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U.S. 'turning the tide' on the opioid crisis


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#41 Hardcore troubadour

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Posted 23 October 2018 - 04:12 PM

It was the severe limitations the government places on access to prescription pain killers that invigorated the move of addicts to heroin.   There is no magic bullet, treatment is an absolute must.


Treatment and prevention (via enforcement) . Shouid make great improvements. Not perfection, but a lot better.

#42 penultimatestraw

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Posted 23 October 2018 - 04:14 PM

Obviously they should be relocated to neighborhoods with people who have more empathy than me.

Or maybe you should move to an area with more heartless a-holes? One of them probably can score some cyanide.



#43 Ray Lewis's Limo Driver

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Posted 23 October 2018 - 04:16 PM

Treatment and prevention (via enforcement) . Shouid make great improvements. Not perfection, but a lot better.

 

Agree.  Rhode Island actually has a progressive program that seems to be working.


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#44 MDC

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Posted 23 October 2018 - 04:26 PM

Or maybe you should move to an area with more heartless a-holes? One of them probably can score some cyanide.


There are volunteers who go down to these encampments to distribute food and water. What % of these empathetic souls do you figure actually live in Kensington? I would guess roughly zero. The people who live there dont want human pidgeons setting up a heroin tent camp on their block, heartless a holes.
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#45 kutulu

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Posted 23 October 2018 - 06:14 PM

What are you, people? On dope? :unsure:
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#46 shorepatrol

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Posted 23 October 2018 - 06:17 PM

Went from around 5,000 deads from fetenyl and other synthetic opioids to over 30,000 (!) in 2017. Probably just hit peak crisis last year. That figure is insane.

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#47 shorepatrol

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Posted 23 October 2018 - 06:18 PM

Most of them probably can score some cyanide.

Hopefully 



#48 Drizzay

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Posted 23 October 2018 - 06:28 PM

There is one in SE Minneapolis on some land that belongs to one of the tribes. Most of the residents are natives that have been kicked out of halfway houses. The dealers there have free reign at night. They are having an OD almost ever night. It is going to get really cold really soon. it is sad.
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#49 bandrus1

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Posted 23 October 2018 - 07:43 PM

Which leads me to believe that cutting off, or severely limiting the supply is the best route.


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#50 RaiderHater's Revenge

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Posted 23 October 2018 - 09:19 PM

Not sure why doctor are always at the top of the list for blame. Certainly they're are a part of the problem, but marketing and distribution practices coupled with the WHO's emphasis on pain as the "fifth vital sign" have done more to fuel the epidemic.

 

I also like how you leave duplicitous "patients" off the list of culpability. We've had more than one poster here brag about abusing prescription drugs, tricking "stupid" doctors, etc.

 

anyone else find irony in this that Pen doesn't want to blame the doctors for this (which I agree) but he does like to blame those inanimate objects for suicides


Suck it Rockford---

 

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#51 penultimatestraw

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Posted 23 October 2018 - 11:36 PM

anyone else find irony in this that Pen doesn't want to blame the doctors for this (which I agree) but he does like to blame those inanimate objects for suicides

Nope. Doctors deserve some of the blame, just not as much as the public wants to assign to them. People act as if they are helpless in the whole process of drug abuse - whatever happened to personal responsibility/accountability?



#52 shorepatrol

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Posted 23 October 2018 - 11:43 PM

whatever happened to personal responsibility/accountability?

Now you're a conservative? :lol:  :lol:  :lol:



#53 penultimatestraw

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Posted 23 October 2018 - 11:45 PM

Now you're a conservative? :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

No, but I’m communicating with one :wacko:

#54 RaiderHater's Revenge

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Posted 23 October 2018 - 11:52 PM

Nope. Doctors deserve some of the, just not as much as the public wants to assign to them. People act as if they are helpless in the whole process of drug abuse - whatever happened to personal responsibility/accountability?

 

I agree, I fully prescribe to personal responsibility

 

bottom line is like suicide, a vast majority of opiate deaths are due to depression


Suck it Rockford---

 

The Right protests the killing of babies, the left protests EVERYTHING else


#55 shorepatrol

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 12:49 AM

No, but I’m communicating with one :wacko:

Brilliant, as usual  :clap:



#56 penultimatestraw

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 03:55 AM

 

I agree, I fully prescribe to personal responsibility

 

bottom line is like suicide, a vast majority of opiate deaths are due to depression

Yes, many, if not most substance abusers have mood disorders.



#57 ZeroTolerance

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 05:29 AM

Do they all die?..the OP is about overdose deaths.

 

I'm calling bullsh*t on the "turning the tide on the opiod crisis" statement. Saving them so they can continue using and OD again later isn't fixing anything.


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#58 wiffleball

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 05:41 AM

I would bet that if we could only find one overarching factor, it would be far more widespread use of Narcan by Leo's.

But MDC is right; after that peak? Damn ..
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#59 wiffleball

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 05:51 AM

Nope. Doctors deserve some of the blame, just not as much as the public wants to assign to them. People act as if they are helpless in the whole process of drug abuse - whatever happened to personal responsibility/accountability?


From memory, Purdue came right out and said one of their drugs like oxy or hydro didn't have any addiction issues.


Amazing. Now compare that to all the warnings that cigarette makers have to put on their packs.

-----------In much of its promotional campaignin literature and audiotapes for physicians, brochures and videotapes for patients, and its Partners Against Pain Web sitePurdue claimed that the risk of addiction from OxyContin was extremely small.4349

Purdue trained its sales representatives to carry the message that the risk of addiction was less than one percent.

----------

Really interesting, comprehensive article.
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC2622774/
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#60 Ray Lewis's Limo Driver

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 07:13 AM

Now you're a conservative? :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

 

the notion that accountability is the exclusive domain of conservatism is not true, liberals do have this element, just in lesser quantity, and quality as well.

 

The application of this concept to opiod addiction is an indicator of ignorance on the topic, and it is this ignorance that has helped the issue grow, thankfully reason is creeping in to the situation, albeit slowly.


To the last, I grapple with thee; From Hell's heart, I stab at thee; For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee.

 

 


#61 Ray Lewis's Limo Driver

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 07:40 AM

https://www.drugabus...maries-by-state

The opioid epidemic has avoided places where I have lived in the past and where my family and wife's family lives.

You do not need to be condescending to me in this regard. I am speaking the truth to the best of my knowledge.

 

Most of what I have read points to the overuse/oversupply of pain medication as the entry point that led to heroin becoming so much more prevalent, and it likely did not help when the dealers started mixing in fentanyl to boot the perception of quality. it is rather telling that you can drive by a police barracks and instead of DUI/DWI deaths being counted on it, they show overdoses....


To the last, I grapple with thee; From Hell's heart, I stab at thee; For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee.

 

 


#62 patweisers44

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 07:41 AM

From the emergency department I can safely call bullsh*t on this one. If I see fewer than four overdoses on my shift (7A-7P) it was a slow day.

which ER is this ZeroT?


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#63 penultimatestraw

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 07:54 AM

From memory, Purdue came right out and said one of their drugs like oxy or hydro didn't have any addiction issues.


Amazing. Now compare that to all the warnings that cigarette makers have to put on their packs.

-----------In much of its promotional campaignin literature and audiotapes for physicians, brochures and videotapes for patients, and its Partners Against Pain Web sitePurdue claimed that the risk of addiction from OxyContin was extremely small.4349

Purdue trained its sales representatives to carry the message that the risk of addiction was less than one percent.

----------

Really interesting, comprehensive article.
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC2622774/

Yep, pharmaceutical companies are weaselly. And doctors have been pretty gullible regarding their claims of addiction risk.



#64 penultimatestraw

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 07:56 AM

https://www.drugabus...maries-by-state

The opioid epidemic has avoided places where I have lived in the past and where my family and wife's family lives.

You do not need to be condescending to me in this regard. I am speaking the truth to the best of my knowledge.

I wasn't being condescending...it was a joke. Truthfully, nobody I know has been affected either, but I see it regularly at my job. 



#65 Ray Lewis's Limo Driver

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 07:57 AM

Yep, pharmaceutical companies are weaselly. And doctors have been pretty gullible regarding their claims of addiction risk.

 

These were contributors for sure, and I would also suggest that the overall response has made it even worse, and it has taken almost 20 years to finally figure out how to fight this thing.


To the last, I grapple with thee; From Hell's heart, I stab at thee; For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee.

 

 


#66 penultimatestraw

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 07:58 AM

 

the notion that accountability is the exclusive domain of conservatism is not true, liberals do have this element, just in lesser quantity, and quality as well.

 

The application of this concept to opiod addiction is an indicator of ignorance on the topic, and it is this ignorance that has helped the issue grow, thankfully reason is creeping in to the situation, albeit slowly.

What are you trying to say, opioid addicts have no power to curb their abuse?



#67 Ray Lewis's Limo Driver

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 08:02 AM

What are you trying to say, opioid addicts have no power to curb their abuse?

 

They have some power, but this drug changes the brain and body to the extent that it is as much a physical dependency as it is mental.  They are focking morons for abusing drugs, but once the die is cast, they face hurdles to break free that almost none of them can do on their own.  Treatment has been proven to be successful, and even with intensive treatment there is a fair amount that simply cannot break free, and eventually die.

 

On the one hand I think, good, weak genetics eliminated means the gene pool strengthens, and less competition for resources, but on the other hand...what if it was your mom, or sister, or wife...or whatever.... I guess I can see both sides to this.


To the last, I grapple with thee; From Hell's heart, I stab at thee; For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee.

 

 


#68 MDC

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 08:05 AM

What are you trying to say, opioid addicts have no power to curb their abuse?


I cant speak for RLLD, but I think what hes trying to say is that pharmacon devotees have no aptitude to curtail their delinquency.

Is that right Ray?
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#69 Ray Lewis's Limo Driver

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 08:07 AM

I cant speak for RLLD, but I think what hes trying to say is that pharmacon devotees have no aptitude to curtail their delinquency.

Is that right Ray?

 

Nope, try again....   :overhead:


To the last, I grapple with thee; From Hell's heart, I stab at thee; For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee.

 

 


#70 penultimatestraw

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 08:09 AM

 

They have some power, but this drug changes the brain and body to the extent that it is as much a physical dependency as it is mental.  They are focking morons for abusing drugs, but once the die is cast, they face hurdles to break free that almost none of them can do on their own.  Treatment has been proven to be successful, and even with intensive treatment there is a fair amount that simply cannot break free, and eventually die.

 

On the one hand I think, good, weak genetics eliminated means the gene pool strengthens, and less competition for resources, but on the other hand...what if it was your mom, or sister, or wife...or whatever.... I guess I can see both sides to this.

I'm not saying there is no physiologic basis for addiction...just commenting that the actions of drug-seeking individuals are often overlooked when we're assigning blame for the crisis. But you're right, once you're hooked on drugs like opioids or meth, its super tough (but not impossible) to quit.



#71 Ray Lewis's Limo Driver

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 08:24 AM

I'm not saying there is no physiologic basis for addiction...just commenting that the actions of drug-seeking individuals are often overlooked when we're assigning blame for the crisis. But you're right, once you're hooked on drugs like opioids or meth, its super tough (but not impossible) to quit.

 

I think we agree more than we disagree    :thumbsup:

 

Have you heard the opinions on this situation from the SJW side of the equation, pretty enlightening.  ^_^


To the last, I grapple with thee; From Hell's heart, I stab at thee; For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee.

 

 


#72 wiffleball

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 08:48 AM

What are you trying to say, opioid addicts have no power to curb their abuse?


Don't they say that fentnyl is like X times more addicting than morphine?
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#73 wiffleball

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 08:50 AM

Yep, pharmaceutical companies are weaselly. And doctors have been pretty gullible regarding their claims of addiction risk.


Those all expense paid conferences help.
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#74 Ray Lewis's Limo Driver

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 08:50 AM

Don't they say that fentnyl is like X times more addicting than morphine?

 

Fentanyl is about 50-100 times more potent than morphine and 50 times more potent than many forms of heroin.  Not sure how that translates into addictive potential, but it does basically make it poison even in tiny amounts.  Cops have to wear gloves and masks if they even think it is present, inhaling it can kill you.


To the last, I grapple with thee; From Hell's heart, I stab at thee; For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee.

 

 


#75 penultimatestraw

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 02:20 PM

Those all expense paid conferences help.

They do, but those were all curtailed before I started practice. 



#76 penultimatestraw

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 02:23 PM

 

Fentanyl is about 50-100 times more potent than morphine and 50 times more potent than many forms of heroin.  Not sure how that translates into addictive potential, but it does basically make it poison even in tiny amounts.  Cops have to wear gloves and masks if they even think it is present, inhaling it can kill you.

It's also short acting. Both high potency and short duration of action promote abuse. But there are other factors as well, as some opioids generate euphoria more effectively than others - Demerol and Dilaudid come to mind.



#77 Baker Boy

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 03:17 PM

Which leads me to believe that cutting off, or severely limiting the supply is the best route.


Which will never happen with open borders. This country must figure out who we want to be!

#78 ZeroTolerance

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 05:14 PM

which ER is this ZeroT?

 

Good old Flint.


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#79 DonS

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 06:06 PM

I feel like a heartless bastard, but I've become completely hardened to this entire business. Probably due to the fact that I can sit in my office and watch dudes at the bus stop shoot up right out in the open without any fear of the cops doing a g0ddamn thing. On the other hand I'm fairly certain I would get a ticket if I walked down the street with an open container.

Oh yeah, Seattle City Council also wants to open up a safe injection site. After all the public push back -- not in my focking neighborhood -- they even suggested using a "mobile" safe injection site in an RV. Christ almighty.

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#80 jerryskids

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 06:21 PM

Yep. I still dont want large numbers of these people living in my city, robbing peoples cars and houses, pissing and shitting in public, littering their needles all over and setting up tent camps beneath bridges. A substantial % of these folks are also HIV positive or have hepatitis. They should be forced into treatment or moved someplace where they are not a blight on the neighborhood. I feel worse for the non addicts who live in neighborhoods like Kensington than I do for the junkies squatting there.

 

Sounds like San Francisco.

 

Anyway, in the interest of what we can control, I'd start with over prescribing of opioids.  5-ish years ago I had two surgeries within a year on my foot.  In both cases I was prescribed Oxy-based narcotics.  In neither case did I really need them.  IMO the doc should have said "hey, we sliced your foot open and that may hurt for a while, take some Advil/Aleve/Tylenol and if it is still beyond your poossy pain tolerance we'll consider some more serious stuff."  But it was easier for him to just give me the scrip for narcs.  :(


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