How common are good guys with guns?

[wiffleball 4,629]

I mean, I understand why bunny might have a gun. Because you damn sure can't fit a bridge in your house...

[NorthernVike 2,079]

I do...but when you bring up one city as if it disproves what he said...you obviously dont.

It's not just the one city. It's THE city.

 

 

Stay in your house with your head in the sand, you'll be ok little buddy

[shotsup 830]

I mean, I understand why bunny might have a gun. Because you damn sure can't fit a bridge in your house...

Again. You are not funny. Ever.

[drobeski 3,061]

More common than bad guys with guns.

How many NRA members commit crimes with their weapons.

 

Good guys.

[wiffleball 4,629]

How many NRA members commit crimes with their weapons.

.

Members only guy

[wiffleball 4,629]

Again. You are not funny. Ever.

Nobody likes drunks in the morning. Especially themselves.

[NorthernVike 2,079]

Nobody likes drunks in the morning. Especially themselves.

Talking from experience?

[jerryskids 5,151]

Your logic is flawed...in general, areas with more gun regulation and less firearms tend to have less violent crime. This holds true from state to state and country to country. For example, there arent a lot of guns in HI, yet we have the lowest violent crime in the country.

 

But lets assume your threat of gun use is an effective deterrent. What is the optimal number of firearms a community needs to maximize safety? Can there ever be too many guns?

 

Glad you moved past your red herring (also, I saw someone already pointed out that HI doesn't have the lowest violent crime rate), and on to a question I couldn't possibly answer. What is the relevance of it?

 

 

[Sho Nuff 719]

It's not just the one city. It's THE city.

 

 

Stay in your house with your head in the sand, you'll be ok little buddy

None of which changes what pen said or what the words in general mean.

[shotsup 830]

Nobody likes drunks in the morning. Especially themselves.

I know unfunny forced humor when I see it. You try to hard. Not funny.

[wiffleball 4,629]

I know unfunny forced humor when I see it. You try to hard. Not funny.

This is like taking Fitness advice from drobeski.

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,563]

I knew one of you fvckos was gonna blame minorities. My generalization holds for other states as well - youd know this if you read a fraction of the links Ive provided, rather than listening to celebrity podcasts for your opinions.

 

ETA Alaska has the highest firearm ownership, gun death and violent crime rates in the US...yet not a lot of darkies. Good thing you didn't look at the numbers.

 

ahh yes lets throw suicide into it

 

Alaska is a special state, its the only one where men out number women like 2-1

 

And considering once again, that blacks commit roughly half of the murders in this country, having a small % of blacks in a state is going to lower those rates

 

Vermont is an example, has an extremely high gun ownership %, but the lowest gun violence in the country, as well as the most lax gun laws

[TimmySmith 2,782]

Is 99.99% common?

[penultimatestraw 473]

Someone has never heard of Chicago.

Someone doesn't understand what an outlier is. Or a state.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,552]

Someone doesn't understand what an outlier is.

Is Baltimore an outlier too?

[penultimatestraw 473]

 

Glad you moved past your red herring (also, I saw someone already pointed out that HI doesn't have the lowest violent crime rate), and on to a question I couldn't possibly answer. What is the relevance of it?

WTF are you talking about? My point remains. I've already linked the primary data, but here is a summary article from the Atlantic. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/08/the-states-with-the-most-gun-laws-see-the-fewest-gun-related-deaths/448044/

 

You can answer my question...in your opinion, where is the sweet spot where gun ownership promotes safety over the risks associated with gun ownership? I think we're waaaaay past that point, and the gun death stats agree.

[penultimatestraw 473]

 

ahh yes lets throw suicide into it

 

Alaska is a special state, its the only one where men out number women like 2-1

 

And considering once again, that blacks commit roughly half of the murders in this country, having a small % of blacks in a state is going to lower those rates

 

Vermont is an example, has an extremely high gun ownership %, but the lowest gun violence in the country, as well as the most lax gun laws

Look at the entire country - gun regulation, gun ownership and gun deaths (unfortunately for you guys, suicide is a cause of death, too ). What I've said is accurate.

[tanatastic 2,061]

Pen is obsessed with using Alaska and suicide as the sole measures of gun violence. Its Rain man levels of strange.

But, but Alaska, but but muh suicide! Really strange.

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,563]

Look at the entire country - gun regulation, gun ownership and gun deaths (unfortunately for you guys, suicide is a cause of death, too ). What I've said is accurate.

 

so you want to tell me to look at the entire country, which I did, but then you claim Alaska and Hawaii for your points, but when I mention Vermont, its look at the country again. WOW that is some Newbie logic right there

 

suicide is a cause of death

 

suicide by gun is not part of gun violence

 

suicide in Japan higher than in the US, what do you blame there? Stress and depression are the causes for suicide, the weapons are irrelevant

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

Several years ago I heard a car door outside my home. Took a peek out the window to see if I had company and saw gangstas trying to steal my car.

 

Grabbed the shotgun, went outside and audibly shucked a shell into the chamber. At that time they fled to the getaway car and reversed at speed into a ditch and fled on foot.

 

Called the cops to file a report and found out that the getaway car was stolen and that they stole another car and led police on a high speed chase that eventually led to another accident and their arrest.

 

Mr Mossberg was directly involved in the apprehension of a gang of focking thieves.

Or you could have just yelled, the cops are on their way. Or yelled anything really

[jerryskids 5,151]

WTF are you talking about? My point remains. I've already linked the primary data, but here is a summary article from the Atlantic. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/08/the-states-with-the-most-gun-laws-see-the-fewest-gun-related-deaths/448044/

 

You can answer my question...in your opinion, where is the sweet spot where gun ownership promotes safety over the risks associated with gun ownership? I think we're waaaaay past that point, and the gun death stats agree.

 

Awesome that you have that opinion. I don't share it as evidenced by the post that I initially made in this thread regarding the implicit safety due to the likelihood that any house here has a gun. So clearly I don't think there are too many; if anything we need more. That's pretty obvious by what I said, so I'm back to not understanding what you would like me to say in addition to this.

 

Also, enough with the "deaths." You do this every time. I'm glad you were called out on it already, saved me finger muscles from having to do it again.

[penultimatestraw 473]

Pen is obsessed with using Alaska and suicide as the sole measures of gun violence. Its Rain man levels of strange.

But, but Alaska, but but muh suicide! Really strange.

Raider's hater brought up Alaska dipsh!t.

[jerryskids 5,151]

Raider's hater brought up Alaska dipsh!t.

 

Uhh... no, you brought up Alaska, with one of your classic "death" red herrings.

 

I knew one of you fvckos was gonna blame minorities. My generalization holds for other states as well - youd know this if you read a fraction of the links Ive provided, rather than listening to celebrity podcasts for your opinions.

 

ETA Alaska has the highest firearm ownership, gun death and violent crime rates in the US...yet not a lot of darkies. Good thing you didn't look at the numbers.

 

[penultimatestraw 473]

 

so you want to tell me to look at the entire country, which I did, but then you claim Alaska and Hawaii for your points, but when I mention Vermont, its look at the country again. WOW that is some Newbie logic right there

 

suicide is a cause of death

 

suicide by gun is not part of gun violence

 

suicide in Japan higher than in the US, what do you blame there? Stress and depression are the causes for suicide, the weapons are irrelevant

Fock this is never ending. I was responding to Jerry's claim about his home city's safety by referencing my home state, not generalizing for the country. You then cherry picked one state (VT) to promote your racially charged assertion, and mentioned another (AK), which happens to have a lot of gun deaths, a subset of which are suicides. But violent crime is prevalent in AK too.

 

Since you are incapable of looking at the big picture, here is a summary for all 50 states regarding gun legislation and deaths:

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/1661390

Design Using an ecological and cross-sectional method, we retrospectively analyzed all firearm-related deaths reported to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Web-based Injury Statistics Query and Reporting System from 2007 through 2010. We used state-level firearm legislation across 5 categories of laws to create a “legislative strength score,” and measured the association of the score with state mortality rates using a clustered Poisson regression. States were divided into quartiles based on their score.

 

Setting Fifty US states.

Participants Populations of all US states.

Main Outcome Measures The outcome measures were state-level firearm-related fatalities per 100 000 individuals per year overall, for suicide, and for homicide. In various models, we controlled for age, sex, race/ethnicity, poverty, unemployment, college education, population density, nonfirearm violence–related deaths, and household firearm ownership.

Results Over the 4-year study period, there were 121 084 firearm fatalities. The average state-based firearm fatality rates varied from a high of 17.9 (Louisiana) to a low of 2.9 (Hawaii) per 100 000 individuals per year. Annual firearm legislative strength scores ranged from 0 (Utah) to 24 (Massachusetts) of 28 possible points. States in the highest quartile of legislative strength (scores of ≥9) had a lower overall firearm fatality rate than those in the lowest quartile (scores of ≤2) (absolute rate difference, 6.64 deaths/100 000/y; age-adjusted incident rate ratio [iRR], 0.58; 95% CI, 0.37-0.92). Compared with the quartile of states with the fewest laws, the quartile with the most laws had a lower firearm suicide rate (absolute rate difference, 6.25 deaths/100 000/y; IRR, 0.63; 95% CI, 0.48-0.83) and a lower firearm homicide rate (absolute rate difference, 0.40 deaths/100 000/y; IRR, 0.60; 95% CI, 0.38-0.95).

Conclusions and Relevance A higher number of firearm laws in a state are associated with a lower rate of firearm fatalities in the state, overall and for suicides and homicides individually. As our study could not determine cause-and-effect relationships, further studies are necessary to define the nature of this association.

There are international comparisons with similar conclusions, and numerous studies which equate per capita gun ownership with gun related death - BOTH homicide and suicide.

[penultimatestraw 473]

without looking at numbers you probably have the lowest % of blacks and hispanics as well. Maybe AK

I was responding to this post. You know "AK" is the state abbreviation for Alaska, right?

Uhh... no, you brought up Alaska, with one of your classic "death" red herrings.

 

 

No, I didn't dipsh!t #2.

[penultimatestraw 473]

 

Awesome that you have that opinion. I don't share it as evidenced by the post that I initially made in this thread regarding the implicit safety due to the likelihood that any house here has a gun. So clearly I don't think there are too many; if anything we need more. That's pretty obvious by what I said, so I'm back to not understanding what you would like me to say in addition to this.

 

Also, enough with the "deaths." You do this every time. I'm glad you were called out on it already, saved me finger muscles from having to do it again.

How many more guns do you think is optimal? Should every home have a firearm? Can there ever be too many guns in the hands of private citizens?

 

Also, I'll continue to reference all relevant data. I'm sorry you guys think gun suicides are inconsequential, with hate quotes implying they aren't real "deaths".

 

But you can just gloss over the suicide numbers if you prefer. My assertions are still valid when just homicides are considered.

[jerryskids 5,151]

How many more guns do you think is optimal? Should every home have a firearm? Can there ever be too many guns in the hands of private citizens?

 

Also, I'll continue to reference all relevant data. I'm sorry you guys think gun suicides are inconsequential, with hate quotes implying they aren't real "deaths".

 

But you can just gloss over the suicide numbers if you prefer. My assertions are still valid when just homicides are considered.

 

My bad, I see that Raider's mentioned AK, I didn't get that in my search. Wish he hadn't, because that was an easy opening for your misdirection on suicides. Which, are kinda like the opioid argument earlier in this thread. Suicide by guns, opioids... maybe we should ban both? And spare us the "guns only exist to kill" post.

 

You started a thread with some Harvard lefty proposing that the statistics don't point to "good guys with guns" helping. I proposed a reason that that measure is significantly underrepresented. You don't like it because it doesn't fit your narrative. Sorry.

 

Also sorry that you don't like my answer in post #101 (some might argue for the second time) as to how many guns are enough. I'm happy with one or more guns in the possession of every responsible gun owner.

 

HTH

[penultimatestraw 473]

 

My bad, I see that Raider's mentioned AK, I didn't get that in my search. Wish he hadn't, because that was an easy opening for your misdirection on suicides. Which, are kinda like the opioid argument earlier in this thread. Suicide by guns, opioids... maybe we should ban both? And spare us the "guns only exist to kill" post.

 

You started a thread with some Harvard lefty proposing that the statistics don't point to "good guys with guns" helping. I proposed a reason that that measure is significantly underrepresented. You don't like it because it doesn't fit your narrative. Sorry.

 

Also sorry that you don't like my answer in post #101 (some might argue for the second time) as to how many guns are enough. I'm happy with one or more guns in the possession of every responsible gun owner.

 

HTH

I don't follow a narrative...nor am I trying to misdirect. As I said, ignore the suicide data and the conclusions are the same. I think suicides are relevant, so I'll continue to include those numbers even if you guys want to act like they aren't are a part of the equation.

 

Heroin is illegal. So is prescription drug abuse. But prescribers and distributors of pain meds are very regulated, so I don't understand your point. I also don't know what you guys think will manage severe pain if opioids are outlawed. Medical MJ ain't gonna cut it.

 

How do you determine who will be a responsible gun owner? Why do states and countries with far less than one gun per household tend to have less violent crime than areas with more guns, both in the US and abroad?

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

I don't follow a narrative...nor am I trying to misdirect. As I said, ignore the suicide data and the conclusions are the same. I think suicides are relevant, so I'll continue to include those numbers even if you guys want to act like they aren't are a part of the equation.

 

Heroin is illegal. So is prescription drug abuse. But prescribers and distributors of pain meds are very regulated, so I don't understand your point. I also don't know what you guys think will manage severe pain if opioids are outlawed. Medical MJ ain't gonna cut it.

 

How do you determine who will be a responsible gun owner? Why do states and countries with far less than one gun per household tend to have less violent crime than areas with more guns, both in the US and abroad?

Youre wasting your time. Nobody rational can look at National or international data and conclude gun ownership is a good thing.

 

But their toys and Rambo fantasies are more important to them than a safer society. Thats just how it is, and it aint gonna change.

[drobeski 3,061]

NRA has over 5million members.

That's a lot of good guys

[wiffleball 4,629]

Look, if you're going to go with chicken thighs, at a minimum, remove the skin. That's just way too much grease and fat for virtually any dish.

[wiffleball 4,629]

NRA has over 5million members.

That's a lot of good guys

Kim Kardashian has 70 million followers. Your point?

[NorthernVike 2,079]

Kim Kardashian has 70 million followers. Your point?

Now eliminate blacks from both of those numbers and see where they stand. Somewhere between 4.95m NRA members to 5k Kardashian followers.

[penultimatestraw 473]

Youre wasting your time. Nobody rational can look at National or international data and conclude gun ownership is a good thing.

 

But their toys and Rambo fantasies are more important to them than a safer society. Thats just how it is, and it aint gonna change.

I know; it's like arguing religion with most of these guys. At least some of them can admit they don't care what the numbers say, rather than acting like guns are saving lives.

[drobeski 3,061]

Kim Kardashian has 70 million followers. Your point?

how many of them are you ?

[NorthernVike 2,079]

I know; it's like arguing religion with most of these guys. At least some of them can admit they don't care what the numbers say, rather than acting like guns are saving lives.

All I know is that some day a gun may save my life because I have one. If you need one, you're dead.

[penultimatestraw 473]

All I know is that some day a gun may save my life because I have one. If you need one, you're dead.

Of course it may, but the odds are far more likely that it will take a life other than that of a bad guy. The math ain't in your favor.

 

I'll roll the dice that I'll never need a gun, thanks.

[Filthy Fernadez 2,696]

There's a lot of property crime here. Not much violent crime. I can live with that.

Rape isn't a violent crime? Bend over.....

[TimmySmith 2,782]

Anyone get the feeling PS went on a bender this weekend? I can't decide if it's a BB bender or a WB bender.

[penultimatestraw 473]

Rape isn't a violent crime? Bend over.....

Not if you sedate them effectively