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#1 AlvinGreeneAllStars

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 08:36 AM

If Jones is back this week do you start him over Demarco Murray? I keep reading that when Jones comes back he will be the starter, do you believe that he is worth starting as a #2 or a Flex option this week if healthy or would you let him ride the pine one more week.

#2 Little Rusty

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 08:49 AM

As both a Cowboy fan and owner of both RB's on my team...

Murray is now the Man !

I think Felix will without a doubt cut into his numbers though, most likely the 1st couple games after he comes back. It shouldn't take long for Felix to either get hurt again or to disappoint now that we know how good Demarco is.

I personally have faith in Murray and will be starting him.

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#3 mlmeloy

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 08:49 AM

I've got both and feel comfortable starting Murray this week. I doubt that Felix plays, but if he does he won't get a ton of carries. They're not giving him 20 carries his first week back with Murray sitting there. More like 5-10.

#4 Borat33

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 09:11 AM

Felix will be at most a 3rd down back. He sucks d!ck.

#5 Cruzer

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 09:27 AM

As Clowny Jones said on his radio appearance y-day, don't put too much stock into who actually "starts". As he pointed out, neither back actually started in college. Jones certainly didn't and Murray didn't start until his senior year...... Even if, and that's a big if, Jones starts - still look for Murray to get the majority of the touches.



#6 R8RMick

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 09:34 AM

The word in the metroplex is that Clowny is going to take care of his fellow Arkansas alum by giving him a job parking cars at Valley Ranch...
"The floggings will continue until morale improves..."

#7 Cruzer

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 09:51 AM

The word in the metroplex is that Clowny is going to take care of his fellow Arkansas alum by giving him a job parking cars at Valley Ranch...

Oh God I hope not, Felix would trip over a cone and seperate a shoulder - be out another 4 weeks. :D

#8 SameSongNDance

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 09:54 AM

After watching Murray run, the general consensus is that Felix will be a non-issue for the rest of the year. I would be shocked if Murray didn't dominate that backfield from here on out.

#9 Cruzer

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 09:56 AM

After watching Murray run, the general consensus is that Felix will be a non-issue for the rest of the year. I would be shocked if Murray didn't dominate that backfield from here on out.

Agreed. Unfortunately if anybody can fock up a sure thing it's this coaching staff and GM. :wall:

#10 R8RMick

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 10:33 AM

Agreed. Unfortunately if anybody can fock up a sure thing it's this coaching staff and GM. :wall:


Don't blame Garrett, as he'll have minimal say in the matter.
"The floggings will continue until morale improves..."

#11 Maroon Bells

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 10:44 AM

I believe that had Jones been healthy for those games, you would've seen a similar output. I think the Cowboys may believe that too. Still, based on their body and running styles, I think you'll see Murray and Jones fall into a 65/35 split with Murray getting the majority of carries, and Jones getting 3rd downs and every third series or so. It should actually be a very effective split for the Cowboys, but a maddening one for fantasy owners of both.

#12 jpcdds

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 11:27 AM

I believe that had Jones been healthy for those games, you would've seen a similar output. I think the Cowboys may believe that too. Still, based on their body and running styles, I think you'll see Murray and Jones fall into a 65/35 split with Murray getting the majority of carries, and Jones getting 3rd downs and every third series or so. It should actually be a very effective split for the Cowboys, but a maddening one for fantasy owners of both.



Well... your smoking something! you act like 250 yds in a game is something anyone could just about do. Something Jones hasn't ever come close too or ever will. The numbers would not be similar... they are what they are cause Murray ran the ball. Jones will be a nice 3rd down back when he returns from and right before he goes back on the inactive list. :bench:

#13 Filthy Fernadez

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 11:43 AM

Agreed. Unfortunately if anybody can fock up a sure thing it's this coaching staff and GM. :wall:


I know you're right but I hope you're wrong. :cry:

Murray SHOULD be the man but the coaches might overthink things like Shanny; 'Let's keep them guessing who will be the RB1".

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#14 Maroon Bells

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 11:58 AM

Well... your smoking something! you act like 250 yds in a game is something anyone could just about do. Something Jones hasn't ever come close too or ever will. The numbers would not be similar... they are what they are cause Murray ran the ball. Jones will be a nice 3rd down back when he returns from and right before he goes back on the inactive list. :bench:


Ever hear of Jerome Harrison? Comes in for an injured Jamal Lewis and runs for 286 yards in one game. Finishes the year rushing for 561 and 5 TDs in the final 3 games. The next year, he's once again a backup, spends the next couple of years bouncing between Philly, Detroit and his oncologist.

Is Murray the next Harrison? I don't think so. For one, Murray's pedigree is much better. But just keep this in mind: Jones played the Jets, the 49ers, went over 100 against the Redskins, played Detroit, then got hurt. Murray comes in against the Rams and the Eagles, two of the worst run defenses in the NFL. What's more, do you know what defenses do when a backup QB or RB comes in? They change their defense and force the backup to beat them. Well, he did exactly that. I'm not saying the Murray hasn't done well with his opportunity. He has. I'm even saying that he's earned the right to start over Jones. You can't argue with production. If I'm the Cowboys, I'd start Murray and give him the starting nod and 65%, just like I said. But I wouldn't be surprised if over the long term you see Jones returning to a significant role in that offense.

#15 WhiteWonder

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 12:01 PM

I own both backs in multiple leagues. I find it funny how everyone was on felixs nuts in the preseason when he looked great and now that he has been playing hurt he sucks ######. Granted his injuries are always frustrating but when healthy why does he suddenly suck?

Don't be surprised with a 50/50 split.

I'm hoping Murray gets the lions share simply to help my fantasy team but I still think its amazing how the Felix sentiment did a 180.

#16 DexterMorgan

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 12:02 PM

Ever hear of Jerome Harrison? Comes in for an injured Jamal Lewis and runs for 286 yards in one game. Finishes the year rushing for 561 and 5 TDs in the final 3 games. The next year, he's once again a backup, spends the next couple of years bouncing between Philly, Detroit and his oncologist.

Is Murray the next Harrison? I don't think so. For one, Murray's pedigree is much better. But just keep this in mind: Jones played the Jets, the 49ers, went over 100 against the Redskins, played Detroit, then got hurt. Murray comes in against the Rams and the Eagles, two of the worst run defenses in the NFL. What's more, do you know what defenses do when a backup QB or RB comes in? They change their defense and force the backup to beat them. Well, he did exactly that. I'm not saying the Murray hasn't done well with his opportunity. He has. I'm even saying that he's earned the right to start over Jones. You can't argue with production. If I'm the Cowboys, I'd start Murray and give him the starting nod and 65%, just like I said. But I wouldn't be surprised if over the long term you see Jones returning to a significant role in that offense.


If you watch both of them play it's glaringly obvious who is better.

#17 DexterMorgan

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 12:03 PM

I own both backs in multiple leagues. I find it funny how everyone was on felixs nuts in the preseason when he looked great and now that he has been playing hurt he sucks ######. Granted his injuries are always frustrating but when healthy why does he suddenly suck?

Don't be surprised with a 50/50 split.

I'm hoping Murray gets the lions share simply to help my fantasy team but I still think its amazing how the Felix sentiment did a 180.


He doesn't suddenly suck, He's always been this way. He can't create any additional yards, he's got speed and that's it.

#18 Cruzer

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 12:10 PM

He doesn't suddenly suck, He's always been this way. He can't create any additional yards, he's got speed and that's it.

Perfectly stated - dead on. Jones is good, but why play good when you have phenomenal too? Jones never has, never will, have the vision Murray has - nor will he ever have the abiltity to change direction and explode thru new lanes.

#19 Maroon Bells

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 12:15 PM

If you watch both of them play it's glaringly obvious who is better.


I don't think it's glaringly obvious at all. I think it's glaringly obvious that Jones is the quicker, more elusive runner. I think it's glaringly obvious that Murray breaks more tackles, has proven to be durable, and has been much more productive, albeit against inferior defenses. Since those are the only things that are glaringly obvious, I'd start Murray and give him 65%, like I said.

#20 WhiteWonder

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 12:19 PM

Perfectly stated - dead on. Jones is good, but why play good when you have phenomenal too? Jones never has, never will, have the vision Murray has - nor will he ever have the abiltity to change direction and explode thru new lanes.

That's not my point. I'm not debating which back is better, I'm debating the drones who were all over felixs junk now he suddenly sucks. But we all knew he was injury prone. Nothing has changed

#21 Cruzer

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 12:43 PM

That's not my point. I'm not debating which back is better, I'm debating the drones who were all over felixs junk now he suddenly sucks. But we all knew he was injury prone. Nothing has changed

Well, I'm not one of the drones. I've said many times Felix is a "good" back. Murray, however, is a phenomenal back - with skills Jones simply does not possess. But I have little faith Clowny and co. will see the writing on the wall, totally expect them to fock up this opportunity.

#22 Little Rusty

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 12:47 PM

If you watch both of them play it's glaringly obvious who is better.


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#23 DexterMorgan

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 01:13 PM

I don't think it's glaringly obvious at all. I think it's glaringly obvious that Jones is the quicker, more elusive runner. I think it's glaringly obvious that Murray breaks more tackles, has proven to be durable, and has been much more productive, albeit against inferior defenses. Since those are the only things that are glaringly obvious, I'd start Murray and give him 65%, like I said.


Yes, No.

#24 Maroon Bells

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 01:27 PM

Here's someone who agrees with me:

Jones v. Murray

I asked our man Matt Williamson of Scouts Inc. what he thought of Murray and of this debate, and this is what he emailed back:

"You certainly cannot argue with his production. Pretty amazing really. But overall, I see a decisive downhill runner with good size, burst, power and speed. He was drafted to be a huge help as a receiver and was considered one of the most pass-friendly RBs in this past draft, but we havenít seen a lot of that yet. But I would imagine we will soon. But I also think that Murray is very straight-linish. He does not change directions smoothly or crisply. Big picture, I still think Jones has more talent, but Murray has more sustaining qualities and physicality. Both need to play, but as it stands today, I would probably give Murray 2/3 of the carries when Jones comes back."


#25 DexterMorgan

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 01:29 PM

Here's someone who agrees with me:

Jones v. Murray

I asked our man Matt Williamson of Scouts Inc. what he thought of Murray and of this debate, and this is what he emailed back:

"You certainly cannot argue with his production. Pretty amazing really. But overall, I see a decisive downhill runner with good size, burst, power and speed. He was drafted to be a huge help as a receiver and was considered one of the most pass-friendly RBs in this past draft, but we haven’t seen a lot of that yet. But I would imagine we will soon. But I also think that Murray is very straight-linish. He does not change directions smoothly or crisply. Big picture, I still think Jones has more talent, but Murray has more sustaining qualities and physicality. Both need to play, but as it stands today, I would probably give Murray 2/3 of the carries when Jones comes back."


Watch the run where he goes out at the 1 yard line from this past weeks game. Direct contradiction to this line. He starts left, show excellent vision to see the cutback lane open up, Cuts right and gets to top speed very quickly.

I don't believe Felix Jones makes that cutback.

EDIT: Full Disclosure. I've always been a Felix Jones hater. I just don't think he's a special talent.

#26 Ray_T

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 01:33 PM

Here's someone who agrees with me:

Jones v. Murray

I asked our man Matt Williamson of Scouts Inc. what he thought of Murray and of this debate, and this is what he emailed back:

"You certainly cannot argue with his production. Pretty amazing really. But overall, I see a decisive downhill runner with good size, burst, power and speed. He was drafted to be a huge help as a receiver and was considered one of the most pass-friendly RBs in this past draft, but we havenít seen a lot of that yet. But I would imagine we will soon. But I also think that Murray is very straight-linish. He does not change directions smoothly or crisply. Big picture, I still think Jones has more talent, but Murray has more sustaining qualities and physicality. Both need to play, but as it stands today, I would probably give Murray 2/3 of the carries when Jones comes back."


I'd agree. Even if the coaching staff wanted to start Felix, they wont bring him back and give him a full workload. Murray will get at least one more start with Felix getting about 8-10 carries.

At that point anything could happen, but I do believe that regardless of who is listed as the starter.....if Jones can keep healthy, this will evolve into a committee situation. If jones gets hurt again, Murray will become the permanent starter unless his production proves he cannot handle it.

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#27 DexterMorgan

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 01:50 PM

No practice Wed. for Felix.

#28 sirensong

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 01:56 PM

Don't blame Garrett, as he'll have minimal say in the matter.


disagree. garrett's 'leash' has been discussed extensively in the local media. if you look back through the various coaches during the jerry era, they fall into 2 categories--caretakers and controllers. guys like switzer, gailey, and phillips were caretakers--primarily teachers and coordinators with little control over the entire organization. OTOH, johnson and parcells insistend on (and got) a lot of control over the team they put on the field. and those fans who have been around for all of them will notice that jones' behavior with garrett at the helm has resembled that of the johnson/parcells eras rather than the various caretaker regimes.

as to the OP's question, murray is going to get more touches because he's earned tham, and he is going to do more with those touches. felix cuts into his value somewhat, because the guy is absolutely a weapon in space--he has proven that. at least initially, i would expect about 18 touches for murray, and 9-12 for felix. if felix continues to falter, expect murray to move towards featured-back touches.

but as a FF owner, i would start murray over felix without hesitation.

#29 jpcdds

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 02:37 PM

Here's someone who agrees with me:

Jones v. Murray

I asked our man Matt Williamson of Scouts Inc. what he thought of Murray and of this debate, and this is what he emailed back:

"You certainly cannot argue with his production. Pretty amazing really. But overall, I see a decisive downhill runner with good size, burst, power and speed. He was drafted to be a huge help as a receiver and was considered one of the most pass-friendly RBs in this past draft, but we haven’t seen a lot of that yet. But I would imagine we will soon. But I also think that Murray is very straight-linish. He does not change directions smoothly or crisply. Big picture, I still think Jones has more talent, but Murray has more sustaining qualities and physicality. Both need to play, but as it stands today, I would probably give Murray 2/3 of the carries when Jones comes back."



Bet this guy had Spiller as he overall best back in the 2010 draft too... i could give 2 darns what some guy at scouts inc says. The eyeball test is all i need and my eyeballs say Murray is better than Jones. And everyone keeps saying Jones is faster than Murray but both run sub 4.4 40's. I'll take DM everyday of the week and twice on sundays!

#30 R8RMick

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 02:46 PM

disagree. garrett's 'leash' has been discussed extensively in the local media. if you look back through the various coaches during the jerry era, they fall into 2 categories--caretakers and controllers. guys like switzer, gailey, and phillips were caretakers--primarily teachers and coordinators with little control over the entire organization. OTOH, johnson and parcells insistend on (and got) a lot of control over the team they put on the field. and those fans who have been around for all of them will notice that jones' behavior with garrett at the helm has resembled that of the johnson/parcells eras rather than the various caretaker regimes.



Sorry, and I know you live in the metroplex as well, I just can't buy the notion that Clownie doesn't have full and complete control over any situation he sees fit to rule on, and that includes game plans and player involvement as well. Respectfully, I've never seen an owner, much less a GM (which he proclaims his real title is), meddle in the day-to-day functions of a team like this jackass. For crying out loud, he does post game RADIO interviews from the locker room when they win. WHAT GM does that???

I've got extensive experience with meddling owners, being a Raider fan, and I know the signs. I'd have more respect for Jones if he just put on a Fedora and got his ass down on the sidelines with a head-microphone and clipboard on gameday.
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#31 R8RMick

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 02:58 PM

I think what's lost here is a brilliant opportunity for the Dallas Cowboys to really establish an identity. Maybe it's just me, but watching this team since 2008 I've noticed that when they commit to the run they are pretty tough to beat. And to me, that means getting the rock to one guy and letting him carry the load. Since 2008, this team has averaged about 4.5 ypc rushing. In that time span, over three years, there's been instances where a single running back has gone over 20 carries in a game just nine times. In those games they are 8-1, with the lone loss being the game in Pittsburgh they lost after being up by 17 in the 4th quarter. Last year Felix Jones averaged 4.3 ypc but only recieved more than 20 carries once.

I swear if this team would quit screwing around trying to get cute with the passing, and commit to a running game with a feature back getting into the flow of a game, they would be much more successful. They've split up their carries for years, and it hasn't guaranteed the health of any of their running backs.
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#32 sirensong

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 03:10 PM

Sorry, and I know you live in the metroplex as well, I just can't buy the notion that Clownie doesn't have full and complete control over any situation he sees fit to rule on, and that includes game plans and player involvement as well. Respectfully, I've never seen an owner, much less a GM (which he proclaims his real title is), meddle in the day-to-day functions of a team like this jackass. For crying out loud, he does post game RADIO interviews from the locker room when they win. WHAT GM does that???

I've got extensive experience with meddling owners, being a Raider fan, and I know the signs. I'd have more respect for Jones if he just put on a Fedora and got his ass down on the sidelines with a head-microphone and clipboard on gameday.


i agree that he can (and has) put his nose way too far into football operations, i just think that garrett is more empowered than the caretaker guys i listed. i can completely see jerry calling jason into the office and saying "i want felix to be fully integrated into the gameplan", but i don't really see him saying "felix needs 15 carries and murray needs 10" or anything like that. furthermore, i see garrett as having enough sack not to buckle to something like that--JG is a fighter, and he always has been. all garrett cares about is performance on the field, and all jones cares about is winning another super bowl. at this point in time, i think those two mindsets align very well, and jones is letting garrett develop his vision for the team.

i could be wrong, but that's the feel i get.

#33 Maroon Bells

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 03:16 PM

I think what's lost here is a brilliant opportunity for the Dallas Cowboys to really establish an identity. Maybe it's just me, but watching this team since 2008 I've noticed that when they commit to the run they are pretty tough to beat. And to me, that means getting the rock to one guy and letting him carry the load. Since 2008, this team has averaged about 4.5 ypc rushing. In that time span, over three years, there's been instances where a single running back has gone over 20 carries in a game just nine times. In those games they are 8-1, with the lone loss being the game in Pittsburgh they lost after being up by 17 in the 4th quarter. Last year Felix Jones averaged 4.3 ypc but only recieved more than 20 carries once.

I swear if this team would quit screwing around trying to get cute with the passing, and commit to a running game with a feature back getting into the flow of a game, they would be much more successful. They've split up their carries for years, and it hasn't guaranteed the health of any of their running backs.


Definitely agree with this. I'm not a Cowboy fan, but I watch a lot of their games, and I've never seen a more bewilderingly pass-happy team... especially on 2nd down. If I were an NFL OC I would run the ball probably 75% of the time on 2nd down. 2nd down, in my opinion, is the running down. If it's 2nd and short, run it, you might get it. And then you have a great opportunity to throw on first down. If it's 2nd and long, run it to set up 3rd and short. The worst thing in football is 3rd and long. Besides, you've GOT to run the ball to wear down defenses, to set up play action, to give your own defense a rest. I've always gotten the feeling that Jerry Jones more often plays for the fans than to win.

#34 Kingstowne Dealers

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 03:54 PM

Ever hear of Jerome Harrison? Comes in for an injured Jamal Lewis and runs for 286 yards in one game. Finishes the year rushing for 561 and 5 TDs in the final 3 games. The next year, he's once again a backup, spends the next couple of years bouncing between Philly, Detroit and his oncologist.

Is Murray the next Harrison? I don't think so. For one, Murray's pedigree is much better. But just keep this in mind: Jones played the Jets, the 49ers, went over 100 against the Redskins, played Detroit, then got hurt. Murray comes in against the Rams and the Eagles, two of the worst run defenses in the NFL. What's more, do you know what defenses do when a backup QB or RB comes in? They change their defense and force the backup to beat them. Well, he did exactly that. I'm not saying the Murray hasn't done well with his opportunity. He has. I'm even saying that he's earned the right to start over Jones. You can't argue with production. If I'm the Cowboys, I'd start Murray and give him the starting nod and 65%, just like I said. But I wouldn't be surprised if over the long term you see Jones returning to a significant role in that offense.


How dare you come into this thread spouting logical analysis of the situation? :nono: Don't you know that Demarco is the best Coxboys player in the history of life! :P

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#35 Pavlov

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 04:18 PM

If all I get out of Murray is Harrison's end-of-year production from 2009, I'll be thrilled. All I need is a reliable #2 RB.
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#36 Filthy Fernadez

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 05:54 PM

I think what's lost here is a brilliant opportunity for the Dallas Cowboys to really establish an identity. Maybe it's just me, but watching this team since 2008 I've noticed that when they commit to the run they are pretty tough to beat.


Fantastic point that I'd like to add to.......

Put the ball into Murray's capable hands and control the clock thus the tempo of the game. We know what happens when they put the ball into Romo's hands too frequently........

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