

For Bell owners...especially those who used a top 3-4 pick on him...this situation is almost worse than a season ending injury in week 1.

Do you keep him? Do you trade him? If you trade him, how much should you ask for, and how much can you expect in return?

When Ingram's original owner offered me Ingram for Bell in week 3 of Ingram's suspension, I jumped on it.


You keep him until the bitter end.

#606 Jedi Sensei

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Posted 23 October 2018 - 09:24 PM



So if Bell sits out the season, he makes $14m next year. But if he reports by week 10, he only makes $9.8m next year.

 

No. I don't want to rehash the whole thread but if Bell reports by week 10 he accrues the full year and becomes a free agent at the end of the season.  This would force the Steelers to (a) offer him a long-term contract that he finds acceptable [and if they intended to do that, they would have already], or (b ) tag him a 3rd time and we go through this whole rigmarole again [and, it should be obvious that the Steelers would not cotton to that either, nor would Bell sign a contract worth less than the one he's holding out from].

 

So Bell will report by week 10, the Steelers will use the roster exemption on him to withhold 2 more game checks, and decline to offer him a contract in the offseason, whereupon he tries to get a better deal than >$25M guaranteed on the free market.

 

The scenario may play out differently, of course, but it's the closest thing to a "win-win" for both parties at this point.



#607 jgcrawfish

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 04:25 PM

Bell told the steelers he wouldn't report if they tagged him again, so he's doing exactly what he said he would do.

And all because they wouldn't put any solid guarantees past the first year of his proposed deal. Those lazy, greedy Steelers..

 

No, Bell told the Steelers he would report, told his teammates he would be there with them, and told Steelers fans that this would be his best season ever.  

 

So if Bell sits out the season, he makes $14m next year. But if he reports by week 10, he only makes $9.8m next year.

And if this is the reality, you actually think he is reporting by week 10?

 

Not exactly.  To report he has to sign the franchise contract for this year.  He would make # of games X $855,000 for this year and would be a FA next year.  But his value next year depends on what happens after this season.  

 

 

No. I don't want to rehash the whole thread but if Bell reports by week 10 he accrues the full year and becomes a free agent at the end of the season.  This would force the Steelers to (a) offer him a long-term contract that he finds acceptable [and if they intended to do that, they would have already], or (b ) tag him a 3rd time and we go through this whole rigmarole again [and, it should be obvious that the Steelers would not cotton to that either, nor would Bell sign a contract worth less than the one he's holding out from].

 

So Bell will report by week 10, the Steelers will use the roster exemption on him to withhold 2 more game checks, and decline to offer him a contract in the offseason, whereupon he tries to get a better deal than >$25M guaranteed on the free market.

 

The scenario may play out differently, of course, but it's the closest thing to a "win-win" for both parties at this point.

 

This is mostly correct, there are actually 5 options for next year:

 

  1. The Steelers refuse to offer Bell a long term contract or he refuses whatever they offer and he walks.  They would likely get some sort of FA compensation for his departure of likely a 3rd rounder.
  2. The Steelers offer him a long-term contract and he signs it and plays for the Steelers
  3. The Steelers offer him a long-term contract which he signs and they trade him away
  4. The Steelers put the "Franchise" designation on him.  The figures on that will depend on what happens in the next 3 weeks.  If Bell reports before Week 11 he would qualify for a "full year" which would mean this is his 2nd franchise tag year.  Increase for the franchise tag from 2nd year (this one) to 3rd year (next year) would be 144% of his contract value this year.  That's roughly 144% of 14.4 million.  If Bell does not report this year, he loses the full year accrual and his Franchise next year would be exactly what it is this year 120% of last years contract.  
  5. The Steelers put the "Transistion" designation on him.  This is the ATOM bomb approach for Pittsburgh.  This would mean he would get 120% of what he got paid THIS year.  Say Bell signs after week 10 to qualify for the "full year".  He theoretically would get 6 x $855,000, or around 5.1 million.  The Steelers could Transition tag him for 120% of that...or about $6.1 million next year.  Bell could argue that he deserves 144% of that figure or 7.4 million in arbitration and would probably win because he's already been tagged (of some sort) previously.  But the Steelers could also roster exempt him for 2 games when he signs and not pay him for those, reducing next years contract to 4.1 million (at 120%) or 4.9 million (at 144%).  They would hold his rights for one more year but could not trade him until he signs it.  But make no mistake, he has to show at some point to accrue the year and to end the franchise/transition tag card they have over him by next year.  This scenario has played out before, the Chargers did it to Vincent Jackson a few years back, held ALL the cards and traded him for good value.  I personally would love to see this happen.  

My best guess is this:  He says away for one more week, until the trade deadline passes, then reports late next week.  As long as he shows up after the trade deadline but before the game, he qualifies for the week of pay but would not practice/dress/play in Week 9.  The Steelers would use a roster exemption on him for at least that week and negotiate a payment for it, and maybe the following week, which would be week 10.  That would make the first week he could/would play Week 11.  I anticipate him splitting with Connor and pulling a hamstring early in the game, being placed on IR for the rest of the season and collecting 6 weeks of game checks at $855,000 without playing.  Steelers try to negotiate a long term contract with him next spring but can't and they let him walk unless they find a trade partner willing to pony up at least a 2nd rounder for him.  However, if Amari Cooper is worth a 1st, then Bell is probably worth 2 of them.  So, ultimately I think they just let him walk.  I don't think they will want the Groundhog day style headache again next year.  



"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

#608 seafoam1

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 06:13 PM

So if Bell doesnt report at all, you are arguing that the Steelers can franchise him again and pay him 144% of zero, which means Bell has to play for free? Or are you believing its 144% of the minimum, which I think would be about $900k?

It doesnt seem logical, therefore I doubt you are correct.


All I know is that they can keep him again if he doesn't play his 6 games.

#609 Smileseers

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 08:32 PM

All I know is that they can keep him again if he doesn't play his 6 games.

They can keep him again regardless if he plays his 6 games.


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#610 LaChup

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 08:37 PM

As long as he doesn't report, he's still more valuable than Eli.



#611 ffexpert

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Posted 26 October 2018 - 12:11 PM

just traded his ass along with jalen richard for devante adams and duke Johnson. My RB's are super weak, but don't see a probable scenario where he ends up being a true rb 1 this season.



#612 Kent

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Posted 27 October 2018 - 06:28 AM

just traded his ass along with jalen richard for devante adams and duke Johnson. My RB's are super weak, but don't see a probable scenario where he ends up being a true rb 1 this season.


You held all this time and now hes back soon and you make a Duke Johnson trade?

#613 LaChup

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Posted 27 October 2018 - 07:58 AM

Yes. Duke scores, on average, 5 points more a game than Bell right now. Plus his name is Duke.



#614 tanatastic

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Posted 28 October 2018 - 10:46 AM

just traded his ass along with jalen richard for devante adams and duke Johnson. My RB's are super weak, but don't see a probable scenario where he ends up being a true rb 1 this season.

Worth for Adams, hes a high end WR1. Surprised the other owner was willing to do that to his wr depth.

#615 ffexpert

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Posted 29 October 2018 - 11:53 AM

You held all this time and now hes back soon and you make a Duke Johnson trade?

 

I already dropped Duke....trade was for Devante Adams, which i would do 10 times out of 10.



#616 justforbeer

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Posted 30 October 2018 - 08:01 PM

You held all this time and now hes back soon and you make a Duke Johnson trade?


What makes you think he’s coming back soon?

Lol! Some people never learn!

To get Adams for a guy that’s not played a single down this season is a heck of a trade! I say nice job.
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#617 jgcrawfish

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Posted 30 October 2018 - 10:08 PM

 

I already dropped Duke....trade was for Devante Adams, which i would do 10 times out of 10.

I don't think you are wrong for doing this.  I've said for a while I don't think he plays.  He'll sustain a mysterious injury on his 1st play and cash the checks for the rest of the season.  I'd actually love to see them roster exempt him and not pay him a dime for 2 weeks, then make him inactive for the rest and transition tag him next year just to watch him squirm.  Lying sack of chit..."it's not about the money, it's about resetting the RB market".  If it's not about the money, play for your pay d-bag.   



"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

#618 sperri40

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Posted 01 November 2018 - 01:51 PM

Not sure if this has been posted yet...

 

https://www.cbssport...ight-prefer-it/



#619 jrokh

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Posted 01 November 2018 - 02:00 PM

It was mentioned in another thread. As a Conner owner I'm not buying it. I don't think Bell would put his future dollars in the hands of someone else.

#620 jgcrawfish

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Posted 01 November 2018 - 02:10 PM

Not sure if this has been posted yet...

 

https://www.cbssport...ight-prefer-it/

that's a good read, and an interesting theory.  I personally can't see it.  I can't imagine there is one team anywhere who isn't a little apprehensive of a guy who has stepped foot onto a football field in 16 months by the time next season starts, well, not one that would pay him 17 million a year he's asking for with that long a gap.  

 

I saw a stat that said James Conner has more 20+ yrd runs in the last three games than Le'Veon did all of last season.  He's on pace for a 2000+ yardage season.  They aren't losing anything with Bell gone.  Hell, even the Ravens DC came out and said they are better without Bell.  Nearly every ounce of leverage has disappeared for Bell.  



"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

#621 cbfalcon

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Posted 01 November 2018 - 03:50 PM

Not sure if this has been posted yet...

 

https://www.cbssport...ight-prefer-it/

 

I can't imagine Bell trusting the franchise enough to do that...and nor should he.


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#622 BobSanders_33

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Posted 01 November 2018 - 04:08 PM

 

I can't imagine Bell trusting the franchise enough to do that...and nor should he.

 

 

Management hates Bell at this point.  They don't want him back next year at a franchise tag price.  They will gladly take a 3rd and let him bounce.



#623 edjr

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 07:27 AM

:lol:


posty


#624 TBayXXXVII

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 09:43 AM

I personally think Bell really cost himself 10's of millions of dollars.  If I'm a GM and I see a guy who apparently is willing to sit out a whole year because being the highest paid RB in the league (and all-time), wasn't good enough for him, I'm very hesitant to sign him.  If you want to make the argument that Bell only declined the offer because there was a lack of guaranteed money, then my response would be, why would I want to give a 27 year old RB, who just sat a whole year, a lot of guaranteed money.

 

Another reason why I wouldn't necessarily give Bell much guaranteed money is James Conner.  He's already doing better than what Bell has recently been doing.  Not only that, there's DeAngelo Williams, Willie Parker, and Rashard Mendenhall.  Is it that the Steelers always know a good RB when they see one or is their system?  I'm more inclined to believe it's the system because the odds of consistently being able to plug and play any RB and him excel, is excessively small.  So, why would I give a 27 year old RB with over 1500 touches (when history shows 28 years old and 2000 touches is the kiss of death of RB's), a lot of guaranteed money over a long period of time?

 

Had Bell played this season, he'd have made $14M and hit the free agent market coming off of a season where he likely finished as a top 5 RB and garnered something like Todd Gurley and got about $40-$50M guaranteed (possibly $60M total).  That's anywhere from $54-64M that he could have gotten.  Now?  He's going to make a few million (if any), this year - call it $6M, and if I'm a GM, I'm offering him little to no guaranteed money at all.  Something like a 4-year $50M deal (back loaded), with no guaranteed money.  Meaning, if after 2 year years, where the front 2 has $20M, I can move on from him, I will.  So, instead of about $50M from the start of this season until 2023, he'll get about $25M.



#625 Phil Simms 11

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 09:50 AM

The franchise tag is trash, it should be done away with.

The Steelers are notoriously shady with contracts, players need to take notice and avoid them.

#626 cavern

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 10:10 AM

maybe Bell is just comfortable with the money has has made already, is sort of over risking his body for $$, but is not quite willing to say he's done because of all the potential money that is out there



#627 Ehlana

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 11:27 AM

 

In theory, he needs to report to the Steelers before Week 10 if he wants ensure he'll become a free agent: if Bell doesn't report by Tuesday at 4 p.m. ET following Week 10, the Steelers would be able to use the franchise tag on Bell again in 2019. 

 

I find that sentence from the article confusing. Does he have to report before week 10 or after?



#628 jgcrawfish

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 11:53 AM

 

I find that sentence from the article confusing. Does he have to report before week 10 or after?

it's a little deceiving.  my understanding is that he has to report by Nov 13th.  He has to be under contract for 6 games to quality for as having played the season.

 

but, honestly, it really doesn't matter.  accruing the year played only means that his franchise tag goes up.  This year it was 120%, next year would be 144%.  If he skips this entire season the Steelers can franchise tag him for exactly what they did this season.  it's a zero sum game.  

 

the really interesting take is the article above that sperri40 posted.  believe it or not, the "everybody wins" scenario is the Steelers and Bell's reps agree for him to sit out the entire season under the premise they don't tag him.  It would be against the CBA rules, but it would work.  Bell gets to benefit from a bidding war for his services for a full season as an actual FA, and the steelers get compensation for their FA departure.  They don't have to live with him upsetting the locker room this season or rocking the boat they have rolling along with James Conner.  



"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

#629 seafoam1

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 12:13 PM

The best RB in the league sits out and a backup comes in and is just fine. Last I checked the Steelers are doing well without Bell.

Just goes to show how the RB position is plug and play if you have a good QB and a decent o-line. Just look at NE. Running back is the most overrated position in the NFL. Except the NFL teams don't overrate them. Hence, Bell sitting out. 

 

Now in fantasy, draft them early and often, as they get hurt early and often a lot.



#630 pee-diddy

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 03:03 PM

My prediction is that he reports next week. Im a Conner owner and Im making this prediction based on my hunch that Bell is trying to screw over as many people as possible during this process. Maybe he is a disciple of The Spur Posse. Anyone? Anyone?

#631 jgcrawfish

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 03:33 PM

My prediction is that he reports next week. Im a Conner owner and Im making this prediction based on my hunch that Bell is trying to screw over as many people as possible during this process. Maybe he is a disciple of The Spur Posse. Anyone? Anyone?

I don't think so.  Nov 13th is THE date.  If he reports, it will be then.  If he doesn't, he won't at all this season.  



"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

#632 Ehlana

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 04:08 PM

but, honestly, it really doesn't matter.

 

As a Conner manager, from a fantasy perspective it does matter to me. Our trade deadline is November 10th, so if he had to report before Week 10 (ie before Nov 11) then I could make a more educated decision on what I would get from Conner the last six weeks, since as far as I can tell if he doesn't report by the deadline to accrue a season (Nov 13 as you pointed out) there is almost no logical reason for him to report after that.

 

Using the Nov 13 date clears things up though. Much better than vague references to before and after Week 10.



#633 Einstein's Dog

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 04:22 PM

 

As a Conner manager, from a fantasy perspective it does matter to me. Our trade deadline is November 10th, so if he had to report before Week 10 (ie before Nov 11) then I could make a more educated decision on what I would get from Conner the last six weeks, since as far as I can tell if he doesn't report by the deadline to accrue a season (Nov 13 as you pointed out) there is almost no logical reason for him to report after that.

 

Using the Nov 13 date clears things up though. Much better than vague references to before and after Week 10.

You're right, it matters. 

 

I'm also a Conner owner.  I'm trading for L Bell now because I want this Pitt RB game.  Unlike most on here, I think Bell is coming back.  And I think Bell is better than Conner and they will play Bell.  Pitt is in it to win it, and they aren't going to mess around.  It cost me more than I wanted but I'm more concerned than a lot of other Conner owners on here.



#634 LaChup

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 04:44 PM

I think Bell will play.....with all of our minds.



#635 jgcrawfish

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 04:57 PM

 

As a Conner manager, from a fantasy perspective it does matter to me. Our trade deadline is November 10th, so if he had to report before Week 10 (ie before Nov 11) then I could make a more educated decision on what I would get from Conner the last six weeks, since as far as I can tell if he doesn't report by the deadline to accrue a season (Nov 13 as you pointed out) there is almost no logical reason for him to report after that.

 

Using the Nov 13 date clears things up though. Much better than vague references to before and after Week 10.

yeah, i was looking it at it from a purely football perspective, as a fan.  From fantasy perspective, it definitely matters to me as well.  I own Conner in every league I play (a benefit of being a Steelers fan and following reporters of theirs, I got maybe a 1/2 hour notice over the big fantasy sites).  As a fantasy owner of Conner, I would love for Bell to continue the hold out.  My opinion as a Steeler fan has swung that way as well, but independent of being an owner.  I tried to move Conner earlier this season in a couple of leagues and couldn't get any takers, so I sort of had to keep him and it's paid of handsomely.  

 

It's too bad your trade deadline is before that Nov 13th date.  And I'm honestly not completely sure of that, I believe it was Schefter that said it.  The 10th week of the season officially ends on the Monday night game on Nov 12th, so maybe that's why the 13th is the day he said.  But my understanding is that he only has to sign the contract before the 11th week, which to me would mean the Saturday before their Sunday game on the 18th.  



"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

#636 Smileseers

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Posted 03 November 2018 - 08:15 PM

If Bell does not sign the franchise tag before 4:00pm eastern time November 13 then Bell cannot play this season for any team including the Steelers.  The franchise tag cannot be rescinded after Nov 13 either.


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#637 jgcrawfish

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Posted 04 November 2018 - 12:07 PM

Why is ESPN like weeks behind what I have said???

 

http://www.espn.com/...-rb-leveon-bell



"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

#638 eagles115

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Posted 04 November 2018 - 12:13 PM

Hand shake deal has been completed by Bell and the Steelers. He doesnt have to show up and also the steelers pull back the tag.



#639 AintNoStoppinMeNow

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Posted 04 November 2018 - 03:17 PM

Yet another outstanding day for Conner on the ground and through the air. Take the year off Le'Veon. 



#640 LOD01

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 01:47 PM

Hand shake deal has been completed by Bell and the Steelers. He doesnt have to show up and also the steelers pull back the tag.

If he doesn't show, then this is definitely in the cards. They don't want him around, don't have to pay him to do nothing this year and he gets out of the franchise tag.


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Sho Nuff, on 29 Jun 2018 - 08:53 AM, said:snapback.png

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