UPDATE: Ezekiel Elliot saga continues - Suspension back on

[seafoam1 1,878]

 

dak wasn't dominant--he was serviceable with flashes of excellence, so long as zeke was there to carry the load.

 

without zeke, he looks lost on the field. he's consistently making poor decisions and playing hesitantly. these are correctable problems, but they would be less developed had he spent time learning behind romo.

Sounds like you are describing elliott off the field. Cowboys will go nowhere even when they are both playing again. They had a great o-line and still couldn't get it done. A running back can never carry a team. Only compliment one.

[Cruzer 1,992]

Not what I'm seeing. I see a guy who cant play that well in then pocket. Russell Wilson isn't so great in there either, but he's quicker and shiftier than Dak

Russell Wilson has a staff that understands that his mobility is an asset - and they game plan it.... Dak is plenty good enough to win, even great at times - if/when the machine around him is clicking.

 

When Dak is forced to run for his life and throw it 45 times a game, he's not good.

[Cruzer 1,992]

And........................................it's started, the mutiny is underway.

 

According to NFL Network's Ian Rapoport, the players are growing frustrated about the team's lack of adjustments and simple game plan.

[jgcrawfish 232]

I wouldn't be that quick to write off Dak. But Ginger does have issues adjusting to game flow, and I think he hasn't done a real good job putting Dak in a position to be successful. I think it goes back to the offensive line more than just the loss of Zeke for the suspension. Leary and Free leaving takes away a lot of the continuity they had going. Throw in Tyron getting hurt and having to start much lesser quality players, it has taken away the threat of the running game. Teams are scheming to make Dak a pocket passer and have learned he's less accurate on the run that advertised. Add to it the defense that looks epic bad and it's putting too much pressure on a young QB who wasn't quite ready for it.

[Skinny_Bastard 154]

This Elliott dude is the offense. He is the engine that powers this offense.

[sirensong 111]

Leary and Free leaving takes away a lot of the continuity they had going.

 

that's not an excuse for an OL that has more draft capital and cap space invested than any other. tyron is the 4th highest paid LT. la'el is the 4th highest paid RT. frederick is the 2nd highest paid C. martin is arguably the best G in the league, and will be the 4th top-5 contract on the line next season.

 

and yet...

 

if DAL can't count on that OL with the ginormous investment devoted to it, what can they count on?

[Cruzer 1,992]

McClay leads a collegiate scouting team that was overruled by Garrett on draft day. Once Takk McKinley was stolen by Atlanta, rumor has it McClay’s scouting department — based on the template provided by Marinelli — identified Wisconsin’s T.J. Watt as the next best defensive end prospect. Garrett pounded the table for Taco Charlton.

 

Wasn't aware of this, but not surprised...... Gawd help this team if McClay walks out the door.

[TimmySmith 2,782]

Cowboys are one of a handful of teams built for the running game. Defenses are built for the passing game. A perfect storm when your RB is out. They are basically a 3-13 team without Zeke.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,588]

McClay leads a collegiate scouting team that was overruled by Garrett on draft day. Once Takk McKinley was stolen by Atlanta, rumor has it McClays scouting department based on the template provided by Marinelli identified Wisconsins T.J. Watt as the next best defensive end prospect. Garrett pounded the table for Taco Charlton.

 

Wasn't aware of this, but not surprised...... Gawd help this team if McClay walks out the door.

The Giants will be looking for a new GM and director of scouting. God willing.

[Cruzer 1,992]

Cowboys are one of a handful of teams built for the running game. Defenses are built for the passing game. A perfect storm when your RB is out. They are basically a 3-13 team without Zeke.

I still don't understand - how a team with this much capital invested in its line (as song pointed out) - can't still run the ball and be productive w/out Zeke.

 

Maybe it's a collection of storms.. Maybe it's a combo of Tyron being hurt, Collins at RT and the catastrophe of Copper/Green at LG that has this line in disarray. Maybe it's an overall blocking philosophy - idk.

[Cruzer 1,992]

The Giants will be looking for a new GM and director of scouting. God willing.

Garrett is one of nine head coaches who have had their job since the start of 2011: Six have won Super Bowls and a seventh (Carolina's Ron Rivera) made a SB.

 

The other two are Garrett and Marvin Lewis...............it's time.

 

 

But the new HC needs to have the authority to bring his own people in.... Jerry telling the new HC who his coordinators will be is focking moronic.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,588]

Giants/Cowboys flexed out of national game for Seahawks/Jags. What a year. Not in a good way for the NFL.

[seafoam1 1,878]

Giants/Cowboys flexed out of national game for Seahawks/Jags. What a year. Not in a good way for the NFL.

I would totally rather watch Seahawks/Jags game simply from wanting to see a better game. Sounds like the NFL is doing ok. Isn't this what we all prefer? A better national game?

[jgcrawfish 232]

Garrett is one of nine head coaches who have had their job since the start of 2011: Six have won Super Bowls and a seventh (Carolina's Ron Rivera) made a SB.

 

The other two are Garrett and Marvin Lewis...............it's time.

 

But the new HC needs to have the authority to bring his own people in.... Jerry telling the new HC who his coordinators will be is focking moronic.

Wow, that's actually pretty damning, because as a Steelers fan, I LOVE Marvin Lewis. Despite a team loaded with talent he always seems to underachieve and chokes in the playoffs...wait a second...that sounds like the other guy on your list too! In fact, both teams seem to love sketchy character guys as well.

 

In all seriousness, I'm not sure what Garrett has done to earn the cache he has with Jerry Jones. I'm critical of Tomlin because of his poor clock management skills and propensity to make some pretty bone headed decisions. But the reality is the guy has a superbowl under his belt and his team is a perennial playoff participant. Not at all sure what Garrett has done to have the job security that he currently enjoys.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,588]

I would totally rather watch Seahawks/Jags game simply from wanting to see a better game. Sounds like the NFL is doing ok. Isn't this what we all prefer? A better national game?

The ratings for a meaningful Cowboys/Giants game would crush Jags/Hawks

[Cruzer 1,992]

In all seriousness, I'm not sure what Garrett has done to earn the cache he has with Jerry Jones.

Actually - I totally understand why Jerry loves Garrett.

 

What I don't understand is the love the Red gets from his legion of followers. His cheer camp is strong - or was shall I say... The lovefest with JG is on the skids - I just can't believe it took this long for them to figure it out. They must not watch the games.

[seafoam1 1,878]

The ratings for a meaningful Cowboys/Giants game would crush Jags/Hawks

I get it they have bigger markets, but as a football fan I appreciate the league not subjecting the nation in mass to that crap. Good football can only help build the product as opposed to bad football.

[weepaws 2,452]

I still don't understand - how a team with this much capital invested in its line (as song pointed out) - can't still run the ball and be productive w/out Zeke.

 

Maybe it's a collection of storms.. Maybe it's a combo of Tyron being hurt, Collins at RT and the catastrophe of Copper/Green at LG that has this line in disarray. Maybe it's an overall blocking philosophy - idk.

The Zeke is the reason.

[seafoam1 1,878]

The Zeke is the reason.

1 Peter 3:9

[sirensong 111]

McClay leads a collegiate scouting team that was overruled by Garrett on draft day. Once Takk McKinley was stolen by Atlanta, rumor has it McClay’s scouting department — based on the template provided by Marinelli — identified Wisconsin’s T.J. Watt as the next best defensive end prospect. Garrett pounded the table for Taco Charlton.

 

Wasn't aware of this, but not surprised...... Gawd help this team if McClay walks out the door.

 

my jaw hit the floor when i read that earlier today. that was exactly--exactly--the kind of situation that mcclay's position was created in order to prevent, and he specifically designed the procedures to get the scouts and the coaches on the same page. if he's getting overruled, that's seriously bad mojo in the FO.

[jgcrawfish 232]

 

my jaw hit the floor when i read that earlier today. that was exactly--exactly--the kind of situation that mcclay's position was created in order to prevent, and he specifically designed the procedures to get the scouts and the coaches on the same page. if he's getting overruled, that's seriously bad mojo in the FO.

Again, as a Steelers fan, we'd like to thank JG for the gift of TJ Watt.

[thePRO 78]

On the Dallas boards, fans keep saying Watt wouldn't be the same on our defense and he doesn't fit our scheme. I'm a Cowboys fan and the way I see it is that Watt is a versatile defender and I think he's the type that finds a way to make plays in whatever position he's played at.

 

Maybe he wouldn't do as well, but he'd be making more friggin plays than Taco.

[jgcrawfish 232]

On the Dallas boards, fans keep saying Watt wouldn't be the same on our defense and he doesn't fit our scheme. I'm a Cowboys fan and the way I see it is that Watt is a versatile defender and I think he's the type that finds a way to make plays in whatever position he's played at.

 

Maybe he wouldn't do as well, but he'd be making more friggin plays than Taco.

The guy has a tremendous motor. TJ made a sack last week where he dropped into coverage on a zone blitz. Backpedaled 10 yrds off the line, then noticed Hundley getting flushed from the pocket and about to run. Motored in and dropped Hundley for a slight loss. Probably should have gotten a helmet-to-helmet penalty but it wasn't his fault Hundley tried to spin and left his head out there sideways. He's made a couple of spectacular plays that showcased his former life as a TE. Getting very high off the ground to grab an INT with one hand. He's not as big or powerful as JJ, but he's rangier and better athlete and fit's the scheme of the Steelers 3-4 base pretty well. He'd only been a college LB for 18 months before being drafted, so the dude is still learning. I'm not saying Taco won't pan out, but TJ is in the defensive rookie of the year conversation. Big miss on Dallas's part.

[sirensong 111]

The guy has a tremendous motor. TJ made a sack last week where he dropped into coverage on a zone blitz. Backpedaled 10 yrds off the line, then noticed Hundley getting flushed from the pocket and about to run. Motored in and dropped Hundley for a slight loss. Probably should have gotten a helmet-to-helmet penalty but it wasn't his fault Hundley tried to spin and left his head out there sideways. He's made a couple of spectacular plays that showcased his former life as a TE. Getting very high off the ground to grab an INT with one hand. He's not as big or powerful as JJ, but he's rangier and better athlete and fit's the scheme of the Steelers 3-4 base pretty well. He'd only been a college LB for 18 months before being drafted, so the dude is still learning. I'm not saying Taco won't pan out, but TJ is in the defensive rookie of the year conversation. Big miss on Dallas's part.

 

i'd be perfectly fine if he just played situational pass rusher. it'd be a waste of his talent, sure, but i suspect he would impact the game a lot more than taco will. he has demarcus ware-type athletic qualities about him. instead, we got a dude with length.

 

if this turns out to be true, i'm going to flip into rage mode. not just the one player call (bad as that is), but discarding the whole system that has been set up.

[Oriole8159 86]

 

i'd be perfectly fine if he just played situational pass rusher. it'd be a waste of his talent, sure, but i suspect he would impact the game a lot more than taco will. he has demarcus ware-type athletic qualities about him. instead, we got a dude with length.

 

if this turns out to be true, i'm going to flip into rage mode. not just the one player call (bad as that is), but discarding the whole system that has been set up.

sounds reminiscent of when my Vikes took the "athletic upside" of Dimitrius Underwood instead of the more obvious Patrick Kerney, who went the next pick.

Kerney goes to multiple pro bowls and Underwood goes mental.

[jgcrawfish 232]

 

i'd be perfectly fine if he just played situational pass rusher. it'd be a waste of his talent, sure, but i suspect he would impact the game a lot more than taco will. he has demarcus ware-type athletic qualities about him. instead, we got a dude with length.

 

if this turns out to be true, i'm going to flip into rage mode. not just the one player call (bad as that is), but discarding the whole system that has been set up.

I was listening to a radio show yesterday and they were saying that in the NFL, you never want to be in the middle. You either want to be bad so you can rebuilt, or good because you've already rebuilt. I don't know if I believe that. The Steelers, Patriots, Packers, etc don't hit on every draft pick...but they hit on more than they miss on. Those teams consistently draft from the end of the draft and yet find talent that tilts the balance toward them. Stability and a franchise QB helps a lot, but the bottom line is they keep finding quality players that help regardless of their draft spot. I'm not sure the Cowboys can say that, and things like the story about not taking Watt kind of highlight that. Now, I will say it's way too early to get final judgement on Watt being better than Taco, because sometimes it takes guys a year or two to really find their spot in the system they're in. Watt is a pretty quick study and was put into a system that was similar to what he played in during college.

[Oriole8159 86]

I was listening to a radio show yesterday and they were saying that in the NFL, you never want to be in the middle. You either want to be bad so you can rebuilt, or good because you've already rebuilt. I don't know if I believe that. The Steelers, Patriots, Packers, etc don't hit on every draft pick...but they hit on more than they miss on. Those teams consistently draft from the end of the draft and yet find talent that tilts the balance toward them. Stability and a franchise QB helps a lot, but the bottom line is they keep finding quality players that help regardless of their draft spot. I'm not sure the Cowboys can say that, and things like the story about not taking Watt kind of highlight that. Now, I will say it's way too early to get final judgement on Watt being better than Taco, because sometimes it takes guys a year or two to really find their spot in the system they're in. Watt is a pretty quick study and was put into a system that was similar to what he played in during college.

I think that philosophy is more conducive to basketball, where one singular player can literally turn around a franchise.

In football, there's 53 players on the roster, 22 starters, so no one singular player will make a team an immediate super bowl contender. Just look at Andrew Luck, a supposed once in a generation talent, but even when healthy, he couldn't get them to be more than just a flash in the pan playoff team at best because the rest of the team was mediocre.

 

There will always be players at every draft spot that can become contributors if you have the right system and you have good coaches.

[jgcrawfish 232]

I think that philosophy is more conducive to basketball, where one singular player can literally turn around a franchise.

In football, there's 53 players on the roster, 22 starters, so no one singular player will make a team an immediate super bowl contender. Just look at Andrew Luck, a supposed once in a generation talent, but even when healthy, he couldn't get them to be more than just a flash in the pan playoff team at best because the rest of the team was mediocre.

 

There will always be players at every draft spot that can become contributors if you have the right system and you have good coaches.

Eh, i think the QB spot is the one that's different. It has the potential to change a franchise fortunes. The Colts are competitive with Luck, but sh!t without him. I look at Brady and Rodgers and those guys are SB threats every year because of those guys. Even as 1 of 22, they are that good. But my point was more along the lines of good teams find players who are good fit for their system regardless of where, and even to an extent, who they draft. It's too early to judge TJ Watt a better pick than Taco Charlton, only time will make that determination. But track record-wise the Steelers are more likely to hit on that pick than the Cowboys are on theirs because of the system. (Which is odd because typically the Steelers don't start rookies, in fact they barely hit the field. But they've changed that with Watt, Sean Davis (not technically a rookie but was inj last year) and JuJu Smith-Schuster.) Dallas has had obvious good success with picks like Zeke, Dak and Tyron Smith. What you don't see is them getting later round guys who contribute.

[Oriole8159 86]

Eh, i think the QB spot is the one that's different. It has the potential to change a franchise fortunes. The Colts are competitive with Luck, but sh!t without him. I look at Brady and Rodgers and those guys are SB threats every year because of those guys. Even as 1 of 22, they are that good. But my point was more along the lines of good teams find players who are good fit for their system regardless of where, and even to an extent, who they draft. It's too early to judge TJ Watt a better pick than Taco Charlton, only time will make that determination. But track record-wise the Steelers are more likely to hit on that pick than the Cowboys are on theirs because of the system. (Which is odd because typically the Steelers don't start rookies, in fact they barely hit the field. But they've changed that with Watt, Sean Davis (not technically a rookie but was inj last year) and JuJu Smith-Schuster.) Dallas has had obvious good success with picks like Zeke, Dak and Tyron Smith. What you don't see is them getting later round guys who contribute.

yeah but neither of those QBs were even close to the #1 pick though, which is specifically relevant in regards to this really bad vs middle of the road debate.

 

Rodgers was #24, Brady was #199.

Eli may have been #1, but Big Ben went 11 that year and has been better.

SB winner Joe Flacco was #18.

SB winner Russell Wilson was a 3rd rd pick.

Drew Brees was top of the 2nd rd.

SB Winner Kurt Warner was undrafted

 

And just look at some comparisons over the past few years....

Watson was the 3rd QB taken this year

Prescott was a 4th rd pick last yr

Derek Carr was a 2nd rd pick, and the 4th taken in his draft class

Kirk Cousins was a 4th rd pick

 

Having a true QB is absolutely a franchise changer, but the QBs that are truly leading championship teams are not the ones that teams have had to tank for is my point.

 

It's so much more than that, unlike in the NBA (or at least where the NBA is headed) where you must have multiple Top 3-5 picks and that all hit their peak, in order to even remotely be considered a contender.

[sirensong 111]

I was listening to a radio show yesterday and they were saying that in the NFL, you never want to be in the middle. You either want to be bad so you can rebuilt, or good because you've already rebuilt. I don't know if I believe that. The Steelers, Patriots, Packers, etc don't hit on every draft pick...but they hit on more than they miss on. Those teams consistently draft from the end of the draft and yet find talent that tilts the balance toward them. Stability and a franchise QB helps a lot, but the bottom line is they keep finding quality players that help regardless of their draft spot. I'm not sure the Cowboys can say that, and things like the story about not taking Watt kind of highlight that. Now, I will say it's way too early to get final judgement on Watt being better than Taco, because sometimes it takes guys a year or two to really find their spot in the system they're in. Watt is a pretty quick study and was put into a system that was similar to what he played in during college.

 

they absolutely can't. the picks that they've hit on have almost all been top-half, where the odds are much better. their low 1st rounders are spotty: dez (falling player), frederick (home run), byron (meh), taco (weak so far). correcting for recency bias, the later rounds have also been very weak (though better since mcclay).

 

re: watt vs. taco, you're right that it's early, but it isn't too early to give a player the eye test: does the guy flash any serious ability? watt has done so repeatedly, in various ways. although taco's technique is improving, he has yet to flash 1st round talent in any way. where he is right now would be acceptable in a 4th rounder, not the 27th pick (bracketed by takk and watt--both starters who are producing).

[Gepetto 979]

Taco over Watt was a bad pick, I can tell already.

[Beyond Chaos 75]

Hindsight's 20/20. Watt's knee injury history/surgery was a concern for many teams in the draft. As a Steelers fan, I thought they may have reached for him a bit in the first round considering this, but I also don't believe he would have been there for their next pick. So far their gamble looks like it has paid off.

[Oriole8159 86]

 

they absolutely can't. the picks that they've hit on have almost all been top-half, where the odds are much better. their low 1st rounders are spotty: dez (falling player), frederick (home run), byron (meh), taco (weak so far). correcting for recency bias, the later rounds have also been very weak (though better since mcclay).

 

re: watt vs. taco, you're right that it's early, but it isn't too early to give a player the eye test: does the guy flash any serious ability? watt has done so repeatedly, in various ways. although taco's technique is improving, he has yet to flash 1st round talent in any way. where he is right now would be acceptable in a 4th rounder, not the 27th pick (bracketed by takk and watt--both starters who are producing).

I never liked the Frederick pick, even though he's the best center in the league.

I didn't like that they moved down so far in such a top heavy draft, and got very little in return.

 

They originally had the 18th pick and let SF move up from 31 so they could take Eric Reid. Dal only received a 3rd rd pick, which eventually became Terrence Williams, who isn't a bust, but barely above replacement level in my opinion. Not worth it.

In addition to passing on Reid, who is now a pro bowler, they also lost out on Justin Pugh, Kyle Long, Tyler Eifert, Desmond Trufant, Xavier Rhodes, Deandre Hopkins, Sylvester Williams, and Alec Ogletree. Any of those players would be a huge addition to Dallas.

 

And they still probably could have gotten Frederick in the 2nd. He wasn't thought of that highly by most as center was still an undervalued position and they botched their 2nd rd pick on Gavin Escobar. They easily could have walked away from that draft with any of those guys above plus still having a decent shot at Frederick still in the 2nd.

[Gepetto 979]

I never liked the Frederick pick, even though he's the best center in the league.

I didn't like that they moved down so far in such a top heavy draft, and got very little in return.

 

They originally had the 18th pick and let SF move up from 31 so they could take Eric Reid. Dal only received a 3rd rd pick, which eventually became Terrence Williams, who isn't a bust, but barely above replacement level in my opinion. Not worth it.

In addition to passing on Reid, who is now a pro bowler, they also lost out on Justin Pugh, Kyle Long, Tyler Eifert, Desmond Trufant, Xavier Rhodes, Deandre Hopkins, Sylvester Williams, and Alec Ogletree. Any of those players would be a huge addition to Dallas.

 

And they still probably could have gotten Frederick in the 2nd. He wasn't thought of that highly by most as center was still an undervalued position and they botched their 2nd rd pick on Gavin Escobar. They easily could have walked away from that draft with any of those guys above plus still having a decent shot at Frederick still in the 2nd.

I thought at the time the same as you. Good post.