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#NotCollusion

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#1 jgcrawfish

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 06:19 PM

Play in a league at work.  Team A (1-5) offers Odell Beckham Jr, Ju-Ju Smith-Schuster and Rob Gronkowski to Team B (4-3) in exchange for Alshon Jeffery, Josh Gordon and David Njoku.  And yes, Team is the one that approached Team B about it.  

 

Team A's justification is that doesn't like Odell Beckham, he's 1-5 which necessitates making some changes and Gronk is injured so he needs a TE.  

 

I'm not going to say the c-word here...but does it make a difference that the owner of Team B is Team A's boss?  

 

I told him that this was akin to saying "You know, I don't make enough money and I don't like $20 bills...so I'm going to take these three $20's and exchange them with a rich guy for three $10's which I like a lot better...that'll solve my financial woes".  

 

:mad:  :wall:



"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

#2 tanatastic

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 06:22 PM

Because hes 1-5 Id say thats dangerously close to tanking. Not because its bad but because it makes no sense. Take Juju out of the deal and it makes more sense. Juju alone is worth those 3 guys arguably. But Jeffrey is a great option, Gordon has plenty of upside and hes right, Gronk is hurt and Njoku has been good. So its not that bad, I just wouldnt say it makes sense. Obj just had a great game and Juju is Juju.

#3 kutulu

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 06:26 PM

Seems fine to me
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#4 Frozenbeernuts

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 06:35 PM

Beckham has been pretty mediocre in non ppr. Gronk hasn't been good in a long time. I could argue that Njoku may be better for the rest of the year with the lack of options in Cleveland. It looks lopsided because of the names, but in reality it may not be so much. Personally, I still stick with team A, since it doesn't seem like he is really gaining.

It probably is a shady move though because it is very lateral in actual value, and very lopsided when the names are considered.

#5 Brutal Brutus

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 06:38 PM

Take the names out and it's not THAT terrible. Nojku could out score Gronk rest of season and I wouldn't be that shocked.

#6 jgcrawfish

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 06:39 PM

Because hes 1-5 Id say thats dangerously close to tanking. Take Juju out of the deal and it makes more sense. Juju alone is worth those 3 guys arguably. But Jeffrey is a great option, Gordon has plenty of upside and hes right, Gronk is hurt and Njoku has been good. So its not that bad, I just wouldnt say it makes sense. Obj just had a great game and Juju is Juju.

Season totals aren't the end all-be all, but it's 319 pts to 201 pts, pretty lopsided.  PPR scoring.  Beckham, despite being a "disappointment" is still the #8 WR, Smith Schuster is WR15 and Gronk is WR9 a mere 2 pts behind Njoku in 1 less game.  

 

Drew Brees, Baker Mayfield
Todd Gurley II, LeSean McCoy, Chris Carson, Nick Chubb
Tyreek Hill, Alshon Jeffery, Josh Gordon, Corey Davis
David Njoku, Trey Burton
Bears D/ST D/ST
Adam Vinatieri
 
That's the team before the trade...he's already got one of the better teams on paper. Rolling out Brees, Gurley, Hill, Beckham, JuJu and Gronk is unassailable IMO, particularly with Burton there in case Gronk can't go. I hate Veto's, either by the commish or by league vote. But this one is hard to stomach.


"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

#7 tanatastic

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 06:53 PM

I agree. Its giving up too much. Because hes 1-5 Id say its too close to tanking.

People saying its fine are underrating OBJ because of the giants woes and overrating Gordon. Im actually shocked Juju is only wr15 (he had a bye), hes been a high end WR1 in ppr it feels like.

People who think they need to make changes because they are losing but have a good team are silly. Your goal in FF should be to score, not to win. You cant control wins and losses, you can only score as much as you can. A guy in my league has put up 140+ and lost about 3 times so far. His team is fine, he just got outscored, it happens and you cant control it.

#8 mobb_deep

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 07:02 PM

Team A won that trade by a mile. Great move.

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#9 Ehlana

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 07:04 PM

It's not a trade I'd make if I were Team A, but over the last four weeks (0.75 ppr):

 

Beckham: 19.7 ppg

JJSS: 13.25 ppg

Gronk: 10.45 ppg

 

Jeffery: 18.3 ppg

Gordon: 9.5 ppg

Njoku: 12.8 ppg

 

But neither team gets the points the players have accrued to this point, they only get what happens in the future, and none of us can predict the future. You figure Gordon's on an upward trajectory as he gets more familiar with the offense and Gronk's injury history, it's not that crazy.

 

I think in a macro sense Team B comes out ahead, but on a week to week basis I don't think it's crazy enough to want to veto, but then I'm extremely anti veto in fantasy. It's hard enough to make a trade with one team but making one that satisfies half the league is really tough.



#10 TheUsualSuspect

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Posted 25 October 2018 - 11:07 AM

Team As reasoning doesnt work for me. He doesnt like Odell? Then why draft him in the first place.

I suppose tanking to the boss is a nice alternative to the usual clock-meat sandwich.
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#11 Showboat

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Posted 25 October 2018 - 11:33 AM

If you can't trust league members to trade in good faith, either kick them out of the league or resign from the league yourself....



#12 tanatastic

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Posted 25 October 2018 - 12:36 PM

If you can't trust league members to trade in good faith, either kick them out of the league or resign from the league yourself....


Most of the time it’s in good faith but guys are just dummy’s.

#13 jgcrawfish

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Posted 25 October 2018 - 12:40 PM

It's not a trade I'd make if I were Team A, but over the last four weeks (0.75 ppr):

 

Beckham: 19.7 ppg

JJSS: 13.25 ppg

Gronk: 10.45 ppg

 

Jeffery: 18.3 ppg

Gordon: 9.5 ppg

Njoku: 12.8 ppg

 

But neither team gets the points the players have accrued to this point, they only get what happens in the future, and none of us can predict the future. You figure Gordon's on an upward trajectory as he gets more familiar with the offense and Gronk's injury history, it's not that crazy.

 

I think in a macro sense Team B comes out ahead, but on a week to week basis I don't think it's crazy enough to want to veto, but then I'm extremely anti veto in fantasy. It's hard enough to make a trade with one team but making one that satisfies half the league is really tough.

 

I'll admit, it's probably closer in #'s than in names.  Throw the names out and it looks a lot better.  But even using last 4 weeks the justification for making your team better is to give up 3ppg average per week?!  

 

Team As reasoning doesnt work for me. He doesnt like Odell? Then why draft him in the first place.

I suppose tanking to the boss is a nice alternative to the usual clock-meat sandwich.

 

Yeah, on that note, I tried to trade him earlier this season and acquire Odell.  Made and offer before the injury for Ajayi and Odell for Mixon and either John Brown or Emmanuel Sanders.  Thus far that NOT trade has worked completely in my favor.  But in my mind that was a pretty legit offer.

 

If you can't trust league members to trade in good faith, either kick them out of the league or resign from the league yourself....

 

Harder than that since it's a work league.  I'm not even saying it's not in good faith (although I border on hinting at it) and It will probably go through.  However, if the team that acquired Gronk/Odell/Juju wins the league due in large part to the nitro fueled addition of those three, I may end up leaving.  

 

 

 

*** Lastly, aside from Fantasy Football implications...does it make ANY difference at all that the guy giving up Gronk/Odell/Juju and I are applying for the same job which will be decided by the guy getting those players? *** 



"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

#14 sperri40

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Posted 25 October 2018 - 03:26 PM

Some people suggested that this person may be tanking, but does tanking even matter in your league?



#15 jgcrawfish

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Posted 25 October 2018 - 03:27 PM

Some people suggested that this person may be tanking, but does tanking even matter in your league?

 

He says he isn't, and there's nothing to be gained by it.  Draft order is random each year.  



"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

#16 sperri40

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Posted 25 October 2018 - 03:30 PM

 

He says he isn't, and there's nothing to be gained by it.  Draft order is random each year.  

 

If there's nothing to be gained by it, then I doubt that's it. I'd say the fact that the boss is involved makes this stink a bit, but we all see trades that we shake our heads at every season. 



#17 Showboat

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Posted 25 October 2018 - 03:31 PM

 

Harder than that since it's a work league.  I'm not even saying it's not in good faith (although I border on hinting at it) and It will probably go through.  However, if the team that acquired Gronk/Odell/Juju wins the league due in large part to the nitro fueled addition of those three, I may end up leaving.  

 

*** Lastly, aside from Fantasy Football implications...does it make ANY difference at all that the guy giving up Gronk/Odell/Juju and I are applying for the same job which will be decided by the guy getting those players? *** 

I notice you say "IF"....  Jeffrey, Gordon and Njuko could all tear it up the last half of the season while Gronk becomes an injury headache, Odell wallows in Giants misery and JuJu fades.  No one knows what's going to happen.  Trades occur because different people value players differently and I think the whole point of trading is to better your team.  You shouldn't quit a league just because someone managed to better their team through a trade.  It's not like Brandon Weeden and Marshawn Lynch are being traded for Todd Gurley and Antonio Brown.

 

Now the bigger issue is joining a "work league" with managers and subordinates.  That has trouble written all over it, especially if it's more than a "just for fun" league.  If your concern is that the "boss" is susceptible to FF bribes in exchange for promotions, you'd better consider finding a new job - not just a new FF league.



#18 Kent

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Posted 25 October 2018 - 03:40 PM

Seems fine.

#19 jgcrawfish

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Posted 26 October 2018 - 01:18 PM

 

Team Me trades:

Saquon Barkley

James Conner

Emmanuel Sanders

George Kittle

Julian Edelman

 

To Other Lucky team for:

Marlon Mack

Jordy Nelson

Jordan Reed

Alex Collins

Sammy Watkins

 

Dear Leaguemates:  I have proposed the above trade to (other owner).  I’m not getting consistent enough scoring out of my team and feel like I needed to make some changes.  For my part, James Conner will be useless when Le’Veon Bell returns in a couple of weeks, I’ve never liked the NY Giants so I don’t really want Saquon and I’ve never been fond of the names “George”, “Julian” or “Emmanuel”.   Getting Mack, who has been hot recently,  Nelson who is now the #1 WR for the Raiders and an RB to play when I lose Conner seems like a no-brainer. 

 

 

 

I sent that out via email.  Even though it's a work league, there is still a $50 buy-in and a fairly large pay-out at stake.  So I'm sufficiently pissed.    :ninja:



"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

#20 murf74

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Posted 26 October 2018 - 04:21 PM

Redraft or dynasty?
........+
Steelers +
........+
THE NFL'S ONLY 6 TIME SUPER BOWL CHAMPIONS

#21 easilyscan

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Posted 26 October 2018 - 08:09 PM

Not what you want to hear, but I'm ok with it.


"Tolerance is the virtue of men who no longer believe in anything"  G.K. Chesterton

 


#22 jgcrawfish

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Posted 26 October 2018 - 08:16 PM

Redraft or dynasty?

Redraft.  Again, to clarify, I actually voted to allow the trade to go thru.  Over the next 8 weeks it's conceivable that Gordon, Jeffrey and Njoku could exceed what their counterparts in the trade do.  But you have to admit trading your 1st (Beckham), 2nd (Gronk) and 5th (JuJu) round draft picks for 4th (Gordon), 5th (Jeffrey) and FA (Njoku, who I actually drafted in the 10th round) is, um, "uncommon".  



"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

#23 jgcrawfish

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Posted 13 November 2018 - 09:06 PM

I'm circling back around to this thread. 

 

Now, 3 weeks into the trade: 

 

Team A that traded has scored 71.9 points with the players they acquired (Gordon, Jeffrey and Njoku).  Of course, since Gordon has been on his bench EVERY week, only 27.6 of those have counted toward his totals. 

 

Team B, that received Odell, Juju and Gronk have gotten 93.6 total points, of which 86.3 have been in the starting lineup.  Team B also set a new league scoring record this past weekend winning their matchup over the 2nd highest scorer of the week by 16 points, on the strength of 40+ from Juju and Odell, with those two being more than enough to swing the victory.  

 

So, again, Team A owner said he doesn't like Odell and wanted to get rid of him because he thought Gordon was "ascending".  Of course, he has Odell in another league and didn't get rid of him there.  He also hasn't once started the "ascending" Gordon.  Anybody got an explanation?  

 

:rolleyes:

 

I quit the league.  7 yrs in a $50 work league and these douches pull this...



"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

#24 tanatastic

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Posted 14 November 2018 - 11:48 AM

 
I quit the league.  7 yrs in a $50 work league and these douches pull this...

Its simply guys who have no respect for the integrity of the league, thats all.

A friend is in a league where the commish colluded with last place in a trade and the league imploded. Guys dropped their team, dues that werent paid wont be paid etc, basically the textbook catastrophe. Now, your posts deal is nowhere near that level of bad, but its still funny how quickly things can go bad if the commish has no integrity.

#25 thePRO

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Posted 14 November 2018 - 11:59 AM

Some guy needs an RB2 and a WR2/3, so I just traded Ingram/Scantling for Ertz.

 

Some may say that was a bad trade for him.

 

Earlier in the year a trade got passed me, but it was Brees for Lockette/Cousins. I would've still allowed it, but the guy trading Brees away already had Mahomes.

 

He was basically trading Brees for Lockette. Stupid, stupid...


12 Team Standard                           14 Team PPR/Return Yards                          12 Team Standard/Return Yards

Wilson                                              Cousins, Mahomes                                       Rodgers             

Johnson, A. Jones                          Gurley, Breida, A. Jones                              Barkley, T. Cohen, Connor

Drake, Ingram, Murray                    Mckinnon, C. Thompson                              R. Freeman, Breida, K. Johnson

Green, C. Davis                               Allen, DJ Moore                                             M. Thomas, Lockett

Evans, Jeffery                                 Adams, Sanders                                            JuJu, Benjamin, P. Cooper

Hogan                                              Lockett                                                           Lockett

Walker                                              Njoku                                                             Burton

Eagles DST                                     Chargers DST                                                Jaguars DST

Vinatieri                                           Succop                                                           Crosby


#26 ZeroTolerance

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Posted 14 November 2018 - 12:30 PM

No collusion so didn't veto, but...

Before week 9
Mahomes for Gronkowski

This league doesn't have a mandatory TE position either.

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Neither one of them gives a f*ck about you


#27 jgcrawfish

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Posted 14 November 2018 - 04:06 PM

Its simply guys who have no respect for the integrity of the league, thats all.

A friend is in a league where the commish colluded with last place in a trade and the league imploded. Guys dropped their team, dues that werent paid wont be paid etc, basically the textbook catastrophe. Now, your posts deal is nowhere near that level of bad, but its still funny how quickly things can go bad if the commish has no integrity.

Yeah, I sent a league email saying I won't be back.  Two other guys said the same verbally.  The owner of team that got the haul saw it and initially said he figured he would reject it because it didn't seem fair to him as the recipient. But the other one is a complete kiss ass and it would not surprise me in the slightest if the move was done to earn favor.  League of 7 years up in smoke.  



"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

#28 mobb_deep

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 04:15 PM

Yeah, I sent a league email saying I won't be back.  Two other guys said the same verbally.  The owner of team that got the haul saw it and initially said he figured he would reject it because it didn't seem fair to him as the recipient. But the other one is a complete kiss ass and it would not surprise me in the slightest if the move was done to earn favor.  League of 7 years up in smoke.


Way to ruin a good time, and look like the work doosh, over a couple bucks. Job well done. You're generally a pretty good poster, but you look like a total baby in this situation IMO. The trade is barely lop-sided, if at all. Could end up being a complete wash by the end of the season.

Sangre Por Sangre


#29 jgcrawfish

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 07:01 PM

Way to ruin a good time, and look like the work doosh, over a couple bucks. Job well done. You're generally a pretty good poster, but you look like a total baby in this situation IMO. The trade is barely lop-sided, if at all. Could end up being a complete wash by the end of the season.

The money isn't the issue, the shady nature of the trade is.  I dropped out at the end of the season and still plan on winning a championship with the team I built, not the one gotten via lopsided deals.  



"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

#30 jgcrawfish

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Posted Yesterday, 12:08 PM

I'm hoping the chickens have come home to roost on this trade.  The recipient of Odell/JuJu/Gronk went from being out of the playoff race to getting the top seed and a bye, so this week is his first playoff game.  Tyreek Hill (his draft pick) had an off week by his standards and OBJ (shady trade) is out.  Maybe he will get upset this round and not even make the bigger money round.  Went back and looked...this was a trade of a 1st (Beckham), 2nd (Gronk) and 5th (Juju) for a 4th (Gordon), 5th (Alshon) and UDFA (Njoku).  Points for the 6 players involved and easily 2x in the favor of the guy who got Beckham/JuJu/Gronk.  It may cause me an aneurysm if I lose in the championship to this underhanded crap.   :mad:



"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)