Self Defense Killing in Florida...Geeks got an opinion?

[gocolts 300]

Thinking of the stand your ground law and seeing gocolts post made me think, would gocolts have to lock his wheel in order to be compliant?

[MDC 5,878]

Wait... What?????

 

Zimmerman was the self-appointed captain of his own neighborhood watch. There may or may not be any other members. He doesn't belong to any official or registered neighborhood watch programs. Those are typically overseen by the police and they have manuals and rules and stuff, like not carrying a gun or approaching / confronting suspicious persons. Zimmerman was some guy playing cop.

[JTB 52]

And here is the best part of all relating to this matter.

 

If Zimmerman is conviceted there will be those who feel it was a wronfull conviction and will argue on this here forearm why they think it was a wrong decision. And things will go away peacefully in short order.

 

 

If Zimmerman is NOT convicted there will be those who feel it was the wrong ruling and will argue on this here forearm why they think it was a wrong decision. AND - There will be a lot of looting and rioting in the streets!

[nikki2200 4]

Yeah, Ok. Cause you haven't been saying this for, oh, like 8 pages:

 

 

 

What did you mean when you said that the guy in charge of collecting all the evidence thought Zimmerman should have to stand trial "as well"? A reasonable person would interpret that as "in adddition to" and in the context of that paragraph one would assume that means in addition to YOU. So excuse me if I don't believe you when you say you don't want him prosecuted. I gotta say, you've set a new bar for looking foolish in this thread. Good job!

 

 

I was responding as if you meant I wanted him convicted because that's what you accused me of in the previous post. My apologies.

 

Yes. I believe he should have to face a jury to determine if he should be indicted. Which is what is supposed to happen. What does that have to do with me wanting to hang him based on irrationality? I already explained my thoughts on this to you and I was pretty clear about it. The whole thing is a focking mess. And Zimmerman will now be unable to get a fair trial. And we have a dead teenager. It stinks.

[KSB2424 3,082]

I'm actually familiar with how the criminal process works and not just from TV shows. Maybe I should have phrased my question differently: based on what you have heard and read, do you think there is enough of a question about the validity of self defense that it should be put in front of a jury?

I don't know all of the evidence, haven't talked to a witness, nor am familiar with Florida law. So who cares what I think.

[Strike 3,950]

I was responding as if you meant I wanted him convicted because that's what you accused me of in the previous post. My apologies.

 

Yes. I believe he should have to face a jury to determine if he should be indicted. Which is what is supposed to happen. What does that have to do with me wanting to hang him based on irrationality? I already explained my thoughts on this to you and I was pretty clear about it. The whole thing is a focking mess. And Zimmerman will now be unable to get a fair trial. And we have a dead teenager. It stinks.

 

You don't know this. Casey Anthony was tried and convicted in the press before she ever went to trial and she was acquitted. In the same state as this case.

 

Oh, and please don't try to pretend you don't want the guy convicted. Hell, I'll admit that I do. When you pretend otherwise you look foolish.

[jerryskids 5,172]

 

I'm thoroughly bum-puzzled at this point.

Nikki's having a bad thread. Luckily for her, she's convinced herself that she is sane and the rest of us are nuts, so things are fine in Nikkiworld.

[Strike 3,950]

Nikki's having a bad thread. Luckily for her, she's convinced herself that she is sane and the rest of us are nuts, so things are fine in Nikkiworld.

 

Shut up Whitey!

[nikki2200 4]

You don't know this. Casey Anthony was tried and convicted in the press before she ever went to trial and she was acquitted. In the same state as this case.

 

Oh, and please don't try to pretend you don't want the guy convicted. Hell, I'll admit that I do. When you pretend otherwise you look foolish.

 

That's true. I just think it's going to be hard to find people that haven't heard about this and formed some sort of opinion on it already.

 

Honestly, I don't know if he should be convicted of actual murder. There is a chance, albeit a very small one in my mind, that what Zimmerman says happened is true. At a minimum, Zimmerman's actions led to the chain of events that ended up with a dead teenager laying on the street. That has to count for something. A couple people have brought up negligent homicide. I'm not sure what that entails, but it seems like a lesser charge that is more along the lines of committing actions that end up leading to a death.

[Strike 3,950]

That's true. I just think it's going to be hard to find people that haven't heard about this and formed some sort of opinion on it already.

 

Honestly, I don't know if he should be convicted of actual murder. There is a chance, albeit a very small one in my mind, that what Zimmerman says happened is true. At a minimum, Zimmerman's actions led to the chain of events that ended up with a dead teenager laying on the street. That has to count for something. A couple people have brought up negligent homicide. I'm not sure what that entails, but it seems like a lesser charge that is more along the lines of committing actions that end up leading to a death.

 

Holy crap. A rational Nikki post in this thread. Did you take a Valium or something?

 

[cyclone24 1,805]

Well well well.....if this case isnt unraveling

 

 

 

Teen witness to Trayvon Martin’s shooting ‘couldn’t see anything’: Mom

13-year-old Austin Brown may have been ‘pressured’ by cops when he gave account

 

 

 

 

Police in Sanford, Fla., have said that Austin Brown, who went out to walk his dog on Feb. 26 near where Trayvon was shot, saw Zimmerman lying in the grass crying for help just before the slaying.

 

But Austin’s mom, Cheryl Brown, told the News that when cops interviewed her son eight days after Trayvon’s death, he told them he saw only one person lying in the grass and he couldn’t tell who it was.

 

“He kept telling them he couldn't see anything because it was too dark,” she said. “He said he couldn't see the race or anything. He never saw a second person. ”

 

“Then they asked him if he saw what the man was wearing. They gave him a multiple choice question and gave him three colors. He said, ‘I think it was red.’”

 

Zimmerman, 28, was wearing a red and black jacket. Trayvon, 17, was wearing a grey hoodie.

 

“Knowing my son, I believe he felt pressured to give the color,” Brown said.

 

“He really couldn't see anything,” she said. “I think when interviewing a 13 year old you don't give them three options.”

 

The new account is another blow to the case that grows increasingly contradictory.

 

One person has told police he saw a man lying on the ground calling for help with an attacker on top of him - an account that backs Zimmerman’s version of what happened.

 

The witness, identified only as “John,” told Tampa Bay Fox affiliate WTVT-TV last week: “The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me: ‘help, help.’”

 

 

 

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/video-george-zimmerman-killing-trayvon-martin-grainy-proves-lawyer-article-1.1052713#ixzz1qXXUNdj2

[nikki2200 4]

Nikki's having a bad thread. Luckily for her, she's convinced herself that she is sane and the rest of us are nuts, so things are fine in Nikkiworld.

 

Do you have anything productive to contribute to this discussion or are you just going to keep slinging insults at me?

[Mungwater 588]

Well well well.....if this case isnt unraveling

 

 

 

Teen witness to Trayvon Martin’s shooting ‘couldn’t see anything’: Mom

13-year-old Austin Brown may have been ‘pressured’ by cops when he gave account

 

 

 

 

Police in Sanford, Fla., have said that Austin Brown, who went out to walk his dog on Feb. 26 near where Trayvon was shot, saw Zimmerman lying in the grass crying for help just before the slaying.

 

But Austin’s mom, Cheryl Brown, told the News that when cops interviewed her son eight days after Trayvon’s death, he told them he saw only one person lying in the grass and he couldn’t tell who it was.

 

“He kept telling them he couldn't see anything because it was too dark,” she said. “He said he couldn't see the race or anything. He never saw a second person. ”

 

“Then they asked him if he saw what the man was wearing. They gave him a multiple choice question and gave him three colors. He said, ‘I think it was red.’”

 

Zimmerman, 28, was wearing a red and black jacket. Trayvon, 17, was wearing a grey hoodie.

 

“Knowing my son, I believe he felt pressured to give the color,” Brown said.

 

“He really couldn't see anything,” she said. “I think when interviewing a 13 year old you don't give them three options.”

 

The new account is another blow to the case that grows increasingly contradictory.

 

One person has told police he saw a man lying on the ground calling for help with an attacker on top of him - an account that backs Zimmerman’s version of what happened.

 

The witness, identified only as “John,” told Tampa Bay Fox affiliate WTVT-TV last week: “The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me: ‘help, help.’”

 

 

 

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/video-george-zimmerman-killing-trayvon-martin-grainy-proves-lawyer-article-1.1052713#ixzz1qXXUNdj2

 

Or could be mom doesn't want her house to be the center of the sh1tstorm is this guy gets off

[nikki2200 4]

Holy crap. A rational Nikki post in this thread. Did you take a Valium or something?

 

 

I am unaware of when I said anything different.

[parrot 789]

Nikki's having a bad thread. Luckily for her, she's convinced herself that she is sane and the rest of us are nuts, so things are fine in Nikkiworld.

 

[Strike 3,950]

I am unaware of when I said anything different.

 

We know. Jerry explained things very well in this regard.

[nikki2200 4]

We know. Jerry explained things very well in this regard.

 

Do you guys puff out your chests and think in your head, "Ooooo I am the coolest most toughest poster on the entire interwebs" when you post this stuff?

 

If you would like to quote me on saying anything at all that veered from what I posted above, I would be happy to look at it. Happy hunting.

[cyclone24 1,805]

Uh oh....valiums wearing off.

[Cruzer 1,992]

No blood, no cut on back of head, no broken nose. If his nose had been broken, he'd have blood all over his shirt. His face would be all swollen.

 

If he had a "gash" on the back of his head, that was "treated at the scene" there would be blood on the back of his jacket, and he would have a bandage on his head. When I hear "gash" I think stitches, no evidence of that either.

 

And if there had been any blood, the cops would all be wearing rubber gloves.

 

I do not see any signs of what Zimms claims to have happened either. I don't even see any signs of grass stains or being on the ground.

[nikki2200 4]

Well well well.....if this case isnt unraveling

 

 

 

Teen witness to Trayvon Martin’s shooting ‘couldn’t see anything’: Mom

13-year-old Austin Brown may have been ‘pressured’ by cops when he gave account

 

 

 

 

Police in Sanford, Fla., have said that Austin Brown, who went out to walk his dog on Feb. 26 near where Trayvon was shot, saw Zimmerman lying in the grass crying for help just before the slaying.

 

But Austin’s mom, Cheryl Brown, told the News that when cops interviewed her son eight days after Trayvon’s death, he told them he saw only one person lying in the grass and he couldn’t tell who it was.

 

“He kept telling them he couldn't see anything because it was too dark,” she said. “He said he couldn't see the race or anything. He never saw a second person. ”

 

“Then they asked him if he saw what the man was wearing. They gave him a multiple choice question and gave him three colors. He said, ‘I think it was red.’”

 

Zimmerman, 28, was wearing a red and black jacket. Trayvon, 17, was wearing a grey hoodie.

 

“Knowing my son, I believe he felt pressured to give the color,” Brown said.

 

“He really couldn't see anything,” she said. “I think when interviewing a 13 year old you don't give them three options.”

 

The new account is another blow to the case that grows increasingly contradictory.

 

One person has told police he saw a man lying on the ground calling for help with an attacker on top of him - an account that backs Zimmerman’s version of what happened.

 

The witness, identified only as “John,” told Tampa Bay Fox affiliate WTVT-TV last week: “The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me: ‘help, help.’”

 

 

 

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/video-george-zimmerman-killing-trayvon-martin-grainy-proves-lawyer-article-1.1052713#ixzz1qXXUNdj2

 

When this whole story first came out, one of the witnesses told the media that she reported to the police that she heard Trayvon screaming for help, and the police officer corrected her and said, "You mean Zimmerman." I think that is one of the things that sent this whole case sprawling out of control because it smelled like a police cover up.

 

I still don't understand why not one voice recognition expert in the whole country with some free time on their hands has done a comparison of Zimmerman's voice and the voice screaming for help on the 911 tapes. Not that it would close the case or anything, but it would be interesting to know for sure.

[DankNuggs 305]

When this whole story first came out, one of the witnesses told the media that she reported to the police that she heard Trayvon screaming for help, and the police officer corrected her and said, "You mean Zimmerman." I think that is one of the things that sent this whole case sprawling out of control because it smelled like a police cover up.

 

I still don't understand why not one voice recognition expert in the whole country with some free time on their hands has done a comparison of Zimmerman's voice and the voice screaming for help on the 911 tapes. Not that it would close the case or anything, but it would be interesting to know for sure.

It would be interesting. The facts as reported remains that the singular eye witness who could differentiate the two people saw Zimmerman in the defensive position yelling for help. The rest of the statements are inconclusive. Still doesn't mean that deadly force was warranted,

[DankNuggs 305]

I do not see any signs of what Zimms claims to have happened either. I don't even see any signs of grass stains or being on the ground.

The vid is pretty blurry, but I don't see anything either that would lead me to believe he was just in a life or death struggle.

[parrot 789]

The vid is pretty blurry, but I don't see anything either that would lead me to believe he was just in a life or death struggle.

 

That was my initial impression as well, but there are some enhanced stills floating around that do seem to show a pretty good wound on his head.

[jerryskids 5,172]

Do you have anything productive to contribute to this discussion or are you just going to keep slinging insults at me?

 

I've contributed plenty. And I was quite adult earlier when I tried to discuss the census link, and your response was a couple two three , a few OMG LOLZRs, and a statement about the failure of the education system. Or am I confusing you with a different poster?

[SUXBNME 1,322]

Anyone want to give me the cliff notes for this thread?

 

Just the usual crap...Who won, who is a retard, etc...

 

tia

[nikki2200 4]

I've contributed plenty. And I was quite adult earlier when I tried to discuss the census link, and your response was a couple two three , a few OMG LOLZRs, and a statement about the failure of the education system. Or am I confusing you with a different poster?

 

Was that before or after you came in saying I was going full retard and I was the new torridjoe? I can't remember. TIA.

[IGotWorms 3,302]

It's a reasonable conclusion. The defense doesn't have to prove self defense. They only have to make it sound possible. If it sounds even remotely possible then the jury has reasonable doubt.

 

That is probably not true. Self defense is usually an affirmative defense. Meaning that the defendant has to prove it, not that the prosecutor has to disprove it beyond a reasonable doubt.

[nikki2200 4]

The vid is pretty blurry, but I don't see anything either that would lead me to believe he was just in a life or death struggle.

 

Same here. I don't know how the law works when it comes to self-defense, but it seems like there should be a reasonable threat to your life to be justified in shooting someone. He didn't look banged up at all. I couldn't tell if he did actually have a cut on his head. If there was one, it didn't look like anything very serious at all.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

I've been one that thinks the investigation should run it's course before making a decision. However, that was before the release of a grainy video that shows nothing.

 

Now I'm leaning toward the death penalty.

[jerryskids 5,172]

Was that before or after you came in saying I was going full retard and I was the new torridjoe? I can't remember. TIA.

Fair enough. I apologized for that though, and explained the reference.

[BunnysBastatrds 1,911]

I just heard that the victims parents are suing the makers of Skittles for a billion dollars.

[IGotWorms 3,302]

they put an up close view of the back of Zimmerman's head on split screen and you can CLEARLY see the the head wound.

 

I can see a little boo-boo that didn't even require a bandage, not a "head wound"

[Strike 3,950]

That is probably not true. Self defense is usually an affirmative defense. Meaning that the defendant has to prove it, not that the prosecutor has to disprove it beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

The defense only has to create reasonable doubt. If a self defense argument is even marginally credible it should be enough to create reasonable doubt.

[penultimatestraw 473]

OK. I'll rephrase my statement. WHITE Hispanics are categorized as WHITE in all US census reporting.

 

OMG. Seriously, I'm done with this conversation.

We need to see a birth certificate. Long form.

[BudBro 116]

We need to see a birth certificate. Long form.

that was before 2008. new laws, new rules, new game.

[remote controller 133]

Spike Lee is a twizzle stick!

[gocolts 300]

I can see a little boo-boo that didn't even require a bandage, not a "head wound"

:rolleyes: Looks like multiple lumps and a 3 inch gash.

 

My link

[IGotWorms 3,302]

The defense only has to create reasonable doubt. If a self defense argument is even marginally credible it should be enough to create reasonable doubt.

 

WRONG. Google "affirmative defense"

[IGotWorms 3,302]

:rolleyes: Looks like multiple lumps and a 3 inch gash.

 

My link

 

That picture says it is "enhanced". So...

[gocolts 300]

That picture says it is "enhanced". So...

So.... it looks like more than a boo boo and also supports Zimmerman's story.