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The real truth about Columbine


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#41 peenie

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 03:37 PM

so it's okay to start bullying again?
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#42 parrot

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 03:39 PM

so it's okay to start bullying again?

peenie made a funny! :rolleyes:

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.   - Hanlon's Razor. 

 

 

 

 

 

 


#43 wiffleball

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 03:43 PM

I was also editing that post to give more detail when it was responded to.


Uh huh. :rolleyes:

End of the day, you have millions of people believing a total lie. A lie perpetrated by a greedy mother and a Fundie Church to sell Millions of books based upon a lie. And if it DID happen? Nice way to rob that role from the real person. - Perhaps her family should sue for royalties. :dunno:

Nice. - "Oh, it wasn't her, but it really did happen!!"

Oh, and Jesus didn't really die on the cross, but SOMEONE did!!! And Mary wasn't really a virgin - but SOMEONE was!! :shocking:

That's just semantics! :cry:
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#44 naomi

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 03:51 PM

Uh huh. :rolleyes:


No...really.

But to give more details, give the name of the girl (Valee Schneer) who survived and says she was asked that, and talk about the guy who thought it was Cassie but pointed investigators to where Schneer was found.

What you thought was me going back on what I said in the post wasn't that anyway:

Here's what I'm not as sure about: A student witness, Jason Lapp is the one that claimed Cassy had that exchange. A student that survived says it was with her...and the official investigation concluded that it was actually with her.


Her = girl that survived. Didn't mean that as Cassie.

Anyway, I'm not going to lie about something like that, and given my FIRST post, it wouldn't seem like I would have much incentive to anyway. My flow of thought was on the fact that while Cassie's story was being rightfully dismissed, what I didn't get...as in wasn't sure about, is that the story applied to someone else.

"For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do." Hebrews 4:12-13

 

 


#45 parrot

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 03:54 PM

There are no atheists in foxholes, or the Columbine lunch room.

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.   - Hanlon's Razor. 

 

 

 

 

 

 


#46 tikigods

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 03:57 PM

so it's okay to start bullying again?


It's always been ok to bully. People like recliner pilot need to know they're at the bottom of the pecking order.

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#47 GobbleDog

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 04:00 PM

"These are not ordinary kids who played too many video games. These are not ordinary kids who just wanted to be famous. These are simply not ordinary kids. These are kids with serious psychological problems."


Has there ever been a mass murderer in the history of the world who wasn't later diagnosed with psychological problems? I've never heard of one, but surely there has to have been at least one sane mass murderer along the way. Just once I'd like to hear... "the killer murdered dozens of people, but amazingly - he's completely normal. Apparently, he was just really ticked off."

:rolleyes:

#48 naomi

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 04:04 PM

Has there ever been a mass murderer in the history of the world who wasn't later diagnosed with psychological problems? I've never heard of one, but surely there has to have been at least one sane mass murderer along the way. Just once I'd like to hear... "the killer murdered dozens of people, but amazingly - he's completely normal. Apparently, he was just really ticked off."

:rolleyes:


Not going to agree with Eric but it sounds like he would tell you he's that guy:

Eric: "My parents are the best ###### parents I have ever known. My dad is great. I wish I was a ###### sociopath so I didn't have any remorse, but I do. This is going to tear them apart. They will never forget it." He then addresses his parents directly, if briefly: "There is nothing you guys could have done to prevent any of this. There is nothing that anyone could have done to prevent this. No one is to blame except me and Vodka. Our actions are a two man war against everyone else."

"For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do." Hebrews 4:12-13

 

 


#49 peenie

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 04:06 PM

peenie made a funny! :doublethumbsup:

yay!!!!!!!!!!!! it's my first one! ((group hug))
Peenie gives good thread. -MedStudent
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#50 wiffleball

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 04:09 PM

Anyway, I'm not going to lie about something like that, and given my FIRST post, it wouldn't seem like I would have much incentive to anyway. My flow of thought was on the fact that while Cassie's story was being rightfully dismissed, what I didn't get...as in wasn't sure about, is that the story applied to someone else.


So, your pronoun problems notwithstanding, and assuming these people aren't lying (somebody is). you're okay to blithely blow past (and apparently acknowledge) that Cassie's Fundie Mom and her Church stole the story of one true Christian and applied it to another person entirely - and made a ton of money?

You're okay with the idea that People are changing their lives based upon a lie?

Gee, where has that happened before??
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#51 jets24

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 04:10 PM

What bothers me more than any of this is Wiffle's big concern with getting this incredible news out. Who focking cares Wiffle? Seriously. I don't even remember that even being a story about Columbine. Why devote time to create a thread, get links, etc. You couldn't care less about the "truth" of anything. The minute you are confronted with it, you disappear from the thread. :doublethumbsup:
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#52 naomi

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 04:14 PM

So, your pronoun problems notwithstanding, and assuming these people aren't lying (somebody is). you're okay to blithely blow past (and apparently acknowledge) that Cassie's Fundie Mom and her Church stole the story of one true Christian and applied it to another person entirely - and made a ton of money?

You're okay with the idea that People are changing their lives based upon a lie?

Gee, where has that happened before??

Wiff I DID speak to that, it's at the top of post 20. Years ago I read Rachel Scott's journals and saw Cassie's book being advertised but back then I heard allegations that she was really never in that position. That is crappy, and I said that, but I guess I also don't expect much from a lot of so-called Christian sectors. So that's why I'll just give it one sentence (or maybe two if I did) and not share your outrage. Unfortunately having that kind of :doublethumbsup: is an old feeling personally. Things like this are just more added to the messed up file.

Now there's a chance Cassie's parents really want to believe that happened, so they do. They don't realize it for what it is because of wanting to honor their daughter. It's crappy but that's better than outright profiting from something you really don't believe happened. Jason Lapp's memory of it being Cassy certainly doesn't help the case if Valee Schneer and the investigators are right.

"For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do." Hebrews 4:12-13

 

 


#53 tikigods

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 04:19 PM

What bothers me more than any of this is Wiffle's big concern with getting this incredible news out. Who focking cares Wiffle? Seriously. I don't even remember that even being a story about Columbine. Why devote time to create a thread, get links, etc. You couldn't care less about the "truth" of anything. The minute you are confronted with it, you disappear from the thread. :doublethumbsup:


Dude....

The socialist school districts have used this whole bullying argument to implement their socialist agendas against guns and teasing. Everyone now is a "victim" and everything will turn into a "Columbine" if a kid gets teased.

The right wing chest beat themselves that our "godless" children were listening to Marilyn Manson coupled with their lack of the Bible lead them to this. I know...I listened to one of the victim's fathers last year.

This is a big deal. I just bought Cullen's book on Amazon after seeing this thread. I'm curious about what other bullshiit we were fed.

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#54 tikigods

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 04:21 PM

I read Rachel Scott's journals


This was the victim's father who was pushing his Christian bullshiit on our local school district. I forget his first name but this was his daughter.

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#55 jets24

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 04:22 PM

Dude....

The socialist school districts have used this whole bullying argument to implement their socialist agendas against guns and teasing. Everyone now is a "victim" and everything will turn into a "Columbine" if a kid gets teased.

The right wing chest beat themselves that our "godless" children were listening to Marilyn Manson coupled with their lack of the Bible lead them to this. I know...I listened to one of the victim's fathers last year.

This is a big deal. I just bought Cullen's book on Amazon after seeing this thread. I'm curious about what other bullshiit we were fed.


Of course it's a big deal to you. You have your tongue up Wiffle's azzhole.
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#56 naomi

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 04:24 PM

Regarding the idea that Dylan and Eric didn't have a problem with being bullying: (not saying they were bullied, but they seemed to think they were...also not saying I agree with all the anti-bullying stuff in the event they were bullied and it was a big factor for them). They couldn't deal with human nature coming back at them in that case then, and would have problems down the line too:

Anyway so regarding that idea:


"We're proving ourselves," they tell the camera and go on to discuss their philosphies. Eric says he isn't spending much time with his family, so that there won't be any "bonding" and "this won't be harder to do".

Eric: "I'm sorry I have so much rage, but you put it on me."

Eric then complains about his father and how his family had to move five times. He says he always had to be the new kid in school, and was always at the bottom of the "food chain", and had no chance to earn any respect from his peers as he always had to "start out at the bottom of the ladder". He hated the way people made fun of him: "my face, my hair, my shirts." He's wearing a t-shirt that has the words "Wilder Wein" printed on it -- he references the shirt several times during the video but never explains what it means. [Wilder Wein is a song written by Rammstein.]

Eric: "More rage. More rage." (motions with his hands for emphasis) "Keep building it on."

Dylan: "If you could see all the anger I've stored over the past four ###### years..."

Dylan then recalls how popular and athletic his older brother Byron was and how he constantly "ripped" on him, as did his brother's friends. According to Dylan, with the exception of his parents, his extended family treated him like the runt of the litter.

Dylan: "You made me what I am. You added to the rage."

Dylan says that as far back as the Foothills Day Care center he hated the "stuck-up" kids who he felt hated him. "Being shy didn't help. I'm going to kill you all. You've been giving us ###### for years."

Dylan: "###### you Walsh."

"For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do." Hebrews 4:12-13

 

 


#57 naomi

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 04:24 PM

This was the victim's father who was pushing his Christian bullshiit on our local school district. I forget his first name but this was his daughter.

How did he push it?

"For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do." Hebrews 4:12-13

 

 


#58 tikigods

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 04:25 PM

Of course it's a big deal to you. You have your tongue up Wiffle's azzhole.


I should have expected a short bus reply from you. You're incapable of having a semi-intelligent conversation.

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#59 jets24

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 04:27 PM

This was the victim's father who was pushing his Christian bullshiit on our local school district. I forget his first name but this was his daughter.


You really are ignorant, huh? The man is a Christian. His daughter was a Christian. It's amazing to me that somebody who lost his daughter can still have strong faith. God Bless Rachel Scott and her family. :doublethumbsup:
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#60 jets24

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 04:28 PM

I should have expected a short bus reply from you. You're incapable of having a semi-intelligent conversation.


I believe you were the one who started with "pushing his Christian bullsh!t", correct? :doublethumbsup:
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#61 tikigods

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 04:30 PM

How did he push it?


He read this....the same one he read in front of Congress:

"Since the dawn of creation there has been both good & evil in the hearts of men and women. We all contain the seeds of kindness or the seeds of violence. The death of my wonderful daughter, Rachel Joy Scott, and the deaths of that heroic teacher, and the other eleven children who died must not be in vain. Their blood cries out for answers." "The first recorded act of violence was when Cain slew his brother Abel out in the field.

The villain was not the club he used. Neither was it the NCA, the National Club Association. The true killer was Cain, and the reason for the murder could only be found in Cain's heart. "In the days that followed the Columbine tragedy, I was amazed at how quickly fingers began to be pointed at groups such as the NRA.

I am not a member of the NRA. I am not a hunter. I do not even own a gun. I am not here to represent or defend the NRA - because I don't believe that they are responsible for my daughter's death. Therefore I do not believe that they need to be defended. If I believed they had anything to do with Rachel's murder I would be their strongest opponent."

"I am here today to declare that Columbine was not just a tragedy-it was a spiritual event that should be forcing us to look at where the real blame lies! Much of the blame lies here in this room.

Much of the blame lies behind the pointing fingers of the accusers themselves. "I wrote a poem that expresses my feelings best. This was written way before I knew I would be speaking here today:"

Your laws ignore our deepest needs,
Your words are empty air.
You've stripped away our heritage,
You've outlawed simple prayer.

Now gunshots fill our classrooms,
And precious children die.
You seek for answers everywhere,
And ask the question "Why?"

You regulate restrictive laws,
Through legislative creed.
And yet you fail to understand,
That God is what we need!

"Men and women are three-part beings. We all consist of body, soul, and spirit. When we refuse to acknowledge a third part of our make-up, we create a void that allows evil, prejudice, and hatred to rush in and reek havoc. Spiritual influences were present within our educational systems for most of our nation's history. Many of our major colleges began as theological seminaries. This is a historical fact.

What has happened to us as a nation? We have refused to honor God, and in so doing, we open the doors to hatred and violence. And when something as terrible as Columbine's tragedy occurs politicians immediately look for a scapegoat such as the NRA. They immediately seek to pass more restrictive laws that contribute to erode away our personal and private liberties.

We do not need more restrictive laws." Eric and Dylan would not have been stopped by metal detectors. No amount of gun laws can stop someone who spends months planning this type of massacre. The real villain lies within our own hearts.

Political posturing and restrictive legislation are not the answers. The young people of our nation hold the key. There is a spiritual awakening taking place that will not be squelched! We do not need more religion. We do not need more gaudy television evangelists spewing out verbal religious garbage. We do not need more million dollar church buildings built while people with basic needs are being ignored.

We do need a change of heart and a humble acknowledgment that this nation was founded on the principle of simple trust in God!" "As my son Craig lay under that table in the school library and saw his two friends murdered before his very eyes, He did not hesitate to pray in school. I defy any law or politician to deny him that right!

I challenge every young person in America, and around the world, to realize that on April 20, 1999, at Columbine High School prayer was brought back to our schools. Do not let the many prayers offered by those students be in vain. Dare to move into the new millennium with a sacred disregard for legislation that violates your God-given right to communicate with Him. To those of you who would point your finger at the NRA- I give to you a sincere challenge.

Dare to examine your own heart before casting the first stone! My daughter's death will not be in vain! The young people of this country will not allow that to happen!"


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#62 jets24

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 04:33 PM

He read this....the same one he read in front of Congress:


I agree wholeheartedly with what he said. God Bless him for having the courage to say it. :doublethumbsup:
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#63 tikigods

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 04:34 PM

I agree wholeheartedly with what he said. God Bless him for having the courage to say it. :doublethumbsup:


I agree with the all the parts dealing with strict gun laws and metal detectors....however I don't think it had anything to do with God, Marilyn Manson, or violent video games either.

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#64 jets24

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 04:36 PM

I agree with the all the parts dealing with strict gun laws and metal detectors....however I don't think it had anything to do with God, Marilyn Manson, or violent video games either.


That's the difference between you and I. Also, you mentioned his "Christian bullsh!t" was pushed on you, yet there is no mention of Christianity or Christ in his reading. Was there more?
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#65 tikigods

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 04:38 PM

That's the difference between you and I. Also, you mentioned his "Christian bullsh!t" was pushed on you, yet there is no mention of Christianity or Christ in his reading. Was there more?


It's a tip: READ it.

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#66 jets24

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 04:40 PM

It's a tip: READ it.


Just did again. Still don't see the mention of Christ or Christianity.
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#67 parrot

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 04:45 PM

"Men and women are three-part beings. We all consist of body, soul, and spirit. When we refuse to acknowledge a third part of our make-up, we create a void that allows evil, prejudice, and hatred to rush in and reek havoc.


Interesting that he'd use the word "prejudice" when making about as prejudiced a statement as you'll ever see.

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.   - Hanlon's Razor. 

 

 

 

 

 

 


#68 Yer mom

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 04:47 PM

I remember a time in 3rd grade this 6th grader was trying to bully me, I threw my bubble gum ice cream cone at his face and peddled away quickly on my orange huffy

Thats how I fockin roll :unsure:
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#69 parrot

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 04:54 PM

I remember a time in 3rd grade this 6th grader was trying to bully me, I threw my bubble gum ice cream cone at his face and peddled away quickly on my orange huffy

Thats how I fockin roll :unsure:


That's badass yo.

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.   - Hanlon's Razor. 

 

 

 

 

 

 


#70 Yer mom

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 05:32 PM

That's badass yo.


I conveniently left out how my cranks were so small that 1000 rotations netted me about six feet, giving him time to race me down and kick my ass :unsure:
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#71 Green Street Elite

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Posted 24 April 2009 - 08:20 AM

Read David Cullen's book "Columbine". A lot of what we thought we knew about this shooting was not even true. No girl was asked if she believed in God before she was shot. The Evangelical Christians used this as a recruiting tool to their churches. Harris and Klebold were not bullied. They were the bullies. Cops knew about their intentions because Brooks Brown's parents had reported Eric Harris to the police on numerous occasions. The police even had a warrant drawn up a year before the shooting and failed to act on it.

American schools used this shooting to institute their socialist agendas.

Right winged fundamentalists used it to increase their church rolls.

Anti-gun lobbyists used it to attack honest gun owners.

The sad thing about all of this....13 innocent kids died that day and if police had acted in a responsible manner after being alerted by the Browns it may have never happened.

Terrible. :thumbsdown:

#72 tikigods

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Posted 24 April 2009 - 08:28 AM

I'm reading Columbine right now. I should be finished with it by the end of the day. Cullen did a bang up job of getting the story straight.

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#73 wiffleball

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Posted 24 April 2009 - 08:55 AM

He read this....the same one he read in front of Congress:

:first:

No, but he wasn't pushing bullshiit or nuffin...


:pointstosky:
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#74 wiffleball

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Posted 24 April 2009 - 09:02 AM

What has happened to us as a nation? We have refused to honor God, and in so doing, we open the doors to hatred and violence.


Yes, because God knows "honoring God" hasn't resulted in some of the bloodiest periods of hatred and violence throughout history. :pointstosky:

So Columbine happened because we refused to honor God. Where else have we heard soemthing like that? Oh yeah, on 9/11:

JERRY FALWELL: And, I know that I'll hear from them for this. But, throwing God out successfully with the help of the federal court system, throwing God out of the public square, out of the schools. The abortionists have got to bear some burden for this because God will not be mocked. And when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God mad. I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way -- all of them who have tried to secularize America -- I point the finger in their face and say "you helped this happen."

PAT ROBERTSON: Well, I totally concur, and the problem is we have adopted that agenda at the highest levels of our government. And so we're responsible as a free society for what the top people do. And, the top people, of course, is the court system..

http://www.actupny.o...LL/falwell.html

Christians, huh? Truly a credible bunch. - No different than blaming the Jews for Germany's woes. :first:
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#75 tikigods

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Posted 24 April 2009 - 09:16 AM

:first:

No, but he wasn't pushing bullshiit or nuffin...
:unsure:


The girl who was the supposed martyr in the library....all bullshiit. Apparently the Evangelical Bible-thumpers are a large part of the Littleton Colorado community. They got a hardon over hearing Cassie Bernall's story...problem was it wasn't true. Harris knocked on the library table and said "Peekaboo" then kneeled down and shot her in the head. The kick back of the sawed off shotgun broke Harris' nose. Cassie Bernall never said one word to Harris before he shot her point blank in the head.

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#76 wiffleball

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Posted 24 April 2009 - 09:18 AM

The girl who was the supposed martyr in the library....all bullshiit. Apparently the Evangelical Bible-thumpers are a large part of the Littleton Colorado community. They got a hardon over hearing Cassie Bernall's story...problem was it wasn't true. Harris knocked on the library table and said "Peekaboo" then kneeled down and shot her in the head. The kick back of the sawed off shotgun broke Harris' nose. Cassie Bernall never said one word to Harris before he shot her point blank in the head.


Yep. I believe we talked about that on page one. (not the nose part)

Fill me in on the possy cop / security guard who ran away please. :unsure:

I bet it was "The Blade".
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#77 tikigods

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Posted 24 April 2009 - 09:29 AM

Yep. I believe we talked about that on page one. (not the nose part)

Fill me in on the possy cop / security guard who ran away please. :unsure:

I bet it was "The Blade".


Cullen mentioned him briefly but didn't go into much detail about him running away. Apparently he was leaving for lunch. :first: Sounds like something Recliner Whiner would say.

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#78 wiffleball

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Posted 24 April 2009 - 09:39 AM

Cullen mentioned him briefly but didn't go into much detail about him running away. Apparently he was leaving for lunch. :first: Sounds like something Recliner Whiner would say.


Dammit! That focker has gotten a total pass. Harris ran out of ammo and the possy STILL just "called for backup". It took TWO focking hours for heavily armed SWAT teams to finally wander into the school.

But hey - great job of yelling at, pointing your rifles at and generally terrorizing allready traumatized teenagers in the process. :D

Focking jerkoffs. The Sherrif then did a HUGE coverup to cover his own arse.

The Blade's colleagues ladies and gentlemen. :unsure:
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#79 tikigods

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Posted 24 April 2009 - 09:46 AM

Dammit! That focker has gotten a total pass. Harris ran out of ammo and the possy STILL just "called for backup". It took TWO focking hours for heavily armed SWAT teams to finally wander into the school.

But hey - great job of yelling at, pointing your rifles at and generally terrorizing allready traumatized teenagers in the process. :rolleyes:

Focking jerkoffs. The Sherrif then did a HUGE coverup to cover his own arse.

The Blade's colleagues ladies and gentlemen. :rolleyes:


Cullen exposes the whole cover up by the Jeffco Sheriff's department.

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#80 wiffleball

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Posted 24 April 2009 - 09:51 AM

Cullen exposes the whole cover up by the Jeffco Sheriff's department.


Good. leave it to American to turn transform a tragedy into a political charlie-foxtrot.
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