Attention Deficit Disorder

[Voltaire 4,556]

So basically he's a kid. Don't put him on pills.

 

 

don't open a can of worms that will never close.

This is what my friends over here say, they think it's natural especially for boys to be this way. It's also why I've not pursued the situation to this point. None of us are on any meds long term. If we get a headache or an upset stomach we take meds but then when the symptoms go away, we stop. Plus if the pills were imported they'd be unaffordable, locally we could handle things.

 

 

 

I'm no expert...but...I think your wife's approach is wrong. Well, ask her, how is working out? Is she expecting a different result when her attempts don't change?

 

I'm against medicating kids...but I'm also against kids failing because of an actual issue beyond their control. I am good at understanding that there are things in life I don't understand. This issue could be one of them.

 

Adults can often compensate or adapt to dealing with ADD/ADHD. Kids can't.

I coach youth sports, so I have a handful of parents that come up to me and say "Hey...if little Johnny is acting differently....here's why...." So often, later, I ask them how its working out...and almost all said everyone's world has changed. The kids, the parents (no longer arguing about homework,etc), the teachers...

 

I'd look into it. The yelling and fighting over homework isn't worth it. (I see kids yelled at in sports by parents...and its just not a good thing when kids are yelled at by parents when the action by kid can't be controlled by the kid. Leaves the kid wondering "what did I do wrong")

He won't have to be on it forever. At some point, he will be able to adapt and compensate.

 

I'm a hard ass (conservative) and don't believe in cutting slack to those not trying. I'm against anything politically correct, and I'm sure I come across as a heartless right wing ass on here at times.

That being said, I understand that people are different. And telling a kid to "snap out of it" or "do better!" isn't always the answer.

 

It's like the electronic thing that doesn't work. Shaking it or yelling at it won't work. It might have to have some wiring modified to make it work. People's wiring is sometimes off, and that medication can be the same as taking that electronic gadget apart and uncrossing the two wires that are causing the problem.

 

I worry about addiction and side effects. China pirates the hell out of everything, including pills, I'm not sure I want to trust FDA approved pills let alone Chinese knockoff ones. Imported pills would likely be unaffordable anyway.

 

Like ed said, once we open the can of worms, he may always want that. He's able to struggle through at the cost of the better part of most evenings. I wish I could help him with the homework rather than my short-fused wife but it's all in Chinese. It's one of the factors weighing on me if I want to stay over here and put him through the Chinese educational system buzzsaw for grades 7-12. (He's in 3rd grade now, sister in 4th).

 

He's also learning the material. He knows how to do his homework, or can readily pick it up if he doesn't. He hasn't fallen behind. Not learning material snowballs if left unchecked but we've not had that worry. The chronic forgetfullness is more an annoyance than anything else.

 

I'm inclined to just continue to let him struggle with it drug free and hopefully find his own way out.

 

Thanks for the reply.

[Voltaire 4,556]

You have created a situation the hurts the entire family and makes homework time, a time of extreme discomfort for everyone. I know because I was and am guilty of the same. Not worth it. You aren't failing your kid if you aren't pushing him to succeed.

The homework is in Chinese which limits and curtails what I can help him with and my wife's lack of patience drives me (and exponentially worse him) crazy.

[5-Points 2,726]

[tubby_mcgee 686]

I'm inclined to just continue to let him struggle with it drug free and hopefully find his own way out.

 

 

 

Yes..that should always always always be the first option, IMO. Obviously no one should want to change a kids natural behavior with medication.

 

When I see parents get mad at their 5,6, 7...10 etc year old in sports....I'll tell them...."That's what [7] year olds do-- act like 7 year olds, so don't sweat it"

I don't know how long you've dealt with it or how much it is actually affecting your family life or his school life or his grades....If its been 4 years and he gets all F's and he hates his mom and dad for pushing him come time to do homework....(obviously it's not like that...just making a point), then something beyond the norm might need to be done.

[listen2me 23 1,541]

 

 

I usually agree 100% with 12th man.

I think only in extreme situations like Beernuts said.

 

I'm against it...buuuuut.... I will throw this argument out there....(since some of you mentioned NOT medicating, simply because they are kids)

 

So...since they are kids, we should just let them deal with the problem on their own?

 

If they have diabetes or strep throat, etc, pills are okay?

 

Some of you that would give pills to someone who had strep throat or a sinus infection...there are people that would say "How dare you! The kids/person's body will eventually take care of it on its own, so let them be and quit pushing drugs into them"

 

So they are another level up from you, as far as the "How dare you give meds to kids" You will argue that its okay. So, you are in the middle. You are like "This pill for this illness, is okay, that pill for that illness isn't okay.

 

But who are you (I mean any of us) to really know what the best answer is ? You don't nor do I. Not with the case of strep, sinus, diabetes or with ADD

 

Keep in mind, I don't have a kid, or relative or anyone close to me that is taking anything for anything we are talking about here. I don't even know anyone taking anything for diabetes.

 

Like I said, I understand that I don't understand every working part of the human body--not physically, or psychologically. So since I understand that I don't understand....it only makes sense to say I don't understand the solutions that are out there either.

Pills for common illness doesnt fock with you brain or personality. There is a difference to me.

 

Strep throat is obvious. Measering the level of attention your kid has seems a bit harder to diagnose. We have crappy parents who basically create behaviors then want to pill them up because they are hard to handle.

 

I'm sure you are seeing the difference here.

[Cloaca du jour 2,064]

I was hoping this topic would come up.

 

Every day my son sits at the table to do homework. But instead of actually doing his homework, he's always finding ways to distract himself. He plays with his pencil, gets up to go to the bathroom, watches whatever his sister is watching on TV, goes to get some food, he'll be sitting there with 45 minutes of homework and it takes him three hours.

 

Plus he forgets things all the time. His jacket, his bus card, his kiddie phone, his schoolbag. He's forever making trips back to school to look for stuff and he's frequently unsuccessful.

 

My wife's approach is to scream, berate, and insult him. A lot of screaming and shouting and crying at homework time.

 

So I was thinking he probably has ADHD and I've been wondering if some drug would work or not or how the situation is handled in the US.

Sounds like a normal kid to me.

 

Mybe mom should go shopping during homework time.

[jerryskids 5,191]

Not sure I have that, but I'm guessing I have something similar... I blank out and forget short term stuff, like literally within minutes of absorbing it... Oddly enuff, my long term memory is great.

 

I know for sure I'm OCD and I know for sure I don't manage my time well. I'm like a cat, but something shiny or blinking in front of me - I'm toast.

 

I'm eerily like this including somewhere on the OCD spectrum. My wife is concerned I'm getting Alzheimer's, but I've assured her that my brain just doesn't give a fock.

[edjr 5,556]

Not sure I have that, but I'm guessing I have something similar... I blank out and forget short term stuff, like literally within minutes of absorbing it..

 

[penultimatestraw 473]

I am swamped at work today and will be unable to link the many studies, but for example the article quotes a university of Quebec study and it found that kids on ADHD meds do worse and we're more likely to drop out of school.

 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/283841/

I don't prescribe Adderal, and think cognitive behavioral therapy should be attempted before any meds are considered. But there is data suggesting medications help adults with ADHD: https://academic.oup.com/ijnp/article/12/8/1137/678331

The current database of controlled trials for adult ADHD is relatively small, and does not include data for many of the potentially important agents. In addition, effect-size estimates for different classes of medications (i.e. stimulant and non-stimulant medications) were based on separate studies; head-to-head comparisons of various agents are severely lacking. Nonetheless, results of this meta-analysis across all ADHD medications in adult subjects demonstrated statistically significant and clinically robust improvement in symptom severity compared to placebo treatment.

[penultimatestraw 473]

Thinking of telling my doc that I have it and need a marijane prescription.

Good luck with that.

[Mookz 1,287]

Sorry, what now?

[Hardcore troubadour 12,625]

Good luck with that.

Aren't you for the legalization of drugs?

[penultimatestraw 473]

Pills for common illness doesnt fock with you brain or personality. There is a difference to me.

 

Strep throat is obvious. Measering the level of attention your kid has seems a bit harder to diagnose. We have crappy parents who basically create behaviors then want to pill them up because they are hard to handle.

 

I'm sure you are seeing the difference here.

There is certainly a difference, but how do you suggest managing diseases which impact your brain? Psychotherapy/counseling only can do so much.

 

And though you think its obvious, you probably don't know the most important reasons we give antibiotics for strep throat.

[penultimatestraw 473]

Aren't you for the legalization of drugs?

Yes. But I'm not in favor of morons soliciting me to enable their addiction.

[penultimatestraw 473]

Mybe mom should go shopping during homework time.

Trading one problem for another.

[penultimatestraw 473]

Sorry, what now?

I wish I had ADHD to distract me from the number of times that joke's been attempted in this thread

[Cloaca du jour 2,064]

Trading one problem for another.

Politely saying... get her out of the house...

[MTSkiBum 1,594]

I don't prescribe Adderal, and think cognitive behavioral therapy should be attempted before any meds are considered. But there is data suggesting medications help adults with ADHD: https://academic.oup.com/ijnp/article/12/8/1137/678331

 

 

From your link:

 

 

 

We used the search engines PubMed and Medline to identify relevant clinical trials. Short-term studies with double-blind parallel-group design were selected for the analysis.

 

There is not a single long term study that shows the benefits, using drugs to treat ADHD long term at best is neutral and at worst causes cognitive impairment. Not counting the effects that a lifetime of amphetamines would have on the heart and arteries.

[penultimatestraw 473]

Politely saying... get her out of the house...

I know. But he's better off addressing it more directly.

[penultimatestraw 473]

 

 

From your link:

 

 

 

 

There is not a single long term study that shows the benefits, using drugs to treat ADHD long term at best is neutral and at worst causes cognitive impairment. Not counting the effects that a lifetime of amphetamines would have on the heart and arteries.

Depends what you consider long term, but the studies exist: http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1087054714559643

 

ETA I don't think most psychiatrists advocate lifetime use of ADHD meds.

[MTSkiBum 1,594]

Depends what you consider long term, but the studies exist: http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1087054714559643

 

ETA I don't think most psychiatrists advocate lifetime use of ADHD meds.

That study is 12 weeks?

 

That is 1/3 of a school year. I do not consider that long term and neither should any parent. That study is mislabeled.

 

 

I think most people would hope that any treatment for ADHD would be beneficial for at least a few years. Not a few months. I think the drug industry is misleading consumers as it relates to ADHD medication.

[penultimatestraw 473]

That study is 12 weeks?

 

That is 1/3 of a school year. I do not consider that long term and neither should any parent. That study is mislabeled.

 

 

I think most people would hope that any treatment for ADHD would be beneficial for at least a few years. Not a few months. I think the drug industry is misleading consumers as it relates to ADHD medication.

You are certainly entitled to that opinion, but it doesn't change what medical science considers acute versus chronic therapy. While I can't look at all of the text of the article I linked, it includes seven studies lasting 12 weeks or more.

[tanatastic 2,061]

Yes. But I'm not in favor of morons soliciting me to enable their addiction.

Lol addiction. Weed isnt addictive and every doctor knows this, another medical oops for the case file. Its getting thick.

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

I wish I had ADHD to distract me from the number of times that joke's been attempted in this thread

This

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

Lol addiction. Weed isnt addictive and every doctor knows this, another medical oops for the case file. Its getting thick.

It isn't? Maybe not for everyone, but to some it is.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,625]

Yes. But I'm not in favor of morons soliciting me to enable their addiction.

So you would be ok with all the psych meds being readily available to whoever wants them?

[tanatastic 2,061]

So you would be ok with all the psych meds being readily available to whoever wants them?

No silly, he just thinks heroine, crack, meth and coke should be decriminalized. Lol

 

Although here he said yes to,you when you said legalized which is different from decriminalized. I cant tell wether he thinks a crack dealer should be allowed to peddle near a middle school or ifmhe just thinks that dealer should,be punished less severely. Tough to tell. Both are things no medical practitioner would even consider.

[Mookz 1,287]

I wish I had ADHD to distract me from the number of times that joke's been attempted in this thread

 

Thread?

 

This

 

It's obligatory.

[listen2me 23 1,541]

There is certainly a difference, but how do you suggest managing diseases which impact your brain? Psychotherapy/counseling only can do so much.

 

And though you think its obvious, you probably don't know the most important reasons we give antibiotics for strep throat.

Im not discounting certain instances.

 

Im discounting the fact that this med seems to be more and more popular as years go on. Why? Because some parents are crappy parents. Or because a lot of parents look for a quick fix. Oh Susan's kid takes Aderall and ahe says it helps. Maybe Timmy needs it! Im sure there are plenty of doctors out there that dont push adderall or are quick to prescribe it. But many are. Which is lazy. There is no where near the number on it that NEED it.

 

Oh then when 10mgs doesnt seem to be working for little Timmy anymore we just say heres 20. Because it is that easy.

[listen2me 23 1,541]

Depends what you consider long term, but the studies exist: http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1087054714559643

 

ETA I don't think most psychiatrists advocate lifetime use of ADHD meds.

Oh they just give perscriptions for life tho.

 

Sure Docs may not say here Timmy take this you will need it forever. But they will prescribe it forever.

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

Sometimes I literally forget to breath. It's really bad with seemingly easy shlt. I get so distracted that my leg sometimes gives out when I am walking, without a physical reason. It really sucks.

[kutulu 1,545]

Adderall is a hell of a drug

[jerryskids 5,191]

Lol addiction. Weed isnt addictive and every doctor knows this, another medical oops for the case file. Its getting thick.

 

I can't believe penny has to wade through crap like this, challenging that he is actually a doctor. If anything he is too much of a doctor/scientist and not enough of an engineer.

[tanatastic 2,061]

I can't believe penny has to wade through crap like this, challenging that he is actually a doctor. If anything he is too much of a doctor/scientist and not enough of an engineer.

Its only me doing it and only every so often when red flags pop up (which is almost every time he talks about medicine). So its less of a wade and more of a nuisance that pops up here and there sporadically.

[penultimatestraw 473]

Lol addiction. Weed isnt addictive and every doctor knows this, another medical oops for the case file. Its getting thick.

I guess you're excluding the docs at NIDA? https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/marijuana/marijuana-addictive

 

And for focks sake, my post had nothing to do with the addictive potential of MJ - substitute the word habit if you prefer.

[penultimatestraw 473]

Oh they just give perscriptions for life tho.

 

Sure Docs may not say here Timmy take this you will need it forever. But they will prescribe it forever.

This is patently false.

[penultimatestraw 473]

No silly, he just thinks heroine, crack, meth and coke should be decriminalized. Lol

 

Although here he said yes to,you when you said legalized which is different from decriminalized. I cant tell wether he thinks a crack dealer should be allowed to peddle near a middle school or ifmhe just thinks that dealer should,be punished less severely. Tough to tell. Both are things no medical practitioner would even consider.

Cripes, you're really into mincing words today. I favor drug decriminalization.

[penultimatestraw 473]

 

I can't believe penny has to wade through crap like this, challenging that he is actually a doctor. If anything he is too much of a doctor/scientist and not enough of an engineer.

Doesn't bother me. It's pretty entertaining how Tan thinks he's figured out all sorts of things which he really knows little about.

 

I have no idea what your second sentence means - I'm extremely analytical and evidenced based in my work, more like an engineer than a lot of docs who practice the "art" of medicine.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,625]

Cripes, you're really into mincing words today. I favor drug decriminalization.

So you think people should be able to purchase and use any drugs they want? Is that right?

[Hardcore troubadour 12,625]

Doesn't bother me. It's pretty entertaining how Tan thinks he's figured out all sorts of things which he really knows little about.

 

I have no idea what your second sentence means - I'm extremely analytical and evidenced based in my work, more like an engineer than a lot of docs who practice the "art" of medicine.

Wooosh. The whole point here is that Jerry is an engineer. Try and keep up.