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Another school shooting. Houston


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#81 supermike80

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 01:32 PM

meanwhile, what is the root of all this
 
Bullying
 
and quite frankly, when we started going overboard with protecting kids from bullying, they got weaker, and the weaker are the ones that snap.  Maybe if when they are 8 and get picked on we just let it happen, where were the shootings in the 80s?


No social media. Bullying can be 24 7 Now. Back in the day, you left school and generally the bullying might be over.

If you are going to debate me on this bulletin board,

start with this premise..

You win.  And I don't care.


#82 5-Points

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 01:35 PM

Big picture thoughts....
 
The pro gun side is firm on not giving any ground whatsoever on anything, and they succeed by convincing their supporters that any ground given is the first step in taking away all of your guns. In short, they've emotionally made it an all or nothing issue for gun supporters and that is forcing more gun control types to argue it from that perspective.............. I personally think this is a lack of recognizing the direction of the tide. I'm oversimplifying, but pro gun people are born, whereas gun control people are born but also created with each of these type incidents.
 
So for the pro-gun side, what is the plan? Currently you have the edge, so you've turned this into an all or nothing policy debate and haven't had to take any significant hits whatsoever. But once the majority shifts to the Nothing side, is the plan to then hope those that want to ban guns will negotiate differently with their edge, and thus agree to a middle ground? Does that seem likely based on our current political landscape and the culture war that seems destined to divide our country?

This is the fallacy of the anti-gun crowd. They want you to believe that the next step towards gun control is the first step towards gun control. That view is indicative of someone who doesn't see the big picture.

We currently reside in the middle ground. I'm not prepared to cede anymore ground until we exhaust all other possible solutions.

#83 posty

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 01:35 PM

meanwhile, what is the root of all this
 
Bullying
 
and quite frankly, when we started going overboard with protecting kids from bullying, they got weaker, and the weaker are the ones that snap.  Maybe if when they are 8 and get picked on we just let it happen, where were the shootings in the 80s?


Exactly... Pretty much everyone got bullied at one time or another in the '80s and we didn't resort to guns...

#84 Gladiators

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 01:36 PM

No social media. Bullying can be 24 7 Now. Back in the day, you left school and generally the bullying might be over.

 

This is true.  And another reason I hate social media.



#85 posty

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 01:37 PM

No social media. Bullying can be 24 7 Now. Back in the day, you left school and generally the bullying might be over.


Simple... Stay off social media...

#86 posty

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 01:39 PM

Up to 10 dead...

#87 Gladiators

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 01:40 PM

Simple... Stay off social media...

 

Do you think the parents of these nutjobs are active in their kid's lives to being with?  Sure, I can keep my kids off social media, but I can't prevent the nutjobs from using it.



#88 cbfalcon

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 01:40 PM

This is the fallacy of the anti-gun crowd. They want you to believe that the next step towards gun control is the first step towards gun control. That view is indicative of someone who doesn't see the big picture.

We currently reside in the middle ground. I'm not prepared to cede anymore ground until we exhaust all other possible solutions.

 

I'm open to being educated and altering my opinion. What has the pro-gun group given up thus far that equates to a halfway point between where things were vs a ban on all guns in the USA?


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#89 Frozenbeernuts

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 01:48 PM

 
But who is paying for that wall?


Mexico

#90 RaiderHater's Revenge

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 01:50 PM

No social media. Bullying can be 24 7 Now. Back in the day, you left school and generally the bullying might be over.

 

exactly what my wife said when I told her what I posted

 

I guess the interwebs is bad?  But we already know that, look at this shithole


Suck it Rockford---

 

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#91 5-Points

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 01:54 PM



 

I'm open to being educated and altering my opinion. What has the pro-gun group given up thus far that equates to a halfway point between where things were vs a ban on all guns in the USA?

 

Prior to 1934, none of these things were  heavily regulated.

 


The National Firearms Act of 1934 (NFA) defines a number of categories of regulated firearms. These weapons are collectively known as NFA firearms and include the following:


Machine guns

This includes any firearm which can fire repeatedly, without manual reloading, "by a single function of the trigger."[8] Both continuous fully automatic fire and "burst fire" (e.g., firearms with a 3-round burst feature) are considered machine gun features. The weapon's receiver is by itself considered to be a regulated firearm. A non-machinegun that may be converted to fire more than one shot per trigger pull by ordinary mechanical skills is determined to be "readily convertible", and classed as a machine gun, such as a KG-9pistol (pre-ban ones are "grandfathered").

Short-barreled rifles (SBRs)

This category includes any firearm with a buttstock and either a rifled barrel less than 16" long or an overall length under 26". The overall length is measured with any folding or collapsing stocks in the extended position. The category also includes firearms which came from the factory with a buttstock that was later removed by a third party.

Short barreled shotguns (SBSs)

This category is defined similarly to SBRs, but with either a smoothbore barrel less than 18" long or a minimum overall length under 26".

Silencers

This includes any portable device designed to muffle or disguise the report of a portable firearm. This category does not include non-portable devices, such as sound traps used by gunsmiths in their shops which are large and usually bolted to the floor.

Destructive Devices (DDs)

There are two broad classes of destructive devices:

  • Devices such as grenadesbombs, explosive missilespoison gas weapons, etc.

  • Any firearm with a bore over 0.50 inch except for shotguns or shotgun shells which have been found to be generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes. (Many firearms with bores over 0.50" inch, such as 10-gauge or 12-gauge shotguns, are exempted from the law because they have been determined to have a "legitimate sporting use".)


 

 

https://en.wikipedia...al_Firearms_Act

 

 

Now these things are regulated. Not to mention a multitude of other laws, regulations, and ordinances restricting when and where we can legally possess the firearms not regulated under the NFA. 

 

So, from prior to 1930 up to today, we are about halfway to an all out ban. 



#92 iam90sbaby

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 01:56 PM

 

Prior to 1934, none of these things were  heavily regulated.

 

 

https://en.wikipedia...al_Firearms_Act

 

 

Now these things are regulated. Not to mention a multitude of other laws, regulations, and ordinances restricting when and where we can legally possess the firearms not regulated under the NFA. 

 

So, from prior to 1930 up to today, we are about halfway to an all out ban. 

 

The enlightened one cbfalcon didn't already know this? Wow.



#93 Sho Nuff

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 01:58 PM

Mexico


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#94 supermike80

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 01:59 PM

 
exactly what my wife said when I told her what I posted
 
I guess the interwebs is bad?  But we already know that, look at this shithole

I remember once in the stall of a bathroom. I think it was elem school. Some douche bag kid pops his head over the stall door as I'm dropping a deuce. Ok so I'm like 10 and that was mildly embarrassing.

However it lasted for a minute or two and life went on.

Now picture that same situation but that idiot kid has a camera. And now that same situation is posted everywhere. Ugh. I can't imagine some of the abuse kids take.

Yeah they could toughen up and yeah they need to stay off social media, but I do think it can be an assault we just aren't used to.

If you are going to debate me on this bulletin board,

start with this premise..

You win.  And I don't care.


#95 supermike80

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 02:04 PM

 
exactly what my wife said when I told her what I posted
 
I guess the interwebs is bad?  But we already know that, look at this shithole


Yeah she told me the same thing when you posted too. :banana:

If you are going to debate me on this bulletin board,

start with this premise..

You win.  And I don't care.


#96 wiffleball

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 02:14 PM

Has anybody ever seen a study on all of the school shooting kids and the percentage of them who are on the psychotropic and other type of psycho drugs? I swear, from talking to teacher friends of mine, something like 60% of their classes are on some kind of adderal or other type of drug. I'm just saying this might be something we look at?

Correlation, causation blah blah blah
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#97 cbfalcon

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 02:21 PM

 

Prior to 1934, none of these things were  heavily regulated.

 

 

https://en.wikipedia...al_Firearms_Act

 

 

Now these things are regulated. Not to mention a multitude of other laws, regulations, and ordinances restricting when and where we can legally possess the firearms not regulated under the NFA. 

 

So, from prior to 1930 up to today, we are about halfway to an all out ban. 

 

While there are some legitimate points there, you aren't going to score points in the narrative by talking about how your middle ground was reached by giving up missiles and poison gas weapons back in 1934. That would be somewhat like telling a women fighting for equal pay that she should be satisfied that you gave up The Code of Hammurabi, which made it legal to beat up your wife children.


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#98 posty

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 02:22 PM

Do you think the parents of these nutjobs are active in their kid's lives to being with?  Sure, I can keep my kids off social media, but I can't prevent the nutjobs from using it.


Unfortunately no... That is the way that people babysit their kids now...

#99 posty

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 02:22 PM

Has anybody ever seen a study on all of the school shooting kids and the percentage of them who are on the psychotropic and other type of psycho drugs? I swear, from talking to teacher friends of mine, something like 60% of their classes are on some kind of adderal or other type of drug. I'm just saying this might be something we look at?

Correlation, causation blah blah blah


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#100 LOD01

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 02:23 PM

Has anybody ever seen a study on all of the school shooting kids and the percentage of them who are on the psychotropic and other type of psycho drugs? I swear, from talking to teacher friends of mine, something like 60% of their classes are on some kind of adderal or other type of drug. I'm just saying this might be something we look at?

Correlation, causation blah blah blah

Yeah it seem as that is another part of the equation. We got bullying + social media = 24 hour bullying. We got losers breeding more losers - HUGE problem. We got a total collapse of authority in schools. Pretty much a collapse in the family. Just try and do something to a bully or any loser in school and his parents are in the principal's office demanding an explanation.

 

Now as far as banning the AR-15. That argument took a huge hit today. He used a shotgun and a .38 caliber handgun in the attack. Ban those and pressure cookers and pipes that can be made into bombs? Oh yeah and ban trench coats in high schools.


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Sho Nuff, on 29 Jun 2018 - 08:53 AM, said:snapback.png

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#101 jerryskids

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 02:35 PM

Taps

 

Great movie.  :cheers:

 

I seem to be the only one truly looking at solutions from A New Perspective.

The anti-bullying thing certainly isn't working.

Back in my day, we had full on bullying and we didn't have this kind of crap.

Ipso fatso, some of these kids just need their ass kicked. And some of them need their ass kicked on a daily basis.

Fock, if I had to walk around on liberal eggshells like I'm seeing in the news these days, every day at school? I'd be ready to shoot people too.

 

Agreed.  The underlying problem is that this generation of kids isn't learning how to deal with adversity.  :thumbsup:


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#102 LOD01

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 02:39 PM

 

Great movie.  :cheers:

 

 

Agreed.  The underlying problem is that this generation of kids isn't learning how to deal with adversity.  :thumbsup:

Maybe they didn't give this kid enough trophies.


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Sho Nuff, on 29 Jun 2018 - 08:53 AM, said:snapback.png

Right got now...yes, I donsode more with the right than left.

 

 

 

 


#103 GobbleDog

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 02:55 PM

 

 The underlying problem is that this generation of kids isn't learning how to deal with adversity.  :thumbsup:

 

Either that or it's because Americans have way too many weapons which too easily fall into kids hands.

 

Nah... it's mostly because they can't deal with adversity. Good thinking Jerry!



#104 DuckStupid

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 03:01 PM

 

Either that or it's because Americans have way too many weapons which too easily fall into kids hands.

 

Nah... it's mostly because they can't deal with adversity. Good thinking Jerry!

America had way too many weapons back in the 60s and 70s too. 



#105 wiffleball

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 03:05 PM

 
Great movie.  :cheers:
 
 
Agreed.  The underlying problem is that this generation of kids isn't learning how to deal with adversity.  :thumbsup:

I guess maybe I'd say they don't have any viable outlets.

Testosterone at that age is its own form of poison. Simple things, like running around and playing tag or smear the transgendered individual are ways to get that out of your system. So is fighting. Not talking fighting to the death, just throw a few punches and then end up being besties with a guy you just fought.

That ###### is so hyper regulated these days that there's no outlet for aggression and normal growth hormones. And no, I'm sorry, taking Trevor to pilate karate and learning how to bow with honor is not the same thing.

I think our coaches had it right. Let us throw a few punches and then make us run until we both puked our gizzards out.
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#106 5-Points

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 03:05 PM

 
While there are some legitimate points there, you aren't going to score points in the narrative by talking about how your middle ground was reached by giving up missiles and poison gas weapons back in 1934. That would be somewhat like telling a women fighting for equal pay that she should be satisfied that you gave up The Code of Hammurabi, which made it legal to beat up your wife children.

Let's set missiles, poison gas and hand grenades aside and just look at firearms.
For simplicity's sake let's say that there are 3 basic types of rifles. Automatic, semi-automatic and manually repeating (pump action / lever action / breech loading / single shot)

Fully automatic rifles have been heavily regulated for quite some time. Manually repeating rifles have, for the most part, not been overly regulated. Semi-automatic rifles are legal with some restrictions in place.

That, to me, is middle ground.

Continuing to push for more restrictive gun control laws, in the absence of any real effort to find alternative solutions, is a non-starter for me.

#107 Strike

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 03:08 PM

 

Either that or it's because Americans have way too many weapons which too easily fall into kids hands.

 

Nah... it's mostly because they can't deal with adversity. Good thinking Jerry!

 

Weapons ownership has gone up over the last few decades but violent crime is down.  Statistics don't agree with the point you're trying to make.  Such a shame when actual facts and data interfere with your talking points, huh?


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#108 wiffleball

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 03:10 PM

Last time I checked, something like 7 out of the top 10 deadliest mass shooting events in America have occurred in the last 10 years or so. Got to be something there.
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#109 RaiderHater's Revenge

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 03:14 PM

Last time I checked, something like 7 out of the top 10 deadliest mass shooting events in America have occurred in the last 10 years or so. Got to be something there.

 

interwebs


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#110 cyclone24

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 03:15 PM

More kids have died in schools this year from guns than we have lost in the military. But remember....we dont have a gun problem.

And surprise surprise.....kid took it from his responsible gun owner dad. What a shock.
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#111 LOD01

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 03:24 PM

More kids have died in schools this year from guns than we have lost in the military. But remember....we dont have a gun problem.

And surprise surprise.....kid took it from his responsible gun owner dad. What a shock.

We don't have a gun problem. We have a stupid people breeding problem. 


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Sho Nuff, on 29 Jun 2018 - 08:53 AM, said:snapback.png

Right got now...yes, I donsode more with the right than left.

 

 

 

 


#112 iam90sbaby

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 03:26 PM

More kids have died in schools this year from guns than we have lost in the military. But remember....we dont have a gun problem.

And surprise surprise.....kid took it from his responsible gun owner dad. What a shock.

 

Bullsh!t.



#113 RaiderHater's Revenge

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 03:30 PM

More kids have died in schools this year from guns than we have lost in the military. But remember....we dont have a gun problem.

And surprise surprise.....kid took it from his responsible gun owner dad. What a shock.

 

sounds like the father should be charged with accessory then


Suck it Rockford---

 

The Right protests the killing of babies, the left protests EVERYTHING else


#114 cbfalcon

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 03:32 PM

Let's set missiles, poison gas and hand grenades aside and just look at firearms.
For simplicity's sake let's say that there are 3 basic types of rifles. Automatic, semi-automatic and manually repeating (pump action / lever action / breach loading / single shot)

Fully automatic rifles have been heavily regulated for quite some time. Manually repeating rifles have, for the most part, not been overly regulated. Semi-automatic rifles are legal with some restrictions in place.

That, to me, is middle ground.

Continuing to push for more restrictive gun control laws, in the absence of any real effort to find alternative solutions, is a non-starter for me.

 

I get the convenience of showing 3 rifle types and saying the middle one is clearly a fair compromise, but I think the public is moving towards looking at the reasoning for needing weapons. If it's as simple as defense and hunting, fully automatic weapons were never any more in play than hand grenades. Not to mention that it's just reality that societal norms reset over long enough periods of time (84 years more than qualifies), so the pro gun crowd doesn't get too much credit for giving up missiles anymore.

 

In this era, the middle ground would be an effort to try for both alternative solutions and more restrictive gun laws. The large middle would support it. And the pro gun crowd avoids the debate in which losing means giving up your guns all together.


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#115 tanatastic

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 03:32 PM

sounds like the father should be charged with accessory then

Nah, thats silly. Just have to accept the fact that as long as we have our precious rights, these things are going to happen. All you can say is god bless America and I hope it doesnt happen to me. Now wheres that gun...I know it was around here somewhere...oops, Timmy and his friends took it, gulp.

#116 mobb_deep

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 03:46 PM

meanwhile, what is the root of all this

 

Bullying

 

and quite frankly, when we started going overboard with protecting kids from bullying, they got weaker, and the weaker are the ones that snap.  Maybe if when they are 8 and get picked on we just let it happen, where were the shootings in the 80s?

 

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#117 Strike

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 03:51 PM

Cases like the following happen every day in this country but don't get the media attention of a school shooting:

 

http://wreg.com/2018...n-orange-mound/

 

Guarantee you people using guns for self defense saves more lives than are lost in school shootings, by a long shot.  We should do what we can to minimize/eliminate school shootings and what not, but this get rid of guns because of these shootings doesn't account for all the "good" cases where guns are used.


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#118 RaiderHater's Revenge

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 03:55 PM

Cases like the following happen every day in this country but don't get the media attention of a school shooting:

 

http://wreg.com/2018...n-orange-mound/

 

Guarantee you people using guns for self defense saves more lives than are lost in school shootings, by a long shot.  We should do what we can to minimize/eliminate school shootings and what not, but this get rid of guns because of these shootings doesn't account for all the "good" cases where guns are used.

he should have given them his wallet and child


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#119 5-Points

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 04:02 PM

 
I get the convenience of showing 3 rifle types and saying the middle one is clearly a fair compromise, but I think the public is moving towards looking at the reasoning for needing weapons. If it's as simple as defense and hunting, fully automatic weapons were never any more in play than hand grenades. Not to mention that it's just reality that societal norms reset over long enough periods of time (84 years more than qualifies), so the pro gun crowd doesn't get too much credit for giving up missiles anymore.
 
In this era, the middle ground would be an effort to try for both alternative solutions and more restrictive gun laws. The large middle would support it. And the pro gun crowd avoids the debate in which losing means giving up your guns all together.

I agree that societal norms reset over time. All the more reason to not do something now that cannot be undone in the future such as banning certain classes of firearms.

You may be right about this era but only looking at this era isn't looking at the big picture and, like you said, societies change. Perhaps, with some effort, we can find a solution to the violence issue without the need for more gun control. One thing is for sure though, we'll never get there if we don't stop scapegoating inanimate objects for the actions of sick and evil people and start addressing the cause(s) of their motivation.

#120 jerryskids

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 04:10 PM

Last time I checked, something like 7 out of the top 10 deadliest mass shooting events in America have occurred in the last 10 years or so. Got to be something there.

 

No, I'm pretty sure gunz were invented about 10 years ago.  :(


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