alejandro villanueva

[Franknbeans 46]

F this noise. If the Steelers really care, they'll show up and pound an inferior opponent. The O-line has sucked donkey balls.

[yanko 11]

Villanueva regrets "throwing team under the bus"

 

https://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2017/9/24/16357738/alejandro-villanueva-u-s-army-veteran-lone-steeler-on-field-national-anthem

He seems like a great teammate and human being . Quite the opposite of those snowflakes afraid of black men kneeling running to buy his jersey.

[TBayXXXVII 2,104]

Villanueva regrets "throwing team under the bus"

 

https://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2017/9/24/16357738/alejandro-villanueva-u-s-army-veteran-lone-steeler-on-field-national-anthem

 

But he didn't say that if he had to do it again, he'd do it differently.

[TBayXXXVII 2,104]

Saw these on MMQB:

 

 

I really like the one from Montgomery.

 

I think his comments are a sign of ignorance. People ARE NOT against the players protesting... it's HOW they're going about it.

[cyclone24 1,787]

I think his comments are a sign of ignorance. People ARE NOT against the players protesting... it's HOW they're going about it.

Exactly........good to see it backfiring. The league doesn't have nearly as much support as they think they do.

[IMMensaMind 459]

I think his comments are a sign of ignorance. People ARE NOT against the players protesting... it's HOW they're going about it.

https://www.facebook.com/ArtTakingBack/videos/1619207474833083/

[Maulers1973 117]

http://deadline.com/2017/09/redskins-sunday-night-football-ratings-nfl-protests-star-trek-discovery-donald-trump-nbc-1202176141/

 

 

I'm still playing FF, but I won't watch the games until they stop. That's my freedom of choice NFL.

 

 

Alienating fans is a really dumb thing to do!! If they were smart, they'd "unite" on that front.

[IMMensaMind 459]

I think his comments are a sign of ignorance. People ARE NOT against the players protesting... it's HOW they're going about it.

Montgomery means well, and he's a classy guy. So many people are stuck in a circumstance that they do not fully understand, and he's one of them.

 

So much potential power for good, and so much of it is being squandered by forces whose goal is to sow discontent, and not healing.

 

And it isn't Trump, nor those like the guy whose video I just posted. It's those who are behind the hard leftist movement pushing this anti-flag narrative.

 

Make no mistake: those who are uncomfortable disrespecting the flag and those who shed blood defending it are speaking out in their discomfort, but those who promulgated the action knew they were taking on the flag, and America and Americans, by extension. It was a willful act with a purpose.

 

It appears to be backfiring, as I would have expected it to.

[IMMensaMind 459]

He seems like a great teammate and human being . Quite the opposite of those snowflakes afraid of black men kneeling running to buy his jersey.

No one is afraid of black men kneeling, though your pathetic attempt to make this once again about race is noted and dismissed for the garbage that it is.

 

Here's what is going on with Villenueva. Tomlin is the cause of the issues with the Steelers. Tomlin not only is a weak coach - in many ways a really bad coach - but primary amongst them is his utter tone-deafness in compelling Villeneuva to stand in front of the cameras and yet again shield his team. Tomlin's own ideological shortcomings, as well as his own personality shortcomings as a terrible substitute for a leader, caused him to allow Villenueva to throw himself under the bus to have his team save face. He likely didn't even have to ask Villenueva. Alejandro heard the anger in his coach, and regardless who was truly at fault, AV knew what he had to do.

 

That's what happened here. Tomlin's a pathetic excuse for a coach, and a pathetic excuse for a man.

 

Villenueva is a Ranger. That's what Rangers do. Look up LDRSHIP. <---it's an ACRONYM, spelled exactly like that. Villenueva is wired to protect his country, and protect his team. This is his way of doing both.

 

Villeneuva knew that Tomlin was irate about Villenueva's stand - 100% unjustifiably, as it was known LAST YEAR that Villenueva wasn't going to do anything but honor the flag - and the backlash from the fans as a result of TOMLIN'S refusal to allow the team to stand with Villenueva. This is Tomlin's weakness; no one else's. Plenty of players on the team felt absolutely awful about the impossible position that TOMLIN put the team in, and - to attempt to keep some semblance of unity within that locker room, Villenueva granted his C/O - Tomlin - this cover. Roethlisberger has already made a public statement, as the other team leader. His statement was a manifestation of the disaster that Tomlin has created within that team.

 

It is also, IMO, a major reason why they lost to the Bears.

 

The team knows who the problem really is. James Harrison - another leader on that team - is also absolulely disgusted. He made his feelings known last year when he said anyone who refused to stand for the Anthem would have to go through him. This action has put Tomlin at loggerheads with his own team. I do not expect him to be around next year; I think it will become too obvious who is really to blame for sowing dischord there.

 

Villenueva's press conference is an absolute clinic on what it means to be the most powerful of true Americans who is also a case study in humility. He is, in every way, the epitome of a Ranger.

 

And I know. My brother is a Ranger.

[jgcrawfish 232]

Let me stop you right here. Not one thing Trump said supported a restriction of freedom of speech. Not one thing. Go ahead and try to argue that with me, but I'll warn you in advance: you're going to lose.

 

If nothing that Trump said supports the restriction of freedoms, why is it that the NFL players are reacting the way they are to it? If Trump had said "Anybody who wears an orange shirt to their job should be fired by their employers" people who like to wear orange shirts would take that as a not-so-veiled threat.

 

No, your grandfather does. You're simply the beneficiary. And you also do not appear to be aware that freedoms - like of speech - are not unconditional. Were it so, it would be illegal for employers to sign contracts with employees that restrict their behaviours in both word and deed.

 

In much the same way you know the Ranger code because your brother is one? Don't lecture me about not knowing the price of serving when you know NOTHING about me and when you know military code by association. And while freedoms like speech are not unconditional they are GUARANTEED. None of those protesting are disparaging America or the flag by kneeling, they are only attempting to bring light to a subject that otherwise does not live in the public eye.

 

Excellent. That doesn't mean that you cannot say a single thing in criticism of the nature of their protest.

For a learned guy, your use of the double negative is perplexing. Let's see, two negatives make a positive...or was it two wrongs make a right...

 

Oh, he could have done better. Like stopping mid-play and unraveling a BLM banner. That certainly would have put his message out in quite a noteworthy way, and wouldn't have pissed on our flag in the process.

So, by saying this, you're saying he could have done better. I don't see how. The movement he started (and that our President stoked the fire of) has gone from a handful of guys to three whole teams refusing to come out and numerous players not only kneeling, but their teammates supporting those who do with locked arms. Kaep is, to quote Charlie Sheen, "WINNNING!"

 

Oh, there is quite certainly a right and a wrong here. All opinions are not equal. All that is equal is the right to express them. Once expressed, they rise or fall based upon merit.

And who the hell are you to judge whether it is right or wrong? "I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing". Just because it isn't YOUR belief does NOT make it incorrect...it just makes it inconvenient for you.

 

 

 

That is already part of NFL player's contract. They have a personal conduct component to their contracts, and actions they take are left to the discretion of their bosses.

The problem is that the bosses - NFL team owners - are placed in a nearly unwinnable situation, and it's just one of the reasons why it was so unreasonable and inflammatory for players to engage in this. If they side with the players, they piss off the fans. If they side with the fans, they piss off the players.

 

And yet, despite this unwinnable situation, many owners DID support their fans. And yet some fans (clearly you not being one) were not pissed off, in fact they supported the players and applauded the owners for also doing it. When guys who should be siding with Trump like Shad Khan and Jerry Jones stand arms locked and even kneeling with their players, something tells me you're off base.

 

I've watched your posts over the years and been impressed by the thought that goes into them sometimes and from afar deemed you an intelligent person. You've also taken exactly one post to prove the narrow mindedness behind some of the keenness. You judge from afar a situation you clearly cannot relate to nor grasp and make assertions and condemnations on...which is completely your right to do...but it doesn't mean you're correct.

[jgcrawfish 232]

No one is afraid of black men kneeling, though your pathetic attempt to make this once again about race is noted and dismissed for the garbage that it is.

 

Here's what is going on with Villenueva. Tomlin is the cause of the issues with the Steelers. Tomlin not only is a weak coach - in many ways a really bad coach - but primary amongst them is his utter tone-deafness in compelling Villeneuva to stand in front of the cameras and yet again shield his team. Tomlin's own ideological shortcomings, as well as his own personality shortcomings as a terrible substitute for a leader, caused him to allow Villenueva to throw himself under the bus to have his team save face. He likely didn't even have to ask Villenueva. Alejandro heard the anger in his coach, and regardless who was truly at fault, AV knew what he had to do.

 

That's what happened here. Tomlin's a pathetic excuse for a coach, and a pathetic excuse for a man.

 

Villenueva is a Ranger. That's what Rangers do. Look up LDRSHIP. <---it's an ACRONYM, spelled exactly like that. Villenueva is wired to protect his country, and protect his team. This is his way of doing both.

 

Villeneuva knew that Tomlin was irate about Villenueva's stand - 100% unjustifiably, as it was known LAST YEAR that Villenueva wasn't going to do anything but honor the flag - and the backlash from the fans as a result of TOMLIN'S refusal to allow the team to stand with Villenueva. This is Tomlin's weakness; no one else's. Plenty of players on the team felt absolutely awful about the impossible position that TOMLIN put the team in, and - to attempt to keep some semblance of unity within that locker room, Villenueva granted his C/O - Tomlin - this cover. Roethlisberger has already made a public statement, as the other team leader. His statement was a manifestation of the disaster that Tomlin has created within that team.

 

It is also, IMO, a major reason why they lost to the Bears.

 

The team knows who the problem really is. James Harrison - another leader on that team - is also absolulely disgusted. He made his feelings known last year when he said anyone who refused to stand for the Anthem would have to go through him. This action has put Tomlin at loggerheads with his own team. I do not expect him to be around next year; I think it will become too obvious who is really to blame for sowing dischord there.

 

Villenueva's press conference is an absolute clinic on what it means to be the most powerful of true Americans who is also a case study in humility. He is, in every way, the epitome of a Ranger.

 

And I know. My brother is a Ranger.

You bring up the only "real" issues in all this, as far as the Steelers go, how united were the players and why? Clearly Villenueva wasn't on-board, and I struggle to imagine that Harrison was either. But the question is, which loyalty runs deeper: That of teammate beholden to your brothers or that of the American beholden to showing respect for our colors and song? Again, I'm not agreeing with anyone who knelt, turned away or stayed in the tunnel or locker room...I'm agreeing with their right to do so. And I'm not agreeing with Villenueva for respecting the flag and having it trump his loyalty to the team, but again, I am agreeing with his right do to it. Nobody burned a flag, nobody said disparaging words about our nation...and the Steelers as a team showed their respect for the colors behind closed doors...then they simply voiced displeasure by not walking out for a ceremonial event (minus Al). Hell, there weren't even any bra's burned in protest.

 

As for Tomlin, he's a players coach...and the fact is that most of his players are black and many can at least relate to the struggles of the BLM movement, much more so than those not of color. If you think Tomlin can't relate, read the story about the Police Chief in the area who dropped the N word to describe Tomlin after the team stayed back in the tunnel. Read into the comments of Trump as he turns to the fans of NASCAR as the real American fans of a real sport, only to feel the backlash there as well for his stupidity. Tomlin may or may not be the issue in the Steelers locker room, but he certainly isn't the issue the country is facing.

[ChinaCat 21]

 

If nothing that Trump said supports the restriction of freedoms, why is it that the NFL players are reacting the way they are to it?

Because they are F'in stupid.

[bandrus1 413]

Because they are F'in stupid.

And poopy heads

[IMMensaMind 459]

If nothing that Trump said supports the restriction of freedoms, why is it that the NFL players are reacting the way they are to it?

 

Because they're petty and they're stupid. Did you really need to ask this question instead of simply proving to us what restriction of freedoms Trump condoned?

 

 

If Trump had said "Anybody who wears an orange shirt to their job should be fired by their employers" people who like to wear orange shirts would take that as a not-so-veiled threat.

 

I have no idea why you think that is analogous. There is an NFL behaviour policy already in place which requires players to behave in a very specific way when the Anthem is played. These players violated their contracts. That clause has been posted in this forearm.

 

If you can cite some employment clause forbidding orange shirts, you'd have a point, and - even then - the gravity of the comparison falls flat.

 

 

 

In much the same way you know the Ranger code because your brother is one? Don't lecture me about not knowing the price of serving when you know NOTHING about me and when you know military code by association.

 

You said you knew the sacrifice because your grandfather served. No, you don't. You heard about the sacrifice. That's it. I was citing how Rangers act, and what their personal code of conduct is. Did you happen to look up LDRSHIP and Army Rangers?

 

Again: you seem to be complaining that because I know Ranger code that it should also mean that you know what the sacrifice your grandfather made was like. I don't find the two comparable, but it's also a really minor point.

 

My brother is still in Afghanistan, btw. 6th tour.

 

 

And while freedoms like speech are not unconditional they are GUARANTEED.

 

No one is arguing that - but you must be implying that 'guaranteed' means "free from fear of being fired", or "free from being criticized". Neither is true.

 

Please explain why you felt it important to make a point no one was contesting.

 

 

None of those protesting are disparaging America or the flag by kneeling, they are only attempting to bring light to a subject that otherwise does not live in the public eye.

 

No, you're 100% wrong. You need do no more than witness the pissed of reactions of tens of thousands of people to see why you're wrong, including Villaneuva's refusal to participate in that dishonorable act. Simply refusing to remove one's hat during the Anthem is a sign of disrespect, so how exactly do you plan on credibly arguing that kneeling isn't? The argument doesn't become true merely because you make it, crawfish.

 

 

 

For a learned guy, your use of the double negative is perplexing. Let's see, two negatives make a positive...or was it two wrongs make a right...

 

Uh, there was nothing grammatically incorrect about that sentence. That isn't no double negative (sic). It's more like "two petty posters don't adequately compensate for one good poster".

 

 

 

So, by saying this, you're saying he could have done better. I don't see how. The movement he started (and that our President stoked the fire of) has gone from a handful of guys to three whole teams refusing to come out and numerous players not only kneeling, but their teammates supporting those who do with locked arms. Kaep is, to quote Charlie Sheen, "WINNNING!"

 

You have an odd idea of winning. I suspect it's something like "Hillary outspent Trump 3 to 1. Winning!" Or "Hillary lost not because she couldn't get her message out, but because she did."

 

You fail to understand that the purpose of Trump escalating the issue was to force the NFL's hand, and to elevate public awareness of the actions of asshats, and the complicity of the NFL. In so doing, he's putting their feet to the fire.

 

And - for all Kaepernick's winning - not a single NFL team will employ him. That 'trumps' any claim you can possibly make regarding his 'success'.

 

 

 

And who the hell are you to judge whether it is right or wrong?

 

Well, in pretty much exactly the same way you decided to take issue with it. It's my opinion. Your job is to attempt to provide a better one. So far, you aren't.

 

 

"I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing". Just because it isn't YOUR belief does NOT make it incorrect...it just makes it inconvenient for you.

 

You're a moral relativist. I'm not surprised. Here's the thing, fish: not all 'rebellions' are equal. Some are flat stupid.

 

 

And yet, despite this unwinnable situation, many owners DID support their fans. And yet some fans (clearly you not being one) were not pissed off, in fact they supported the players and applauded the owners for also doing it.

 

Yeah, there's a name for them. They're called 'the minority'. Ratings are dropping; people are burning jerseys. So your claim that "many owners DID support their fans" makes no sense. They clearly pissed off a ton of them.

 

Marketing ain't your bag, baby. You don't bring politics into business because you will inevitably piss off a large portion of your clientele. This is Business 101.

 

 

When guys who should be siding with Trump like Shad Khan and Jerry Jones stand arms locked and even kneeling with their players, something tells me you're off base.

 

I've watched your posts over the years and been impressed by the thought that goes into them sometimes and from afar deemed you an intelligent person. You've also taken exactly one post to prove the narrow mindedness behind some of the keenness.

 

You judge from afar a situation you clearly cannot relate to nor grasp and make assertions and condemnations on...which is completely your right to do...but it doesn't mean you're correct.

 

You shouldn't be listening to that "something". It's leading you astray. Both of those men are - as I said - in an unwinnable situation. They must attempt to walk the middle: not further piss off fans, while also keeping their teams unified.

 

FTR though: I have no problem with Jones kneeling with his players before the Anthem. That is hardly the same thing as during the Anthem, right? I didn't see what Khan did, nor do I know a thing about his politics.

 

This isn't narrow mindedness. This is a strong and considered opinion that I will defend. These players are wrong; they violated their contracts and they picked an insanely stupid fight which has created further polarization; alienated a shitton of their fans, put their owners in tight spots, and gave Trump an opportunity to further highlight the divisive nature of identity politics.

 

I suspect you consider it narrow only because you disagree with my position, but cannot formulate a cogent counter to it.

 

I have no idea why you would assume that I cannot relate. I have full grasp of the variables involved here. And just because you take issue doesn't mean that you're correct either.

[IMMensaMind 459]

You bring up the only "real" issues in all this, as far as the Steelers go, how united were the players and why? Clearly Villenueva wasn't on-board, and I struggle to imagine that Harrison was either. But the question is, which loyalty runs deeper: That of teammate beholden to your brothers or that of the American beholden to showing respect for our colors and song? Again, I'm not agreeing with anyone who knelt, turned away or stayed in the tunnel or locker room...I'm agreeing with their right to do so. And I'm not agreeing with Villenueva for respecting the flag and having it trump his loyalty to the team, but again, I am agreeing with his right do to it. Nobody burned a flag, nobody said disparaging words about our nation...and the Steelers as a team showed their respect for the colors behind closed doors...then they simply voiced displeasure by not walking out for a ceremonial event (minus Al). Hell, there weren't even any bra's burned in protest.

 

As for Tomlin, he's a players coach...and the fact is that most of his players are black and many can at least relate to the struggles of the BLM movement, much more so than those not of color. If you think Tomlin can't relate, read the story about the Police Chief in the area who dropped the N word to describe Tomlin after the team stayed back in the tunnel. Read into the comments of Trump as he turns to the fans of NASCAR as the real American fans of a real sport, only to feel the backlash there as well for his stupidity. Tomlin may or may not be the issue in the Steelers locker room, but he certainly isn't the issue the country is facing.

 

I wasn't calling Tomlin anything other than culpable for that sht show that resulted in Villenueva being compelled to fall on a sword in self-sacrifice to attempt to have his teammates save face. Tomlin put that team in that untenable situation. No way do I buy the flimsy and contrived story that Al simply didn't know his teammates weren't around him. He knew they weren't around him. What he did was - in order:

 

1. Honor his country via the Anthem; more specifically: he refused to dishonor either.

 

2. After doing so, he felt the wrath of his petty and tone-deaf coach, who actually excoriated him for doing something that he should have OBVIOUSLY known he would have done. He's a focking Ranger, FFS. NO WAY are you ever going to get a Ranger to disrespect the flag, particularly someone of Villenueva's pedigree. Tomlin was a dumbass in even forcing the issue, and then doubled down on his hattery by ripping Al afterwards - which then caused Al to make it appear as though it was HIS fault.

 

He was literally sacrificing himself for his team there.

 

So, Al took the path he felt would allow him to live up to his convictions in both regards: protect his country, and protect his team.

 

I have zero respect for Tomlin, which was easy for me to conclude, because I also never felt he was anything but a mediocre coach.

[ChinaCat 21]

The NY Yankees don't allow players to have facial hair. They haven't for 20 years or more.

 

 

They are asked before they sign if they agree to that. And if they break the rule I'm sure that would void the contract.

[Antiramie 50]

How's the circle jerk going guys?

[IMMensaMind 459]

How's the circle jerk going guys?

For the last time, no. Your hands are too small.

[jgcrawfish 232]

 

 

So, I'd love to say I understand your innumerable points, but they ring only of narrowness and division. You have made it crystal clear that there's no reasoning with a zealot. And I completely understand how those owners chose to side with their employees who are in violation of their contracts over the fans and sponsors who pay the bills, that makes outstanding financial sense. Nothing says "I'm all about the bottom line" like NOT standing by idly and choosing the harder path. I'll go back to being tolerant and you can go back to watching Fox news and liking tweets from Trump and all his forethought about the things he says.

[fanfootballtn 33]

Alejandro Vulvanueva is a selfish bum and should be released from the team. If I were the captain of the team, I would tell the players not to speak to her in the locker room or at practice. She is a disrespectful fame wh@ring punk who shouldn't be allowed to wear the Steeler Nation jersey. She is a COWARD for not supporting the team!!!!

[ChinaCat 21]

 

So, I'd love to say I understand your innumerable points, but they ring only of narrowness and division. You have made it crystal clear that there's no reasoning with a zealot. And I completely understand how those owners chose to side with their employees who are in violation of their contracts over the fans and sponsors who pay the bills, that makes outstanding financial sense. Nothing says "I'm all about the bottom line" like NOT standing by idly and choosing the harder path. I'll go back to being tolerant and you can go back to watching Fox news and liking tweets from Trump and all his forethought about the things he says.

In 3 weeks the owners will put out a dictate that players must stand for the anthem. What will you say then?

 

And they will do that because of fan revolt. And because Trump, being the great leader he is, laid down the gauntlet.

[ChinaCat 21]

If I were the captain of the team,

If you were the "captain of the team" it would be the Lingerie Bowl.

[Antiramie 50]

In 3 weeks the owners will put out a dictate that players must stand for the anthem. What will you say then?

 

And they will do that because of fan revolt. And because Trump, being the great leader he is, laid down the gauntlet.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

 

*gasp*

 

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[ChinaCat 21]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

 

*gasp*

 

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/polls-hillary-clinton-win_us_5821074ce4b0e80b02cc2a94

 

 

You lose again. Get used to it.

 

 

I can't stop looking at this. It's like looking at Heidi Klum laying naked in my bed. Just makes me have a big smile.

 

http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/2016/forecast/president

[Antiramie 50]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/polls-hillary-clinton-win_us_5821074ce4b0e80b02cc2a94

 

 

You lose again. Get used to it.

 

 

I can't stop looking at this. It's like looking at Heidi Klum laying naked in my bed. Just makes me have a big smile.

 

http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/2016/forecast/president

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[jgcrawfish 232]

In 3 weeks the owners will put out a dictate that players must stand for the anthem. What will you say then?

 

And they will do that because of fan revolt. And because Trump, being the great leader he is, laid down the gauntlet.

And I will support their right to do so as owners of the team in the same way I will support the players and their rights not to abide by it, even at the risk of getting fined or even losing their employment. Again, it's not about whether the protests are right or wrong, nor is it about whether supporting them is right or wrong...it's about the right to choose either way.

[ChinaCat 21]

 

 

 

[IMMensaMind 459]

So, I'd love to say I understand your innumerable points, but they ring only of narrowness and division. You have made it crystal clear that there's no reasoning with a zealot.

I hear you. They don't bother even to respond to points.

 

And I completely understand how those owners chose to side with their employees who are in violation of their contracts over the fans and sponsors who pay the bills, that makes outstanding financial sense.

Of course. I said that. Some could have acted out of political belief, but nearly certainly most acted out of self-preservation, just as I said.

 

Nothing says "I'm all about the bottom line" like NOT standing by idly and choosing the harder path.

Whoa. Some posters would call that sentence a double negative. Some posters would be wrong then as well.

 

I'll go back to being tolerant and you can go back to watching Fox news and liking tweets from Trump and all his forethought about the things he says.

 

Irony. Tolerant guy claims to be tolerant while not having much at all to say about arguments presented, just that a zealot offered them. Sounds tolerant!

[jgcrawfish 232]

The rules are found on pages A62-63 of the leagues game operations manual:

The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem.

During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses.

The statement above may or may not be true:

 

http://www.snopes.com/must-nfl-players-stand/

 

I suspect if it were that owners would have used it against the players previously, so I remain doubtful

 

There you go, jgcrawfish. Aren't you glad you learned something?

 

I AM glad I learned something. I learned that narrow-mindedness is pervasive regardless of perceived intelligence. I learned that while quite well spoken (well typed?) with a dexterous vocabulary your grasp of the concept of freedom is lacking. I also learned that the First Amendment gives not only you and I, but also all those ungrateful NFL players the right to both voice their opinion but also the right to assemble (or in this case, not assemble) however they wish so long as it is in a peaceful manner. And finally, I learned that the Second Amendment sets the right, nay, the duty, to overthrow said destructive government to rid themselves of the "abuses and usurpations" of it. I learn lots of stuff...unlike you I don't taint the intentions of it with my opinion of right and wrong.

 

[ChinaCat 21]

 

 

 

I also learned that the First Amendment gives not only you and I, but also all those ungrateful NFL players the right to both voice their opinion but also the right to assemble (or in this case, not assemble) however they wish so long as it is in a peaceful manner.

 

 

Not at work it doesn't.

[TBayXXXVII 2,104]

And I will support their right to do so as owners of the team in the same way I will support the players and their rights not to abide by it, even at the risk of getting fined or even losing their employment. Again, it's not about whether the protests are right or wrong, nor is it about whether supporting them is right or wrong...it's about the right to choose either way.

 

I agree. I'll be curious to see how they respond. Players have notoriously caved when money was an issue. Personally, while I don't agree with their mode of protest, I'll be disappointed if $10k or $15k is a line they won't cross for their protest.

[TBayXXXVII 2,104]

Not at work it doesn't.

 

Why do people still not understand this?

[jgcrawfish 232]

 

This is an unfortunate ripple effect of a sports team wading into the political arena in the same way that a politician shouldn't have waded into the sports world.

[jgcrawfish 232]

Not at work it doesn't.

If it's not prohibited by your employer, then how is it wrong? And if the boss and the owner of the company not only support your right to do so, but STAND with you while you do it...again, how is it wrong?

[TBayXXXVII 2,104]

If it's not prohibited by your employer, then how is it wrong? And if the boss and the owner of the company not only support your right to do so, but STAND with you while you do it...again, how is it wrong?

 

So you're ONLY referencing this past weekend with this statement?

[Antiramie 50]

 

So you're ONLY referencing this past weekend with this statement?

 

No this whole time we've actually been talking about this AND when Doug at the Dairy Queen in Gary, IN made all his yogurt swirls backwards in protest of the killing of Harambe.

[Jesus Chrysler 29]

If it's not prohibited by your employer, then how is it wrong? And if the boss and the owner of the company not only support your right to do so, but STAND with you while you do it...again, how is it wrong?

That's the root of the problem amongst the Trump-ettes. The owners DON'T care and Trump's sheep desperately want them to be angry about it because they are. So they want to boycott to try to put financial pressure on them so that they pretend they do. Please join our racist cause or we will financially pressure you until you do.

[IMMensaMind 459]

The statement above may or may not be true:

 

http://www.snopes.com/must-nfl-players-stand/

 

I suspect if it were that owners would have used it against the players previously, so I remain doubtful

 

 

 

I AM glad I learned something. I learned that narrow-mindedness is pervasive regardless of perceived intelligence.

Gosh. I just taught you something, and you're firing back at me...and I'm the narrow-minded one?

 

I learned that while quite well spoken (well typed?) with a dexterous vocabulary your grasp of the concept of freedom is lacking.

No, you haven't demonstrated that at all. Perhaps it is because I refuse to accept your notion of what freedom is. Freedom isn't "the ability to do anything you want without repercussion".

 

I also learned that the First Amendment gives not only you and I, but also all those ungrateful NFL players the right to both voice their opinion but also the right to assemble (or in this case, not assemble) however they wish so long as it is in a peaceful manner.

You just learned that? Perhaps it is your decision to call me "narrow-minded" that is really the problem. Your inability to teach me something doesn't mean that I'm narrow-minded. It means that you don't understand this topic as well as I do.

 

I have no doubt at all that you can teach me stuff. In fact, I learn stuff from your fantasy football posts all the time. You're just not teaching me anything on this topic. What I hope is that I'm teaching you. But that I'm detecting instead is that the pride of butt-hurt is getting in the way instead.

 

Don't let it.

 

BTW: your "however they wish" has a qualifier. These players cannot do "however they wish" in one sense. The Constitution grants them only the freedom to express themselves from the consequences of law, and legal punishment.

 

It does not grant them cover from the consequences of the employer, nor from harsh criticism of others. Whether the employers choose to enforce the terms of their contracts is also a freedom they have, and we're free to attempt to influence that decision with our own voice.

 

This discussion regards what decisions should be made; whose positions are most defensible; what is most wise and best for Americans.

 

And finally, I learned that the Second Amendment sets the right, nay, the duty, to overthrow said destructive government to rid themselves of the "abuses and usurpations" of it.

Wut?

 

I learn lots of stuff...unlike you I don't taint the intentions of it with my opinion of right and wrong.

I'm baffled why you think that it isn't necessary to apply your own moral standards to your decisions on not only this matter, but any matter.

 

You do know what a moral relativist is, don't you? They're the ones who cannot figure out what right and wrong really is, and often they simply dismiss the concept altogether. Moral relativists are ignorant to how vulnerable that makes them. Using their own mores, they could be killed in the street, and unable to cry out that their death was in any way a 'wrong'.

 

Ok.

[IMMensaMind 459]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

*gasp*

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

You're acting like a loon.

[IMMensaMind 459]

Alejandro Vulvanueva is a selfish bum and should be released from the team. If I were the captain of the team, I would tell the players not to speak to her in the locker room or at practice. She is a disrespectful fame wh@ring punk who shouldn't be allowed to wear the Steeler Nation jersey. She is a COWARD for not supporting the team!!!!

Hey antiramie? Crawfish? BTL? Etc?

 

This is your side. This is your guy. The one who thinks that what one does with their football team is more important than what one does as a citizen of a country.

 

This is a guy who is attacking a decorated Army Ranger - with a Bronze Star - for standing at attention during the National Anthem.

 

This is your guy.