Spermoff: most overrated player in NFL history

[Hardcore troubadour 12,625]

Herman Moore is "some other talent" now? Goodness gracious.

[Bier Meister 1,513]

I did, TT was phenomenal.. My favorite wishbone ever to watch though, was Switzer's '84 bunch and Jamelle Holieway - damn that was good football.

 

tillman/dupree

[Bier Meister 1,513]

Herman Moore is "some other talent" now? Goodness gracious.

 

loved herman moore....very talented. in fact, i might take him over irvin.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,625]

 

loved herman moore....very talented. in fact, i might take him over irvin.

Well, he's definetly a good deal more than "some other talent", but the "woe is Barry" legend must live on.

[Bier Meister 1,513]

Well, he's definetly a good deal more than "some other talent", but the "woe is Barry" legend must live on.

 

 

i think you misinterpreted my use of "some other talent." it was a statement that he actually received support.

[vuduchile 1,941]

BO? As in BO Jackson? The best ATHLETE of the last 100 years? That BO? Cause if so you are focking insane.

Case in point.

 

People remember 4-5 highlight reel runs that showed some real speed and strength.

 

But, what did he really accomplish as a football player?

 

1 pro bowl

1 playoff game.

Never broke 1000 yards, most years put up around 5-600 yards total.

6 TDs was his highest season total.

 

Great athlete, and potential, but highly overrated based on actual results.

[vuduchile 1,941]

 

tillman/dupree

Good stuff. Dupree is the poster boy for unrealized potential.

[Gladiators 1,904]

Kaepernick

[Bier Meister 1,513]

Case in point.

 

People remember 4-5 highlight reel runs that showed some real speed and strength.

 

But, what did he really accomplish as a football player?

 

1 pro bowl

1 playoff game.

Never broke 1000 yards, most years put up around 5-600 yards total.

6 TDs was his highest season total.

 

Great athlete, and potential, but highly overrated based on actual results.

well, he was playing baseball and sharing time

 

in 87 he started with the raiders in november and amassed 554 rushing yds/ 6.8 ypc

88: mid october for 580/4.3

89: mid october 950/5.5

90: 10/21 700/5.6

 

he was an excellent rb in the nfl

[Mungwater 588]

well, he was playing baseball and sharing time

 

in 87 he started with the raiders in november and amassed 554 rushing yds/ 6.8 ypc

88: mid october for 580/4.3

89: mid october 950/5.5

90: 10/21 700/5.6

 

he was an excellent rb in the nfl

If he played football full time and with even that, didn't get hurt, he's in the talk for one of the best all time. Dude had it all

[vuduchile 1,941]

If he played football full time and with even that, didn't get hurt, he's in the talk for one of the best all time. Dude had it all

This is partially my point. His reputation is based more on what he COULD have done instead of what he did.

[Thornton Melon 544]

This is partially my point. His reputation is based more on what he COULD have done instead of what he did.

The point is he was still a great football player, and not even close to the most overrated ever.

[Gladiators 1,904]

The point is he was still a great football player, and not even close to the most overrated ever.

I do think that much of what is talked about is "what could have been?" However, I agree that doesn't make him overrated. Can't say I've read/heard a discussion in which he was named as a top 10 RB of all time. Potential to be, absolutely.

[vuduchile 1,941]

The point is he was still a great football player, and not even close to the most overrated ever.

Bos best season in 1989: 950 yards and 4 touchdowns in 11 games.

 

His career rushing yards per game is 73.2. He doesn't even break the top 25.

 

Guys like Clinton Portis, Billy Sims, Jamal Lewis, Fred Taylor, Corey Dillon, George Rogers and Shaun Alexander all performed better on a per game basis. Several of these guys had their careers cut short due to injury just like Bo.

 

He was good, but not great.

[Bier Meister 1,513]

Bos best season in 1989: 950 yards and 4 touchdowns in 11 games.

 

His career rushing yards per game is 73.2. He doesn't even break the top 25.

 

Guys like Clinton Portis, Billy Sims, Jamal Lewis, Fred Taylor, Corey Dillon, George Rogers and Shaun Alexander all performed better on a per game basis. Several of these guys had their careers cut short due to injury just like Bo.

 

He was good, but not great.

 

 

he was sharing carries with marcus allen. there were very few rbbc at the time. for not getting the lions share of carries, that is a pretty decent ypg.

[vuduchile 1,941]

 

 

he was sharing carries with marcus allen. there were very few rbbc at the time. for not getting the lions share of carries, that is a pretty decent ypg.

Fair point.

 

Allen only averaged 55.

[Bier Meister 1,513]

sharing carries at 73/g = 1100 yds/season for his career. as is pretty good for getting less than 50%. I haven't played what if with him yet, but let's say he gets 60-70%. his ypc should go down a little, but total yards increase. also, he had breakaway speed (long rushes and tds). just with volume of carries he would likely break off more long runs.

[Cloaca du jour 2,064]

Rory Mcilroy

[SaintsInDome2006 128]

Come on about Broadway Joe, the guy changed the passing game in the NFL.

[SaintsInDome2006 128]

Rory Mcilroy

With the Irish, always a little exaggeration.

[tubby_mcgee 686]

 

 

he was ripping off 200 yd games in losing efforts.

 

 

That's the key phrase. "Losing efforts". That's what he did. Set his team up to lose with his negative runs. He was very successful at it, I might add.

[SaintsInDome2006 128]

Case in point.

 

People remember 4-5 highlight reel runs that showed some real speed and strength.

 

But, what did he really accomplish as a football player?

 

1 pro bowl

1 playoff game.

Never broke 1000 yards, most years put up around 5-600 yards total.

6 TDs was his highest season total.

 

Great athlete, and potential, but highly overrated based on actual results.

He was also splitting seasons between 2 sports.

[tubby_mcgee 686]

Also, the "Line" thing. None of his line was anything until Emmitt got there. ZERO pro bowls.

Also, you can see it now with Elliot.

No one wants to give skill players on America's Team any credit. They will GLADLY give the credit to a non-glorious group of postions----"The line" (Also, many are bitter that Dallas is "America's Team". They will even go out of their way to specifically search for links showing that Dallas isn't).

Dallas will NEVER have a great runner. When they do, it will "the line". Retards always fall back on what they hear others say "Uhh...the line...yeah...the line, that's it! "

[SaintsInDome2006 128]

I can think of many RB's that, their prime vs Barry Sanders' prime I would take over him.

Ladanian

Terrell Davis

Tony Dorsett

Eric Dickerson

Earl Campbell

Emmitt

Thurman Thomas

Adrian Peterson

Walter Payton

That's off the top of my head. I'm sure there are more

I think Dorssett might be on the list of most overrated.

 

Every one of those guys besides him you could put on a bad team and they would still be GREAT and maybe carry that team. I think all of them did at some point except Dorsett. Dorsett was very good and fast, but put him on the 1977 or 1980 Saints and you'd have a guy getting under 1000 yards. He was a product of great lines and a great system.

[tanatastic 2,061]

Agree with Bo, everyone coming up with excuses. Well, that’s the point, the great players don’t need excuses. His legend is built more around coulda shouldas than actual performance. If he did this and if he had that, if he didn’t do this and such. Talented guy, but you have to do it to have done it and he didn’t do it.

[Bier Meister 1,513]

Also, the "Line" thing. None of his line was anything until Emmitt got there. ZERO pro bowls.

 

Also, you can see it now with Elliot.

 

No one wants to give skill players on America's Team any credit. They will GLADLY give the credit to a non-glorious group of postions----"The line" (Also, many are bitter that Dallas is "America's Team". They will even go out of their way to specifically search for links showing that Dallas isn't).

 

Dallas will NEVER have a great runner. When they do, it will "the line". Retards always fall back on what they hear others say "Uhh...the line...yeah...the line, that's it! "

 

 

tubby- i am sorry that you do not understand football, or how important the offensive line is for the team.

 

that line was there prior to zeke (who is doing an excellent job) and produced 1500 yds for jones/murray; 1100 in 14 for murray; 1800 for murray; 1100 in less than 10 for mcfadden; then 1600 for elliot.

 

the rbs all have had talent, but that line makes it a lot easier. it takes more than 1 running back for a team to win in the nfl. barry's team were bad.

 

schilling played well in philly but the team had was not good. both player and teams does well with supporting casts.

[BunnysBastatrds 1,913]

Deion Sanders

This

[Bier Meister 1,513]

dallas built a great dynasty, but for kicks....

 

87: walker and dorsett combined for 1300 in a 7-8 season

88: walker for 1500, team went 3-13

89: 1-15; everyone's stats suffered

90: 7-9; the pieces are starting to come together.... smith for 900

91: emmitt and irvin each get 1500

 

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/cowboys/2013/12/03/great-wall-of-dallas-erik-williams-mark-tuinei-nate-newton-mark-stepnoski/3859515/

 

 

The 1990s Dallas Cowboys are synonymous with three Super Bowls titles, owner Jerry Jones, coach Jimmy Johnson and "The Triplets" — Hall of Famers Troy Aikman, Michael Irvin and Emmitt Smith. But much of their collective success can be credited to a spectacular, if volatile, group of blockers.

This edition of A Football Life focuses on former Dallas tackles Mark Tuinei and Erik Williams and interior linemen Mark Stepnoski, Nate Newton, John Gesek and Kevin Gogan. (Hall of Famer Larry Allen, who joined the Cowboys in 1994, is a footnote to this story even though some regard him as the best guard in NFL history.)

Despite disparate personalities and an apparent lack of obvious talent — none of the six featured players was drafted before the third round (Tuinei and Newton not at all) — the group coalesced into one of the best lines ever, launching the team to three titles between 1992 and 1995 and Smith onto his path as the NFL's career rushing leader. He mentioned all six by name in his 2010 Hall of Fame induction speech and said Tuinei was the best he ever ran behind.

Smith also lauded the line for setting the second-half tone in Super Bowl XXVIII vs. the Buffalo Bills, who led after two quarters of the title rematch following the 1993 season.

"That right there was the defining moment in that Super Bowl," Smith, the game's MVP, said of the six running plays the Cowboys used out of the post-halftime chute to stage their comeback while demoralizing Buffalo's defensive line.

It was probably the apex for The Great Wall of Dallas. The first onset of NFL free agency, Williams' injury and the lack of discipline in the post-Johnson years slowly degraded it from there.

But they leave a lasting and celebrated on-field legacy other quietly accomplished O-lines can only dream of.

"It is a motley crew on paper," Boys Will Be Boys author Jeff Pearlman says.

"But when you put them together, and you put them on the biggest stage in football, they were just perfect. The right unit at the right time for the right team."

[listen2me 23 1,541]

I love the Smiff backers. Pretty much all Cowboys fans and HT who claims to not be a Dallas fan.

 

Love the reasons. "oh look at that game he hurt his shoulder!" "oh man he was great in HS and College!" "he could block!"

 

Put Hines Ward down as one of the best WRs ever using that logic. Not all WRs can block or are willing. And about 99% not as good as he did it. It much put him up there and HOF worthy....that blocking.

 

Smiff was damn good and tough as hell. But anyone with a pair of eyes can see the pure talent difference in Barry and Smiff. When the Smiff backers bring up everything but you know....running.....you know you have some reaching going on.

 

Barry only took the sad Lions to the NFC championship. You know the furthest they have ever got as a franchise in the SB era. When they trashed the Cowboys and SMiff. Only won the division twice when the LIons have only done it 3 times his their history. But yea Barry isn't a winner. It is his fault he was on a laughing stock of a franchise and didn't end up on a team with a HOF QB, HOF WR, and what is said to be one of the very best olines in the history of the NFL. Yeah Barry did nothing. Only gave the Lions their only decent success in the last 50 years. Yup not a winner.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,625]

I love the Smiff backers. Pretty much all Cowboys fans and HT who claims to not be a Dallas fan.

 

Love the reasons. "oh look at that game he hurt his shoulder!" "oh man he was great in HS and College!" "he could block!"

 

Put Hines Ward down as one of the best WRs ever using that logic. Not all WRs can block or are willing. And about 99% not as good as he did it. It much put him up there and HOF worthy....that blocking.

 

Smiff was damn good and tough as hell. But anyone with a pair of eyes can see the pure talent difference in Barry and Smiff. When the Smiff backers bring up everything but you know....running.....you know you have some reaching going on.

 

Barry only took the sad Lions to the NFC championship. You know the furthest they have ever got as a franchise in the SB era. When they trashed the Cowboys and SMiff. Only won the division twice when the LIons have only done it 3 times his their history. But yea Barry isn't a winner. It is his fault he was on a laughing stock of a franchise and didn't end up on a team with a HOF QB, HOF WR, and what is said to be one of the very best olines in the history of the NFL. Yeah Barry did nothing. Only gave the Lions their only decent success in the last 50 years. Yup not a winner.

You think I'm a Dallas fan because I think ES is better than Barry? Lol.

[listen2me 23 1,541]

You think I'm a Dallas fan because I think ES is better than Barry? Lol.

I've thought you were RP the Dallas fan long before this conversation. Point is basically only Dallas fans are chiming in for Smiff. Including yourself.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,625]

I've thought you were RP the Dallas fan long before this conversation. Point is basically only Dallas fans are chiming in for Smiff. Including yourself.

Funny. Anyway, let me ask you a real football question. If your team had a late lead, and was in the 4 minute offense trying to pick up a couple of first downs and kill the clock, would you want Barry or Emmitt toting the rock, regardless of the offensive line?

[listen2me 23 1,541]

Like I said earlier, to me, Barry is like the Randy Moss of the RB position as far as on the field abilities. Emmitt Smith isn't the Jerry Rice, or at least in most people's opinion.

 

Moss wasn't a bad route runner. But he pretty much refused to go over the middle. He was far from a great route runner. But he is still probably the most feared WR ever to line up against. He still did things no one had ever done. He was a highlight reel. He is similar to Barry in that way. Then throw in the fact Barry was probably a better teammate and for sure a harder worker who may have no won a SB but wanted to win first and foremost. He has said to have declined to stay in the game numerous times and pass up a benchmark or record. He had at the time the best college year of all time.

 

If you want to say you would rather have Emmitt than Barry on your team go for it. Some like it hot some like it cold..

[listen2me 23 1,541]

Funny. Anyway, let me ask you a real football question. If your team had a late lead, and was in the 4 minute offense trying to pick up a couple of first downs and kill the clock, would you want Barry or Emmitt toting the rock, regardless of the offensive line?

 

Not sure. Both fumbled about at the same rate, Barry actually fractionally less often. You guys act like Barry is dumb and all for himself that he just used to run backwards in obvious moments where they needed to kill clock and pick up a first down. Did he try to hit the home run often throughout much of the game? Sure, and he was focking amazing at it. But you guys are being waaaaaaaay over the top like he was a character that had no idea what he was doing out there but just ran around and tried to play streetball. I get it, we get it, sometimes he would lose yards trying to bounce it out for a bigger play. Yeah and he also ran it through the tackles with full steam until he reached the secondary. You guys are acting like he was a harlem globetrotter.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,625]

 

Not sure. Both fumbled about at the same rate, Barry actually fractionally less often. You guys act like Barry is dumb and all for himself that he just used to run backwards in obvious moments where they needed to kill clock and pick up a first down. Did he try to hit the home run often throughout much of the game? Sure, and he was focking amazing at it. But you guys are being waaaaaaaay over the top like he was a character that had no idea what he was doing out there but just ran around and tried to play streetball. I get it, we get it, sometimes he would lose yards trying to bounce it out for a bigger play. Yeah and he also ran it through the tackles with full steam until he reached the secondary. You guys are acting like he was a harlem globetrotter.

 

Just think Emmits style leads to more victories than Barry's. That's all. And I think if you think I'm RP you're an idiot.

[listen2me 23 1,541]

Just think Emmits style leads to more victories than Barry's. That's all. And I think if you think I'm RP you're an idiot.

If it is 3rd and 2 to ice the game give me Smith. If it is 3rd and 7 to ice the game give me Barry. I don't see the point in the question?

 

Would you rather have had LeSean McCoy or Marshawn Lynch for 3rd and 2? How about 3rd and 7? To fall forward for an inch? Okay now who is the better back based on that data.

 

If determining who the better RB is by who you would want 3rd and 2 then crown Smith's ass. Superb skillset, most talented back to ever grace the field.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,625]

If it is 3rd and 2 to ice the game give me Smith. If it is 3rd and 7 to ice the game give me Barry. I don't see the point in the question?

 

Would you rather have had LeSean McCoy or Marshawn Lynch for 3rd and 2? How about 3rd and 7? To fall forward for an inch? Okay now who is the better back based on that data.

 

If determining who the better RB is by who you would want 3rd and 2 then crown Smith's ass. Superb skillset, most talented back to ever grace the field.

The point is I have a lot better shot of not being in 3 and 7 if ES starts the drive vs Barry.

[listen2me 23 1,541]

The point is I have a lot better shot of not being in 3 and 7 if ES starts the drive vs Barry.

 

 

Yeah better shot at leaving yourself 3rd and 2. Seeing how he averaged 4.2 ypc and all. Barry probably a better shot at picking it up in 2, ya know with his 5.0 ypc.

 

Dats how the maffs works out neway

[wiffleball 4,638]

I'm not reading all of this, but I'm hoping somebody has already mentioned Jim McMahon. Good God that guy is overrated. Super Bowl winning quarterback my ass. He's more of a witness than anything else. He had a monster defense and Walter Payton for Christ's sake. Not to mention Willie Gault. But he had maybe one good year and even then it sure as hell wasn't because of him.

[wiffleball 4,638]

Come to think of it, Jim McMahon is like Jay Mohr. Sure, he might have been in a couple really good movies, but they sure as hell weren't good movies because he was lucky enough to be in them.