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Courts love foreigners - Trump's new travel ban blocked Nationwide by Hawaii courts


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#81 penultimatestraw

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 12:23 AM

You said you're not concerned with restricting any immigrants.

Under our current immigration policy, I'm not.

#82 Hardcore troubadour

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 12:37 AM

Under our current immigration policy, I'm not.


I'm not going around in circles. Here is what I have to say to a guy like you: When I have had family members in need of medical care, I say thank god for the people in that field, because I don't know shite from shinola about that stuff. I trust the people with the education and experience to do a good job. When it comes to things like national security, you should take the same approach.

#83 wiffleball

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 12:45 AM

It's like I said a couple weeks ago. They shot themselves in the foot when they're thirty-one-year-old prematurely bald freak looking guy came out on national TV and said oh it's still the same thing we just have to clean the language up for the courts.

From an appellate juridprudence perspective, probably the dumbest f****** thing anyone has ever said.

Then you add in Giuliani coming out very clearly and saying the Trump wanted a Muslim ban but didn't want to have to call it that. And then you add in months of trump saying there's going to be a Muslim ban.

And now suddenly
, oh no we don't want a Muslim ban!

Sure thing. Because judges are stupid .


Thing is, I actually more or less agree with the idea that this isn't a flat-out Muslim ban. But what I disagree with is prove to me that there are massive gaps specific policy and procedure failures that need we working and then go to the courts and say hey look we've got to stop everything until we can get s*** straight. And here specifically is why.

It was obvious when Trump was talking but he had absolutely no idea what the current vetting process is, but is sure and absolutely insisted that he could do so much better. Gee, does that sound familiar to any and everything else he has said?

It's just badly handled. He could have started this process while he was still a candidate. Get all the right heads in a room and ask their opinions about where the gaps are and what needs to be changed and how to do it.

Instead, this b******* that we have to hurry up and do it before the bad guys get in, that's not how it works. It takes between several months and a couple years not to mention multiple vetting process just to get here.

Not to mention our biggest fear and biggest threat is the Homegrown home radicalized terrorists these days.

The concept behind it and the execution of it was complete crap. Any one of us could have done a better job in both of those arenas.
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#84 penultimatestraw

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 12:59 AM

I'm not going around in circles. Here is what I have to say to a guy like you: When I have had family members in need of medical care, I say thank god for the people in that field, because I don't know shite from shinola about that stuff. I trust the people with the education and experience to do a good job. When it comes to things like national security, you should take the same approach.

So you've never disagreed with me in a thread about medical care?

Also, I trust our immigration policy and the courts to determine if increased restrictions are necessary. As a retired LEO, why do you feel qualified to determine what constitutes an immigrant threat?

#85 Hardcore troubadour

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 01:05 AM

So you've never disagreed with me in a thread about medical care?

Also, I trust our immigration policy and the courts to determine if increased restrictions are necessary. As a retired LEO, why do you feel qualified to determine what constitutes an immigrant threat?

I don't think I have disagreed with you on medical issues. Maybe economic issues having to do with health care. And my status as a Ret Leo affords me rudimentary understanding of national security issues, which, while more than most, doesn't qualify me as an expert. But I have heard experts, like the head of the FBI and CIA, get in front of congress and say we can not effectively vet the people from those countries seeking refugee status. So I'll go ahead and take their word for it and not a judge on an island in the Pacific Ocean.

#86 penultimatestraw

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 01:11 AM

I don't think I have disagreed with you on medical issues. Maybe economic issues having to do with health care. And my status as a Ret Leo affords me rudimentary understanding of national security issues, which, while more than most, doesn't qualify me as an expert. But I have heard experts, like the head of the FBI and CIA, get in front of congress and say we can not effectively vet the people from those countries seeking refugee status. So I'll go ahead and take their word for it and not a judge on an island in the Pacific Ocean.

There will be other judges as well. I'm sure you'll be OK with their ruling after they weigh the evidence and the legality of the restrictions.

#87 wiffleball

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 01:46 AM

. But I have heard expertise, like the head of the FBI and CIA, get in front of congress and say we can not effectively vet the people from those countries seeking refugee status. So I'll go ahead and take their word for it and not a judge on an island in the Pacific Ocean.

So, do me a favor, and Google The Following. What does the CIA say about the travel ban?

Pick any story you want from the first page just so you won't think I'm cherry-picking. We have multiple former CIA heads who say that the ban is not only not effective it is counterproductive and makes us less safe. If you really value their opinion and you're not just looking to argue for attention sake, it seems pretty clear to me.
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#88 Hardcore troubadour

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 01:50 AM

So, do me a favor, and Google The Following. What does the CIA say about the travel ban?

Pick any story you want from the first page just so you won't think I'm cherry-picking. We have multiple former CIA heads who say that the ban is not only not effective it is counterproductive and makes us less safe. If you really value their opinion and you're not just looking to argue for attention sake, it seems pretty clear to me.

No thanks. Not interested in what the old guard working under old Intel has to say about it. Im funny like that. Il take the guy with the current info if it's ok with you. You can go with the guy with the outdated Intel.

#89 wiffleball

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 01:59 AM

ThislThis order cannot be justified on national security or foreign policy grounds. It does not perform its declared task of 'protecting the nation from foreign terrorist entry into the United States,'" the co-authors John Kerry, Madeleine Albright, Janet Napolitano, Susan Rice, Leon Panetta, John McLaughlin, Avril Haines, Michael Hayden, Lisa Monaco and Michael Morell wrote in the filing.

The co-authors are mostly Democrats, but notably, Hayden is a retired U.S. Air Force four-star general who served as the director of the CIA under President George W. Bush. And McLaughlin served as deputy director of the CIA under both Clinton and Bush.

The former officials urged the U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals not to reinstate Trump's entry ban while they deci

The affidavit was nations: Iraindefinitely.

Image: Michael Hayden

The former intelligence officials argue that Trump's entry ban misses its intended target potential terrorists. "Since September 11, 2001, not a single terrorist attack in the United States has been perpetrated by aliens from the countries named in the order," they write in the brief. "Very few attacks on U.S. soil since September 11, 2001 have been traced to foreign nationals at all."


The former officials argue the entry ban, if allowed to continue, would compromise U.S. national security by immediately placing American troops fighting alongside soldiers from the affected countries in harm's way.

Further, they say, the order would make key countries critical to obtaining intelligence needed to fight ISIS and other terror groups reluctant to share that information.

the authors security vetting apparatus developed since Sept. 11, 2001 as a "rigorous system of security vetting, leveraging the full capabilities of the law enforcement and intelligence communities."
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#90 Filthy Fernadez

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 02:10 AM

We should trust the IC that has been working against Trump since BEFORE he got in office? Let's wait until he clears house before we start viewing them as an objective source.


BBC for the most part is pretty damn good.


#91 NewbieJr

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 03:12 AM

Always funny when Trump's words come back to bite him in the ass. Trump loved saying he was going to ban all Muslims from entering the country when he was fishing for cheers at his rallies. Now, he and those very same retards who cheered, are trying to pretend this is not a Muslim band. Gotta love it
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#92 Filthy Fernadez

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 03:18 AM

 a Muslim band. Gotta love it

 

What kind of music do they play? 

 

http://imgur.com/gallery/Qf54B69


BBC for the most part is pretty damn good.


#93 drobeski

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 04:08 AM

Trump should declare Hawaii a sanctuary state for the refugees, allow them to only immigrate to there, by the thousands. I'm sure pen and this judge will gladly take a dozen or so into their homes.
Start the shipments, pronto.

#94 TimmySmith

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 04:23 AM

Also, I trust our immigration policy and the courts to determine if increased restrictions are necessary. 

This judge ruled the U.S. cannot deny entry to non-Americans from unsafe regions because they have a predominate religion.  It's not a stretch that could be applied to just about anywhere.  Therefore, we can have no policy. 


Did the entire Obama administration use their dog's name as their password?

 


#95 NewbieJr

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 04:23 AM

0-5 now vs.judges. ROFL
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#96 NewbieJr

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 04:26 AM

This judge ruled the U.S. cannot deny entry to non-Americans from unsafe regions because they have a predominate religion.  It's not a stretch that could be applied to just about anywhere.  Therefore, we can have no policy. 

the difference between those countries and anywhere else, as you claim, is that Trump was dumb enough to claim that he was going to do a Muslim ban. They don't have to search real far or make it real complicated to find the bigotry here. Just his own dumb mouth.
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#97 Filthy Fernadez

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 04:38 AM

the difference between those countries and anywhere else, as you claim, is that Trump was dumb enough to claim that he was going to do a Muslim ban. They don't have to search real far or make it real complicated to find the bigotry here. Just his own dumb mouth.

 

The judges have to read the actual E.O. and not try to discern anything other than black and white. They'll get overturned and possibly impeached.  :banana:


BBC for the most part is pretty damn good.


#98 NewbieJr

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 04:40 AM

 
The judges have to read the actual E.O. and not try to discern anything other than black and white. They'll get overturned and possibly impeached.  :banana:

at least you have some hope to hold onto. Between this and the healthcare plan and Mexico paying for the wall, I'm starting to actually feel bad for you guys. It's been a total failure since day one. :(
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#99 Filthy Fernadez

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 04:45 AM

at least you have some hope to hold onto. Between this and the healthcare plan and Mexico paying for the wall, I'm starting to actually feel bad for you guys. It's been a total failure since day one. :(

 

Yeah, your 401k is going apesh!t, government budget coming into shape and criminals are about to face the music. 

 

:banana:         MAGA      :banana:


BBC for the most part is pretty damn good.


#100 NewbieJr

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 04:49 AM

 
Yeah, your 401k is going apesh!t, government budget coming into shape and criminals are about to face the music. 
 
:banana:         MAGA      :banana:

my 401k has been going upwards for years. He's just maintaining the momentum from Obama's years. Those numbers would be the same regardless of who the president was. But I'm pretty sure that you already know that
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#101 Filthy Fernadez

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 04:54 AM

my 401k has been going upwards for years. He's just maintaining the momentum from Obama's years. Those numbers would be the same regardless of who the president was. But I'm pretty sure that you already know that

 

What did the stock market do starting Nov 9th? Just break records is all. That's all Trump.  :pointstosky:


BBC for the most part is pretty damn good.


#102 NewbieJr

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 05:01 AM

 
What did the stock market do starting Nov 9th? Just break records is all. That's all Trump.  :pointstosky:

lol. You know what, despite all economy experts saying otherwise, I'm actually considering letting you run with crediting Trump for it. Bottom line is, my 401k doesn't care why it keeps growing or who gets the credit. But to be honest, I enjoy going back and forth on this stuff every day. And with Health Care, the wall, and the Muslim ban all failing horribly, I would think you guys are close to throwing in the towel and just walking away. And that would make it boring around here. And that's not even mentioning the embarrassment when it is revealed that he made all that Obama wiretapping stuff up and doesn't have Jack for evidence. So go ahead. You can have the stock market. Good for you. Good for Trump. Just don't all you guys leave. Because it's fun rubbing your horrible choice in your face every day.
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#103 kilroy69

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 05:27 AM

 
 
 
Ah, the state of Hawaii brought action... and man, you calling me a hack when everyone, and I mean everyone, here laughs at your "centrist" position, is quite the laugh.  You have proven utterly incapable of seeing this so, I enjoy your response in advance.  :cheers:

this
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#104 MDC

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 06:03 AM

Pow! Donald McDrumpf goes down hard ... again! :lol:
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#105 TimmySmith

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 06:23 AM

Just don't all you guys leave. Because it's fun rubbing your horrible choice in your face every day.

Unlike others, we will not leave.  Winning is just too much fun.   :thumbsup:


Did the entire Obama administration use their dog's name as their password?

 


#106 NewbieJr

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 06:38 AM

Unlike others, we will not leave.  Winning is just too much fun.   :thumbsup:

He's done very little of it so far.  His presidency has gone a lot like Trump University, Trump Steaks, and the USFL.


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#107 penultimatestraw

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 07:20 AM

This judge ruled the U.S. cannot deny entry to non-Americans from unsafe regions because they have a predominate religion.  It's not a stretch that could be applied to just about anywhere.  Therefore, we can have no policy.

I'm OK with that.

#108 Sho Nuff

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 07:21 AM

 
Umm... your argument for his standing for his "scathing rebuke" was the harm to the state of Hawaii.  :dunno:
 
Also you completely disregarded my comment that Hawaii has accepted virtually no refugees from the Middle East, so what exactly is their standing?
 
And you keep concluding with comments about me becoming a loon, but you consistently avoid the substance of my posts, so I'm not really sure how to respond.


What substanc of your posts? Why ning about me not being a centrist? Calling the judge an activist hack? Or your lack of understanding of what the judiciary does in such cases?

#109 Sho Nuff

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 07:23 AM

 
Well, making sh!t up when it's constitutionally sound isn't what they're there for. 
 
It'll go to the SCOTUS and I hope they impeach the judges. 


Who made ###### up? Other than Trump and his wire tapp claims?

That you have no problems with legislators threatening people who would challenge the legality of their actions (or those of the president) is telling.

#110 Sho Nuff

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 07:25 AM

 
I'm saying if it were truly a ban on Muslims, ALL countries that had a majority of Muslims would be included. 


If it was about a threat...countries where terrorists who attacked us have actually come from would have been included.

#111 Sho Nuff

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 07:29 AM

 
Let's assume Trump is targeting a religion.  Does it matter?  Is it your assertion that people who aren't citizens enjoy constitutional protections when trying to immigrate to the U.S.?


Yes it would matter. As courts have ruled. And yes people who are trying to immigrate do enjoy some constitutional protections...for many years the courts have ruled that as part of the 14th amendment. Much of that has been about Illegal Aliens vs visa holders and those seeking refugee status. But it's becoming clear the courts are siding that way too.

#112 Sho Nuff

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 07:30 AM

I'm not outraged, I just think the ban is misguided and discriminatory. I guess we'll see if the courts agree.


Also part of the new Trump republican is that facts don't matter and any disagreement with them is outrage.

#113 Sho Nuff

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 07:32 AM

So, do me a favor, and Google The Following. What does the CIA say about the travel ban?

Pick any story you want from the first page just so you won't think I'm cherry-picking. We have multiple former CIA heads who say that the ban is not only not effective it is counterproductive and makes us less safe. If you really value their opinion and you're not just looking to argue for attention sake, it seems pretty clear to me.


But the fake retired cop thinks he knows about national security...which is why his crutch is always Europe (despite nobody advocating us doing things just like Europe and that being explained to them many times over)

#114 Sho Nuff

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 07:33 AM

We should trust the IC that has been working against Trump since BEFORE he got in office? Let's wait until he clears house before we start viewing them as an objective source.


Again...misguided and ignorant.
No one but Trump is an objective source to you. He trained you well.

#115 Hardcore troubadour

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 07:34 AM

But the fake retired cop thinks he knows about national security...which is why his crutch is always Europe (despite nobody advocating us doing things just like Europe and that being explained to them many times over)


The real housewife of Nashville didn't bother to read what I wrote and made some stuff up, as usual.

#116 Sho Nuff

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 07:35 AM

 
Yeah, your 401k is going apesh!t, government budget coming into shape and criminals are about to face the music. 
 
:banana:         MAGA      :banana:


Budget coming into shape? Hahaha!!!!

#117 penultimatestraw

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 07:37 AM

Trump should declare Hawaii a sanctuary state for the refugees, allow them to only immigrate to there, by the thousands. I'm sure pen and this judge will gladly take a dozen or so into their homes.
Start the shipments, pronto.

No room at my house, but sanctuary counties tend to have lower crime rates and stronger economies, so it probably wouldn't be a bad thing. Doubt I'd notice a difference either way.

#118 Big Guy

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 07:52 AM

President Trump's revised travel ban was put on hold Wednesday by U.S. District Court Judge Derrick Watson in Hawaii just hours before it was set to take effect after hearing arguments that the executive order discriminates on the basis of nationality. According to reports, Watson met with President Obama a day before requested a temporary restraining order on President Trump's new executive order.

 

 

http://redstatewatch...le.asp?id=68118


 "There's a deception here. The audience... they're here to see a man who no longer exists." -- Mitch Cohen, "A Mighty Wind"

 

 

 

 


#119 Sho Nuff

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 07:57 AM

9th circuit comments...even indissemt of the decision not to revisit the first decision...a judge had this to say (basically about Trump.

Finally, I wish to comment on the public discourse that has surrounded these proceedings. The panel addressed the governments request for a stay under the worst conditions imaginable, including extraordinarily compressed briefing and argument schedules and the most intense public scrutiny of our court that I can remember. Even as I dissent from our decision not to vacate the panels flawed opinion, I have the greatest respect for my colleagues. The personal attacks on the distinguished district judge and our colleagues were out of all bounds of civic and persuasive discourseparticularly when they came from the parties. It does no credit to the arguments of the parties to impugn the motives or the competence of the members of this court; ad hominem attacks are not a substitute for effective advocacy. Such personal attacks treat the court as though it were merely a political forum in which bargaining, compromise, and even intimidation are acceptable principles. The courts of law must be more than that, or we are not governed by law at all.


BTW...Maryland and the 9th circuit also deciding to stop the ban

#120 Sho Nuff

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 07:58 AM

President Trump's revised travel ban was put on hold Wednesday by U.S. District Court Judge Derrick Watson in Hawaii just hours before it was set to take effect after hearing arguments that the executive order discriminates on the basis of nationality. According to reports, Watson met with President Obama a day before requested a temporary restraining order on President Trump's new executive order.
 
 
http://redstatewatch...le.asp?id=68118


And?