Jump to content



Photo

U.S. 'turning the tide' on the opioid crisis


  • Please log in to reply
95 replies to this topic

#1 Ray Lewis's Limo Driver

Ray Lewis's Limo Driver

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 52,923 posts

Posted 23 October 2018 - 02:01 PM

The U.S. is "beginning to turn the tide" on the opioid epidemic, HHS Secretary Alex Azar said Tuesday, pointing to new federal data showing a slight dip in overdose deaths last year.

Preliminary CDC data released last week shows drug overdose deaths, which spiked in 2017, dropped 2.8 percent toward the end of last year and the beginning of 2018. Azar credited federal, state and local efforts, one day before President Donald Trump will sign overwhelmingly bipartisan legislation to address the opioid crisis.

 

https://www.politico...ecretary-932332

 

 

 

I wil wait to see how this unfolds, but my gut tells me....bullsh!t....


To the last, I grapple with thee; From Hell's heart, I stab at thee; For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee.

 

 


#2 MDC

MDC

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 54,842 posts

Posted 23 October 2018 - 02:04 PM

Went from around 5,000 deads from fetenyl and other synthetic opioids to over 30,000 (!) in 2017. Probably just hit peak crisis last year. That figure is insane.
This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.

#3 Hardcore troubadour

Hardcore troubadour

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 35,461 posts

Posted 23 October 2018 - 02:07 PM

So if more people die from overdoses than gun deaths, why so much emphasis on the latter? And when you factor in how many people die from gun deaths from legal gun owners, its minuscule. I have an idea, lock up drug dealers and people with illegal guns and both numbers should plummet. Win-win. Except for the bad guys. Which is nice.

#4 penultimatestraw

penultimatestraw

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 15,847 posts

Posted 23 October 2018 - 02:08 PM

I'm also skeptical, though I've definitely noticed a difference in prescribing habits and registries are making it easier to call out addicts. Needle exchanges and more widespread availability of Narcan also help prevent deaths, though they don't decrease the use of opioids



#5 penultimatestraw

penultimatestraw

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 15,847 posts

Posted 23 October 2018 - 02:10 PM

So if more people die from overdoses than gun deaths, why so much emphasis on the latter? And when you factor in how many people die from gun deaths from legal gun owners, its minuscule. I have an idea, lock up drug dealers and people with illegal guns and both numbers should plummet. Win-win. Except for the bad guys. Which is nice.

I think both have been in the news a lot lately.

 

As usual, you're excluding the biggest chunk of gun deaths too. ;)



#6 Ray Lewis's Limo Driver

Ray Lewis's Limo Driver

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 52,923 posts

Posted 23 October 2018 - 02:15 PM

Seems as though a prime contributor to this mess was the drug companies lying to people about the addiction potential of pain medications, and the existence of unscrupulous doctors who abused the system.  Legalization of pot has also contributed as cartels look for other profitable commodities and their heroin in potent and cheaper than the oxy's and such. 

 

Part of me thinks, fine, let people kill themselves off.....I have little empathy for drug users, but then again, this situation seems like it was built to push this stuff on all of us.


To the last, I grapple with thee; From Hell's heart, I stab at thee; For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee.

 

 


#7 Hardcore troubadour

Hardcore troubadour

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 35,461 posts

Posted 23 October 2018 - 02:16 PM

I think both have been in the news a lot lately.
 
As usual, you're excluding the biggest chunk of gun deaths too. ;)


I just think people who commit suicide will find another way if a gun isn't available. They do it all the time. Sure, some would be prevented, but not enough to do away with legal gun ownership. I think it's the depression that gets them more than the gun.

#8 penultimatestraw

penultimatestraw

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 15,847 posts

Posted 23 October 2018 - 02:20 PM

Seems as though a prime contributor to this mess was the drug companies lying to people about the addiction potential of pain medications, and the existence of unscrupulous doctors who abused the system.  Legalization of pot has also contributed as cartels look for other profitable commodities and their heroin in potent and cheaper than the oxy's and such. 

 

Part of me thinks, fine, let people kill themselves off.....I have little empathy for drug users, but then again, this situation seems like it was built to push this stuff on all of us.

Not sure why doctor are always at the top of the list for blame. Certainly they're are a part of the problem, but marketing and distribution practices coupled with the WHO's emphasis on pain as the "fifth vital sign" have done more to fuel the epidemic.

 

I also like how you leave duplicitous "patients" off the list of culpability. We've had more than one poster here brag about abusing prescription drugs, tricking "stupid" doctors, etc.



#9 penultimatestraw

penultimatestraw

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 15,847 posts

Posted 23 October 2018 - 02:22 PM

I just think people who commit suicide will find another way if a gun isn't available. They do it all the time. Sure, some would be prevented, but not enough to do away with legal gun ownership. I think it's the depression that gets them more than the gun.

It's fine to think that, but guns do it much more quickly and effectively than other methods. And most people who fail in their suicide attempt don't go on to kill themselves at a later date.

 

There's plenty of data showing both suicide and homicide rates dropping when more strict gun control is in place.



#10 bandrus1

bandrus1

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 3,913 posts

Posted 23 October 2018 - 02:25 PM

Treatin pain rather than cause of pain...

How much back, hip, knee pain could be fixed with better eating habits

#11 Ray Lewis's Limo Driver

Ray Lewis's Limo Driver

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 52,923 posts

Posted 23 October 2018 - 02:27 PM

Not sure why doctor are always at the top of the list for blame. Certainly they're are a part of the problem, but marketing and distribution practices coupled with the WHO's emphasis on pain as the "fifth vital sign" have also fueled the epidemic.

 

I also like how you leave duplicitous "patients" off the list of culpability. We've had mire than one poster here brag about abusing prescription drugs, tricking "stupid" doctors, etc.

 

I think your uncertainty might stem from that fact that the doctor was not at the top, the drug companies were, and then unscrupulous  doctors, not all doctors, but the small group of them was all it took.

 

Patients are not off of the list, but there is plenty of data to show that the dramatic increase has an origination, and while I give them a small amount of empathy, I also (perhaps wrongly) dont really care if people cull themselves on their own, let them die.....


To the last, I grapple with thee; From Hell's heart, I stab at thee; For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee.

 

 


#12 penultimatestraw

penultimatestraw

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 15,847 posts

Posted 23 October 2018 - 02:31 PM

Treatin pain rather than cause of pain...

How much back, hip, knee pain could be fixed with better eating habits

If we weren't a country of CBF looking for a quick fix, the numbers would surely drop. 



#13 ZeroTolerance

ZeroTolerance

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 17,576 posts

Posted 23 October 2018 - 02:35 PM

From the emergency department I can safely call bullsh*t on this one. If I see fewer than four overdoses on my shift (7A-7P) it was a slow day.

Republicans are red, Democrats are blue

Neither one of them gives a f*ck about you


#14 penultimatestraw

penultimatestraw

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 15,847 posts

Posted 23 October 2018 - 02:35 PM

 

I think your uncertainty might stem from that fact that the doctor was not at the top, the drug companies were, and then unscrupulous  doctors, not all doctors, but the small group of them was all it took.

 

Patients are not off of the list, but there is plenty of data to show that the dramatic increase has an origination, and while I give them a small amount of empathy, I also (perhaps wrongly) dont really care if people cull themselves on their own, let them die.....

Like I said, doctors played a part. But the small amount that effectively became drug dealers pales in comparison to the numbers of drug-seeking patients.

 

We can agree that drug companies are a major player though.



#15 MDC

MDC

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 54,842 posts

Posted 23 October 2018 - 02:35 PM

If we weren't a country of CBF looking for a quick fix, the numbers would surely drop. 


I have nothing to back this up but I wondered if so many servicemen returning from tours of duty in the ME could be a contributor? I heard recently that some occupations are much more likely to be addicted to opioids - construction and food service at the top of the list. High potential for injury, bad / no benefits or tone off etc.
This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.

#16 penultimatestraw

penultimatestraw

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 15,847 posts

Posted 23 October 2018 - 02:36 PM

From the emergency department I can safely call bullsh*t on this one. If I see fewer than four overdoses on my shift (7A-7P) it was a slow day.

Do they all die?..the OP is about overdose deaths.



#17 Baker Boy

Baker Boy

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 5,373 posts

Posted 23 October 2018 - 02:37 PM

Went from around 5,000 deads from fetenyl and other synthetic opioids to over 30,000 (!) in 2017. Probably just hit peak crisis last year. That figure is insane.

  

So if more people die from overdoses than gun deaths, why so much emphasis on the latter? And when you factor in how many people die from gun deaths from legal gun owners, its minuscule. I have an idea, lock up drug dealers and people with illegal guns and both numbers should plummet. Win-win. Except for the bad guys. Which is nice.


In 2015, 10,265 people died in alcohol-impaired driving crashes, accounting for nearly one-third (29%) of all traffic-related deaths in the United States.

In 2015 over 200 children under the age of 14 were killed by drunk drivers.

#18 Hardcore troubadour

Hardcore troubadour

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 35,461 posts

Posted 23 October 2018 - 02:41 PM

The biggest problem with the war on drugs was putting too much emphasis on drug users. I say treatment for drug users, unless they are committing violent crimes, and real, strict enforcement of drug dealing for hard drugs like Chrystal meth and heroin. Let law enforcement work a case on dealers but when they do get caught they go away for some hard time. And I don't care what color they are. Overdose victims didn't care who they got their junk from.

#19 bandrus1

bandrus1

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 3,913 posts

Posted 23 October 2018 - 02:43 PM

The biggest problem with the war on drugs was putting too much emphasis on drug users. I say treatment for drug users, unless they are committing violent crimes, and real, strict enforcement of drug dealing for hard drugs like Chrystal meth and heroin. Let law enforcement work a case on dealers but when they do get caught they go away for some hard time. And I don't care what color they are. Overdose victims didn't care who they got their junk from.


Agreed here

#20 Ray Lewis's Limo Driver

Ray Lewis's Limo Driver

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 52,923 posts

Posted 23 October 2018 - 02:48 PM

 

:shocking:

 

That is crazy, I do not know a single person that admits to using opioids. I am pretty confident no one in my friends or extended family do.

 

There are areas where a typical day/week finds that 70% of the dead bodies in a morgue are opiod related, some of the hardest hit areas can be found in WV, Ohio, Mass....others....to call it an epidemic would be accurate.


To the last, I grapple with thee; From Hell's heart, I stab at thee; For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee.

 

 


#21 Cloaca du jour

Cloaca du jour

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 5,305 posts

Posted 23 October 2018 - 02:49 PM

The lack of narcan should thin the herd

#22 penultimatestraw

penultimatestraw

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 15,847 posts

Posted 23 October 2018 - 02:50 PM

  
In 2015, 10,265 people died in alcohol-impaired driving crashes, accounting for nearly one-third (29%) of all traffic-related deaths in the United States.

In 2015 over 200 children under the age of 14 were killed by drunk drivers.

You're right that we conveniently ignore the problems with alcohol abuse. 



#23 MDC

MDC

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 54,842 posts

Posted 23 October 2018 - 02:51 PM

We have a series of encampments - junkies living in tents beneath underpasses in the Kensington section of Philly. The city is slowly relocating them to treatment facilities and considering a safe injection site. When I see them I think the most efficient way to deal with the problem would be to dose a large quantity of H with cyanide.
This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.

#24 MDC

MDC

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 54,842 posts

Posted 23 October 2018 - 02:52 PM

The lack of narcan should thin the herd


I saw somebody getting Narcan maybe 6 months ago.

I thought, Why? :dunno:
This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.

#25 penultimatestraw

penultimatestraw

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 15,847 posts

Posted 23 October 2018 - 02:55 PM

We have a series of encampments - junkies living in tents beneath underpasses in the Kensington section of Philly. The city is slowly relocating them to treatment facilities and considering a safe injection site. When I see them I think the most efficient way to deal with the problem would be to dose a large quantity of H with cyanide.

I don't want to feed the trolls, but haven't you tried heroin at some point? While I agree the life of an addict is terrible and heroin is tough to quit, I'd expect a little more empathy from someone who risked going down that path.



#26 MDC

MDC

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 54,842 posts

Posted 23 October 2018 - 02:57 PM

I don't want to feed the trolls, but haven't you tried heroin at some point? While I agree the life of an addict is terrible and heroin is tough to quit, I'd expect a little more empathy from someone who risked going down that path.


Yes I tried it once many years ago. At the point where Im living in a tent beneath and overpass and robbing people to feed my addiction feel free to put me out of my misery too. I would have more sympathy if these people werent a public health hazard and blight on the entire neighborhood.
This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.

#27 penultimatestraw

penultimatestraw

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 15,847 posts

Posted 23 October 2018 - 03:04 PM

Yes I tried it once many years ago. At the point where Im living in a tent beneath and overpass and robbing people to feed my addiction feel free to put me out of my misery too. I would have more sympathy if these people werent a public health hazard and blight on the entire neighborhood.

How do you effectively distribute the cyanide to only kill the addicts, while avoiding casual users who go on to become valued posters on lightly trafficked forearms? 



#28 Ray Lewis's Limo Driver

Ray Lewis's Limo Driver

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 52,923 posts

Posted 23 October 2018 - 03:07 PM

I saw somebody getting Narcan maybe 6 months ago.

I thought, Why? :dunno:

 

Most police officers carry it now, they spend increadible amounts of time racing around narcan'ing people, just insane.


To the last, I grapple with thee; From Hell's heart, I stab at thee; For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee.

 

 


#29 MDC

MDC

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 54,842 posts

Posted 23 October 2018 - 03:10 PM

How do you effectively distribute the cyanide to only kill the addicts, while avoiding casual users who go on to become valued posters on lightly trafficked forearms? 


This is a thought that comes into my head, not a thing I think we should actually do. I cant say Im really empathetic to people who live like the junkies Im describing. Id be satisfied if they go kill themselves somewhere far from where I live. Im straight up NIMBY with that stuff.
This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.

#30 penultimatestraw

penultimatestraw

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 15,847 posts

Posted 23 October 2018 - 03:13 PM

This is a thought that comes into my head, not a thing I think we should actually do. I cant say Im really empathetic to people who live like the junkies Im describing. Id be satisfied if they go kill themselves somewhere far from where I live. Im straight up NIMBY with that stuff.

The problem is they're showing up in too many back yards. We've got a least one recovering addict on this bored, and I'm sure others amongst our extended friends and family. Except MTSki.



#31 MDC

MDC

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 54,842 posts

Posted 23 October 2018 - 03:20 PM

The problem is they're showing up in too many back yards. We've got a least one recovering addict on this bored, and I'm sure others amongst our extended friends and family. Except MTSki.


Yep. I still dont want large numbers of these people living in my city, robbing peoples cars and houses, pissing and shitting in public, littering their needles all over and setting up tent camps beneath bridges. A substantial % of these folks are also HIV positive or have hepatitis. They should be forced into treatment or moved someplace where they are not a blight on the neighborhood. I feel worse for the non addicts who live in neighborhoods like Kensington than I do for the junkies squatting there.
This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.

#32 tanatastic

tanatastic

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 22,847 posts

Posted 23 October 2018 - 03:24 PM

Yes, but what about small towns in Alaska? That’s the real measuring stick here.

#33 bandrus1

bandrus1

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 3,913 posts

Posted 23 October 2018 - 03:33 PM

How do you effectively distribute the cyanide to only kill the addicts, while avoiding casual users who go on to become valued posters on lightly trafficked forearms? 


This was pretty funny

#34 penultimatestraw

penultimatestraw

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 15,847 posts

Posted 23 October 2018 - 03:45 PM

Yep. I still dont want large numbers of these people living in my city, robbing peoples cars and houses, pissing and shitting in public, littering their needles all over and setting up tent camps beneath bridges. A substantial % of these folks are also HIV positive or have hepatitis. They should be forced into treatment or moved someplace where they are not a blight on the neighborhood. I feel worse for the non addicts who live in neighborhoods like Kensington than I do for the junkies squatting there.

As a resident of the state with arguably the worst homeless (many of whom are addicts) problem, I can assure you there are a lot of obstacles to just moving them "someplace" and forcing detox.



#35 MDC

MDC

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 54,842 posts

Posted 23 October 2018 - 03:47 PM

As a resident of the state with arguably the worst homeless (many of whom are addicts) problem, I can assure you there are a lot of obstacles to just moving them "someplace" and forcing detox.


Thats not news to me either. Im giving you my wish list here, which starts with them festering someplace else.
This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.

#36 Hardcore troubadour

Hardcore troubadour

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 35,461 posts

Posted 23 October 2018 - 03:48 PM

As a resident of the state with arguably the worst homeless (many of whom are addicts) problem, I can assure you there are a lot of obstacles to just moving them "someplace" and forcing detox.


Which leads me to believe that cutting off, or severely limiting the supply is the best route.

#37 Ray Lewis's Limo Driver

Ray Lewis's Limo Driver

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 52,923 posts

Posted 23 October 2018 - 04:07 PM

Which leads me to believe that cutting off, or severely limiting the supply is the best route.

It was the severe limitations the government places on access to prescription pain killers that invigorated the move of addicts to heroin.   There is no magic bullet, treatment is an absolute must.


To the last, I grapple with thee; From Hell's heart, I stab at thee; For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee.

 

 


#38 penultimatestraw

penultimatestraw

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 15,847 posts

Posted 23 October 2018 - 04:08 PM

Thats not news to me either. Im giving you my wish list here, which starts with them festering someplace else.

OK, but that isn't a viable solution.



#39 MDC

MDC

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 54,842 posts

Posted 23 October 2018 - 04:10 PM

OK, but that isn't a viable solution.


Obviously they should be relocated to neighborhoods with people who have more empathy than me.
This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.

#40 penultimatestraw

penultimatestraw

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 15,847 posts

Posted 23 October 2018 - 04:11 PM

Which leads me to believe that cutting off, or severely limiting the supply is the best route.

The supply definitely needs to be limited/controlled. And to build upon your earlier post, I'm sure we'll agree the same can be said for guns.