38 replies to this topic

[SUXBNME]

Michelle Johnson’s tone was somber Thursday as she described how her daughter, an 11th-grader at Highland Park High School, could read at only a third-grade level.

“How can she begin to get a job when she’s still on an elementary level?” Johnson asked. “Your child is not college ready and can’t fill out an application.”

Johnson is one of eight individuals represented in a class action filed Thursday by the American Civil Liberties Union of Michigan.

The lawsuit, which could have national implications, is the first of its kind asserting a child’s fundamental right to read. It charges that state agencies, as well as those overseeing Highland Park schools, failed to take the effective steps to ensure students are reading at grade level, as set forth by state law and the Michigan Constitution.

http://stonesdetroit...-learn-to-read/

Now if they could just do something about tenure and break the focking teachers union.

[parrot]

Not to exonerate the school, but as long as we're filing papers, someone should be suing the mother for being a terrible parent.

[shovelheadt]

Not to exonerate the school, but as long as we're filing papers, someone should be suing the mother for being a terrible parent.

No sh1t. How can your child make it to 11th grade with you not knowing she can't read? Even minimal interaction around the house would clue you in.

[BunnysBastatrds]

If she is at a third grade reading level she should have failed every class entering junior high school. There is no way she could have understood Algebra, history, civics, and just about every other class leading to the eleventh grade.

I hope this gets national exposure but you know it will be excused and swept under the rug. Teachers who allow this should never be allowed in a classroom again and should have a black mark attached to their teaching credentials. This is no different than starving a child. It's abuse.

[MDC]

I think the ACLU is a great organization, very unfairly maligned by so-called conservatives who are really right-wingers who are hostile to civil liberties, but ... I don't see how "knowing how to read" is a fundamental right, or why this is a civil liberties issue at all?

[Phurfur]

This is a terrible law suit! This is the parents fault and shows what a nanny state we have become. The American people believe that they are not responsible for anything.

Maybe CPS should get involved.

[Phurfur]

I think the ACLU is a great organization, very unfairly maligned by so-called conservatives who are really right-wingers who are hostile to civil liberties, but ... I don't see how "knowing how to read" is a fundamental right, or why this is a civil liberties issue at all?

Do you actually believe this crap? This is what right wingers believe:

We hold that all individuals have the right to exercise sole dominion over their own lives, and have the right to live in whatever manner they choose, so long as they do not forcibly interfere with the equal right of others to live in whatever manner they choose.

How is that hostile to civil liberties?

[TimmySmith]

I'll wager that she is college level texter.

[SUXBNME]

This is a terrible law suit! This is the parents fault and shows what a nanny state we have become. The American people believe that they are not responsible for anything.

Maybe CPS should get involved.

You might want to look up some data on Detroits public school system and how many of the students are way, way below national averages. You can't blame all of the parents for shitty teachers and a shitty system.
I heard the numbers yesterday and it's appalling. I'll try and look them up later..

[MDC]

Do you actually believe this crap? This is what right wingers believe:

We hold that all individuals have the right to exercise sole dominion over their own lives, and have the right to live in whatever manner they choose, so long as they do not forcibly interfere with the equal right of others to live in whatever manner they choose.

How is that hostile to civil liberties?

With the exception of Ron Paul, who was basically treated like a joke and laughed off the stage by his own party, not one prominent Republican has ever complained about government surveillance or suspension of habeas corpus or the US government disappearing and even assassinating its own citizens - not one.

If the Republican party really cared about civil liberties you'd think this would be the central issue of the campaign. Of course they don't seem to have a problem with the government interfering when it comes to abortion, or drug use, or same sex marriage, or the fact that everyone born in the United States is a citizen according to our constitution. Hell, the party nominee wants to amend the Constitution to prevent gays from marrying. So yeah, I don't for a second believe the GOP cares about civil liberties any more than anyone else. It's all just sloganeering.

The only people I've heard complaining about this stuff over the past few years are a very small group of libertarians who have no voice in the GOP and some pundits like Glenn Greenwald who are generally considered liberals.

[parrot]

You might want to look up some data on Detroits public school system and how many of the students are way, way below national averages. You can't blame all of the parents for shitty teachers and a shitty system.
I heard the numbers yesterday and it's appalling. I'll try and look them up later..

You can't blame parents for a sh!tty school system, but you can sure as fock blame them for their own kid not knowing how to read. If my kids had never attended one day of public school they would still know how to read. I would see to it.

[BunnysBastatrds]

This is a terrible law suit! This is the parents fault and shows what a nanny state we have become. The American people believe that they are not responsible for anything.

Maybe CPS should get involved.

So you're saying the teachers who allowed this kid to skip through the system all the way to the eleventh grade have no responsibility? She should have failed early on and not been allowed to the next level without earning it but that would have made the teachers look bad and the unions can't have that when they are arguing about how great they are and vouchers are bad. It's the teachers job to determine if a child is ready to move on to the next grade and determine what help the child needs in any subject. The parents failed also by not helping her. But the teachers allowed this to go on for far to long. It's actually to late for this kid to get a decent education.

[Mike Honcho]

I think the ACLU is a great organization, very unfairly maligned by so-called conservatives who are really right-wingers who are hostile to civil liberties, but ... I don't see how "knowing how to read" is a fundamental right, or why this is a civil liberties issue at all?

Trying to understand that one myself...

[Drizzay]

Reading is FUNdamental.

[Savage Beast]

Just think if they would have taught her a mandatory labor skill since 8th grade in the public schools. Then she would be a skilled worker coming out of High School despite her reading disability. My friend and Mechanic Randy can't read any better then a 3rd grader(he was in Special Education and speech therapy(couldn't talk worth a dang either) throughout his entire public school education), and yet he can take apart an engine and put it back together blindfolded. He is one fine mechanic. You don't even have to read English at all to be a skilled worker. The illegal Mexicans who build houses in the USA can't read or even speak English worth a crap, and yet they are skilled workers? Go figure?

[parrot]

Just think if they would have taught her a mandatory labor skill since 8th grade in the public schools. Then she would be a skilled worker coming out of High School despite her reading disability. My friend and Mechanic Randy can't read any better then a 3rd grader(he was in Special Education and speech therapy(couldn't talk worth a dang either) throughout his entire public school education), and yet he can take apart an engine and put it back together blindfolded. He is one fine mechanic. You don't even have to read English at all to be a skilled worker. The illegal Mexicans who build houses in the USA can't read or even speak English worth a crap, and yet they are skilled workers? Go figure?

Yeah, the same system that failed to teach her to read past '###### and Jane' should have no problem magically teaching her an immediately marketable skilled job like mechanics or carpentry.

[Savage Beast]

Yeah, the same system that failed to teach her to read past '###### and Jane' should have no problem magically teaching her an immediately marketable skilled job like mechanics or carpentry.

Under the current USA public education system you are correct. We don't have a mandatory skilled labor public education system in place. I'm simply stating that we should is all.

[BunnysBastatrds]

Yeah, the same system that failed to teach her to read past '###### and Jane' should have no problem magically teaching her an immediately marketable skilled job like mechanics or carpentry.

They should teach kids how to do this if they're stoopid. How fawking cool is that? Peenie?

[SUXBNME]

Yeah, the same system that failed to teach her to read past '###### and Jane' should have no problem magically teaching her an immediately marketable skilled job like mechanics or carpentry.

Most of the older auto techs I know are stupid as far as test taking and what not.

[jerryskids]

Put me in the camp that doesn't see how this is a civil liberties issue.

That being said, there is plenty of blame to go around. But the ultimate blame is with the parents (or parent in this case). If they win the case, I'd like to see the money put into a trust fund for the kid's education. If that mom gets one penny, the message is that we as a society reward abandoning your kids' development.

[parrot]

Under the current USA public education system you are correct. We don't have a mandatory skilled labor public education system in place. I'm simply stating that we should is all.

My point is that there are lots of systemic problems that a simple curiculum change is not going to cure. A kid can not learn a vocational skill just as readily as they can not learn to read. Schools need to be better, parents need to be better, and kids need to be better

[Strike]

I don't have a problem with this lawsuit. I agree that the parent has a huge amount of responsibility for their child's education. However, I believe it is the school's responsibility NOT to keep passing kids that don't meet the benchmarks for their grade. I think the lawsuit has merit on that basis. If the schools are trying to educate the child but the child isn't learning, for whatever reason, then don't pass them. It seems simple to me.

[parrot]

I don't have a problem with this lawsuit. I agree that the parent has a huge amount of responsibility for their child's education. However, I believe it is the school's responsibility NOT to keep passing kids that don't meet the benchmarks for their grade. I think the lawsuit has merit on that basis. If the schools are trying to educate the child but the child isn't learning, for whatever reason, then don't pass them. It seems simple to me.

I think the main issue with the lawsuit is learning to read being treating as a civil liberty issue. Is there really a "right" to learn to read? And while a lot of students are failing to learn to read, others apparently ARE learning to read, so even if you accept this idea that there is a right involved, how can you say it's being denied when others are achieving it in the same system.

I don't think anyone has a big problem with trying to make schools more accountable - I know I don't anyway - just questioning if it's really a task for the ACLU.

[Strike]

I think the main issue with the lawsuit is learning to read being treating as a civil liberty issue. Is there really a "right" to learn to read? And while a lot of students are failing to learn to read, others apparently ARE learning to read, so even if you accept this idea that there is a right involved, how can you say it's being denied when others are achieving it in the same system.

I don't think anyone has a big problem with trying to make schools more accountable - I know I don't anyway - just questioning if it's really a task for the ACLU.

The courts have ruled there is a right to an education. So, if we're saying there's a right to an education, I don't think it's that far fetched to say there's a right to a quality education. And, from reading the article, it sounds like this particular school district isn't providing that. They pretty much acknowledge it. So, other districts might have a valid defense if they can show that in general their students are learning. In this case, it seems like the students that are learning are learning despite a poor school system.

[parrot]

The courts have ruled there is a right to an education. So, if we're saying there's a right to an education, I don't think it's that far fetched to say there's a right to a quality education. And, from reading the article, it sounds like this particular school district isn't providing that. They pretty much acknowledge it. So, other districts might have a valid defense if they can show that in general their students are learning. In this case, it seems like the students that are learning are learning despite a poor school system.

I don't really have a problem with the lawsuit either, as long as the end result is forcing schools to improve how they are doing things and not a financial windfall for parents who often haven't exactly held up their end of the deal either. They need to start being part of the solution and not part of the problem.

[SUXBNME]

I don't really have a problem with the lawsuit either, as long as the end result is forcing schools to improve how they are doing things and not a financial windfall for parents who often haven't exactly held up their end of the deal either. They need to start being part of the solution and not part of the problem.

This is the way I understood it, and the main reason I'm for it.

[penultimatestraw]

I'll wager that she is college level texter.

LOL

[BLS]

The good news about this lack of public education is that the new crop of technically-trained chumps coming out of college are about as dumb as a box of rocks.


My younger brother is 32, and still can't spell "spaghetti" and doesn't understand the grammatical difference between 'you're' and 'your'.
And he's actually pretty smart overall.

Public education is a focking joke.

I went to a Ron Paul meeting back in 2007 and one couple had a kid who was 7 years old and was home schooled. He was obviously young and I expected the same 7yo BS.

This kid, comes up to me during a conversation we were having about the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and interrupts politely and says "Did you guys read the story in last weeks Star Tribune about the group who protested the war at the capital and were charged with trespassing, yet they were on tax-payer funded property?".

I was like.....uh........'who are you and how the HE!! do you know that stuff?"

He said, "Oh I read the newspaper every morning for breakfast."

7 years old.

Homeschooling IMO CAN produce MUCH more productive future generations.

[NorthernVike]

The good news about this lack of public education is that the new crop of technically-trained chumps coming out of college are about as dumb as a box of rocks.


My younger brother is 32, and still can't spell "spaghetti" and doesn't understand the grammatical difference between 'you're' and 'your'.
And he's actually pretty smart overall.

Public education is a focking joke.

I went to a Ron Paul meeting back in 2007 and one couple had a kid who was 7 years old and was home schooled. He was obviously young and I expected the same 7yo BS.

This kid, comes up to me during a conversation we were having about the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and interrupts politely and says "Did you guys read the story in last weeks Star Tribune about the group who protested the war at the capital and were charged with trespassing, yet they were on tax-payer funded property?".

I was like.....uh........'who are you and how the HE!! do you know that stuff?"

He said, "Oh I read the newspaper every morning for breakfast."

7 years old.

Homeschooling IMO CAN produce MUCH more productive future generations.

That would be because their parents are not union goons.

[Savage Beast]

The good news about this lack of public education is that the new crop of technically-trained chumps coming out of college are about as dumb as a box of rocks.


My younger brother is 32, and still can't spell "spaghetti" and doesn't understand the grammatical difference between 'you're' and 'your'.
And he's actually pretty smart overall.

Public education is a focking joke.

I went to a Ron Paul meeting back in 2007 and one couple had a kid who was 7 years old and was home schooled. He was obviously young and I expected the same 7yo BS.

This kid, comes up to me during a conversation we were having about the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and interrupts politely and says "Did you guys read the story in last weeks Star Tribune about the group who protested the war at the capital and were charged with trespassing, yet they were on tax-payer funded property?".

I was like.....uh........'who are you and how the HE!! do you know that stuff?"

He said, "Oh I read the newspaper every morning for breakfast."

7 years old.

Homeschooling IMO CAN produce MUCH more productive future generations.

Problem is, that 1% of the entire US population is able to home school their kids effectively. Most parents are too retarded themselves(like the woman in the ACLU lawsuit for example), and the rest have both parents working, so nobody is able to stay home and teach their kids.

I agree that universal home schooling is the correct answer, but it isn't possible in our retarded, greedy, lazy society.

[Lord4GL]

Problem is, that 1% of the entire US population is able to home school their kids effectively. Most parents are too retarded themselves(like the woman in the ACLU lawsuit for example), and the rest have both parents working, so nobody is able to stay home and teach their kids.

I agree that universal home schooling is the correct answer, but it isn't possible in our retarded, greedy, lazy society.

Pretty accurate assessment. My wife educates our kids and does a great job with it. She is part of some coops and I am dumbfounded by what some of these other parents are doing with home school. Home schooling is great, if the parents put in the time and honestly work with their kids. There are many out there who don't.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy!]

Do you actually believe this crap? This is what right wingers believe:

We hold that all individuals have the right to exercise sole dominion over their own lives, and have the right to live in whatever manner they choose, so long as they do not forcibly interfere with the equal right of others to live in whatever manner they choose.

How is that hostile to civil liberties?

Except for the gheys. And Muslims. And...

[Brad GLuckman]

The good news about this lack of public education is that the new crop of technically-trained chumps coming out of college are about as dumb as a box of rocks.


My younger brother is 32, and still can't spell "spaghetti" and doesn't understand the grammatical difference between 'you're' and 'your'.
And he's actually pretty smart overall.

Public education is a focking joke.

I went to a Ron Paul meeting back in 2007 and one couple had a kid who was 7 years old and was home schooled. He was obviously young and I expected the same 7yo BS.

This kid, comes up to me during a conversation we were having about the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and interrupts politely and says "Did you guys read the story in last weeks Star Tribune about the group who protested the war at the capital and were charged with trespassing, yet they were on tax-payer funded property?".

I was like.....uh........'who are you and how the HE!! do you know that stuff?"

He said, "Oh I read the newspaper every morning for breakfast."

7 years old.

Homeschooling IMO CAN produce MUCH more productive future generations.

Home schooling can also result in the kid being a social retard...just saying. I've met some people who were home schooled as kids and even as adults they're very socially awkward. I'd rather send the kid to a private school or move to a town with a strong public school system. Obviously that's not an option for everyone, but neither is home schooling.

[SUXBNME]

Home schooling can also result in the kid being a social retard....

[Ray Lewis's Limo Driver]

That makes sense, your child is stupid so let's go find someone to blame....

[parrot]

Homeschooling IMO CAN produce MUCH more productive future generations.

On a small scale, this might be true, but, think of the average idiot... do you really want that person trying to educate their own kids?

[TimmySmith]

On a small scale, this might be true, but, think of the average idiot... do you really want that person trying to educate their own kids?

Many of the average idiots I knew growing up went on to become public school teachers. Secondly, if you are not reinforcing the education that your kids get everyday (helping them with homework, reviewing tests and papers) they probably aren't excelling.

[parrot]

Many of the average idiots I knew growing up went on to become public school teachers. Secondly, if you are not reinforcing the education that your kids get everyday (helping them with homework, reviewing tests and papers) they probably aren't excelling.

I've been preaching the importance of parents the whole thread. That's my problem, I know way too many people that can't seem to handle the basics of parenting, much less educating their own kids.

[Vikings4ever]

That makes sense, your child is stupid so let's go find someone to blame....

I'd say it's more likely the kid being a lazy fock.

But schools shouldn't be passing kids who can't read for sh*t. Simple as that.