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Brandon Cooks is now a Patriot


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#1 Ray_T

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 08:56 PM

This was reported a short while ago on NFL.com

 


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#2 jdon

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 08:59 PM

great move, but I predict he doesn't perform in fantasy like we think he will.

I expect brandon lafell numbers for him in NE

watch and see...


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#3 Mike FF Today

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 09:08 PM

Big fantasy implications on both sides. Can Michael Thomas' value get any higher? Julian Edelman takes a hit? ... Ohh my...


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#4 polecatt

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 09:35 PM

Not sure how this will work out.

On the surface It looks to me like the perfect place for Cooks to keep doing what he has done in New England.

That is a big time Boom or Bust player, whose overall numbers are pretty good. He'll have a 3 or 4 huge games and just as many where he is absolutely worthless. Most weeks though he'll fall a little short of what you want.

It's the rare case where a guy goes to the Patriots and isn't getting a big upgrade in QB. Plus it's not a huge upgrade in offensive scheme.

That said Nobody has a knack for getting the best out of players like Bill. He could very well find a spot for Cooks where he puts up big numbers.

Worst case scenario would be him falling into the mix of slot WRs and not having much value.

I think he'll still be a valuable fantasy asset along the lines of what he was with the Saints but with a little added risk and upside.



#5 BobSanders_33

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 10:03 PM

I think he will be limited by the ball being spread around.

#6 Ray_T

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 10:17 PM

I think he will be limited by the ball being spread around.

I agree.  The pats do everything by committee.

 

the good news is that Brady will toss at least 4000 yards and quite likely for a fair bit more.  so the pie is big.

 

but the pie was big in New Orleans too.

 

I wouldnt be surprised if his numbers remained about the same.


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#7 weepaws

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 10:45 PM

Cooks was eleventh in scoring at the Wr postion last season.

And out of the top seventeen scoring Wr last season he was seventeenth in targets.

He can do a lot with a little bit of targets.

Edelman had 160 targets last season, so I think they can diffently find more targets for Cooks.

His value has gone up IMO and so has M Thomas.

This is a good ff trade.

#8 pee-diddy

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 11:55 PM

Brady is the winner here.



#9 Marshall

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Posted 11 March 2017 - 12:30 AM

Brady is the winner here.

 

He's got to be pretty happy about the Pats' current WR cadre: Brandin Cooks, Malcolm Mitchell, Chris Hogan, Julian Edelman, Danny Amendola...what a crew!


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#10 Frozenbeernuts

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Posted 11 March 2017 - 04:03 AM

Not sure how this will work out.
On the surface It looks to me like the perfect place for Cooks to keep doing what he has done in New England.
That is a big time Boom or Bust player, whose overall numbers are pretty good. He'll have a 3 or 4 huge games and just as many where he is absolutely worthless. Most weeks though he'll fall a little short of what you want.
It's the rare case where a guy goes to the Patriots and isn't getting a big upgrade in QB. Plus it's not a huge upgrade in offensive scheme.
That said Nobody has a knack for getting the best out of players like Bill. He could very well find a spot for Cooks where he puts up big numbers.
Worst case scenario would be him falling into the mix of slot WRs and not having much value.
I think he'll still be a valuable fantasy asset along the lines of what he was with the Saints but with a little added risk and upside.


I would counter with, why would the Patriots trade a 1st round pick for Cooks knowing how unhappy he was in NO, just to use him here and there in their own offense? Cooks wasnt happy and he was the 11th best fantasy receiver last year.

#11 Mike Nice

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Posted 11 March 2017 - 06:59 AM

With Gronk back and Mitchell with an expanded role, i don't see cooks getting a ton of receptions. If anything it's a lateral move for Cooks at best but an upgrade for Brady.

#12 ralphster

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Posted 11 March 2017 - 07:16 AM

Up arrows across the board: Cooks remains a top 20 wr, Snead and M Thomas both increase in value, Brady benefits too.
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#13 lesjroza

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Posted 11 March 2017 - 07:38 AM

           I have no idea how it will play out for Cooks in NE. It could be great, it could be FF bust city.

 

The history of WRs coming in from outside and gaining the trust of Brady in that complicated option routes system is not great.

 

The Pats do spread the ball which is scary, but at the same time, the very top options in the passing game are still consistent FF gold.

 

Edelman, Gronk now, Moss in the past.

 

As a Cooks owner in a couple of dynasty leagues I'm scared but excited at the same time. If it works out and he gets consistent targets, his speed and ability on those slants, crossers, and screens in that system combined with the Ds inability to answer for everyone could be something truly special...............I could actually see him being utilized more in NE than he was in NO......................... or he could bust. LOL

 

A lot of fun to watch that one play out this year,.



#14 bandrus1

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Posted 11 March 2017 - 08:30 AM

NO spread the ball around a ton and he got his numbers.... as said above. NOt many times a wr comes to Brady and gets downgraded at by but I think cooks will have lower fantasy numbers

#15 Oriole8159

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Posted 11 March 2017 - 11:17 AM

My concern is whether you can make him an every week starter though. On an aggregate level Cooks end of year numbers last year were good, but don't forget this is a weekly game, so there were just as many weeks where Cooks gave you nothing because he was so up and down. Cooks was not a must start every week player last year, so you had to guess which week he was or wasn't going to go off. And if you had him on your bench the week he goes off for 140 yards and 2 TDs, then those stats are meaningless.

 

NE WRs have historically been the same. Now granted Cooks is more talented physically than your average Pats WR, but with them already having Edelman, Gronk, Allen, Hogan battling for targets, are you going to have to guess again which game Cooks goes off and which he doesn't? Because if you do, then it doesn't matter if he finishes as a Top 20 WR because you didn't get a Top 20 return for the big games when he was on your bench.

 

There could be safer week to week options.


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#16 TBayXXXVII

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Posted 11 March 2017 - 12:15 PM

I would counter with, why would the Patriots trade a 1st round pick for Cooks knowing how unhappy he was in NO, just to use him here and there in their own offense? Cooks wasnt happy and he was the 11th best fantasy receiver last year.


This^^^^

I think he ends up being a top 5-7 WR next season. If you draft a 1st rd WR, you plan on using him a lot. The Patriots did more than that... they gave up a 3rd too. Cooks will probably see 10-15 targets every week.

#17 weepaws

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Posted 11 March 2017 - 12:41 PM

Yeah I can agree with that, and I can see Cooks being a top 7 Wr next season in ff.

He was only 18 points short of finshing in the top 7 last season.

I would imagine he will have more than 117 targets next season like he had last season.

#18 Ray_T

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Posted 11 March 2017 - 02:06 PM

This^^^^

I think he ends up being a top 5-7 WR next season. If you draft a 1st rd WR, you plan on using him a lot. The Patriots did more than that... they gave up a 3rd too. Cooks will probably see 10-15 targets every week.

Yeah, 

 

if he behaves like a Diva, he wont last in New England.


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#19 Frozenbeernuts

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Posted 11 March 2017 - 03:12 PM

Yeah, 
 
if he behaves like a Diva, he wont last in New England.


No, but I think he had a legitimate gripe. The Saints kind of let Thomas take over in a sense, even though he was a rookie and honestly he isn't as good as Cooks. Cooks deserves to be featured, especially when the team isn't winning using other methods.

#20 Loaded Box

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Posted 11 March 2017 - 03:23 PM

I like the move more for the actual Patriots team than I do as move in fantasy football.  New England is the type of team that is going to take what the defense gives them and spread the ball around to different guys depending on the game plan.  So while there's no doubt Cooks will have big weeks, it's not like he was playing with a team with a weak offense in the past.  As of now I'm thinking Cooks will be drafted higher than he should, and I think I'll let others reach for him in 2017


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#21 Mike FF Today

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Posted 11 March 2017 - 03:34 PM

Just posted Colby's article on Cooks' fantasy impact in New England.

 

He brings up a good point. The fact that Edelman's going to be a free agent in 2018 means Cooks could be in for a bigger role in 2018 but not necessarily this upcoming season.


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#22 weepaws

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Posted 11 March 2017 - 08:41 PM

Seems like a lot to give for him.

I think he's going to be a player who's rankings will be disputed this summer.

I can see myself over ranking him.

#23 Ray_T

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Posted 11 March 2017 - 10:09 PM

Just posted Colby's article on Cooks' fantasy impact in New England.

 

He brings up a good point. The fact that Edelman's going to be a free agent in 2018 means Cooks could be in for a bigger role in 2018 but not necessarily this upcoming season.

but doesnt Cooks only have one year left on his contract as well?

 

Maybe I'm mistaken.  

 

correct me if I'm wrong on this, but if both WR become free agents at the same time, that cant be good either.


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#24 polecatt

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Posted 11 March 2017 - 10:46 PM

I would counter with, why would the Patriots trade a 1st round pick for Cooks knowing how unhappy he was in NO, just to use him here and there in their own offense? Cooks wasnt happy and he was the 11th best fantasy receiver last year.

I didn't mean they would use him "here and there."  I mean from a fantasy football view point this appears to be a very similar situation to the one he left, at least on the surface.
Great QB, a stable, pass happy scheme, and plenty of competition to go around for targets. The Patriots are notorious for unpredictable production of their skill players.
It just says more boom or bust to me.
I could be wrong, maybe Bill finds a role for him that leads to huge numbers week in and week out.
Just have to wait and see.

#25 weepaws

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 12:14 AM

If he just post the ff points he did in ppr most season he would be a Wr1.

I'm thinking a lot of other owners will be a little hesitant in taking him as a Wr1 based on what you said polecatt.

#26 Frozenbeernuts

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 08:23 AM

I didn't mean they would use him "here and there."  I mean from a fantasy football view point this appears to be a very similar situation to the one he left, at least on the surface.
Great QB, a stable, pass happy scheme, and plenty of competition to go around for targets. The Patriots are notorious for unpredictable production of their skill players.
It just says more boom or bust to me.
I could be wrong, maybe Bill finds a role for him that leads to huge numbers week in and week out.
Just have to wait and see.


Yeah it's definitely possible he remains inconsistent. Maybe working with a good coach instead of a coach who is living off of 1 super bowl win over a decade ago will be enough to satisfy Cooks. Maybe as long as the team is making good use of all of their players he won't mind that he isn't featured. It could have just been that he saw the talent around him in NO and couldn't figure out why he was used as a decoy.

That's part of why I think Payton is a poor coach. The best receiver is that for a reason, because he can do the most at the position. Using Cooks as a decoy once in a while is good game planning. Going games barely using him, and they are still losing, that's unacceptable imo. Coaches get too wrapped up in their stupid playbooks instead of just using simple methods to get the ball into the hands of the guy who is lightning fast.

There will be a lot more underneath stuff where Cooks gets to touch the ball and then make something happen. Edelman is great at what he does, but Cooks imo is on another level. I'm betting the talent shines through.

#27 jaxjag

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 09:50 AM

My concern is whether you can make him an every week starter though. On an aggregate level Cooks end of year numbers last year were good, but don't forget this is a weekly game, so there were just as many weeks where Cooks gave you nothing because he was so up and down. Cooks was not a must start every week player last year, so you had to guess which week he was or wasn't going to go off. And if you had him on your bench the week he goes off for 140 yards and 2 TDs, then those stats are meaningless.

 

NE WRs have historically been the same. Now granted Cooks is more talented physically than your average Pats WR, but with them already having Edelman, Gronk, Allen, Hogan battling for targets, are you going to have to guess again which game Cooks goes off and which he doesn't? Because if you do, then it doesn't matter if he finishes as a Top 20 WR because you didn't get a Top 20 return for the big games when he was on your bench.

 

There could be safer week to week options.

 

Do you own Cooks?  I do and he was never on my bench last year.   Who are these "safer" week to week options?  Cooks had the zero catch week which was more about the coaching staff trying to teach him a lesson or some other shenanigans.  I think that has been blown out of proportion.  He was as safe week to week as most other options.

 

No doubt there are lots of weapons in NE.  But Is Gronk ever going to demand the targets he did a few years back?  Is Allen really a big receiving threat?   Hogan had 38 receptions last year.   Edelman will be 31 soon and the wear and tear has to accumulating.  Cooks is 23...  hard to imagine BB giving up a 1st rounder for a guy he will lightly use...

 

The NE game plan is tough to predict.  Was White really on the radar before the SB?   Their "elite" receivers have been consistent.  Moss, Welker, Gronk, etc. have been dependable enough to be must starts.


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#28 Quickolas1

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 12:56 PM

This is Cooks' last contract year but because he was a 1st rounder, the Saints had a 5th year option. Don't know if Pats get that option via the trade.

 

The question no one here has yet asked is what was missing in the offense? (why would Belicheck want Cooks so badly)

A: Pure speed.

Hogan was the deep threat but he got open via play action or DB breakdown, not by running past anyone.

 

Brady's strength is recognition, matchups and ball placement on fast short/intermediate routes.

Not the deep out or fly patterns anymore. Not consistently, at least.

 

Edelman: 90 catches

RB's: 80 catches (huge part of Brady's success... uncovered dump-offs in many cases...)

 

You're never going to lineup anything other than a CB against Cooks.

Every other pass catcher on this team is a short/intermediate operator so this could help Edelman / Gronk / RBs with even weaker coverage.

I wouldn't expect the same 8-9 targets Cooks got in almost every game last year.

In 2018 as Edelman's replacement, I would.



#29 Oriole8159

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 01:23 PM

 

Do you own Cooks?  I do and he was never on my bench last year.   Who are these "safer" week to week options?  Cooks had the zero catch week which was more about the coaching staff trying to teach him a lesson or some other shenanigans.  I think that has been blown out of proportion.  He was as safe week to week as most other options.

 

No doubt there are lots of weapons in NE.  But Is Gronk ever going to demand the targets he did a few years back?  Is Allen really a big receiving threat?   Hogan had 38 receptions last year.   Edelman will be 31 soon and the wear and tear has to accumulating.  Cooks is 23...  hard to imagine BB giving up a 1st rounder for a guy he will lightly use...

 

The NE game plan is tough to predict.  Was White really on the radar before the SB?   Their "elite" receivers have been consistent.  Moss, Welker, Gronk, etc. have been dependable enough to be must starts.

 

I was just thinking out loud when I wrote that, so I have no issue acknowledging that it could be eventually proved false. We're all just speculating here because of the unknown. I didn't have him last year but I have in the past, and when I did, he was not an every week starter for me.

 

And it all depends on where he's being drafted if we're looking at more consistent week to week starters. If he's being drafted in the 3rd rd as a backend WR1, I do think you can find safer picks; maybe not the upside, but more consistent. If we're talking in the 4/5 rd as a WR2, then I'd be very content with that value.

 

Fair?


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#30 Frozenbeernuts

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 01:27 PM

 
I was just thinking out loud when I wrote that, so I have no issue acknowledging that it could be eventually proved false. We're all just speculating here because of the unknown. I didn't have him last year but I have in the past, and when I did, he was not an every week starter for me.
 
And it all depends on where he's being drafted if we're looking at more consistent week to week starters. If he's being drafted in the 3rd rd as a backend WR1, I do think you can find safer picks; maybe not the upside, but more consistent. If we're talking in the 4/5 rd as a WR2, then I'd be very content with that value.
 
Fair?


I don't think there is any way he lasts until the 4th. The upside is too tantalizing for someone in every draft.

#31 Oriole8159

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 01:32 PM

I don't think there is any way he lasts until the 4th. The upside is too tantalizing for someone in every draft.

if that's the case then, I think it's very fair to say there could be more consistent players, especially in a non-PPR.

I'd like to say this is one to keep an eye on in preseason, but something tells me Bill and Brady won't let the cat out of the bag early.


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#32 lesjroza

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 02:09 PM

This is Cooks' last contract year but because he was a 1st rounder, the Saints had a 5th year option. Don't know if Pats get that option via the trade.

 

The question no one here has yet asked is what was missing in the offense? (why would Belicheck want Cooks so badly)

A: Pure speed.

Hogan was the deep threat but he got open via play action or DB breakdown, not by running past anyone.

 

Brady's strength is recognition, matchups and ball placement on fast short/intermediate routes.

Not the deep out or fly patterns anymore. Not consistently, at least.

 

Edelman: 90 catches

RB's: 80 catches (huge part of Brady's success... uncovered dump-offs in many cases...)

 

You're never going to lineup anything other than a CB against Cooks.

Every other pass catcher on this team is a short/intermediate operator so this could help Edelman / Gronk / RBs with even weaker coverage.

I wouldn't expect the same 8-9 targets Cooks got in almost every game last year.

In 2018 as Edelman's replacement, I would.

 

      Brady deep to Cooks is what most people are probably thinking about with Cooks speed and I agree with you they will likely be disappointed but I think the Pats know Brady's best days as a deep thrower are well behind him. When I first heard about the trade potential I wasn't thinking about Cooks deep at all, but rather the Pats using him on the slants, crossers and even wheel routes in that offense.

 

Speed kills not only deep vertically but also horizontally. One particular play this year immediately came to mind in a game I was watching against Az and I have seen Cooks make this play many times in the past as well. Watch the second TD (starts about 50 sec mark) from the Youtube clip below and you'll see what I mean..... just a little out that he then turns up and breaks it to the house. You see this type of play as a staple of the Pats O with Edelman...........Gronk lined up outside coming across on a clear out route, then Edleman or a RB on the out.............. Cooks is capable of doing so much more with it.

 

Cooks speed can turn that play into a long TD, likewise,with a quick or intermediate slant, an intermediate crossing route, a screen, or a wheel route.

 

Brady can do what Brady still does supremely and utilize Cooks speed nearly to its fullest, they don't have to connect on deep balls IMO.

 

My biggest question is how long does it take Cooks to know what he is supposed to do when the D lines up the way it does, if at all. The option routes depend almost entirely on all the guys on the field running the route they are supposed to according to the coverage all the time, not just when you get the ball. I just don't think anybody can know the answer. I do think Edelman can get his, Gronk his, and Cooks his, if the other WRs a back seat and maybe they even pull a little bit from the RBs. Gonna be fun to see it play out.

 



#33 weepaws

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 03:09 PM

I don't think he will last longer than the third round in a ppr league.

Could be there longer in a non ppr league.

#34 Frozenbeernuts

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 07:53 AM

I actually don't find any threat coming from the running backs when people count them in and say They need their catches too. NE has a couple nice pass catching backs. Well I think White on any other team would be a nothing and I don't think he is very good, but the Pats make good use out of him.

Still, the key is they are nice options. Cooks is so much more dynamic and versatile that it wouldn't make sense leaving Cooks out of the loop touch wise just to get the running backs their equal touches out of the backfield.

#35 lesjroza

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 09:01 AM

I actually don't find any threat coming from the running backs when people count them in and say They need their catches too. NE has a couple nice pass catching backs. Well I think White on any other team would be a nothing and I don't think he is very good, but the Pats make good use out of him.

Still, the key is they are nice options. Cooks is so much more dynamic and versatile that it wouldn't make sense leaving Cooks out of the loop touch wise just to get the running backs their equal touches out of the backfield.

 

Not sure if that was addressed to what I posted earlier at all or not but I was actually saying the opposite. Its all conjecture of course, but I was saying I think Cooks could be allotted some of what were previously "RB touches". I think there is a good chance that he can do as much or more with those touches on similar routes. It won't shock me at all if Cooks is the guy motioning out of the backfield instead of a D. Lewis/White occasionally. Its all conjecture, anybody who tells you they know how its going to play out is a fool because they simply don't know what they can't know. The Pats will let it play out on the field in practices and go from there.

 

I saw something on Twitter about how a reporter "asked an NFC player" about Cooks and it was said he has fantastic but has only elite straight line speed, essentially 1 trick pony. I had to laugh because my own belief is that is a tremendous misconception. Cooks actually has top tier agility numbers in my database from the combine and I expect people are confusing what he is capable of, with the types of routes he was used/targeted on.....we shall see.



#36 Frozenbeernuts

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 09:17 AM

 
Not sure if that was addressed to what I posted earlier at all or not but I was actually saying the opposite. Its all conjecture of course, but I was saying I think Cooks could be allotted some of what were previously "RB touches". I think there is a good chance that he can do as much or more with those touches on similar routes. It won't shock me at all if Cooks is the guy motioning out of the backfield instead of a D. Lewis/White occasionally. Its all conjecture, anybody who tells you they know how its going to play out is a fool because they simply don't know what they can't know. The Pats will let it play out on the field in practices and go from there.
 
I saw something on Twitter about how a reporter "asked an NFC player" about Cooks and it was said he has fantastic but has only elite straight line speed, essentially 1 trick pony. I had to laugh because my own belief is that is a tremendous misconception. Cooks actually has top tier agility numbers in my database from the combine and I expect people are confusing what he is capable of, with the types of routes he was used/targeted on.....we shall see.


Yeah I agree with you. Some others are saying he will not have as many touches because of the talent at rb.

He is definitely more than a 1 trick pony. His height is his only negative, but in today's NFL it's not a big deal. Working with the Patriots it matters even less.

#37 lesjroza

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 09:29 AM

Yeah I agree with you. Some others are saying he will not have as many touches because of the talent at rb.

He is definitely more than a 1 trick pony. His height is his only negative, but in today's NFL it's not a big deal. Working with the Patriots it matters even less.

 

 

You just hit on my own theory as to why Cooks was not used on certain routes in NO that he will be used on in NE. Brees is one of the best QBs in the NFL but he doesn't see the whole field at 6 ft 0 (and that may be generous). Everybody knows the best way to defend the Saints is pressure up the middle in his face so the Saints design their whole passing game around creating passing lanes for Brees to throw. Brady at 6 ft 4 does see the whole field and teams don't defend the Pats that way. Brees finding a 5 ft 10 cooks while looking over the top of his OL Plus the rushing DL is not finding Cooks on a short crosser...............Brady will, the same way he does with Edleman and a RB now.

I think Cooks can get separation at all levels of the field, it just hasn't been utilized. But again, my own enthusiasm is tempered because of the history of WRs finding a comfort with Brady and the NE passing game. I actually think the upside is far beyond what guys are imagining right now......... but there is also a realistic chance he busts in the FF sense. While I think if he gets the O down, he can prove worthy of an allocation of touches even without cutting into Edelman/Gronk don't forget Gronk and Edleman haven't been the most healthy duo over the course of the last few years. If Cooks proves worthy of being a top 2/3 option and one of those guys goes down................. we are talking true league winner. I'll take him if he falls to the back round of the 3rd every time this summer regardless of my concerns....its crazy risk/reward value if guys are saying he may be around that late.



#38 Smileseers

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 10:14 AM

This is Cooks' last contract year but because he was a 1st rounder, the Saints had a 5th year option. Don't know if Pats get that option via the trade.

 

Yes the Pats can exercise the 5th year option in 2018 which should be around $8 million for Cooks.


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#39 weepaws

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 11:00 AM

Is M Floyd due to be suspended?

#40 Ray_T

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 11:58 AM

ok, my understanding is that when you trade the player, you also trade the contract and all terms of said contract.

 

so if there is a 5th year option, New England will get that 5th year option.

 

That is the way I understand that.

 

Thanks for the clarification.

This is Cooks' last contract year but because he was a 1st rounder, the Saints had a 5th year option. Don't know if Pats get that option via the trade.

 

The question no one here has yet asked is what was missing in the offense? (why would Belicheck want Cooks so badly)

A: Pure speed.

Hogan was the deep threat but he got open via play action or DB breakdown, not by running past anyone.

 

Brady's strength is recognition, matchups and ball placement on fast short/intermediate routes.

Not the deep out or fly patterns anymore. Not consistently, at least.

 

Edelman: 90 catches

RB's: 80 catches (huge part of Brady's success... uncovered dump-offs in many cases...)

 

You're never going to lineup anything other than a CB against Cooks.

Every other pass catcher on this team is a short/intermediate operator so this could help Edelman / Gronk / RBs with even weaker coverage.

I wouldn't expect the same 8-9 targets Cooks got in almost every game last year.

In 2018 as Edelman's replacement, I would.


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