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Pete Carroll arrogance in one paragraph

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http://seattletimes.com/html/seahawks/2025601887_brewer02xml.html

 

 

“It’s not the right matchup for us to run the football,” Carroll said. “So on second down, we throw the ball, really to kind of waste that play. If we score, we do. If we don’t, then we’ll run it on third and fourth down. Really, with no second thoughts or hesitation in that at all.”

 

Could you ever imagine Bill saying we wanted to waste a play in the way to scoring a TD? Like the TD was a foregone conclusion and they could just fock around until they willed it in.

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Half-yard line, Beast Mode in the backfield - it's always the right matchup to run the ball there.

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Bill never says anything

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Half-yard line, Beast Mode in the backfield - it's always the right matchup to run the ball there.

 

Yeah, like what's the worst thing that will happen? Stuffed at the 6 inch mark?

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Worst call ever. Really. Even if it did work....still the worst call ever.

 

Oh well,, that's over. Everyone can go back to their regularly scheduled lives now. Thank goodness.

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Marshawn scores 1 TD in every 5 attempts from the 1 yard line.

This is the first interception from the 1 yd line for anyone in the nfl

Over 100 attempts

 

Stats show it was an understandable call.

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Pete Carroll was hired as the head coach for the New England Patriots in 1997 to win a Super Bowl.

Looks like Pete kept his promise 18 years later.

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Pete Carroll was hired as the head coach for the New England Patriots in 1997 to win a Super Bowl.

Looks like Pete kept his promise 18 years later.

 

:first:

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http://seattletimes.com/html/seahawks/2025601887_brewer02xml.html

 

 

“It’s not the right matchup for us to run the football,” Carroll said. “So on second down, we throw the ball, really to kind of waste that play. If we score, we do. If we don’t, then we’ll run it on third and fourth down. Really, with no second thoughts or hesitation in that at all.”

 

Could you ever imagine Bill saying we wanted to waste a play in the way to scoring a TD? Like the TD was a foregone conclusion and they could just fock around until they willed it in.

 

A poor (strange?) choice of words... But, I doubt he really considers it wasting a play. You have to wonder where the head is at moments after that level of painful loss. You're defending yourself, you OC and team...

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TDs aren't a guarantee especially in the nfl. Lynch might not have made it if he tried 3 times in a row. But when you have a guy who has made a living bulldozing people and has done so all game he is your best chance to score. Take the points and worry about the other team afterwards.

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Marshawn scores 1 TD in every 5 attempts from the 1 yard line.

This is the first interception from the 1 yd line for anyone in the nfl

Over 100 attempts

Stats show it was an understandable call.

I don't think passing there is a bad call. Have Wilson roll out and survey the field. If something opens up, throw it. If it doesn't, throw it into row 12. Or he could run it in too.

 

But with a slant, there's no read. Just get the ball and rip it. Plus, on the GL there's literally like half the defense in the vicinity of the throw. No space down there for a throwing window. No way to throw it low there. Just a weird call.

 

But this is the greatness of the Pats. They don't do sh!t like that. When they lose, it's because they make the other teams beat them. They never beat themselves.

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in the situation, a pass was the right call. you have 3 downs and 1 timeout. a stuffed run play requires the timeout, and means one of the following 2 plays has to be a pass. better to get the pass out of the way first--i suspect that this is what carroll was trying to say.

 

the disaster was the actual play called. instead of play action to an out-breaking receiver, combined with a run/pass option, SEA called a slant out of a stack formation, throwing the ball into the very crowded box (which was the entire justification for passing instead of running).

 

the correct pass would have resulted in a minimal-risk TD or 5 seconds off the clock. instead, the call had the QB throw into all the trash compressed in the middle.

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Marshawn scores 1 TD in every 5 attempts from the 1 yard line.

This is the first interception from the 1 yd line for anyone in the nfl

Over 100 attempts

 

Stats show it was an understandable call.

I can't believe how much convoluted logic I'm seeing about this play. First of all, I don't know where you got the 1 TD in every 5 attempts from the 1. That seems absurd. But here's another stat from Harvard Sports Analysis.... The Pats allowed opponents to score 81% of the time in power situations (runs on 3rd/4th & <2, or w/i 2 yds of goalline). Dead last in NFL. So, even if Lynch only scores in 1 out of every 5 attempts from the 1 on average, his chances go up considerably against the Patriots.

 

So let's say that they run on 2nd down and Lynch gets stopped. There's a much better possibility of him scoring than losing yards so let's just say he gets stopped for no gain. Now lets' say that play burns 6 seconds off the clock before they take their last time out (considering that he's getting stopped for no gain, if would probably take off less than that). They use the timeout and now have 20 seconds. You could go up to the line with a play called for third down and another for fourth down. Even if they run the ball again and Lynch gets stopped, they would still have enough time to line up and get off a fourth down play. Then, and only then, is when they should have called a pass or had Wilson run a bootleg.

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A fade to Matthews on the left side would have been my call. Let him jump for the ball since he's been successful all game doing it

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Per NFL.com: "Carroll, with one remaining timeout, did the math and erred on the side of ensuring a maximum amount of chances to get the ball across the goal line, while limiting the chances that the Pats would have enough time to counter. Carroll saw a front stacked against a power run and a matchup he felt he could exploit with a short route against a rookie corner who had zero career interceptions. And he didn't want to run, get stopped short, burn his final timeout and be boxed into calling a pass on third down. You could run on 2nd down, call timeout, have to throw on third and score, or incompletion and have to choose (run or pass) on the final down."

SO WHAT if he had run Lynch, gotten stopped and had to use the final time-out? You are within the 5-yard line, and would have still had two downs to play. You're obviously in four-down territory, needing a touchdown to win. The strength of Seattle's team is the run. I don't think Seattle had called a designed run for Wilson all game. Go for a fake power rush to the strong-side, and have him hold the ball and do a weak-side rollout.

 

This game is just like the NFC Championship game. The team that lost, lost due to BAD COACHING.

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Yeah, like what's the worst thing that will happen? Stuffed at the 6 inch mark?

3 beast mode's up the gut = quick six

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Marshawn scores 1 TD in every 5 attempts from the 1 yard line.

This is the first interception from the 1 yd line for anyone in the nfl

Over 100 attempts

 

Stats show it was an understandable call.

No one thinks it was the right call. Lol no matter what the past stats say. I'm far from an offensive coordinator and right away I knew something was up. Just a terrible play call ! Almost like they were trying to lose. My son is 11 and he even said when he's playing Madden 15 on his Xbox One and your on the goal line you give it to Beast Mode. Especially with a timeout left ! He said that was stupid ! Lol

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Marshawn scores 1 TD in every 5 attempts from the 1 yard line.

This is the first interception from the 1 yd line for anyone in the nfl

Over 100 attempts

 

Stats show it was an understandable call.

Where did you get 5 carries to get a TD from 1 yd? I would be shocked if that was accurate for lynch let alone for even the worst rbs in the nfl

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Where did you get 5 carries to get a TD from 1 yd? I would be shocked if that was accurate for lynch let alone for even the worst rbs in the nfl

He seen it on a homeless mans sign on Franklin Street.

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From espn article:

 

Among 39 running backs with at least 10 carries from the 1-yard line in the past five seasons (including playoffs), Lynchs touchdown percentage (45 percent) ranks 30th. Also consider that this season, Lynch scored a touchdown on 1-of-5 rushes from the 1-yard line.

 

Also states that teams run inside the 1 yd line 71% of the time and are successful 54%...

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No one thinks it was the right call. Lol no matter what the past stats say. I'm far from an offensive coordinator and right away I knew something was up. Just a terrible play call ! Almost like they were trying to lose. My son is 11 and he even said when he's playing Madden 15 on his Xbox One and your on the goal line you give it to Beast Mode. Especially with a timeout left ! He said that was stupid ! Lol

I can see the logic behind the call. Except for the spot of the pass. With that many defenders in the end zone it's almost suicide to throw it down the seams. Throw a fade route to the outside and let one of your receivers jump for it. If it's incomplete then run it since you still have a time out

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From espn article:

 

Among 39 running backs with at least 10 carries from the 1-yard line in the past five seasons (including playoffs), Lynchs touchdown percentage (45 percent) ranks 30th. Also consider that this season, Lynch scored a touchdown on 1-of-5 rushes from the 1-yard line.

 

Also states that teams run inside the 1 yd line 71% of the time and are successful 54%...

I win again

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I win again

 

Yes, but you're only showing one side of the stats. The fact is that the Patriots were terrible at stopping runs from the 1 yard line. So it's like saying that you should expect Lebron James to score 26.2 points in a game without taking into account that he's playing an 8th grade girls' team.

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Yes, but you're only showing one side of the stats. The fact is that the Patriots were terrible at stopping runs from the 1 yard line. So it's like saying that you should expect Lebron James to score 26.2 points in a game without taking into account that he's playing an 8th grade girls' team.

yet ...my stats were correct.

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Everything about that fing play was wrong. Most everybody knows it. I'm still ticked about it even though I'm proud of our team!

 

-First they bring in WR set instead of goaline. This is after waisting 20-30 seconds of clock. (However, can't fault that because you don't want to give Brady that much time) But, there was lots of time to find a perfect - non risk play)

 

-They decide to pass instead of run based on NE goaline Def. Fail. They are going to have to run on that anyway at some point.

-Then they line up in fing Shotgun - Fail

-Then there is no play action fake to Lynch - Fail (Not to mention some kind of Wilson run with an option to pass, Corner pass.

-Then they throw it over the middle with all that traffic AND pick a 4th-5th WR that is primarily special teams player for many years - Fail

-Pass could have got batted up, off the WR hands, OR exactly what happened. - Fail

-Our best player only needs 1 fing yard and you just waisted 30 seconds. And he just picked up 4 yards before. You had everything going.

-They STILL had a dam TO. You can still run on 3rd down if you really wanted too with a Wilson role out with option to pass. Or 2 plays called.

-Why worry about your downs anyway. Fing score on 2nd down with only 25 seconds left. If no score, maybe it's time to pass anyway. They still won't know what ur doing. You could always run on 4th with the beast and everything on the line with a incomplete pass on 3rd.

They did this fing shotgun BS early in the year too. Instead of just pounding Lynch up the middle or whatever. I remember last year when Lynch flipped off the play call it got so bad. It's a pattern - And it's Bevel!

Agressive is one thing - This was stupid. "Bevel supid"

 

Not to mention they did not utilize the option run all game, throw to the TE again, etc. Bevel sucks sometimes really bad. This should get corrected or move him out. Pretty sure Carroll was protecting him.

I hate to say it, but I do kind of think The MVP had something to do with it. It's almost so stupid it doesn't make sense.
If Lynch gets that - He's MVP. IF Wilson gets it - He's MVP.

They don't fear turnovers - That's great. But, smart play calling or dumb play calling will COST U. And it did. Hope it's a lesson learned.

Big/Hard lesson.

 

I'm still trying to recover clearly. :(

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Playaction bootleg out of a goaline set where he can throw it away if he wants is a better pass call in that situation if you are trying to exploit the pats defensive GL package. I am still absolutely convinced that he sent out 3WR to goad Belicheck into calling a TO. He was then going to a jumbo package for the 3 plays with 2 TO's.

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Playaction bootleg out of a goaline set where he can throw it away if he wants is a better pass call in that situation if you are trying to exploit the pats defensive GL package. I am still absolutely convinced that he sent out 3WR to goad Belicheck into calling a TO. He was then going to a jumbo package for the 3 plays with 2 TO's.

Yep.

They should have just done that jumbo package for the 3 plays, and at some point called for the play action pass/option run out of that set if needed. You dictate the plan, not worry about what Bill thinks or does. If that was the case - Fail again.

 

They had momentum going - The absolute best call was to pound it again that next down. You worry about 3rd and 4th down later after the TO.

Plenty of downs still to try other things or run on 4th.

 

Get the score the safest and best way on 2nd down and with your team muscle/best beast

So sad.

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Yea wtf was Carroll saying with the whole well they had their goal line package in. Who cares!! Put in your goal line package and run the damn ball with Lynch. So stupid.

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Everything about that fing play was wrong. Most everybody knows it. I'm still ticked about it even though I'm proud of our team!

 

-First they bring in WR set instead of goaline. This is after waisting 20-30 seconds of clock. (However, can't fault that because you don't want to give Brady that much time) But, there was lots of time to find a perfect - non risk play)

 

-They decide to pass instead of run based on NE goaline Def. Fail. They are going to have to run on that anyway at some point.

-Then they line up in fing Shotgun - Fail

-Then there is no play action fake to Lynch - Fail (Not to mention some kind of Wilson run with an option to pass, Corner pass.

-Then they throw it over the middle with all that traffic AND pick a 4th-5th WR that is primarily special teams player for many years - Fail

-Pass could have got batted up, off the WR hands, OR exactly what happened. - Fail

-Our best player only needs 1 fing yard and you just waisted 30 seconds. And he just picked up 4 yards before. You had everything going.

-They STILL had a dam TO. You can still run on 3rd down if you really wanted too with a Wilson role out with option to pass. Or 2 plays called.

-Why worry about your downs anyway. Fing score on 2nd down with only 25 seconds left. If no score, maybe it's time to pass anyway. They still won't know what ur doing. You could always run on 4th with the beast and everything on the line with a incomplete pass on 3rd.

 

They did this fing shotgun BS early in the year too. Instead of just pounding Lynch up the middle or whatever. I remember last year when Lynch flipped off the play call it got so bad. It's a pattern - And it's Bevel!

Agressive is one thing - This was stupid. "Bevel supid"

 

Not to mention they did not utilize the option run all game, throw to the TE again, etc. Bevel sucks sometimes really bad. This should get corrected or move him out. Pretty sure Carroll was protecting him.

I hate to say it, but I do kind of think The MVP had something to do with it. It's almost so stupid it doesn't make sense.

If Lynch gets that - He's MVP. IF Wilson gets it - He's MVP.

They don't fear turnovers - That's great. But, smart play calling or dumb play calling will COST U. And it did. Hope it's a lesson learned.

Big/Hard lesson.

 

I'm still trying to recover clearly. :(

 

Well said, Hawkfin. So many reasons not to run that specific play even if they were dead set on passing.

 

If not for the win last year, I'd be on suicide watch. I'm calming down a little bit now. Also, feeling that the Hawks were somewhat gifted the NFCC game makes me a bit less angry after losing in such a ridiculous way in the SB. Sometimes things are going to go against you and they sure did on Sunday.

 

Still, it was a horrible decision and horrible execution. Wilson isn't taking much heat over this, but he deserves a bit too. Not a great throw there. Maybe he will make up for that by taking a more reasonable salary in his upcoming negotiations? Unlikely of course.

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in the situation, a pass was the right call. you have 3 downs and 1 timeout. a stuffed run play requires the timeout, and means one of the following 2 plays has to be a pass. better to get the pass out of the way first--i suspect that this is what carroll was trying to say.

 

the disaster was the actual play called. instead of play action to an out-breaking receiver, combined with a run/pass option, SEA called a slant out of a stack formation, throwing the ball into the very crowded box (which was the entire justification for passing instead of running).

 

the correct pass would have resulted in a minimal-risk TD or 5 seconds off the clock. instead, the call had the QB throw into all the trash compressed in the middle.

 

I think the argument is as follows and is based on the fact that they only had one timeout remaining.

 

If you run it on 2nd down and get stuffed, you have to use your last timeout. Now it's 3rd and goal with 26 seconds left. At this point, no timeouts remaining, your 3rd down play can ONLY be a pass. If you run on 3rd down and fail, you don't have enough time on the clock to properly set up the key 4th down play.

 

If you pass it on 2nd down and it is incomplete, clock stops on its own. You now have time to set up for 3rd down with a timeout remaining, so, 3rd down can either be a run OR a pass. More uncertainty for how to handle that on D.

 

Anyway, that's the logic, I think. However this is where things break down too. Let's suppose Lockette makes the catch. What if Butler tackles him short of the goal-line? Lockette was moving back to the ball to get it. Maybe the throw is off a little. If he gets tackled inside the 1, then we're at the same place as if we had run the ball - clock is still running. Also, why throw the ball into the middle where at least 5 or 6 other guys can possibly deflect it? Throw it into the corner of the end zone. Put it up there for Mathews to go get, he'd been doing that all day anyway.

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They wasted timeouts earlier or they wouldn't have had to use that logic to force a pass play on 2nd and goal there.

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They wasted timeouts earlier or they wouldn't have had to use that logic to force a pass play on 2nd and goal there.

Got out coached. To say otherwise is dumb.

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They wasted timeouts earlier or they wouldn't have had to use that logic to force a pass play on 2nd and goal there.

Yeah they wasted two timeouts in the fourth quarter - one to avoid a delay of game and the other to gather themselves after Kearse's catch.

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Yeah they wasted two timeouts in the fourth quarter - one to avoid a delay of game and the other to gather themselves after Kearse's catch.

Yeah, they didn't waste anything... The TO's were called when they needed to be called. They were good TO's.

 

They waisted 30 sec. off the play clock though before running the fatal pass play. That could have been time for a run if they were really worried about getting in all those downs.

But, I was fine with the waisted time as you don't want to leave Brady with much time left. Yet, the reason you did that is because you knew you could pound it there with one quick run. But, they chose not to run it after the waisted time. :thumbsdown:

 

Another problem: What if the pass was Incomplete on 2nd down or a "waisted play per say". Now EVERYBODY knows your running on 3rd down and then calling a TO if you don't get it. How does that help you and differ from running it on 2nd? The play is still a give away.

So what Carrol said makes no sense and the entire thought process is a big fail.

 

What's the difference between that and just running it on 2nd down and calling a TO. And most likely have to pass it on 3rd. Either way the 3rd down play was most likely going to be projected. However, since your on the foot line it would be a whole lot easier after your last TO to get 2 plays in order for 3rd and 4th down, if say you really did want to run on 3rd anyway.

 

O'well, time to let it go. Regroup for next year.

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Got out coached. To say otherwise is dumb.

 

Have to agree here. No matter how F'n dumb the call was, you have got to give the Patriots credit for having prepared for the play, recognized the set (at the most improbable time), and executed it beyond anyone's potential expectation. That's coaching ... especially when you consider it was an undrafted free agent who is pretty deep on the depth chart.

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The only (convoluted) logic for "wasting" 2nd down was to leave less time on the clock after Carroll was certain that Lynch would punch it in on 3rd down. That's it - and that's stupid on its face. You run plays that maximize your chance to score while minimizing your chance to turn it over.

 

http://sportsunbiased.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/pete-carroll-sandra-bullock-meme.jpg

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Sports Guy broke this all down in his column on Grantland today. Basically Belichick messed with Carroll's head by not taking a timeout

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Sports Guy broke this all down in his column on Grantland today. Basically Belichick messed with Carroll's head by not taking a timeout

I agree. Bill is a genius in all seriousness. I believe he knew that play was coming because of personnel (Bultler made that same play in practice for game). His defense was prepared. Look at the rest of that defense. There was nobody open they had the perfect defensive call

 

Not calling TO made them feel like they had no time to run

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I agree. Bill is a genius in all seriousness. I believe he knew that play was coming because of personnel (Bultler made that same play in practice for game). His defense was prepared. Look at the rest of that defense. There was nobody open they had the perfect defensive call

 

Not calling TO made them feel like they had no time to run

Coaching helped make a difference in that game. Bill psyched out Carroll when he didn't call the time out. Very risky gamble but it paid off hugely

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