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Self Defense Killing in Florida...Geeks got an opinion?


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#1401 IGotWorms

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 02:09 PM

Sure. So that's a yes. Ok, I'll remember that. How hard was it to find that AP link btw?


At first I did an exact quote search to see where RP got his story from. That did not lead to an AP story but rather this "Newser" story and a bunch of bullsh!t blogs linking to said story. Then I did a news search along the lines of "NBC employee fired" and voila, there it was.

So to answer your question: really not that hard once I took the right approach. Is it your position that nobody should ever provide links to a news story if the story can easily be found in a Google search?

#1402 Strike

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 02:13 PM

So to answer your question: really not that hard once I took the right approach. Is it your position that nobody should ever provide links to a news story if the story can easily be found in a Google search?


No. As I indicated previously, both RP and myself usually do so obviously we both feel it's an appropriate thing to do. However, on the rare occasion when someone who usually provides a link doesn't and it's easy enough to find, I'm willing to get off my ass and go find it like I did with this story. And I can understand why, after the fact, he chose not to post it. I probably wouldn't have either if I were in his position.
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#1403 Recliner Pilot

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 02:32 PM

No. As I indicated previously, both RP and myself usually do so obviously we both feel it's an appropriate thing to do. However, on the rare occasion when someone who usually provides a link doesn't and it's easy enough to find, I'm willing to get off my ass and go find it like I did with this story. And I can understand why, after the fact, he chose not to post it. I probably wouldn't have either if I were in his position.

I actually got linked to the tvnewser site from another site. Never been there before, but I just scanned it and I don't see where it leans left or right. Seems to just report on happening on the tv news channels, local news, etc.....

I didn't "choose not to post it", just an oversight. And if I fail to do so and someone asks for a link I normally do so, but Worms is just a lefty hack who questions every link/story posted. He's also a lazy, whiny fukk.

Also, I don't believe he is an attorney either. Not that I think you have to be smart to be one, but his posts are too dumb for him to have a degree from some community college, so I'm guessing he watches a bunch of Law and Order re-runs and lives vicariously thru them.

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#1404 DAVID RUFFIN

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 01:03 PM

I actually got linked to the tvnewser site from another site. Never been there before, but I just scanned it and I don't see where it leans left or right. Seems to just report on happening on the tv news channels, local news, etc.....

I didn't "choose not to post it", just an oversight. And if I fail to do so and someone asks for a link I normally do so, but Worms is just a lefty hack who questions every link/story posted. He's also a lazy, whiny fukk.

Also, I don't believe he is an attorney either. Not that I think you have to be smart to be one, but his posts are too dumb for him to have a degree from some community college, so I'm guessing he watches a bunch of Law and Order re-runs and lives vicariously thru them.



Tell us again what you do for a living. I'm guessing security guard or school bus driver. :lol:
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#1405 IGotWorms

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 01:16 PM

Also, I don't believe he is an attorney either. Not that I think you have to be smart to be one, but his posts are too dumb for him to have a degree from some community college, so I'm guessing he watches a bunch of Law and Order re-runs and lives vicariously thru them.


And your record of always being wrong continues. Congrats. :thumbsup:

#1406 Recliner Pilot

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 03:36 PM

And your record of always being wrong continues. Congrats. :thumbsup:

Whatever you say, Corky Bravo. :thumbsup:


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#1407 kutulu

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 07:23 PM

Sanford, Florida -- On the day George Zimmerman was formally arraigned on a second degree murder charge in the shooting death of Trayvon Martin, his attorney filed motions waiving the neighborhood watch captain's right to a speedy trial and one seeking more time to prepare for a trial.

Neither Zimmerman nor his attorney Mark O'Mara appeared in court Tuesday for the arraignment. Several weeks ago, Zimmerman entered a written plea of no contest.

Zimmerman remains free on a $150,000 bond and a pretrial hearing has been scheduled for August 8.


~wtsp.com

#1408 kutulu

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 11:41 AM

Prosecutors released a summary of evidence Tuesday in the case against neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman, who is accused of second-degree murder in the death of Trayvon Martin.

The eight-page document released to the public contains a list of possible witnesses and law enforcement reports that could be used in the prosecution's case against Zimmerman.

But it doesn't include details from those statements or reports, and contains no new revelations about the case, which sparked nationwide protests and reflection on race relations and gun laws in the United States.

The document is part of the routine exchange of information between prosecutors and defense attorneys that occurs before trials.

Defense attorney Mark O'Mara said Monday on the website set up to release information from Zimmerman's side that his office had received "67 compact discs and numerous hardcopy documents" from prosecutors, including many of the records and statements mentioned in the summary.

George Zimmerman leaves jail "Please remember and understand that it is inappropriate for us to comment on particular pieces of evidence," O'Mara said in the website statement.

Zimmerman, 28, is accused of killing Martin on February 26 as the African-American teenager walked back to the Sanford, Florida, house where he was staying, after visiting a convenience store. Prosecutors have said Zimmerman, who is a white Hispanic, killed Martin unjustly after profiling him.

Zimmerman, who acknowledges shooting Martin but claims self-defense, has entered a not guilty plea in the case, which has not yet been scheduled for trial.

The document lists 50 possible law enforcement witnesses, including 28 officers from the 140-member Sanford Police Department. It also lists 28 civilian witnesses, including Martin's brother, mother and father, two of Zimmerman's friends -- Joe Oliver and Frank Taffe -- and his father, Robert Zimmerman.

Prosecutors did not give names for 22 other potential civilian witnesses.

Attorneys have previously expressed concern about publicly identifying some witnesses who may fear retribution for their roles in the case, which has inflamed passions among supporters of both Martin and Zimmerman.

At least one of the witness interviews was conducted by Martin family attorney Benjamin Crump, according to the document.

Evidence taken from Zimmerman after the shooting, including his weapon, bullets, clothes, a DNA sample, medical records and his cell phone data were also included in the disclosure to defense attorneys, according to the document.

The document indicates that police technicians in biological and DNA evidence, trace evidence, gunshot residue, fingerprints and firearms may testify, along with two FBI agents, as well as two audio technicians who analyzed emergency calls made during the confrontation between Zimmerman and Martin in an effort to determine who was heard screaming in the background.

Experts Tom Owen and Edward Primeau concluded that the screams did not come from Zimmerman, who told police that Martin rushed him after they exchanged words, knocked him to the ground and repeatedly hit his head against the concrete sidewalk.

Martin, who lived in Miami, died after a chance encounter with Zimmerman in the gated community where he was staying with his father during a suspension from school.

Zimmerman called police to report a suspicious person walking on the streets of the neighborhood, which had been struck by several burglaries in recent months.

Prosecutors say he disregarded a dispatcher's advice not to follow the person, who turned out to be Martin, and shot him after a confrontation minutes later.

While Zimmerman supporters have characterized him as a well-meaning neighborhood watch volunteer who was only trying to protect his community, Martin's family and supporters have said he unfairly profiled Martin as a troublemaker just because he was an African-American teenager walking down the street wearing a hoodie.

Sanford police initially declined to arrest Zimmerman, saying there was no evidence to contradict Zimmerman's claim of self-defense under Florida's "stand your ground" law, which allows people to use deadly force anywhere they feel a reasonable threat of serious injury or death.

After weeks of protests demanding Zimmerman's arrest, a special prosecutor appointed by Florida Gov. Rick Scott filed the second-degree murder charge against Zimmerman. He was arrested April 11 and briefly jailed. He has returned to hiding after his release on $150,000 bond.


~cnn.com

#1409 Recliner Pilot

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 07:03 AM

ABC News Exclusive: Zimmerman Medical Report Shows Broken Nose, Lacerations After Trayvon Martin Shooting

A medical report compiled by the family physician of accused Trayvon Martin murderer George Zimmerman and obtained exclusively by ABC News found that Zimmerman was diagnosed with a "closed fracture" of his nose, a pair of black eyes, two lacerations to the back of his head and a minor back injury the day after he fatally shot Martin during an alleged altercation.

The record shows that Zimmerman also suffered bruising in the upper lip and cheek and lower back pain. The two lacerations on the back of his head, one of them nearly an inch long, the other about a quarter-inch long, were first revealed in photos obtained exclusively by ABC News last month.



http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-medical-report-sheds-light-injuries-trayvon/story?id=16353532

Obama really inherited a mess for his second term. 


#1410 Recliner Pilot

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 07:06 AM

Autopsy results show Trayvon Martin had injuries to his knuckles

SANFORD, Fla. —


WFTV has confirmed that autopsy results show 17-year-old Trayvon Martin had injuries to his knuckles when he died.

The information could support George Zimmerman's claim that Martin beat him up before Zimmerman shot and killed him.

The autopsy results come as Zimmerman's attorney, Mark O’Mara continues to go over other evidence in the case.

O’Mara wouldn't comment on the autopsy evidence, but WFTV legal analyst Bill Sheaffer said it's better for the defense than it is for the prosecution.

WFTV has learned that the medical examiner found two injuries on Martin’s body: The fatal gunshot wound and broken skin on his knuckles.

When you compare Trayvon’s non-fatal injury with Zimmerman's bloody head wounds, the autopsy evidence is better for the defense, Sheaffer said.

“It goes along with Zimmerman's story that he acted in self-defense, because he was getting beaten up by Trayvon Martin,” Sheaffer said.

The injury to Martin’s knuckle also fits with Zimmerman's story that before he shot and killed Martin, Martin had broken his nose and knocked him to the ground, slamming his head on the sidewalk.




http://www.wftv.com/...juries-h/nN6gs/

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#1411 kutulu

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 07:09 AM

Yeah, meant to post that last night...sounds like Zimmerman was getting his ass kicked.

#1412 Phurfur

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 07:13 AM

Never Mind
- Emily Litella

#1413 kutulu

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 07:20 AM

Never Mind
- Emily Litella


I wouldn't jump there quite yet. I'm sure there will be plenty of twists as this story gets played out.

This is an entirely different case, interesting, nonetheless...


(CBS) - Last Friday, Jacksonville mother Marissa Alexander was sentenced by a Florida judge to 20 years in prison for firing what she says was a "warning shot" into the wall after a physical altercation with her husband, Rico Gray.

The case has set off yet another controversy involving the state's "stand your ground" law, which is under intense scrutiny after the shooting death of Trayvon Martin in February. Critics, including Congresswoman Corrine Brown (D-Fla.), are crying foul.

How, they ask, could a 31-year-old woman in a relationship with a man who had a history of domestic violence, and whose actions did not result in any physical injury, be sentenced to two decades in prison while George Zimmerman, the man who shot and killed Martin, is out on bail?

"The Florida criminal justice system has sent two clear messages today," Rep. Brown said in a statement on May 11. "One is that if women who are victims of domestic violence try to protect themselves, the "Stand Your Ground Law" will not apply to them...The second message is that if you are black, the system will treat you differently."

According to a sworn deposition taken in November 2010, Gray, 36, said that on August 1, 2010, he and Alexander began fighting after he found text messages to Alexander's first husband on her phone. The two were already estranged - according to her father, Alexander had been living at her mother's since the birth of the couple's daughter nine days earlier, and Gray, a long-haul trucker, said he spent the night before in his tractor-trailer. Gray began calling her names, saying "If I can't have you, nobody going to have you," and blocking her from exiting the bathroom.

Alexander pushed past Gray and went into the garage where she got her gun from her car's glove compartment.

Gray told prosecutors in the deposition that Alexander came back into the house holding the weapon and told him to leave. He refused, and what happened next is somewhat unclear. In his deposition, Gray said "she shot in the air one time," prompting him and the children to run out the front door. But when Gray called 911 the day of the incident, he said "she aimed the gun at us and she shot."


In August 2011, a judge rejected a motion by Alexander's attorney to grant her immunity under the "stand your ground" law. According to the judge's order, "there is insufficient evidence that the Defendant reasonably believed deadly force was needed to prevent death or great bodily harm to herself," and that the fact that she came back into the home, instead of leaving out the front or back door "is inconsistent with a person who is in genuine fear for her life."

Alexander's case was prosecuted by Angela Corey, the Florida State's Attorney who is also prosecuting George Zimmerman. Alexander was charged with aggravated assault with a deadly weapon, and because she discharged a firearm during the incident, the case fell under Florida's "10-20-life" law, enacted in 1999, which mandates a 20-year sentence for use of a gun during the commission of certain crimes.

Corey initially offered Alexander a three year deal if she pleaded guilty to aggravated assault, but according to CBS affiliate WTEV, Alexander did not believe she had done anything wrong, and rejected the plea. Her bet did not pay off: the jury in the case returned a guilty verdict in less than 15 minutes.

Now, Alexander's family is looking for a new attorney to take the case on appeal and plans to ask the governor for clemency.

"I know that she truly tried to defend herself," says Lincoln Alexander, Alexander's first husband.

Rep. Brown is helping. The Congresswoman told Crimesider she has contacted several attorneys about taking the case and is helping the NAACP plan a May 29 march in support of Alexander.

According to Mitchell Stone, a Jacksonville defense attorney who has tried numerous stand your ground and domestic violence cases, there were several problems with Alexander's case. First, according to court documents, Alexander violated her bail by returning to the home where the shooting incident took place several months later.

"A lot of people would say, if she's so afraid of him, what's she doing going back there?" says Stone.

Second, as the judge pointed out in the ruling that denied stand your ground immunity, presumably Alexander could have fled the home through the back door instead of returning to the house and confronting Gray.

"Obviously, the jury believed the state's position, that she went into garage to get the gun and make a stand, and that's not going to be tolerated," Stone says.

Stone says the case is "not perfect from a defense perspective," but believes Alexander may have grounds for an appeal based on the judge refusing to admit testimony from witnesses who could tell the jury about Gray's history of violence against women. And there are disputes about significant facts in the case, including whether Alexander could have escaped out the garage instead of getting her gun and returning to the house; Gray said he "knew she couldn't leave out the garage door because the garage door was locked" in his November 2010 deposition, but in her ruling against allowing Alexander "stand your ground" immunity, Judge Elizabeth Senterfitt wrote that "there was no evidence presented to support her claim."

"You can't shoot a gun at people," says Corey. "It ricocheted from the wall to the ceiling, but what if it had hit someone?"


Alexander's case is bringing scrutiny to mandatory minimum sentences, which Stone says "take discretion out of judges' hands" and essentially hand that power to prosecutors, who already decide which charges to bring. Corey, for example, could have charged Alexander with straight aggravated assault, instead of adding the gun charge, but she told Crimesider that once Alexander rejected the plea deal, she felt it was her duty to charge according to the law.


As Corey put it, "She discharged a gun to kill them, and she has to answer for that."

Her decision didn't surprise Stone: "When Corey took office in 2008, part of her platform was getting tough on gun crime."

While Florida's Gov. Rick Scott has convened a task force to look at the state's "stand your ground" law in the wake of the Trayvon Martin case, Stone says that people lobbying to repeal mandatory minimums are in the "extreme minority."

So, while Alexander waits in prison, her family and supporters insist her conviction and long sentence are a grave miscarriage of justice. They've created a website to spread the word about Alexander's case and raise money for an appeal.


Alexander's father, Raoul Jenkins, told Crimesider that his daughter had had a licensed gun for years and the two had been to the shooting range together.

"If Marissa wanted to shoot anybody she could," Jenkins says. "But that was not her intent. Her intent was to diffuse the situation without anyone getting hurt or killed."


linky

#1414 Phurfur

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 07:25 AM

I wouldn't jump there quite yet. I'm sure there will be plenty of twists as this story gets played out.


:overhead: Yup, I am the one jumping to conclusions. :overhead:

#1415 BLS

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 07:26 AM

Yeah, meant to post that last night...sounds like Zimmerman was getting his ass kicked.



Where's the bored libs now?

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#1416 kutulu

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 07:31 AM

:overhead: Yup, I am the one jumping to conclusions. :overhead:


I didn't mean to imlpy you were jumping to conclusions...poor choice of word. That bit of news certainly sounds good for Zimmerman's contention. I just mean there is quite a ways to go. I doubt Zimmerman is feeling like we are at the "nevermind" stage.

#1417 kutulu

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 07:33 AM

Where's the bored libs now?


Their mom's basement, I would assume.


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#1418 Recliner Pilot

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 07:34 AM

Where's the bored libs now?

Looks like Worm's conviction is in danger of being overturned.

Obama really inherited a mess for his second term. 


#1419 The Next Generation

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 07:43 AM

Seems pretty likely that 2nd degree murder is out (wasn't very likely in the first place) but involuntary manslaughter is still viable. Just because there is evidence of a fight, doesn't mean that Zimmerman is innocent. To me, the thing that will likely lead to the IM verdict would be that Zimmerman disregarded the police dispatcher and continued to follow Martin. I believe that was the impetus to everything that followed and can be reasonably argued and proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

Here is an excerpt from a definition on involuntary manslaughter: "Other jurisdictions apply more subjective tests, such as "reckless" or "wanton," to describe the amount of negligence needed to constitute involuntary manslaughter. In this approach the defendant must have personally appreciated a risk and then chosen to take it anyway."

No idea what the definition is in this jurisdiction, but seems reasonable to me that Zimmerman appreciated the risk and chose to take it anyway, leading to the death of Martin.
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#1420 phillybear

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 08:05 AM

I'm starting to think Martin straight up mugged Zimmerman for his wallet and possessions. Not out of some fake outrage at being observed doing suspicious behavior. Let's not forget the backpack of stolen jewelry Martin had in school in one of the few days he wasn't suspended for committing other crimes.

Martin should be put on trial.

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#1421 Patriotsfatboy1

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 08:07 AM

I'm starting to think Martin straight up mugged Zimmerman for his wallet and possessions. Not out of some fake outrage at being observed doing suspicious behavior. Let's not forget the backpack of stolen jewelry Martin had in school in one of the few days he wasn't suspended for committing other crimes.

Martin should be put on trial.

Give him the death penalty! :unsure:
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#1422 Herbivore

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 08:34 AM

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/autopsy-results-show-trayvon-martin-had-injuries-h/nN6gs/


This and the angle of the gun shot have been the things I have been waiting to hear. Seems to help Zim.

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#1423 Phurfur

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 08:50 AM

I didn't mean to imlpy you were jumping to conclusions...poor choice of word. That bit of news certainly sounds good for Zimmerman's contention. I just mean there is quite a ways to go. I doubt Zimmerman is feeling like we are at the "nevermind" stage.

Well the Black Leadership said this was and execution of a black child by a white male and it was racially motivated. They said Martin did nothing wrong. Did you forget this? I think I am much closer to the truth.

#1424 kutulu

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 08:55 AM

Well the Black Leadership said this was and execution of a black child by a white male and it was racially motivated. They said Martin did nothing wrong. Did you forget this? I think I am much closer to the truth.


What you think and what they think doesn't matter.

#1425 Vikings4ever

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 09:07 AM

I wouldn't jump there quite yet. I'm sure there will be plenty of twists as this story gets played out.

This is an entirely different case, interesting, nonetheless...




linky

Alexander pushed past Gray and went into the garage where she got her gun from her car's glove compartment.

Gray told prosecutors in the deposition that Alexander came back into the house holding the weapon and told him to leave. He refused, and what happened next is somewhat unclear. In his deposition, Gray said "she shot in the air one time," prompting him and the children to run out the front door. But when Gray called 911 the day of the incident, he said "she aimed the gun at us and she shot."


And that's the key. She left, got the gun, and came back, creating a new incident.

I've also heard (but can't find a link to support it, so it may be false) that she had a prior criminal, and wasn't supposed to have possession of a firearm.
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#1426 kutulu

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 09:11 AM

And that's the key. She left, got the gun, and came back, creating a new incident.

I've also heard (but can't find a link to support it, so it may be false) that she had a prior criminal, and wasn't supposed to have possession of a firearm.


Not sure about that...at the end of the article I linked it states "Alexander's father, Raoul Jenkins, told Crimesider that his daughter had had a licensed gun for years and the two had been to the shooting range together." That would make me think she could have one, but I don't really know much about this case or anything else for that matter. :banana:

#1427 BLS

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 11:45 AM

Seems pretty likely that 2nd degree murder is out (wasn't very likely in the first place) but involuntary manslaughter is still viable. Just because there is evidence of a fight, doesn't mean that Zimmerman is innocent. To me, the thing that will likely lead to the IM verdict would be that Zimmerman disregarded the police dispatcher and continued to follow Martin. I believe that was the impetus to everything that followed and can be reasonably argued and proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

Here is an excerpt from a definition on involuntary manslaughter: "Other jurisdictions apply more subjective tests, such as "reckless" or "wanton," to describe the amount of negligence needed to constitute involuntary manslaughter. In this approach the defendant must have personally appreciated a risk and then chosen to take it anyway."

No idea what the definition is in this jurisdiction, but seems reasonable to me that Zimmerman appreciated the risk and chose to take it anyway, leading to the death of Martin.


What risk was that?

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#1428 Phurfur

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 12:04 PM

What you think and what they think doesn't matter.


I think you are innocent until proven guilty and that does matter. HTH

#1429 kutulu

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 12:17 PM

I think you are innocent until proven guilty and that does matter. HTH


Yes and no. And no.

#1430 jerryskids

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 12:24 PM

I've lost interest in this case. It needs a hot chick defendant who goes clubbing. :thumbsup:
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#1431 GobbleDog

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 12:39 PM

I've lost interest in this case. It needs a hot chick defendant who goes clubbing. :thumbsup:

It'll pick up steam after he's acquitted and the riots break out in Sanford.

#1432 jerryskids

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 12:41 PM

It'll pick up steam after he's acquitted and the riots break out in Sanford.


Awesome! :banana:
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#1433 Mookz

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 12:50 PM

I've lost interest in this case. It needs a hot chick defendant who goes clubbing. :thumbsup:

Ah, yes...America's sweetheart. :wub:

#1434 kutulu

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 01:08 PM

So the prosecution has this information regarding the injuries to both people and still went ahead and charged the one still living. Seems like they must have something else pretty damming or they just cracked to the overwhelming public pressure to get this out of the court of public opinion and into the actual justice system. :unsure:

#1435 JTB

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 01:25 PM

So the prosecution has this information regarding the injuries to both people and still went ahead and charged the one still living. Seems like they must have something else pretty damming or they just cracked to the overwhelming public pressure to get this out of the court of public opinion and into the actual justice system. :unsure:



Wow - Way to step out on a limb there. :rolleyes:

#1436 kutulu

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 01:26 PM

Wow - Way to step out on a limb there. :rolleyes:


They're on to me. :banana:

#1437 JTB

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 01:27 PM

They're on to me. :banana:


You are Mr. Obvious aren't you. :banana:

#1438 kutulu

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 01:29 PM

You are Mr. Obvious aren't you. :banana:

Well, duh! Way to step out on a limb there. :rolleyes:






















:banana:

#1439 Voltaire

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 05:23 PM

The cuts to the back of Zimmerman's head and bruises to Martin's knuckles would corroborate Zimmerman's story about self defense. We'll see how it's all presented.

“The problem is that you Americans think every problem has a solution.”- former German chancellor Helmut Schmidt

 

The amount of time you clowns will spend, and brain cells you will exhaust trying to come to a conclusion other than the one I just proposed simply proves in my working brain what focking morons you all are. ~ Mahan Day

 


#1440 IGotWorms

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 10:55 PM

The whole thing lasted seven minutes, from when Zimmerman called 911 to when Martin ended up dead. Seems like a short time frame for Martin to walk away, then supposedly hide while Zimmerman got out of his car, then supposedly sneak up on Zimmerman and beat him to the point where deadly force was necessary.