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Nick Foles is so damn good


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#41 thegame

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Posted 30 December 2018 - 08:38 AM

You do realize that your opinion of Foles is tremendously in the minority, right?

No it isnt. Its remarkable that all over message boards its about 19 to 1 in favor of Wentz and Im astonished that few people want to even discuss a rational argument for why Foles might be the better option. Let me just lay this out as something to ponder. Im not even saying if I were the GM I would keep Foles but I damn sure would do more than a cursory evaluation of the situation.

Its never going to happen that the Eagles choose Foles over Wentz as the entire front offices fortunes are tied to Wentz. Yes, Wentz had a heck of a streak last year going 11-2 but the world of sports is full of stories of players that have one amazing run during their careers. To call him Aaron Rodgers at this point in his career is foolish and an insult to Rodgers. He's not there yet. For all of Wentzs terrific measurables, he's been hurt four years in a row and two of those injuries should raise serious concerns long term. He has come up small in 4th quarter comeback situations whereas Foles shines under the most pressure filled circumstances. The team loves playing for Foles and it shows as they came alive against their two toughest opponents to date under him. I believe the pressure of winning one for Wentz exhausted the team and now that Foles is in there they are playing loose and with confidence. Also, Doug flat out calls a better and more balanced game with Foles. They run more and Foles spreads the wealth better than Wentz and also releases the ball faster and trusts his teammates to make plays. I believe Foles still suffers from knocks on his playing in years past and he's grown wiser and better and thats not to say Wentz wont also improve with age and experience (assuming he can stay healthy). Wentz is known to hold the ball too long and although hes like Houdini out there, that has to wear on the o-line having to spend far longer maintaining blocks.

Its entirely possible teams have gotten the book on Wentz a bit this year. They catch up sooner or later. Look at Mahomes: it looked like he'd throw 5 tds a game and never lose at one point. Not so much now. Wentz would be in extremely rarified air if he has a long and successful career as a division 2 player. As far as I understand he'd join only McNair and Flacco with that distinction. Wentz did not benefit from the grinding competition that D1 players go through. Time will tell if Wentz can adjust.

On the other hand, Wentz is 6 years younger than Foles and that obviously is a monumental consideration. But is it completely preposterous to at least consider what this team could be with Foles who turns 30 in January combined with the Kings ransom the team could fetch for trading Wentz? Think of the resources that could be added to the team. Think of how much the cap is going to be eaten up by Wentz's next contract. The damaged knee, the fractured back. All on a 24 year old frame. Also, I personally feel troubled that Wentz likely knew long before anyone else that he wasn't right and yet kept himself in. Thats not the mark of a true team first guy. I understand he's human and that it must have ate at him terribly to do so much last year yet not win the super bowl and now the same movie is playing again. It has to eat at him. He's driven to the Nth degree and its understandable. But still. Foles has demonstrated he's the better leader.

Id also like to add that Foles suffers a lot of whataboutism regarding his streakiness. First of all, throw out the Jeff Fisher year. That clown would ruin any QB. Secondly, Foles took over last year and played well in the finish of the Rams game and then won a shootout next week against the Giants throwing 4 tds I believe. And then the northeast was hit with a brutal cold snap. The game against the Raiders was 14 below wind chill. The next week against Dallas, the game was in 8 degree weather. NFL teams don't look good offensively in such cold conditions. Foles hit Torrey Smith through the hands for what would have been a 60 yard TD before the starters got pulled. No one remembers that. Two weeks later the temps were still damn cold and the Eagles beat the Falcons in a low scoring game. Next week, the weather warmed up and Foles blew the doors off the Vikings and then again against the Patriots.

Bottom line: Wentz has every measurable over Folesthe type of measurables that get you picked #2 overall. Hes younger too. But Foles has those intangible qualities of the truly great ones that fell far in the draft because they lacked the measurables but still went on to win multiple titles. Montana and Brady ring a bell?

Anyway, there is probably no way the organization keeps Foles over Wentz and hopefully that will prove to be the wise decision. But its not a 99-1 argument either. Its absolutely possible that Eagles fans look back a few years from now if Wentz proves to be either snake bitten or just not in the class of a Rodgers or a combination of both and wonder to themselves what could have been...
At least in my humble opinion.

Appologies guys, something about this board removes my apostrophes...

#42 kilroy69

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Posted 30 December 2018 - 09:33 AM

Foles will go to the jags. Because that's what the jags do.
Its still not a hummingbird.

#43 Frozenbeernuts

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Posted 30 December 2018 - 12:40 PM

No it isnt. Its remarkable that all over message boards its about 19 to 1 in favor of Wentz and Im astonished that few people want to even discuss a rational argument for why Foles might be the better option. Let me just lay this out as something to ponder. Im not even saying if I were the GM I would keep Foles but I damn sure would do more than a cursory evaluation of the situation.

Its never going to happen that the Eagles choose Foles over Wentz as the entire front offices fortunes are tied to Wentz. Yes, Wentz had a heck of a streak last year going 11-2 but the world of sports is full of stories of players that have one amazing run during their careers. To call him Aaron Rodgers at this point in his career is foolish and an insult to Rodgers. He's not there yet. For all of Wentzs terrific measurables, he's been hurt four years in a row and two of those injuries should raise serious concerns long term. He has come up small in 4th quarter comeback situations whereas Foles shines under the most pressure filled circumstances. The team loves playing for Foles and it shows as they came alive against their two toughest opponents to date under him. I believe the pressure of winning one for Wentz exhausted the team and now that Foles is in there they are playing loose and with confidence. Also, Doug flat out calls a better and more balanced game with Foles. They run more and Foles spreads the wealth better than Wentz and also releases the ball faster and trusts his teammates to make plays. I believe Foles still suffers from knocks on his playing in years past and he's grown wiser and better and thats not to say Wentz wont also improve with age and experience (assuming he can stay healthy). Wentz is known to hold the ball too long and although hes like Houdini out there, that has to wear on the o-line having to spend far longer maintaining blocks.

Its entirely possible teams have gotten the book on Wentz a bit this year. They catch up sooner or later. Look at Mahomes: it looked like he'd throw 5 tds a game and never lose at one point. Not so much now. Wentz would be in extremely rarified air if he has a long and successful career as a division 2 player. As far as I understand he'd join only McNair and Flacco with that distinction. Wentz did not benefit from the grinding competition that D1 players go through. Time will tell if Wentz can adjust.

On the other hand, Wentz is 6 years younger than Foles and that obviously is a monumental consideration. But is it completely preposterous to at least consider what this team could be with Foles who turns 30 in January combined with the Kings ransom the team could fetch for trading Wentz? Think of the resources that could be added to the team. Think of how much the cap is going to be eaten up by Wentz's next contract. The damaged knee, the fractured back. All on a 24 year old frame. Also, I personally feel troubled that Wentz likely knew long before anyone else that he wasn't right and yet kept himself in. Thats not the mark of a true team first guy. I understand he's human and that it must have ate at him terribly to do so much last year yet not win the super bowl and now the same movie is playing again. It has to eat at him. He's driven to the Nth degree and its understandable. But still. Foles has demonstrated he's the better leader.

Id also like to add that Foles suffers a lot of whataboutism regarding his streakiness. First of all, throw out the Jeff Fisher year. That clown would ruin any QB. Secondly, Foles took over last year and played well in the finish of the Rams game and then won a shootout next week against the Giants throwing 4 tds I believe. And then the northeast was hit with a brutal cold snap. The game against the Raiders was 14 below wind chill. The next week against Dallas, the game was in 8 degree weather. NFL teams don't look good offensively in such cold conditions. Foles hit Torrey Smith through the hands for what would have been a 60 yard TD before the starters got pulled. No one remembers that. Two weeks later the temps were still damn cold and the Eagles beat the Falcons in a low scoring game. Next week, the weather warmed up and Foles blew the doors off the Vikings and then again against the Patriots.

Bottom line: Wentz has every measurable over Folesthe type of measurables that get you picked #2 overall. Hes younger too. But Foles has those intangible qualities of the truly great ones that fell far in the draft because they lacked the measurables but still went on to win multiple titles. Montana and Brady ring a bell?

Anyway, there is probably no way the organization keeps Foles over Wentz and hopefully that will prove to be the wise decision. But its not a 99-1 argument either. Its absolutely possible that Eagles fans look back a few years from now if Wentz proves to be either snake bitten or just not in the class of a Rodgers or a combination of both and wonder to themselves what could have been...
At least in my humble opinion.

Appologies guys, something about this board removes my apostrophes...


Very well said. A good dive into why Foles numbers weren't great to start his relief last year. People ignore things like that for some reason. They judge too much based on the stat sheet.

Plain and simple, Foles has accuracy and quick release that very few qbs have. The only edge Wentz has is that houdini act, and like you said, that has to wear on his teammates. The reason Wentz has to hold the ball that long? He just doesn't read the field as well as guys like Foles, which is unequivocally the better overall qb.

#44 nobody

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Posted 31 December 2018 - 03:21 AM

Nate Sudfeld is obviously the best QB of them all.

#45 RoadLizard

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Posted 31 December 2018 - 05:59 AM

It should be obvious that Foles is the better overall QB and the eagles ought to make him their guy going forward. Wentz is damaged goods....can’t stay healthy which is the kiss of death for any NFL player.

#46 Frozenbeernuts

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Posted 31 December 2018 - 09:29 AM

Did you see that Foles just tied the record for most consecutive completions? He isn't a dink and dunk passer either. Damn he is good. If the Bears didn't have Tribs, I would want Foles as their qb. The Eagles are going to screw this decision up in the offseason

#47 jrokh

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Posted 31 December 2018 - 09:32 AM

It's not a decision for the Eagles, I doubt they can pay a backup 19 million. Wentz is their QB, as he would be for every Team in football. I admire your passion but you don't know more about football then Doug Peterson

#48 Frozenbeernuts

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Posted 31 December 2018 - 09:49 AM

It's not a decision for the Eagles, I doubt they can pay a backup 19 million. Wentz is their QB, as he would be for every Team in football. I admire your passion but you don't know more about football then Doug Peterson


I can guarantee that Pederson knows Foles is better. There is just too much pressure from mouth breather fans to keep Wentz. Fans would literally rather have the worse qb just because he was drafted higher. That's the mind set of most the NFL.

#49 jrokh

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Posted 31 December 2018 - 09:52 AM

You can guarantee that? How exactly? If you know Pederson and have a direct line to his thought process, than cool, I stand corrected. Otherwise u are talking out of your arse. As a Giants fan I would love for you to be right and not deal with Wentz for the next decade. Sadly, I know you aren't

#50 listen2me 23

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Posted 31 December 2018 - 09:53 AM

I had the same stance on him last year durung his run.

I think he would be an upgrade for several teams. Or a great backup. Assuming there is a real market for him (should be a lot of QB needy teams) then I would imagine he will be overpaid.

#51 Gepetto

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Posted 31 December 2018 - 12:35 PM

Cardinals should go after Foles.  Rosen looks like a bust.



#52 nobody

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Posted 31 December 2018 - 12:37 PM

Did you see that Foles just tied the record for most consecutive completions? He isn't a dink and dunk passer either. Damn he is good. If the Bears didn't have Tribs, I would want Foles as their qb. The Eagles are going to screw this decision up in the offseason


Foles is better than trubisky. If the Bears were smart they would be looking to acquire Foles. He's a super bowl MVP for Christ's sake.

#53 Frozenbeernuts

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Posted 31 December 2018 - 01:57 PM

Foles is better than trubisky. If the Bears were smart they would be looking to acquire Foles. He's a super bowl MVP for Christ's sake.


Right now Foles is better. Trubisky has a ceiling that is as high as it gets though. Trubisky is a hell of a runner, which is Foles greatest weakness

#54 TimmySmith

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Posted 31 December 2018 - 02:03 PM

After all the math is done, Foles is the better option.  


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#55 nobody

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Posted 31 December 2018 - 02:52 PM

Right now Foles is better. Trubisky has a ceiling that is as high as it gets though. Trubisky is a hell of a runner, which is Foles greatest weakness


The bears will beat Foles because they have a crazy defense, but they can't win a super bowl with Trubisky. With Foles they would win this year and next. I'd trade that for ceiling. Bears need to get Foles ASAP.

#56 Frozenbeernuts

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Posted 31 December 2018 - 03:44 PM

The bears will beat Foles because they have a crazy defense, but they can't win a super bowl with Trubisky. With Foles they would win this year and next. I'd trade that for ceiling. Bears need to get Foles ASAP.

I think that is wrong. I think the Bears absolutely can win a SB with Trubisky. There are a rare few QBs who have the pure ability Trubisky does. It has been mentioned many times how he did not have the same grooming that most QBs have before they get to the NFL. His accuracy, arm strength, release time, and running ability are in rare company. Reading the field and confidence are the two areas that need improving, but from what I have seen, it's definitely possible for those things to get better. Now if we are at the end of next year and we haven't seen much improvement on reading the defense and confidence, I will be concerned that he may not have what it takes to be elite.