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#1 Mike FF Today

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 02:43 PM

:shocking: 

 

Per Schefter... Texans trade QB Brock Osweiler AND a 2018 second-round pick to Cleveland for the Browns to take Osweiler’s $16M salary of Houston’s books, per league sources. The move clears out millions in salary-cap space for Houston to intensify efforts to sign former Cowboys quarterback Tony Romo, per sources.

 

 


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#2 Marshall

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 02:43 PM

Adam SchefterVerified account @AdamSchefter

 

Stunner: Texans trade Brock Osweiler AND 2018 2nd-rd pick to CLEV for Browns to take Osweiler contract off Houston books, sources tell ESPN.

 

 

https://twitter.com/...937960103530499


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#3 Marshall

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 02:47 PM

:shocking:

 

Per Schefter... Texans trade QB Brock Osweiler AND a 2018 second-round pick to Cleveland for the Browns to take Osweiler’s $16M salary of Houston’s books, per league sources. The move clears out millions in salary-cap space for Houston to intensify efforts to sign former Cowboys quarterback Tony Romo, per sources.

 

 

 

It's a total shocker.  Who knew that the Browns would be so...Browns. Dayum!

 

(Can you please delete my duplicate thread on the subject? I think you beat me to the finish line by a nose. : )

 

 

EDIT: Or, this will do. Thanks, Mike - for being so fast!


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#4 weepaws

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 02:51 PM

Oh my soul, they just keep on being the Browns.

It's unbelievable that they keep deceiving their fans.

#5 dcgangstas

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 02:52 PM

:shocking:  :shocking:  :shocking:

 

When I first saw this, I thought it was a joke.    

 

This move is SO Browns..... 



#6 Mike FF Today

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 02:56 PM

You don't normally seem salary dumps of this magnitude but reportedly the Browns acquired Osweiler, a 2018 second-round pick and a 2017 sixth-round pick from the Texans. Houston received a 2017 fourth-round pick.


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#7 Marshall

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 03:23 PM

Didn't the Browns also have the highest cap space at almost a 110 million before the cap raise, though? They were undoubtedly the only team that could remotely withstand such a hit.


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#8 lesjroza

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 03:24 PM

:shocking:  :shocking:  :shocking:

 

When I first saw this, I thought it was a joke.    

 

This move is SO Browns..... 

 

 

Good move for the Browns...........salary cap FF has been onto these types of moves for a long time, true win-win.

 

I think NFL GMs are finally catching up to what makes sense in the salary cap era. 



#9 Mike FF Today

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 03:33 PM

Sounds like the Browns may turn around and cut Osweiler... or trade him if they can find a partner. This is good stuff!


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#10 thePRO

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 03:57 PM

WTH is everyone talking about? Browns actually made a really great move here. I think they have 3 2nd round picks next season now. They are also trying to trade him for an additional pick this year lol.

 

They got a 2nd round pick to take Brock, haha.

 

Also, Romo is going to Houston. Think this move also helps cement this idea.


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#11 weepaws

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 04:02 PM

Texans are the winners.

The Browns might have extra draft picks, but what will they do with them.

I can't wait to see if they indeed do trade him, who the team is on the other end.

#12 Fumbleweed

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 04:04 PM

:shocking:  :shocking:  :shocking:

 

When I first saw this, I thought it was a joke.    

 

This move is SO Browns..... 

 

dc...when did you start posting again? You were always one of my absolute favorite posters on this board. Welcome back! 


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#13 giraldi02

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 05:21 PM

There's zero question the Browns made an exceptional move here. Maybe one of the best trades I've seen in the NFL in quite some time. 

They took full advantage of having an enormous amount of salary cap and bought a 2nd rounder. I have to think that the NFLPA/owners are going to take a long hard look at this though. I thought there was a rule on the books that prohibited this type of practice in the NFL. 


WPIAFP

 


#14 Ray_T

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 08:15 PM

Sounds like the Browns may turn around and cut Osweiler... or trade him if they can find a partner. This is good stuff!

That's what I heard as well, but if they are paying a guaranteed salary I'd say why not give him a chance to win the starting job against whoever they bring in?  They've got nothing to lose really.

 

Since they are already paying him, why not see if he can solve their problem.   They can draft their QB of the future and sit him on the bench for a year while Osweiler proves himself to be a legit QB or a bust.


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#15 The Football Guru

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 08:16 PM

Good move for both sides.

 

Just throwing this out there: With three first first-rounders and five seconds in tow over the next two drafts, can't Cleveland try to wrestle away a veteran quarterback on a long-term deal? (It is ridiculous someone as relatively unproven as Jimmy G is now supposedly worth a first and a second.)

 

The Browns are actually nearing a point where they could offer a Herschel Walker-level number of picks if they wanted and still have some selections left over.



#16 Ray_T

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 08:35 PM

Good move for both sides.

 

Just throwing this out there: With three first first-rounders and five seconds in tow over the next two drafts, can't Cleveland try to wrestle away a veteran quarterback on a long-term deal? (It is ridiculous someone as relatively unproven as Jimmy G is now supposedly worth a first and a second.)

 

The Browns are actually nearing a point where they could offer a Herschel Walker-level number of picks if they wanted and still have some selections left over.

I agree.  Quite astute actually. 

 

There is no hope that the browns will use up all their cap space, and if it turns out they needed some salary to meet the NFL salary floor.  This fulfills that requirement.

 

essentially they are paying cash for a draft pick.

 

and a 2nd round pick is a pretty good haul if you ask me.   I'm truly surprised Houston paid a price that steep.

 

I had heard a rumour that Chicago had interest in Osweiler.  Maybe now they trade Oz to chicago for the rights to Cutler (who has a lot less guaranteed money)

 

They may have to eat some of the salary, but if Chicago is truly interested in Osweiler, this deal makes some sense for both sides.


3 keeper, 12 team league Standard scoring with QB getting -1 pt for an interception & fumbles 5 points for a defensive safety & 6 points for a defensive TD.

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#17 polecatt

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 09:33 PM

Not a bad move for the Browns. I know they may release him but Osweiler is their best QB at the moment.

The Texans are clearly in the middle of making some changes. Dropping that big salary is important for them.

Helpful for both teams I guess.



#18 Frozenbeernuts

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 09:37 PM

Someone who is of the caliber of players like Osweiler or Cutler, guys who we know for sure who they are, I want no part of them. I will start unknowns over then UNLESS I am very close and they are my only option. The Browns are not in that situation so they shouldn't bother wasting their time on someone who could screw up the best teams chances of winning.

#19 Mike FF Today

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 10:57 PM

Good move for both sides.

 

Just throwing this out there: With three first first-rounders and five seconds in tow over the next two drafts, can't Cleveland try to wrestle away a veteran quarterback on a long-term deal? (It is ridiculous someone as relatively unproven as Jimmy G is now supposedly worth a first and a second.)

 

The Browns are actually nearing a point where they could offer a Herschel Walker-level number of picks if they wanted and still have some selections left over.

 

The question is who? What teams would be willing to let go of a decent veteran QB in return for a couple or three high round draft picks over the next two years? ... If I were there owners of these teams, I would consider some kind of mega draft pick deal from the Browns and give up my QB....

 

Ravens & Flacco (32)
​Panthers & Newton (27)
​Bengals & Dalton (29)
Lions & Stafford (29)
​Jaguars & Bortles (25)
​Chiefs & Alex Smith (32)
​Chargers & Philip Rivers (35)
Redskins & Cousins (28)

 

I doubt the Browns would want most of the older guys on that list but out of the group above I think Redskins and Cousins makes the most sense. Cousins doesn't want to be there and he's young enough the Browns would feel like they are getting some prime years in the deal. Would 2 firsts and 2 second's get it done?


Edited by Mike FF Today, 09 March 2017 - 11:01 PM.
included ages of QBs

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#20 Ray_T

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 11:57 PM

 

The question is who? What teams would be willing to let go of a decent veteran QB in return for a couple or three high round draft picks over the next two years? ... If I were there owners of these teams, I would consider some kind of mega draft pick deal from the Browns and give up my QB....

 

Ravens & Flacco (32)
​Panthers & Newton (27)
​Bengals & Dalton (29)
Lions & Stafford (29)
​Jaguars & Bortles (25)
​Chiefs & Alex Smith (32)
​Chargers & Philip Rivers (35)
Redskins & Cousins (28)

 

I doubt the Browns would want most of the older guys on that list but out of the group above I think Redskins and Cousins makes the most sense. Cousins doesn't want to be there and he's young enough the Browns would feel like they are getting some prime years in the deal. Would 2 firsts and 2 second's get it done?

I could see the Ravens doing it with Flacco.

Maybe the Lions with Stafford.

Tough to say how realistic the jags one is.... sometimes I think they still love him, sometimes I think the love affair with Bortles is over.

I could see the Chiefs parting ways with Alex Smith, but not until they have a replacement ready(that just seems to be Andy Reids way).

Cousins is also possible if things sour a bit further in Washington.

 

I dont see Rivers going anywhere unless he wants out of LA.

I dont think Newton will go anywhere either.

Ditto for Dalton

 

Just my opinion.

 

and to boot, of the teams that may be willing to sell, I'm betting Cleveland may not have interest in buying.

 

Cousins may be the most likely guy they could put together a deal for. 

 

and if things fall apart in Washington, I could definitely see this happening.


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#21 ralphster

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 04:33 AM

Great move for the Browns. Straight money ball type of move. Of the QBs listed above I agree Cousins makes the most sense, and I think the Skins pit SF versus CLE next offseason.
“When I played pro football, I never set out to hurt anyone deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something” ~ D. Butkus

#22 Frozenbeernuts

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 06:11 AM

Man if I were the Browns I would rather just use two of my first three picks in this year's draft to take a qb than trade anything for the qbs listed. Cousins would be fine. I like Dalton too. Everyone else on that list I wouldn't even give 1 first rounder for. Newton included, and that's because he didn't give it his all last year. His attitude is not what a team needs.

1.01 - Mitch Trubisky
2.01 - Patrick Mahommes

Hope they both gain value as time goes on and then trade one off.

#23 TBayXXXVII

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 09:34 AM



You don't normally seem salary dumps of this magnitude but reportedly the Browns acquired Osweiler, a 2018 second-round pick and a 2017 sixth-round pick from the Texans. Houston received a 2017 fourth-round pick.

 

If I were Cleveland, I wouldn't have settled for anything less than a 1st.  They paid $16M to move up from the 4th round to the 2nd.  That's too much money for that jump in my opinion.  Especially since it's a 2018 pick.  Going by last year where the Texans won 9 games, their division, and a playoff game with a turd like Osweiler, [the Browns should assume], the Titans will be even better next year resulting in an even later pick in the draft.  If I were the Browns, I'd have traded my 6th for Osweiler, their 4th this year and their 1st next year... and nothing less.



#24 Maulers1973

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 10:48 AM

As a Browns homer, I don't love this trade.  I may once we see the end result.  However, I think it was quite a lot of money and a 4th this year for a 2nd rounder next year.   Steep price if you ask me.  I like the creativity of it.  I kind of like that it gives them a ton of ammo to go get a veteran QB.  However, overall I don't love it.  I just kind of like it.

 

What I do really love is that they have used free agency to solidify their offensive line.  They got Tretter to play center and can plug in a pro bowl caliber guard in Zietler on the right side, plus they extended Bitonio.  GREAT MOVES!!  Now they don't have to address that area in the draft.  They can select some talented young playmakers like Garrett and Foster to rebuild that atrocious defense!    



#25 dcgangstas

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 11:33 AM

 

dc...when did you start posting again? You were always one of my absolute favorite posters on this board. Welcome back! 

Hello Fumble!!   :doublethumbsup:

 

I'm still around and post here and there.   I plan on being more active again.   

 

This is still my favorite board.   



#26 weepaws

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 11:42 AM

Now that's so true, the Browns did upgrade their Oline, and they where really good pickups.

And hurt one of their divison rivals at the same time.

#27 Quickolas1

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 12:21 PM

They paid $16M to move up from the 4th round to the 2nd.

 

Nope. If they trade him (many teams need backups), they'll agree to some split of the $16 mil with the other team.

If they cut him, they'll pay the difference between what another team signs him for and the $16 mil.

So if someone else pays him for say $4 mil/year, Cle's cash hit will be $12 million. It's called offset language.

 

It helps strengthen your argument if you have correct information. Otherwise it's like posting and saying nothing meaningful like Weepaws.

 

"All teachers are lazy."

"They just keep on being the Browns."

etc.



#28 cmh6476

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 12:30 PM

fwiw, chiefs have already said Alex Smith is the guy heading into next year :dunno:


#Royals


#29 TBayXXXVII

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 12:56 PM

 

Nope. If they trade him (many teams need backups), they'll agree to some split of the $16 mil with the other team.

If they cut him, they'll pay the difference between what another team signs him for and the $16 mil.

So if someone else pays him for say $4 mil/year, Cle's cash hit will be $12 million. It's called offset language.

 

It helps strengthen your argument if you have correct information. Otherwise it's like posting and saying nothing meaningful like Weepaws.

 

"All teachers are lazy."

"They just keep on being the Browns."

etc.

 

Here's the thing... they don't know what the interest is nor what it'll be.  They're making an expensive gamble.  Even if they end up paying $12M, that's still too much.



#30 Ray_T

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 01:19 PM

 

Here's the thing... they don't know what the interest is nor what it'll be.  They're making an expensive gamble.  Even if they end up paying $12M, that's still too much.

Well, at this point he's the best QB on the roster now.  Maybe they keep him for a year. 

 

I'm sure they'd like someone better, but until that happens, I think you go on the assumption he will play for the Browns.

 

Maybe a Garoppolo deal happens maybe it doesnt. 

 

There is still no guarantee the browns will be able to get someone to sign there, so maybe this is also the insurance policy.   Cuz if they have to draft a QB, that QB will likely need to sit a year (or at least a good portion of a year) before he is ready to play.

 

so maybe the move was done to give them this option.

 

One think to keep in mind, Osweiler was mediocre in Denver and they had a poor O line.

 

In Houston, the line was supposed to be better but I really dont think it was much better.  The line wasnt that good.

 

perhaps behind a good line, Osweiler plays better.

 

I wouldnt bet the farm on this, but I think there is an outside chance that this happens.


3 keeper, 12 team league Standard scoring with QB getting -1 pt for an interception & fumbles 5 points for a defensive safety & 6 points for a defensive TD.

Start 2 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 Kicker, one Def/Sp Tms

 

 

 

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#31 lesjroza

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 02:14 PM

 

Here's the thing... they don't know what the interest is nor what it'll be.  They're making an expensive gamble.  Even if they end up paying $12M, that's still too much.

 

 

Here's the thing. If you think about this deal in terms of analyzing just the pick bump I understand how one comes to the that conclusion, I don't blame you. Even in that case though, I think I could probably show you mathematically how they could come out ahead of the $16 million hit this year by saving that over the course of a below market rookie contract for a 2nd round pick assuming they make a strong choice (see below).

 

There literally could be a book written on this single trade examining its implications in the salary cap era......or at least a novella, lol.

 

I'm not prepared to do that here explaining my own view, nor am I gonna say trust me, it's a good deal for the Browns and expect you to agree.

Let me just give you a few thoughts to chew on yourself so you can take it to the next level with your own thinking.

 

The key to this whole thing is to have a frame of view of how winning in the salary cap era can, and probably should be approached (especially for a team like Clev). Instead of thinking about the one aspect, considering the trade holistically in roster building because make no mistake Clev is a classic rebuild..

 

Trying to stay simplistic, let me just give some quick random thoughts for you to consider;

 

Cleveland has to spend money, no choice, they have to hit their mandate.

 

So.......what else could they have done with the $$ instead?

 

Spend it on an FA?

 

Remember this trade creates a one year cap hit.

 

Could they have spent enough to become serious contenders with their current or post draft roster?  

I think you'll agree it wasn't going to happen for them this year. So they have to think about a window 2-4 yrs down the road realistically.

 

Spend it on a multi-yr deal for a guy, possibly with an upfront load? Actually much riskier allocation of funds IMO, gotta be the right guy to feel good about it and he has to be a guy who fits that window.

 

They actually made a couple of nice signings as was noted with the OL already that helps build the foundation, maybe you see a specific guy or guys you want in that window but I'd counter its hard to know looking a few years out exactly what they need. As it is now with all the picks they own, and its a lot, its possible to probable that its better to take best available in the draft and see what develops then fill later needs with free agency esp when later they have a better chance of competing in FA if things go int he right direction.

 

If they had signed a 1yr Fa like a Alshon instead, or even a multi-yr guy, that player fills a roster slot that could be used on a developing guy.........one of the biggest advantages poor teams have is available roster slots for developing players.

 

I mean these are just a few considerations.

 

Over riding this while thing is in the salary cap era building a multi-year winning roster is all about getting production below market for players on your roster. To highlight what I'm talking about take the extreme example of the Seahawks and Russell Wilson a few years ago. The Seahwaks were able to find their starting QB and pay him 670k for a few years while most other teams were paying QBs 12-15 mil or more. Imagine how that affects your ability to maneuver on the rest of your roster. Now as I say that's an extreme example, but the same applies at every position on a team to lesser degrees. Draft picks are the number one way to roster a player who contributes more than his market value.

 

Incidentally, the other primary way to roster below market value players is signing FA bargains. What kind of chance of doing that do the Browns have at this point in time? FA vets sometimes sign for below market to play with a winner. To go to Cleveland they require a surcharge! Chances are very good any FA signing and potentially even any extension of their own players requires an above market price! There is a realistic chance they are actually falling behind other teams in balance sheet terms when they sign an FA!

 

The only way the Brownies are going to be able to rebuild a stable winning team is through the draft IMO. Making that trade allocated money for a year that in the scheme of things didn't matter. Compared to rostering an FA, if they cut Brock it leaves open a slot for a developing player who can be of help during their window. It actually prevents them from mis-allocating future cap either by mistake or lack of knowledge of the future. And the 2nd round pick is an asset that has a chance to fit the window, bring production below market, or be used in some other way such as part of a trade.

 

There is truly so much more to chew on here but I only want to allocate this amount of time I've used, maybe someone else on the same wavelength can pick up the discussion and add though.



#32 TBayXXXVII

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 02:41 PM

 

 

Here's the thing. If you think about this deal in terms of analyzing just the pick bump I understand how one comes to the that conclusion, I don't blame you. Even in that case though, I think I could probably show you mathematically how they could come out ahead of the $16 million hit this year by saving that over the course of a below market rookie contract for a 2nd round pick assuming they make a strong choice (see below).

 

There literally could be a book written on this single trade examining its implications in the salary cap era......or at least a novella, lol.

 

I'm not prepared to do that here explaining my own view, nor am I gonna say trust me, it's a good deal for the Browns and expect you to agree.

Let me just give you a few thoughts to chew on yourself so you can take it to the next level with your own thinking.

 

The key to this whole thing is to have a frame of view of how winning in the salary cap era can, and probably should be approached (especially for a team like Clev). Instead of thinking about the one aspect, considering the trade holistically in roster building because make no mistake Clev is a classic rebuild..

 

Trying to stay simplistic, let me just give some quick random thoughts for you to consider;

 

Cleveland has to spend money, no choice, they have to hit their mandate.

 

So.......what else could they have done with the $$ instead?

 

Spend it on an FA?

 

Remember this trade creates a one year cap hit.

 

Could they have spent enough to become serious contenders with their current or post draft roster?  

I think you'll agree it wasn't going to happen for them this year. So they have to think about a window 2-4 yrs down the road realistically.

 

Spend it on a multi-yr deal for a guy, possibly with an upfront load? Actually much riskier allocation of funds IMO, gotta be the right guy to feel good about it and he has to be a guy who fits that window.

 

They actually made a couple of nice signings as was noted with the OL already that helps build the foundation, maybe you see a specific guy or guys you want in that window but I'd counter its hard to know looking a few years out exactly what they need. As it is now with all the picks they own, and its a lot, its possible to probable that its better to take best available in the draft and see what develops then fill later needs with free agency esp when later they have a better chance of competing in FA if things go int he right direction.

 

If they had signed a 1yr Fa like a Alshon instead, or even a multi-yr guy, that player fills a roster slot that could be used on a developing guy.........one of the biggest advantages poor teams have is available roster slots for developing players.

 

I mean these are just a few considerations.

 

Over riding this while thing is in the salary cap era building a multi-year winning roster is all about getting production below market for players on your roster. To highlight what I'm talking about take the extreme example of the Seahawks and Russell Wilson a few years ago. The Seahwaks were able to find their starting QB and pay him 670k for a few years while most other teams were paying QBs 12-15 mil or more. Imagine how that affects your ability to maneuver on the rest of your roster. Now as I say that's an extreme example, but the same applies at every position on a team to lesser degrees. Draft picks are the number one way to roster a player who contributes more than his market value.

 

Incidentally, the other primary way to roster below market value players is signing FA bargains. What kind of chance of doing that do the Browns have at this point in time? FA vets sometimes sign for below market to play with a winner. To go to Cleveland they require a surcharge! Chances are very good any FA signing and potentially even any extension of their own players requires an above market price! There is a realistic chance they are actually falling behind other teams in balance sheet terms when they sign an FA!

 

The only way the Brownies are going to be able to rebuild a stable winning team is through the draft IMO. Making that trade allocated money for a year that in the scheme of things didn't matter. Compared to rostering an FA, if they cut Brock it leaves open a slot for a developing player who can be of help during their window. It actually prevents them from mis-allocating future cap either by mistake or lack of knowledge of the future. And the 2nd round pick is an asset that has a chance to fit the window, bring production below market, or be used in some other way such as part of a trade.

 

There is truly so much more to chew on here but I only want to allocate this amount of time I've used, maybe someone else on the same wavelength can pick up the discussion and add though.

 

I don't have a problem with doing this, I think it's a great idea - it's done in the NBA all the time.  My only point of contention is that they also gave up a 4th round pick and only got a 2nd back.  They paid, as it stands, $16M to jump up 2 rounds - a year later - in the draft.  To me, that's not enough of a return.  They're doing Houston the bigger favor.  Yeah, Cleveland is getting something out of it, but no where near enough, especially when the word is that they're trying to get rid of him.  Cleveland was holding all the cards.  Houston needed the deal a whole lot more than the Browns.  The Browns should not have settled for anything less than a 1st and shouldn't have given up anything more than a 5th.



#33 lesjroza

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 02:51 PM

 

I don't have a problem with doing this, I think it's a great idea - it's done in the NBA all the time.  My only point of contention is that they also gave up a 4th round pick and only got a 2nd back.  They paid, as it stands, $16M to jump up 2 rounds - a year later - in the draft.  To me, that's not enough of a return.  They're doing Houston the bigger favor.  Yeah, Cleveland is getting something out of it, but no where near enough, especially when the word is that they're trying to get rid of him.  Cleveland was holding all the cards.  Houston needed the deal a whole lot more than the Browns.  The Browns should not have settled for anything less than a 1st and shouldn't have given up anything more than a 5th.

 

Well sure, they should get as much as they possibly can!

 

Consider this though, how much would a team give up for Tony Romo at this point in his career?

 

A 1st round pick? I think 99 out of 100 who have watched the NFL the last few years are going to say no way. They leave Tony hanging right?

 

Well that's essentially what Hou is doing here with Clev. They are paying for the right to be in a position to roster Romo or somebody like him, and they still may even end paying for Romo too.

 

It would be very difficult to impossible to get a team to agree to that IMO. Its probably awfully difficult to swallow the 2nd but it wouldn't have been worth a 3rd for Clev....I think its about right on compensation personally. Now maybe Cleveland not give a 4th back in return? Agreed..................................... but look at the picks Cleveland owns right now.

 

Been in the same situation myself in FF and you're pretty stoked to upgrade to a 2nd..................  the 4th is probably only of full value to you when you own so many picks, who then need to be rostered, if you wait until the draft and then turn it into a 3rd the following year or something along those lines.



#34 Maulers1973

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 02:56 PM

 

I don't have a problem with doing this, I think it's a great idea - it's done in the NBA all the time.  My only point of contention is that they also gave up a 4th round pick and only got a 2nd back.  They paid, as it stands, $16M to jump up 2 rounds - a year later - in the draft.  To me, that's not enough of a return.  They're doing Houston the bigger favor.  Yeah, Cleveland is getting something out of it, but no where near enough, especially when the word is that they're trying to get rid of him.  Cleveland was holding all the cards.  Houston needed the deal a whole lot more than the Browns.  The Browns should not have settled for anything less than a 1st and shouldn't have given up anything more than a 5th.

 

I agree with your premise.  If they weren't so low below the cap I'd be quite upset.  As it were, in this situation, the 16 mil almost means nothing. It's as if it represents salary money they weren't going to spend anyway, so why not get a pick for it or in this case upgrade a pick.  However, the value is terribly weak.  I can see Houston being firm in refusing to release a 1st rounder.  That's fine, but then we keep our 4th, or maybe we get their 2nd and 4th next year.  The Browns should have gained something more of value in this deal and they didn't.  

 

The Browns did ok because they did gain some value out of the deal, but they should have gained more.  



#35 TBayXXXVII

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 03:44 PM



 

Well sure, they should get as much as they possibly can!

 

Consider this though, how much would a team give up for Tony Romo at this point in his career?

 

A 1st round pick? I think 99 out of 100 who have watched the NFL the last few years are going to say no way. They leave Tony hanging right?

 

Well that's essentially what Hou is doing here with Clev. They are paying for the right to be in a position to roster Romo or somebody like him, and they still may even end paying for Romo too.

 

It would be very difficult to impossible to get a team to agree to that IMO. Its probably awfully difficult to swallow the 2nd but it wouldn't have been worth a 3rd for Clev....I think its about right on compensation personally. Now maybe Cleveland not give a 4th back in return? Agreed..................................... but look at the picks Cleveland owns right now.

 

Been in the same situation myself in FF and you're pretty stoked to upgrade to a 2nd..................  the 4th is probably only of full value to you when you own so many picks, who then need to be rostered, if you wait until the draft and then turn it into a 3rd the following year or something along those lines.

 

Oh, I get Houston's side completely, but that's none of Cleveland's concern.  As I said, if I'm the Browns, I'd want more and I don't care what Houston's plans are... that's on them, not me [Cleveland].  Also, that draft pick is next year, not this year.  That's all the more reason why the Browns should have been strong in demanding a 1st.



#36 Ray_T

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 03:47 PM

 

 

Here's the thing. If you think about this deal in terms of analyzing just the pick bump I understand how one comes to the that conclusion, I don't blame you. Even in that case though, I think I could probably show you mathematically how they could come out ahead of the $16 million hit this year by saving that over the course of a below market rookie contract for a 2nd round pick assuming they make a strong choice (see below).

 

There literally could be a book written on this single trade examining its implications in the salary cap era......or at least a novella, lol.

 

I'm not prepared to do that here explaining my own view, nor am I gonna say trust me, it's a good deal for the Browns and expect you to agree.

Let me just give you a few thoughts to chew on yourself so you can take it to the next level with your own thinking.

 

The key to this whole thing is to have a frame of view of how winning in the salary cap era can, and probably should be approached (especially for a team like Clev). Instead of thinking about the one aspect, considering the trade holistically in roster building because make no mistake Clev is a classic rebuild..

 

Trying to stay simplistic, let me just give some quick random thoughts for you to consider;

 

Cleveland has to spend money, no choice, they have to hit their mandate.

 

So.......what else could they have done with the $$ instead?

 

Spend it on an FA?

 

Remember this trade creates a one year cap hit.

 

Could they have spent enough to become serious contenders with their current or post draft roster?  

I think you'll agree it wasn't going to happen for them this year. So they have to think about a window 2-4 yrs down the road realistically.

 

Spend it on a multi-yr deal for a guy, possibly with an upfront load? Actually much riskier allocation of funds IMO, gotta be the right guy to feel good about it and he has to be a guy who fits that window.

 

They actually made a couple of nice signings as was noted with the OL already that helps build the foundation, maybe you see a specific guy or guys you want in that window but I'd counter its hard to know looking a few years out exactly what they need. As it is now with all the picks they own, and its a lot, its possible to probable that its better to take best available in the draft and see what develops then fill later needs with free agency esp when later they have a better chance of competing in FA if things go int he right direction.

 

If they had signed a 1yr Fa like a Alshon instead, or even a multi-yr guy, that player fills a roster slot that could be used on a developing guy.........one of the biggest advantages poor teams have is available roster slots for developing players.

 

I mean these are just a few considerations.

 

Over riding this while thing is in the salary cap era building a multi-year winning roster is all about getting production below market for players on your roster. To highlight what I'm talking about take the extreme example of the Seahawks and Russell Wilson a few years ago. The Seahwaks were able to find their starting QB and pay him 670k for a few years while most other teams were paying QBs 12-15 mil or more. Imagine how that affects your ability to maneuver on the rest of your roster. Now as I say that's an extreme example, but the same applies at every position on a team to lesser degrees. Draft picks are the number one way to roster a player who contributes more than his market value.

 

Incidentally, the other primary way to roster below market value players is signing FA bargains. What kind of chance of doing that do the Browns have at this point in time? FA vets sometimes sign for below market to play with a winner. To go to Cleveland they require a surcharge! Chances are very good any FA signing and potentially even any extension of their own players requires an above market price! There is a realistic chance they are actually falling behind other teams in balance sheet terms when they sign an FA!

 

The only way the Brownies are going to be able to rebuild a stable winning team is through the draft IMO. Making that trade allocated money for a year that in the scheme of things didn't matter. Compared to rostering an FA, if they cut Brock it leaves open a slot for a developing player who can be of help during their window. It actually prevents them from mis-allocating future cap either by mistake or lack of knowledge of the future. And the 2nd round pick is an asset that has a chance to fit the window, bring production below market, or be used in some other way such as part of a trade.

 

There is truly so much more to chew on here but I only want to allocate this amount of time I've used, maybe someone else on the same wavelength can pick up the discussion and add though.

Nice post.

 

the only thing I would add is this:

 

Brock is still a young player.   He could be turned around with good coaching, and the Coach in Cleveland has a history of getting good production out of QB.

 

I'm just thinking maybe they give him a shot.   They are paying him anyways so why wouldnt they give him a chance to win the starting job?

 

That's all I'm saying.  If he loses the battle, or is not productive as a player, they can dump him.  There is really very little risk to the team here and that is why its a good move for Cleveland.

 

at the VERY LEAST this is a good insurance policy.   Getting a Free agent QB to sign in CLE may not be an easy task either.  You gotta keep that in mind.   If I'm a free agent QB with some talent,  When I think of teams I'd like to play on... Cleveland is not likely to be at the top of my list because people want to play for a winner.


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#37 lesjroza

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 04:32 PM



 

Oh, I get Houston's side completely, but that's none of Cleveland's concern.  As I said, if I'm the Browns, I'd want more and I don't care what Houston's plans are... that's on them, not me [Cleveland].  Also, that draft pick is next year, not this year.  That's all the more reason why the Browns should have been strong in demanding a 1st.

 

Houston's motivation is of Cleveland's concern because you can't get more out of someone than they are willing to pay. I don't think Houston's motivation rises to the level of giving up more. I don't think they would pay a 1st to have Romo as the starter with his back as it is, at his age.

I could certainly be wrong and if you think they would give up a 1st I have no evidence to refute it, just a difference of opinion.

 

Its possible the owner said, I don't care about your previous mistake, I don't want Osweiler, get it done at any price in which case you would be correct, Cleveland should have gotten more. However, if the owner wasn't involved to the point where the GM had cover, and the GM who signed Osweiler last off-season to a big deal then gave a future 1st to move him from the team.......that GM is signing his own walking papers with the trade IMO, just don't see it happening. 



#38 lesjroza

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 04:40 PM

Nice post.

 

the only thing I would add is this:

 

Brock is still a young player.   He could be turned around with good coaching, and the Coach in Cleveland has a history of getting good production out of QB.

 

I'm just thinking maybe they give him a shot.   They are paying him anyways so why wouldnt they give him a chance to win the starting job?

 

That's all I'm saying.  If he loses the battle, or is not productive as a player, they can dump him.  There is really very little risk to the team here and that is why its a good move for Cleveland.

 

at the VERY LEAST this is a good insurance policy.   Getting a Free agent QB to sign in CLE may not be an easy task either.  You gotta keep that in mind.   If I'm a free agent QB with some talent,  When I think of teams I'd like to play on... Cleveland is not likely to be at the top of my list because people want to play for a winner.

 

Yeah, I agree with you to a point. I actually wondered if when I heard the announcement they were considering cutting him, it was done for the Cleveland fan base so the deal could be seen more clearly by them. The headlines don't make sense to the average fan that the team traded for Osweiler and his 16 mil cap number until you think about him being out of the equation, so you have to make people think about it without him to focus on the pick.

 

I think at least they should kick the tires, use him as a camp arm. Have him fetch coffees for the coaching staff, whatever. (not really). Teams sign guys all the time to have enough QBs to throw passes to WRs with the bloated rosters prior to cuts. See what's there, give some other QB situations and injuries a chance to play out. Maybe you get something out of him more than you expect. The devil's advocate side though says if you have already made the evaluation that he is not your guy then you are using a roster slot and reps on a guy when you could be developing another that might help you in the future either as your starter or backup. Reps are valuable.



#39 Quickolas1

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 04:57 PM

The Browns were $100 million under the cap.
They had to spend... a ton.

If you think it's pointless to sign Julius Thomas to a 1 year $50 million contract or 3 years for $60 million or something else silly (the Jags overpaid for Julius a few years ago to get to the salary cap floor)...

...then swapping a 4th rounder for a 2nd and 6th is pretty smart, since they have to "waste" money this year somehow anyway. Draft picks are better than way overpriced older players who will clog cap down the road. Osweiler does not.

If the Texans say they won't give their 1st or won't do it if Cle says they'll only send their 5th... then Cle should yield and accept like they did. Why? Re-read the previous paragraph.

And they'll trade him or cut him which will put a dent into the 16 million.

#40 ralphster

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Posted 11 March 2017 - 07:44 AM

Word is that the Browns are shopping Oz for a 3rd and they'll pay half his salary. If they manage to get that trade they will have basically purchased a 2nd AND a 3rd in 2018 for roughly 8 mil, which is great for the team.

If they don't swing a trade for him he will compete for their QB gig this year, which likely will improve their draft slot next year.

Not keeping Pryor (and watching him subsequently sign w the iggles fir 8 mil) bothers me far more than the Oz trade.
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