51 replies to this topic

[Recliner Pilot]

Better keep up with the maintenance if you want this fireball on wheels to last that long.

Keep in mind, these figures take into account the massive Govt subsidies to get this turd in the first place.

Savings come slowly for hybrid, electric car owners

Buyers of hybrid or electric-vehicles, such as Nissan's Leaf, hoping to save money have to wait years —or even decades in some cases— for the payoff.


If you're thinking about buying a fuel-efficient hybrid, electric or otherwise eco-friendly vehicle as a way to save money over time, do your homework — or be prepared to wait.

Buyers who choose Nissan's all-electric Leaf ($28,421) over its approximate gas-powered equivalent, Nissan's Versa ($18,640), will likely wait nearly 9 years until they break even, according to a new report by The New York Times that examines the cost of fuel efficiency.

For drivers of the Chevrolet Volt ($31,767), the wait is even longer— 26.6 years.

http://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/blog/2012/04/savings-come-slowly-for-hybrid.html

[DankNuggs]

About the same time it takes for it to merge on a highway on-ramp

[Mike Honcho]

The Volt, which cost nearly $40,000 before a $7,500 federal tax credit, could take up to 27 years to pay off versus a Chevrolet Cruze, assuming it was regularly driven farther than its battery-only range allows. The payback time could drop to about eight years if gas cost $5 a gallon and the driver remained exclusively on battery power.
The Lundberg Survey, which tracks fuel prices, said in March that gas prices would need to reach $12.50 a gallon for the Volt to make sense purely on financial terms. It said the Leaf would be competitive with gas at $8.53 a gallon.


Still, in a recent survey by Consumer Reports, the most satisfied drivers owned Volts. The survey said 93 percent of Volt owners would definitely buy the car again — though there are only 12,000 of the cars on the road.

“There’s probably a percentage that is aware of the cost and benefit,” Mr. Schuh said. “It’s about helping the environment and it’s a good feeling to do it.”

From the original article

[NewbieJr]

Why do you hate earth?

[kutulu]

What's the payback time on other types of cars?

[JTB]

“It’s about helping the environment and it’s a good feeling to do it.”



From the original article

Although I think the idea behind the Volt is horseshit, only Mr. Pilot would be so blinded that he doesn't realize the "real" purpose behind the vehicle.

[shovelheadt]

Although I think the idea behind the Volt is horseshit, only Mr. Pilot would be so blinded that he doesn't realize the "real" purpose behind the vehicle.

To his credit, payback matters more on a McDonalds salary.

[Bert]

Although I think the idea behind the Volt is horseshit, only Mr. Pilot would be so blinded that he doesn't realize the "real" purpose behind the vehicle.

What is the "real" purpose? If it is helping the enviroment they could do more for the enviroment by planting 100 trees.

[shovelheadt]

What is the "real" purpose? If it is helping the enviroment they could do more for the enviroment by planting 100 trees.

That's only a valid argument if you completely eliminate the need for cars.

[JTB]

What is the "real" purpose? If it is helping the enviroment they could do more for the enviroment by planting 100 trees.

“It’s about helping the environment and it’s a good feeling to do it.”


As stated, I disagree with the whole notion, but the red is what it's about. I know it's being billed as saving the earth and whatnot, but to the "I feel like I'm helping the environement" people, it feels good to own a Volt.

[Bert]

That's only a valid argument if you completely eliminate the need for cars.

These "environmentally" friendly cars are not significantly better than most cars of similar size.

[Bert]

“It’s about helping the environment and it’s a good feeling to do it.”


As stated, I disagree with the whole notion, but the red is what it's about. I know it's being billed as saving the earth and whatnot, but to the "I feel like I'm helping the environement" people, it feels good to own a Volt.

Fair point. I guess I personally find the notion of thinking you're helping the enviroment when you really aren't to be stupid but to each his own.

[JTB]

Fair point. I guess I personally find the notion of thinking your helping the enviroment when you really aren't to be stupid but to each his own.

Agree

I DO NOT believe the type to own the Volt are doing so because of the fuel savings. That's where RP want's to hang his hat though.

[penultimatestraw]

What's the payback time on other types of cars?

Immediate, but mostly to the Middle East.

[penultimatestraw]

What is the "real" purpose? If it is helping the enviroment they could do more for the enviroment by planting 100 trees.

Are they swinging from the trees for transportation?

[NorthernVike]

Immediate, but mostly to the Middle East.

Realy? How much oil does the United States of America import from the middle east?

[Bert]

Are they swinging from the trees for transportation?

Come on try to keep up. I don't believe the "real" purpose of the "environmentally friendly" cars is transportation.

[penultimatestraw]

Realy? How much oil does the United States of America import from the middle east?

I don't care - how about partly?

[penultimatestraw]

Come on try to keep up. I don't believe the "real" purpose of the "environmentally friendly" cars is transportation.

Pretentious BS aside, of course it is about transportation. If it makes owners feel better about themselves to buy 'green', how is that any different than wasting money on any other car, say an overpriced status symbol like Mercedes, for example?

[parrot]

Why do they state the payback in terms of years rather than miles driven? It just introdouces an extra assumption into the equation.

[Bert]

Pretentious BS aside, of course it is about transportation. If it makes owners feel better about themselves to buy 'green', how is that any different than wasting money on any other car, say an overpriced status symbol like Mercedes, for example?

A Mercedes is significantly more luxurious than a Toyota corolla.

A "green" car is not significantly greener than a Toyota corolla.

[penultimatestraw]

A Mercedes is significantly more luxurious than a Toyota corolla.

A "green" car is not significantly greener than a Toyota corolla.

Luxury is in the eye of the beholder. Is the Mercedes more luxurious than a comparably priced, but far more reliable Lexus? Both cars (Volt and MB) are way overpriced for what they have to offer.

Fvck, if every car purchase needed to be rational half the cars on the road would cease to exist.

[Mike Honcho]

A Mercedes is significantly more luxurious than a Toyota corolla.

A "green" car is not significantly greener than a Toyota corolla.

Based on what metrics?

[Recliner Pilot]

“It’s about helping the environment"

It's debatable about it's smaller environmental impact once you factor in:

1. You are most likely burning coal to charge the car.
2. Battery disposal
3. Batteries that catch fire in crashes. Burning plastic and batteries can't be good for the hole in the ozone.
Also, firefighters have to be trained on how to cut you out of that inferno without getting electrocuted.



"and it’s a good feeling to do it.”

Fine. I have no problem if it makes you feel good.

So, according to the lefties here, it's not about the cost, or payback time. It's about feeling good and helping the environment. If that's the case why is there a government subsidy if you buy one? Seems like that is not necessary since economics are not a factor in the buying decision.

Dump the govt handouts and I won't give a ratsass about this turd.

[Recliner Pilot]

Based on what metrics?

It didn't even make the Top 12 Green Cars of 2012.

[penultimatestraw]

“It’s about helping the environment"

It's debatable about it's smaller environmental impact once you factor in:

1. You are most likely burning coal to charge the car.
2. Battery disposal
3. Batteries that catch fire in crashes. Burning plastic and batteries can't be good for the hole in the ozone.
Also, firefighters have to be trained on how to cut you out of that inferno without getting electrocuted.



"and it’s a good feeling to do it.”

Fine. I have no problem if it makes you feel good.

So, according to the lefties here, it's not about the cost, or payback time. It's about feeling good and helping the environment. If that's the case why is there a government subsidy if you buy one? Seems like that is not necessary since economics are not a factor in the buying decision.

Dump the govt handouts and I won't give a ratsass about this turd.

I agree RP, though I'd bet a lot of the people who buy Volts have other green energy like PV systems to offset some of the coal burning to charge their cars. Just a guess, but the demographic is wealthy environmentalists after all.

[Recliner Pilot]

I agree RP, though I'd bet a lot of the people who buy Volts have other green energy like PV systems to offset some of the coal burning to charge their cars. Just a guess, but the demographic is wealthy environmentalists after all.

That's fine.

Let the wealthy environmentalists pay for the whole car. Don't make the rest of us borrow money from China so you can feel good about yourself.

[Bert]

Let the wealthy environmentalists pay for the whole car. Don't make the rest of us borrow money from China so you can feel good about yourself.

[Me_2006]

That's fine.

Let the wealthy environmentalists pay for the whole car. Don't make the rest of us borrow money from China so you can feel good about yourself.

[NorthernVike]

That's fine.

Let the wealthy environmentalists pay for the whole car. Don't make the rest of us borrow money from China so you can feel good about yourself.

[Mookz]

That's fine.

Let the wealthy environmentalists pay for the whole car. Don't make the rest of us borrow money from China so you can feel good about yourself.

[Voltaire]

I don't know why the right obsesses about bashing this car so much.

It's not economical (yet). Everybody knows you can get a better ride for the same money with a gas car. The money you save on gas won't offset the upfront costs. That'll change; every forthcoming innovation will lower the 26.6 years.

At present the main function of the car -and others like it- is to spur innovation to make the electric car experience compatible with the gas ones. Each innovation lowers cost/improves the car. Someday, hopefully soon, the 26.6 years will be down to ~four or less and the transition off of gas and onto electric will be actually for cost-economy reasons rather than merely feel-good green ones. Folks won't willingly give up any features or driving experience en mass to do so. They'll only make the switch en mass when they get a better ride for the money to do so.

[Recliner Pilot]

I don't know why the right obsesses about bashing this car so much.

Because we are paying for it. Personally, you get out of my pocket and I wouldn't care about this care in the least.

[Voltaire]

Because we are paying for it. Personally, you get out of my pocket and I wouldn't care about this care in the least.

The subsidies are provided because the car isn't economically viable right now. To get from "here" to "there", is a transition phase. Hopefully the car can stand on it's own in the not so distant future.

[Recliner Pilot]

The subsidies are provided because the car isn't economically viable right now. To get from "here" to "there", is a transition phase. Hopefully the car can stand on it's own in the not so distant future.

Ever heard of the Toyota Prius? Nissan Leaf? The dozens of hybrids out there?

What makes the Volt worthy of tax dollars?

[penultimatestraw]

That's fine.

Let the wealthy environmentalists pay for the whole car. Don't make the rest of us borrow money from China so you can feel good about yourself.

I have no problem with this, though where do you think this ranks among poorly utilized government funds?

[Recliner Pilot]

I have no problem with this, though where do you think this ranks among poorly utilized government funds?

It doesn't matter where it "ranks". It makes the list of sh1t we shouldn't be spending money on. Get rid of it, we're broke.

[edjr]

About the same time it takes for it to merge on a highway on-ramp

[Recliner Pilot]

Awesome!

(Reuters) - General Motors Co sold a record number of Chevrolet Volt sedans in August — but that probably isn't a good thing for the automaker's bottom line.

Nearly two years after the introduction of the path-breaking plug-in hybrid, GM is still losing as much as $49,000 on each Volt it builds, according to estimates provided to Reuters by industry analysts and manufacturing experts.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/10/us-generalmotors-autos-volt-idUSBRE88904J20120910

[Little Rusty]

Payback time for buying a Chevy Volt: 26.6 YEARS

The payback is INSTANT.....when you buy a Volt, you're "saving the world"