Jump to content



Photo

NFL: Saints put out bounties on opposing players


  • Please log in to reply
136 replies to this topic

#81 Truck Jackson

Truck Jackson

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 143 posts

Posted 25 March 2012 - 05:04 PM

National Estrogen League


NEL ? ?

I don't.. you don't.. nm.

#82 JT

JT

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 11,925 posts

Posted 26 March 2012 - 09:22 AM

I don't think there is any difference. Defensive players have always wanted to crush and knock people out of the game. Paid or not with a bounty bonus. The NFL has gone soft. The National Estrogen League has begun.

If every team fined defensive players for missed tackles, that's not a bounty plan?
I know I'm getting fined if this dude keeps running? I guess I'll try to murder everyone I hit so they go down. Goodell is a clown.


The "team" didn't fine anyone. The players, in their kangaroo court setting, did so.

Once the "team" ie "employer" becomes involved, it's an entirely different situation.

And when convicted felons are pledging $10,000 for anyone that injures a specific player, you're getting much deeper into very murky waters.

To argue with a man who has renounced his reason is like giving medicine to the dead. Thomas Paine

 

We are buried beneath the weight of information, which is being confused with knowledge; quantity is being confused with abundance and wealth with happiness. We are monkeys with money and guns. Tom Waits
 

The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason- Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac (1758)

 

 


#83 Kent

Kent

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 2,418 posts

Posted 26 March 2012 - 12:01 PM

The "team" didn't fine anyone. The players, in their kangaroo court setting, did so.

Once the "team" ie "employer" becomes involved, it's an entirely different situation.

And when convicted felons are pledging $10,000 for anyone that injures a specific player, you're getting much deeper into very murky waters.


The game they're all playing if football. Its not tennis out there.

Defensive coaches all preach to crush offensive players every single day. Because its football. The employer is involved in this message. The players are paid for this action. There is no difference between paying a guy to crush someone and paying a guy a bounty to crush someone. The message is the same, bounty or not. So what's the difference?

Watch, there will be no bounty programs and guess what, defensive coaches will still preach to kill the other guy and defensive players will still try to kill the other players in 2013.

Its a feel good story for Goodell and his ego that he's eliminating a seedy element in football. Its only a feel good "story" because it means nothing. It changes nothing. Its football.

The 49ers were KILLING dude's all year last year. It was a sight to see. It was great football. They weren't on a bounty. So what's the real difference? This whole thing is a joke and its all about Goodell and his ego and his attempt to emasculate the defense in football to keep the franchise players on the field earning money for the NFL and selling jerseys/tickets. Its a disservice to the game. Its a tragedy he went completely overboard on the Saints. Vilma is going to get suspended for playing football last year. Watch.

Shouldn't they suspend Patrick Willis. The 49ers paid him a huge salary last year and told him to crush people. Shouldn't they suspend everyone?

#84 Patriotsfatboy1

Patriotsfatboy1

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 29,791 posts

Posted 26 March 2012 - 12:12 PM

The game they're all playing if football. Its not tennis out there.

Defensive coaches all preach to crush offensive players every single day. Because its football. The employer is involved in this message. The players are paid for this action. There is no difference between paying a guy to crush someone and paying a guy a bounty to crush someone. The message is the same, bounty or not. So what's the difference?

Watch, there will be no bounty programs and guess what, defensive coaches will still preach to kill the other guy and defensive players will still try to kill the other players in 2013.

Its a feel good story for Goodell and his ego that he's eliminating a seedy element in football. Its only a feel good "story" because it means nothing. It changes nothing. Its football.

The 49ers were KILLING dude's all year last year. It was a sight to see. It was great football. They weren't on a bounty. So what's the real difference? This whole thing is a joke and its all about Goodell and his ego and his attempt to emasculate the defense in football to keep the franchise players on the field earning money for the NFL and selling jerseys/tickets. Its a disservice to the game. Its a tragedy he went completely overboard on the Saints. Vilma is going to get suspended for playing football last year. Watch.

Shouldn't they suspend Patrick Willis. The 49ers paid him a huge salary last year and told him to crush people. Shouldn't they suspend everyone?


I couldn't disagree with you more. The 49'ers are not being paid to "crush" guys. They are paid to make plays, some of which include tackling. There is a huge difference in playing physical and playing dirty (with intent to injure).

There are some players (see: Brandon Merriweather) that teams are going to steer clear of because they spear and tackle in ways that are causing 15 yarders.
Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son.

#85 Kent

Kent

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 2,418 posts

Posted 26 March 2012 - 12:19 PM

I couldn't disagree with you more. The 49'ers are not being paid to "crush" guys. They are paid to make plays, some of which include tackling. There is a huge difference in playing physical and playing dirty (with intent to injure).

There are some players (see: Brandon Merriweather) that teams are going to steer clear of because they spear and tackle in ways that are causing 15 yarders.


Then why weren't they Saints flagged for illegal hits? Its football. They were just making plays according to the refs.

Tell Pierre Thomas in the 49ers v Saints playoff game that when he got killed because that gentleman who blew him up helmut first was just making a play. He knocked PT out of the game. It instantly changed the game for the Saints. Its incredibly naive to think coaches and players on the 49ers last year played with no intent to knock players out of the game. You are delusional if you think so. Every defense in the league wants to knock players out of the game. You know it. I know it. But its a nice story to think they don't and its all good will.

Give me a break.

#86 Patriotsfatboy1

Patriotsfatboy1

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 29,791 posts

Posted 26 March 2012 - 12:30 PM

Then why weren't they Saints flagged for illegal hits? Its football. They were just making plays according to the refs.

Tell Pierre Thomas in the 49ers v Saints playoff game that when he got killed because that gentleman who blew him up helmut first was just making a play. He knocked PT out of the game. It instantly changed the game for the Saints. Its incredibly naive to think coaches and players on the 49ers last year played with no intent to knock players out of the game. You are delusional if you think so. Every defense in the league wants to knock players out of the game. You know it. I know it. But its a nice story to think they don't and its all good will.

Give me a break.


Ummm. They were flagged for penalties. If you look at the defensive personal fouls from 2009-2011, the Saints were the 3rd most flagged team out there. The Lions led the way (hello, Suh).
Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son.

#87 Kent

Kent

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 2,418 posts

Posted 26 March 2012 - 12:37 PM

Ummm. They were flagged for penalties. If you look at the defensive personal fouls from 2009-2011, the Saints were the 3rd most flagged team out there. The Lions led the way (hello, Suh).


So why weren't the #1 and #2 most flagged teams for personal fouls suspending coaches? You think they weren't trying to knock players out of the game? Its disingenuous for Goodell to say that only the Saints wanted to knock players out with intent to injure. At the end of the day all defensive players are being payed in some shape or form to knock guys out. Its NFL football. These guys aren't playing for free.

You think teams aren't trying to knock people out of games. You are on an island there.

#88 Patriotsfatboy1

Patriotsfatboy1

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 29,791 posts

Posted 26 March 2012 - 12:41 PM

So why weren't the #1 and #2 most flagged teams for personal fouls suspending coaches? You think they weren't trying to knock players out of the game? Its disingenuous for Goodell to say that only the Saints wanted to knock players out with intent to injure. At the end of the day all defensive players are being payed in some shape or form to knock guys out. Its NFL football. These guys aren't playing for free.

You think teams aren't trying to knock people out of games. You are on an island there.


Those other teams might have a bounty program. I don't know that they do or don't. Do you have any proof?

The league knew that the Saints had the bounty program, that they lied about it and that they were taking money in from KNOWN FELONS.

You just don't get it. It was wrong when they did it, it was wrong when they lied and it is still wrong now that they have been caught.
Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son.

#89 Kent

Kent

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 2,418 posts

Posted 26 March 2012 - 01:06 PM

Those other teams might have a bounty program. I don't know that they do or don't. Do you have any proof?

The league knew that the Saints had the bounty program, that they lied about it and that they were taking money in from KNOWN FELONS.

You just don't get it. It was wrong when they did it, it was wrong when they lied and it is still wrong now that they have been caught.


It was never wrong because I draw no distinction between paying players a salary to knock people out of game and a bounty program. The NFL is one giant bounty program for defenses at the end of the day. Its the nature of the game. Goodell is attempting to warp it. He can't, but he's all about image at the expense of teams. He crushed the Saints. He didn't change a thing. Its a joke.

#90 Patriotsfatboy1

Patriotsfatboy1

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 29,791 posts

Posted 26 March 2012 - 01:09 PM

It was never wrong because I draw no distinction between paying players a salary to knock people out of game and a bounty program. The NFL is one giant bounty program for defenses at the end of the day. Its the nature of the game. Goodell is attempting to warp it. He can't, but he's all about image at the expense of teams. He crushed the Saints. Its a joke.


Goodell is trying to warp it? From your apologist point of view, I think you might want to look in the mirror. :dunno:
Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son.

#91 Kent

Kent

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 2,418 posts

Posted 26 March 2012 - 01:10 PM

Goodell is trying to warp it? From your apologist point of view, I think you might want to look in the mirror. :dunno:


I'm not an apologist. I'm a realist. All defenses want to knock guys out of games. You are deluded thinking they aren't preaching this and trying to do this.

#92 TD Ryan2

TD Ryan2

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 17,749 posts

Posted 26 March 2012 - 01:32 PM

I'm not an apologist. I'm a realist. All defenses want to knock guys out of games. You are deluded thinking they aren't preaching this and trying to do this.

Kent - the spirit of what you're saying is correct.
But you have to understand that a "Team Sanctioned Bounty System" is taking it to another level than what it has always been.

Usually it's the "inmates" that do this themselves (and a blind eye is turned) but now the Organization is running the pool...
think NCAA Pools/Brackets - your company probably has a policy against such things, BUT they turn a blind eye to the pool that's run by "Joe in accounting" every year... it's a whole different ballgame if the Company itself starts running that pool, there's a much larger can of worms opened there, legally and otherwise.

So, like I said earlier in this thread - I have mixed feelings on the whole issue, but I do understand why you can't let a team "formalize" these types of side-bets.

#93 titans&bucs&bearsohmy!

titans&bucs&bearsohmy!

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 12,527 posts

Posted 26 March 2012 - 02:38 PM

It was never wrong because I draw no distinction between paying players a salary to knock people out of game and a bounty program. The NFL is one giant bounty program for defenses at the end of the day. Its the nature of the game. Goodell is attempting to warp it. He can't, but he's all about image at the expense of teams. He crushed the Saints. He didn't change a thing. Its a joke.


This is an absurd argument.

The NFL teams pay defensive players to STOP offensive players. Tell em a funny joke, tickle em, wrap em up and throw them down, whatever.

What the bounty program did is to incentivize not only STOPPING them, but HURTING them. So I'm a line backer. I now know that if I wrap up and sack Brett Favre, I'll get a high five, a fist bump, and a butt slap. But instead, I'll lead with my head, or dive at his knee, because now I'll get those, plus 15k.

And if you want to make the argument "ah, 15k ain't crap to those guys" you are wrong. Rich people who used to be poor still think poor, and they want that money. They may P!ss it away at a strip club later, but they want it.
Christianity is the most ridiculous, the most absurd and bloody religion that has ever infected the world.
-- Voltaire (The French one, not the Chinese one)

#94 Kent

Kent

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 2,418 posts

Posted 26 March 2012 - 04:20 PM

This is an absurd argument.

The NFL teams pay defensive players to STOP offensive players. Tell em a funny joke, tickle em, wrap em up and throw them down, whatever.

What the bounty program did is to incentivize not only STOPPING them, but HURTING them. So I'm a line backer. I now know that if I wrap up and sack Brett Favre, I'll get a high five, a fist bump, and a butt slap. But instead, I'll lead with my head, or dive at his knee, because now I'll get those, plus 15k.

And if you want to make the argument "ah, 15k ain't crap to those guys" you are wrong. Rich people who used to be poor still think poor, and they want that money. They may P!ss it away at a strip club later, but they want it.


Its not really an argument as a statement of fact. Bounty or no bounty, players do and alway will try to knock other players out of the game via injury. Nothing will change in this regard. You can't stop it or change it.

You folks act like this hasn't been going on for 50 years. Sanctioned by the team. Not sanctioned. There is no difference. Giving a cash incentive for doing it is just what Williams chose to do. He didn't have to because those guys would be trying to knock players out anyway. That's the inherent nature of NFL defensive football. Now, you can find this deplorable. But it doesn't make anyone guilty of anything. It won't make anyone guilty next year either.

I fundamentally find the bounty issue par for the course for NFL football by its very nature. Exacting a harsh punishment over it is driven by politics and ego. It has nothing to do with the reality of NFL football. The punishment is as comical as it is oxymoronic. I find Goodell to be utterly out of touch with the sport he presides over.

#95 Patriotsfatboy1

Patriotsfatboy1

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 29,791 posts

Posted 26 March 2012 - 04:27 PM

Its not really an argument as a statement of fact. Bounty or no bounty, players do and alway will try to knock other players out of the game via injury. Nothing will change in this regard. You can't stop it or change it.

You folks act like this hasn't been going on for 50 years. Sanctioned by the team. Not sanctioned. There is no difference. Giving a cash incentive for doing it is just what Williams chose to do. He didn't have to because those guys would be trying to knock players out anyway. That's the inherent nature of NFL defensive football. Now, you can find this deplorable. But it doesn't make anyone guilty of anything. It won't make anyone guilty next year either.

I fundamentally find the bounty issue par for the course for NFL football by its very nature. Exacting a harsh punishment over it is driven by politics and ego. It has nothing to do with the reality of NFL football. The punishment is as comical as it is oxymoronic. I find Goodell to be utterly out of touch with the sport he presides over.


What size is your tinfoil hat?
Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son.

#96 Kent

Kent

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 2,418 posts

Posted 26 March 2012 - 04:42 PM

What size is your tinfoil hat?


You're drawing conspiracy theorist from my comments? Wow.

#97 Patriotsfatboy1

Patriotsfatboy1

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 29,791 posts

Posted 26 March 2012 - 05:02 PM

You're drawing conspiracy theorist from my comments? Wow.


It was more that you were so vehemently professing your version of reality. Reminds me of those with tinfoil hats. :dunno:

Can we forget the violence aspect of this for a moment? I am not sure if you work, but if you were the big boss and your employees lied to you about leaving early or something minor. Then you called them on it with some evidence and they lied to you again, what would you do? Just let it slide. Nope, you would can them.

The Saints lied, they covered up, lied some more. They were not playing within the rules and got caught. Take your punishment.
Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son.

#98 nobody

nobody

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 19,483 posts

Posted 26 March 2012 - 09:28 PM

When did they start giving out 15k for injuries? I heard it was 1500 max.

#99 Kent

Kent

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 2,418 posts

Posted 26 March 2012 - 10:22 PM

It was more that you were so vehemently professing your version of reality. Reminds me of those with tinfoil hats. :dunno:

Can we forget the violence aspect of this for a moment? I am not sure if you work, but if you were the big boss and your employees lied to you about leaving early or something minor. Then you called them on it with some evidence and they lied to you again, what would you do? Just let it slide. Nope, you would can them.

The Saints lied, they covered up, lied some more. They were not playing within the rules and got caught. Take your punishment.


Its not my version of reality. It is reality. Defensive players on every team play to knock guys out of the game via injury. I'm sorry if its an ugly thing but its reality. You know it and I know it. Or do you think everyone in the NFL except for the Saints plays defense with honor and respect and good will towards men? That's a neat story but its not the reality.

Also, your boss and employee comparison doesn't work. Nobody for the Saints works for Roger Goodell. Goodell works for the NFL. He'll likely be fired by the NFL at the end of his contract or "resign". Goodell is more akin to a lawless police officer who's also judge, jury and executioner. Its hilarious people buy into his BS about league integrity.

As a Redskins fan, if Goodell was consistent, the Skins should be getting fines and loss of draft picks too. Why hasn't that happened? It should. Right? I know without a doubt the Skins had a bounty system too. Where are the Skins punishments? Williams admitted to it. Where are the Bills punishments? Oh, if you sting the commish's ego by lying, then you get the hammer. If not, you skate? Its a total joke. Who's going to tell this lawless clown the truth? He's built to be lied to because its the safest bet. He's not regultated. He makes up the punishments by whimsy. Its a scary proposition. So of course you lie.

Keep believing in this commissioner though. Its comical. You guys need to wake up.

#100 Vikings4ever

Vikings4ever

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 35,622 posts

Posted 26 March 2012 - 10:49 PM

Also, your boss and employee comparison doesn't work. Nobody for the Saints works for Roger Goodell. Goodell works for the NFL. He'll likely be fired by the NFL at the end of his contract or "resign".

Goodell's contract was reupped less than 3 months ago, and goes through 2018.
People are bastard coated bastards with bastard filling

#101 dnvrbronco

dnvrbronco

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 52 posts

Posted 26 March 2012 - 11:33 PM

I don't doubt other teams had a bounty system of their own. The difference with the Saints is that the NFL found out they possibly had a bounty program in 2009 and told the Saint's organization they were investigating it and even flew into New Orleans in 2010 to interview staff and players. Now knowing that they still put out bounties last year on Rodgers and Newton knowing full well they were obviously breaking the rules and the league was watching them. We all know defensive players go out and make big hits and sometimes the opposing player gets hurt in the process. I don't have a problem with injuries but when you deliberately go out of your way to do it that is just dirty play. I think the punishment fits arrogance of Payton and Loomis. They knew about it and did nothing for 3 years to stop it.

#102 Kent

Kent

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 2,418 posts

Posted 27 March 2012 - 08:12 AM

Goodell's contract was reupped less than 3 months ago, and goes through 2018.


I know. So the guy went nuts.

I presume he can still be fired and the NFL can eat the money they'd owe him.

#103 phillybear

phillybear

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 37,733 posts

Posted 28 March 2012 - 05:46 AM

Goodell's contract was reupped less than 3 months ago, and goes through 2018.


That is greatly depressing.

On the bright side, we can stream the far more entertaining Canadian Football League games.

phillybear is Geek of the Year 2006
phillybear is Geek of the Year 2008
phillybear is Geek of the Year 2009
phillybear is Geek of the Year 2011 (as Lackman)
phillybear is Geek of the Year 2012
phillybear is Geek of the Year 2013

phillybear is Geek of the Year 2014


#104 dfin13

dfin13

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 856 posts

Posted 28 March 2012 - 10:47 AM

Its not my version of reality. It is reality. Defensive players on every team play to knock guys out of the game via injury.

Some did, obviously. They don't anymore, at least not blatantly, or they face fines and/or suspensions. You had a couple of rebels for a while there, but Goddell tamed them by hitting their wallets. It's a new reality, and yet I still find NFL games just as incredibly entertaining as I did before Goddell showed up.

The new emphasis on player safety doesn't bother me at all. When Goddell is gone, that emphasis will still remain -- it'd be a PR nightmare for the NFL to decide to roll back measures taken to reduce injuries.

#105 TD Ryan2

TD Ryan2

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 17,749 posts

Posted 29 March 2012 - 08:55 AM

Defensive players on every team play to knock guys out of the game via injury.

Some did, obviously. They don't anymore,

ahhh... see, that's the conundrum.

They still do - they just can't talk about it - and they certainly can't have any team sanctioned pools for it.

This is Commish Goodell's challenge: he needs the hits/violence/etc to sell his game; it's CRITICAL for the game - but he has to pretend like they don't allow it or want it.

#106 Kent

Kent

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 2,418 posts

Posted 29 March 2012 - 09:39 AM

Some did, obviously. They don't anymore, at least not blatantly, or they face fines and/or suspensions. You had a couple of rebels for a while there, but Goddell tamed them by hitting their wallets. It's a new reality, and yet I still find NFL games just as incredibly entertaining as I did before Goddell showed up.

The new emphasis on player safety doesn't bother me at all. When Goddell is gone, that emphasis will still remain -- it'd be a PR nightmare for the NFL to decide to roll back measures taken to reduce injuries.


You still find the games entertaining because despite all the posturing by Goodell, NOTHING HAS CHANGED WITH REGARD TO PLAYERS TRYING TO INJURE OTHER PLAYERS. Its why the punishment is so absurdly over the top. It won't change anything fundamentally so there was no need for the severity. What happened was, Goodell took personal offense to being lied to. His ego got involved. So he went overboard. It wasn't business. It was personal. That's a bad commissioner. Plus, he speaks of competitive balance with cap maneuvers, but then whacks draft picks from the Saints and player suspensions the next minute. How are the Saints going to be competitive when they just got whacked for something every team in the NFL does by the very nature of the game. Its criminal.

The fact he even mentions being lied to is a joke. Who cares you were lied to Roger? He could've just said they broke a rule and the punishment followed. INstead we get him saying he was lied to over and over. As if that means something. As if that played a part and factored in. As if it means the punishment was worsened due to lying about it. Or worse, telling the truth means the punishment would be less??? There is no breakdown for punishments so you never know what you're going to get. What a mess. The message is, lie.

Who's going to tell this clown the truth? Its almost as if this clown thinks everyone he talks to isn't lying to him. What world is he living in. The system and his power is set up to be lied to about everything and anything because he's totally unregulated. That's a scary guy to be forthcoming and honest with.

#107 TD Ryan2

TD Ryan2

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 17,749 posts

Posted 29 March 2012 - 09:58 AM

You still find the games entertaining because despite all the posturing by Goodell, NOTHING HAS CHANGED WITH REGARD TO PLAYERS TRYING TO INJURE OTHER PLAYERS. Its why the punishment is so absurdly over the top. It won't change anything fundamentally so there was no need for the severity. What happened was, Goodell took personal offense to being lied to. His ego got involved. So he went overboard. It wasn't business. It was personal. That's a bad commissioner. Plus, he speaks of competitive balance with cap maneuvers, but then whacks draft picks from the Saints and player suspensions the next minute. How are the Saints going to be competitive when they just got whacked for something every team in the NFL does by the very nature of the game. Its criminal.

The fact he even mentions being lied to is a joke. Who cares you were lied to Roger? He could've just said they broke a rule and the punishment followed. INstead we get him saying he was lied to over and over. As if that means something. As if that played a part and factored in. As if it means the punishment was worsened due to lying about it. Or worse, telling the truth means the punishment would be less??? There is no breakdown for punishments so you never know what you're going to get. What a mess. The message is, lie.

Who's going to tell this clown the truth? Its almost as if this clown thinks everyone he talks to isn't lying to him. What world is he living in. The system and his power is set up to be lied to about everything and anything because he's totally unregulated. That's a scary guy to be forthcoming and honest with.

the ego and lying with Goodell is a common theme with his big punishments.
It's a huge factor in how he handled NE's Spygate
It's a huge factor in how he handled NO's Bountygate
It's a huge factor in how he handled DAL/WAS's Capgate

a guy on local sports radio made the observation that Goodell has to be a pretty big asswhole to make Dan Snyder and Jerry Jones sympathetic figures, Roger's asswhole quotient must be WAY up there!

#108 dfin13

dfin13

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 856 posts

Posted 29 March 2012 - 07:28 PM

You still find the games entertaining because despite all the posturing by Goodell, NOTHING HAS CHANGED WITH REGARD TO PLAYERS TRYING TO INJURE OTHER PLAYERS.

I was thinking more in terms of guys like James Harrison. The line was that without the kill-shots, the game would suffer, and the blame would fall on Goddell, and I don't think the game has suffered.

#109 worm

worm

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 1,041 posts

Posted 05 April 2012 - 09:59 AM

Source: Gregg Williams instructed Saints during speech to injure Niners offensive players

The night before Gregg Williams’ final game as the New Orleans Saints’ defensive coordinator, the since-suspended coach gave a fiery speech to the team’s defensive players during which he made specific references to inflicting physical punishment upon several San Francisco 49ers in a postseason game the next day.

In the speech at the team’s hotel near the San Francisco Airport, Williams – according to documentary filmmaker Sean Pamphilon – at one point made a hand signal suggesting he would personally pay for a ferocious shot on 49ers quarterback Alex Smith.

Williams also referenced the prospect of his players inflicting a severe knee injury upon San Francisco wideout Michael Crabtree and exhorted them to “put a lick on” backup receiver Kyle Williams in an effort to “find out” if he was still suffering from the effects of a late-December concussion.


Link to the audio.

Man, I'm glad the 49ers won that game.
"I don't think you can trust a guy who likes to dance."
-Brian Billick

#110 shovelheadt

shovelheadt

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 24,008 posts

Posted 05 April 2012 - 10:41 AM

Source: Gregg Williams instructed Saints during speech to injure Niners offensive players



Link to the audio.

Man, I'm glad the 49ers won that game.


Just read this. I wanna see how many people still try to defend this turd now. I'm almost leaning towards the punishments not being severe enough.
JUNGLE FEVER BABY

#111 Truck Jackson

Truck Jackson

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 143 posts

Posted 05 April 2012 - 11:05 AM

Just read this. I wanna see how many people still try to defend this turd now. I'm almost leaning towards the punishments not being severe enough.


I don't see how this should change anyones take on matter. Did you think he kindly asked his defense to go out there and hurt other players? You thought maybe he said politely and softspoken "Now, please try to put a good hurtin on Mr. Gore today, and if you do take him out I've got some candies for you."

#112 shovelheadt

shovelheadt

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 24,008 posts

Posted 05 April 2012 - 11:20 AM

I don't see how this should change anyones take on matter. Did you think he kindly asked his defense to go out there and hurt other players? You thought maybe he said politely and softspoken "Now, please try to put a good hurtin on Mr. Gore today, and if you do take him out I've got some candies for you."


C'mon man. There have been multiple comments coming to the defense of this bounty process. Most have been along the lines of 'it's just rhetoric' or 'the bark is worse than the bite, we would never go out there to purposely injure anyone'. I'm pretty sure this audio puts to rest any doubt that there were direct instructions to target specific players and specific body parts.
JUNGLE FEVER BABY

#113 Truck Jackson

Truck Jackson

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 143 posts

Posted 05 April 2012 - 06:02 PM

C'mon man. There have been multiple comments coming to the defense of this bounty process. Most have been along the lines of 'it's just rhetoric' or 'the bark is worse than the bite, we would never go out there to purposely injure anyone'. I'm pretty sure this audio puts to rest any doubt that there were direct instructions to target specific players and specific body parts.


Offensive plays are frequently called towards cb's or lb's that have injured ankles/knees lately to test them. You think that this type of thing wasn't going to happen with a defense that has already said paid bounties for injuries, there is no surprise in this audio, just the same bs that everyones been talking about for months now.

#114 Patriotsfatboy1

Patriotsfatboy1

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 29,791 posts

Posted 05 April 2012 - 06:18 PM

Offensive plays are frequently called towards cb's or lb's that have injured ankles/knees lately to test them. You think that this type of thing wasn't going to happen with a defense that has already said paid bounties for injuries, there is no surprise in this audio, just the same bs that everyones been talking about for months now.

Really? Let's see what other players say about it. This was way over the line of physical football. This tape shows that this was not some isolated situation or where someone might misinterpret Williams' statements.
Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son.

#115 Matt Mueller

Matt Mueller

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 6,397 posts

Posted 05 April 2012 - 06:43 PM

This audio definitely changed my opinion of the situation.

There's a difference between, let's hit em hard and try to knock them out of the game and hey team let's go take out this guys acl.

I'm even ok with them 'going after' Rodgers with the concussion, b/c imo, that's just good football. You test guys's weakness. Have a receiver with bum rib? Hit him hard but don't intentionally try and end someone's career.

I think Williams time in the NFL is over.

#116 Reality

Reality

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 4,917 posts

Posted 05 April 2012 - 07:16 PM

From a 9'ers fan, meh. The Saints are being made an example. I don't think any team would want their supposedly private meetings aired to the public. Some of this was over the top but, punishing one team this harshly for something that has been going on for decades is pretty weak. Most people would be shocked with the things that are said in locker rooms.

Stones, throwing, glass houses.. You know, that whole bit.

#117 Patriotsfatboy1

Patriotsfatboy1

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 29,791 posts

Posted 05 April 2012 - 07:31 PM

From a 9'ers fan, meh. The Saints are being made an example. I don't think any team would want their supposedly private meetings aired to the public. Some of this was over the top but, punishing one team this harshly for something that has been going on for decades is pretty weak. Most people would be shocked with the things that are said in locker rooms.

Stones, throwing, glass houses.. You know, that whole bit.

Have you been in NFL locker rooms on game day? Let's see what other players think.
Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son.

#118 Truck Jackson

Truck Jackson

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 143 posts

Posted 05 April 2012 - 07:51 PM

Have you been in NFL locker rooms on game day? Let's see what other players think.


Are you trying to bump your post count by replying to everything with "Let's see what other players think"? They knew there was a bounty program in place before these tapes. They knew they were paying people to knock other guys out of games, what do you think the guy running the bounty program was saying? Would you be surprised if you heard tapes of me saying the Patriots suck, when I'm telling you right now, that the Patriots suck. Let's see what the players think about that.

#119 Pecos Rattlers

Pecos Rattlers

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 252 posts

Posted 05 April 2012 - 10:58 PM

The audio is definitely over the top, but so is the game. We're talking about 300+ lb men crashing into each other constantly.

Should players be paid specifically to try and hurt others? No, I have to agree with the league's position there. But the spin job that the league and numerous writers have tried to put on it: "It's reprehensible! It's the most horrific thing to happen in the game! It must never happen again!" ... that's completely ludicrous. This is a violent game ... they want to try and put this nice & clean wrapper on and pretend football isn't violent & dangerous. "Honest, no one is trying to hurt anyone or intimidate anyone! It's all just fun and games and candy!"

The worst thing is, they don't even believe the position they are taking. They just want the veneer of safety and concern to help with their current lawsuits against injured/concussed players and help with their image. It's all about the money to Mr. Goodell and (most) of the owners. The Saints (I'm not a fan, besides Brees) are taking the fall for the league's bottom line, that's all.

12 team 2 QB auction redraft full PPR
qb: RYAN, ROMO, glennon
rb: CHARLES, ELLINGTON, R JENNINGS, mcfadden, r rice

wr: GARCON, K WRIGHT, m jones, ginn, crabtree, d davis
te: J. THOMAS, t wright
k: HARTLEY
def: PANTHERS


#120 Matt Mueller

Matt Mueller

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 6,397 posts

Posted 06 April 2012 - 12:09 AM

The audio is definitely over the top, but so is the game. We're talking about 300+ lb men crashing into each other constantly.

Should players be paid specifically to try and hurt others? No, I have to agree with the league's position there. But the spin job that the league and numerous writers have tried to put on it: "It's reprehensible! It's the most horrific thing to happen in the game! It must never happen again!" ... that's completely ludicrous. This is a violent game ... they want to try and put this nice & clean wrapper on and pretend football isn't violent & dangerous. "Honest, no one is trying to hurt anyone or intimidate anyone! It's all just fun and games and candy!"

The worst thing is, they don't even believe the position they are taking. They just want the veneer of safety and concern to help with their current lawsuits against injured/concussed players and help with their image. It's all about the money to Mr. Goodell and (most) of the owners. The Saints (I'm not a fan, besides Brees) are taking the fall for the league's bottom line, that's all.


I agree with this.

I think Williams getting the boot is deserved but the Saints are being made a scape goat here.


Really a shame to see it happen to one of the league's best stories.