Jump to content



Photo

Mocks are worthless for the most part


  • Please log in to reply
21 replies to this topic

#1 jgcrawfish

jgcrawfish

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 12,324 posts

Posted 21 August 2012 - 12:16 PM

So things have been pretty busy and I haven't had a chance to do many mocks aside from the here on the FFToday board. I decided to try a couple last night on FFC. Sign onto a 12 team PPR/Flex which is fairly close to the leagues I'm in, picking from the 6 spot undecided on what to do when Foster, Rice, McCoy, Rodgers and either Calvin or Brady are gone. I wasn't big on drafting Brady that early, wasn't big on any RB's past those top 3, and wasn't ready to spend that high a pick on WR which is a very deep position this year. So the draft starts:

Rodgers
Rice
McCoy
Demarco Murray
Ryan Tannehill

I bailed on the draft. Obviously lots of good info to be gleamed from my team when I get possibly the top rated RB in FF @ the 6 spot. :rolleyes:

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

#2 mgs316

mgs316

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 1,849 posts

Posted 21 August 2012 - 12:19 PM

Kind of agree, some times people stay within logic but most of the time don't.

Plus a lot of people draft using their league rules which basically makes the draft worthless.

Oh you have to start two TE's? Sweet.

#3 jgcrawfish

jgcrawfish

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 12,324 posts

Posted 21 August 2012 - 12:21 PM

Kind of agree, some times people stay within logic but most of the dont.

Plus a lot of people draft using their league rules which basically makes the draft worthless.

Oh you have to start two TE's? Sweet.


That's the problem they're not tailored specific enough for league settings, and there's no freakin way I'm mocking with leaguemates and giving away any strategy. :nono: The one I participated in on here is far and away the best one because it's knowledgable guys making good picks.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

#4 FeelingMN

FeelingMN

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 8,043 posts

Posted 21 August 2012 - 12:25 PM

Mocks are a waste of time. Just look at the ADP data. All the assholes are averaged out and you can still get a decent idea of who'll be available where. FFC's scenario calculator thingy is awesome. Gives you the probability certain players will be available at any given pick.

Ultimately, when the money's on the line, people draft differently than in mocks. Save your time doing that and look at more pron. :thumbsup:

I made it for 5 seconds. No focking way I want to see this. I can watch the human death with little problem, but not this sh1t. I can watch a beheading or folks being burned alive, but this sh1t gets me.


#5 Laurence Maroney's Nuts

Laurence Maroney's Nuts

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 1,851 posts

Posted 21 August 2012 - 12:40 PM

Yeah, most are a waste as someone usually blows it up.

Was in a "standard" auction mock (non-flex), and some guy drafts both Jimmy Graham and Gronkowski... because in his league, he can start two TEs... :doh:

#6 Joey Gladstone

Joey Gladstone

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 9,823 posts

Posted 21 August 2012 - 01:06 PM

You are right. They're still damn addictive.

2-2-14 LOB


#7 Frozenbeernuts

Frozenbeernuts

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 8,045 posts

Posted 21 August 2012 - 01:22 PM

Kind of agree, some times people stay within logic but most of the time don't.

Plus a lot of people draft using their league rules which basically makes the draft worthless.

Oh you have to start two TE's? Sweet.

I want to reach through the screen and gouge peoples eyes out with a bic pen then castrate them with a dull rock when they draft according to their league rules. Like guys taking their "keeper" in the first round. I dont get that mad because they messed up the mock, i get that mad because of the monumental amount of stupidity to think it makes the draft anywhere near what their faggy league draft will look like.

That being said, i do think ffc gives a reasonable expectation of where to draft guys. I have only ran into two or three dbags messing up a draft. The one thing that skews a draft is having the rankings listed right infront of your eyes on that site. Mfl has julio jones as the 5th or so wr while ffc has him at 2. This clearly affects the draft as his adp on both sites is off by around 7 picks, at least that was the case last time i checked. Decker is almost a 2 round difference.

I will admit that my last 2 mocks have produced megatron at 10. I guess that tells me there is a minute chance of him falling to me at that spot like last year.

I do also like the trash talking involved. Usually a bunch of tools telling me my team sucks because my rb arent good enough.

#8 jgcrawfish

jgcrawfish

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 12,324 posts

Posted 21 August 2012 - 01:38 PM

I want to reach through the screen and gouge peoples eyes out with a bic pen then castrate them with a dull rock when they draft according to their league rules. Like guys taking their "keeper" in the first round. I dont get that mad because they messed up the mock, i get that mad because of the monumental amount of stupidity to think it makes the draft anywhere near what their faggy league draft will look like.

That being said, i do think ffc gives a reasonable expectation of where to draft guys. I have only ran into two or three dbags messing up a draft. The one thing that skews a draft is having the rankings listed right infront of your eyes on that site. Mfl has julio jones as the 5th or so wr while ffc has him at 2. This clearly affects the draft as his adp on both sites is off by around 7 picks, at least that was the case last time i checked. Decker is almost a 2 round difference.

I will admit that my last 2 mocks have produced megatron at 10. I guess that tells me there is a minute chance of him falling to me at that spot like last year.

I do also like the trash talking involved. Usually a bunch of tools telling me my team sucks because my rb arent good enough.



ffc's ranking on the pick list are adjusted by their ADP, so if Julio trends higher, he moves up the list of picks. the thing that killed me was that there is abso-freakin-lutely no way that Arian Foster would fall to me at 6 in ANY league I play in, so I don't get anything resembling a true representation of what my team might look like. If somehow I got Foster @ that pick, everything about the rest of my draft is changed drastically. I just dropped from the draft, it wasn't even worth it.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

#9 Frozenbeernuts

Frozenbeernuts

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 8,045 posts

Posted 21 August 2012 - 02:01 PM

ffc's ranking on the pick list are adjusted by their ADP, so if Julio trends higher, he moves up the list of picks. the thing that killed me was that there is abso-freakin-lutely no way that Arian Foster would fall to me at 6 in ANY league I play in, so I don't get anything resembling a true representation of what my team might look like. If somehow I got Foster @ that pick, everything about the rest of my draft is changed drastically. I just dropped from the draft, it wasn't even worth it.

Yeah i know when that happens it is bogus. I just meant that it doesnt happen often to me as a majority of mocks end up relatively close to what a guys adp is. But it does happen.

#10 deefree93

deefree93

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 229 posts

Posted 21 August 2012 - 02:24 PM

There are some other options, other than "live" mocks which don't really mean much anyways

1 - cheatsheetwizard.com - This is a draft simulator that you can setup to match your exact league settings. You can also enter keepers (although sadly they don't have them attached to a draft pick in this years version). Once the actual draft begins, you can choose to have the picks be done off of ADP, or through a combination of expert rankings across a huge number of FF services.

You get one for draft free and I went ahead and spent the $12 to do unlimited drafts. I think the cost is worth it for those who are in a number of leagues with different settings and need more accurate simulation of drafting strategies. Another really cool feature is that it rates your draft position by position and overall against the rest of the league based on expert rankings. Useful for evaluating different strategies. I strongly recommend this service and as find their AI system provides a realistic draft.

2 - ESPN Insider - They just released a draft evaluator tool on insider. Similar to what I described above, and the bonus is that you can attach your keepers to lost draft picks. Downside is that the interface is very clunky and the AI is terrible. Hopefully they fix it, but when I tried my first draft there people were drafting 3 QB's and 3 TE's so it was not realistic at all.

#11 420allstars

420allstars

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 2,365 posts

Posted 21 August 2012 - 02:50 PM

I agree 100% too many guys like me who only do mocks to try out something strange they would never try in a "real" draft.. :banana:

#12 msudavedawg

msudavedawg

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 2,482 posts

Posted 21 August 2012 - 03:50 PM

They show that if you throw 12 people together in a league at least one of them will do something dumb or unexpected in a draft. Always a good reminder each year.
FF teams to me are kind of like pets. I love mine. I couldn't really care less about yours.

#13 steelers2101

steelers2101

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 2,000 posts

Posted 21 August 2012 - 04:10 PM

People who complain about how people draft in mocks that happen every minute are petty, need to grow up, re-evaluate their priorities, and learn a little respect and decency.

12 Team Keeper snake -.5 PPR, (starters) + flex, idp, return yds scored same as passing 

QB(1) Rodgers, Luck, Brady

RB(2) Bernard, Miller, McFadden, Helu, Archer, L.Murray

WR(3) Julio, Cooks, Benjamin, Quick, Britt, Dobson

TE(1) Rudolph, Green

D(1) Hou

IDP(2) matchups

 

14 Team Auction - bonus for TD length

QB(1) Rodgers, Foles

RB(2) Bernard, Miller, Stewart, Freeman, L.Murray

WR(3) Hunter, Quick, Watkins, Bowe, Hawkins

TE(1) Gronk, Rudolph

D(1) Cin

 


#14 Laurence Maroney's Nuts

Laurence Maroney's Nuts

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 1,851 posts

Posted 21 August 2012 - 04:21 PM

People who complain about how people draft in mocks that happen every minute are petty, need to grow up, re-evaluate their priorities, and learn a little respect and decency.


bertstare.jpg

#15 thePRO

thePRO

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 1,420 posts

Posted 21 August 2012 - 05:00 PM

My mock drafts have all gone pretty well on what I'd expect to see in a real draft...which is what I did yesterday.

Biggest mistake ever. I said WTH, I'll just do a random league with no connection to the ppl for my 1st draft of the year.

I picked an Eagles league, being a Cowboys fan, and god those ppl were dumb. I wish I could've left that league when I saw the first 5 picks.

Rodgers
Brady
Brees
McCoy
Calvin Johnson

I don't even want to say what my first 3 picks were at the 9 spot. Foster, CJ1k, and McFadden. Yes, get me out of that stupid league...please. And 8 were there drafting.

:shocking:

Mock drafts went much better.

Brees

Lacy, CJ1k, McFadden

Vereen, Sankey

Cobb, Hopkins

Brown, Stills

Cruz

Bennett

Panthers DST

Dawson


#16 cheesesteaks

cheesesteaks

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 319 posts

Posted 21 August 2012 - 05:32 PM

I like mock drafts in FFC since it allows me to try different strategies. The other positive is that it allows you to think quickly and adjust when a group of players you expected are not there or if certain runs occur.

#17 Fantasy Noob

Fantasy Noob

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 1,156 posts

Posted 21 August 2012 - 05:43 PM

There are limitations but there is plenty of info to be gleaned if you are looking closely enough.

It is useful for testing out different strategies like WR/WR, QB/TE (shudder), QB/WR and seeing what your top 4-5 picks are like.

Plus a very under rated aspect is the chat function. You have to make the first move but once you start chatting and throwing out some jokes (avoid mocking their picks that can cause hard feelings even in a make believe draft :doh: ) you will get 2 to 3 people to respond and almost always the ones that respond are fairly knowledgeable. This is probably over half the value of the mocks for me is the chats I get going with other people on their home teams, players they like, sleepers, etc.

Knowledge is power and whoever has the most has a dramatic edge in games of chance. :doublethumbsup:

#18 giraldi02

giraldi02

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 1,579 posts

Posted 21 August 2012 - 09:01 PM

bertstare.jpg


Lol

#19 ralphster

ralphster

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 1,753 posts

Posted 21 August 2012 - 09:15 PM

1. These are mock drafts right? The place you go to try new and different ideas for who you should draft and when right? I detest the 'draft realism' jerks on ffc who go all up in arms over me picking player X in the 4th round. It's a M O C K. Get over yourself. Mock nazi jackas$.

2. Sure a player is gonna fall to you that would 'never do so in reality'. If you hate it so bad click the computer control and come back in 20 mins. Bad drafts and picks happen to all of us - but not often enough to go back to espn or yahoo mocks right?

4. Ya I skipped three. Mocks help you see who *might* be around at what round. Anyone taking mock draft results to heart (or even worse posting mock draft results in the little help board) is overestimating their importance.

5. Part of not STB on draft day involves being prepared. Mocks put you in the position to draft without the consequences of a real draft.
“When I played pro football, I never set out to hurt anyone deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something” ~ D. Butkus

#20 jgcrawfish

jgcrawfish

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 12,324 posts

Posted 21 August 2012 - 09:55 PM

People who complain about how people draft in mocks that happen every minute are petty, need to grow up, re-evaluate their priorities, and learn a little respect and decency.


And with that in mind I'm pretty sure I know who farked up the mock last night by taking Ryan Tannehill at #5 overall. :rolleyes: Please explain to me what it is to show "a little respect and decency" to a fake draft?! I didn't insult anyone, didn't call anyone any names, I just bailed because I was going to get nothing out it. Then I posted on a completely different site what a worthless waste of time it was. This wasn't someone going a round earlier on Percy Harvin than his ADP, this was Ryan Tannehill five picks in. There is no real-world scenario where that happens. So, perhaps you should stroll your condescending little ass up in front of the mirror peer at it for a while and figure out which one of us was showing a little respect and decency in your post.

:cheers:

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

#21 Frozenbeernuts

Frozenbeernuts

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 8,045 posts

Posted 22 August 2012 - 07:09 AM

1. These are mock drafts right? The place you go to try new and different ideas for who you should draft and when right? I detest the 'draft realism' jerks on ffc who go all up in arms over me picking player X in the 4th round. It's a M O C K. Get over yourself. Mock nazi jackas$.

2. Sure a player is gonna fall to you that would 'never do so in reality'. If you hate it so bad click the computer control and come back in 20 mins. Bad drafts and picks happen to all of us - but not often enough to go back to espn or yahoo mocks right?

4. Ya I skipped three. Mocks help you see who *might* be around at what round. Anyone taking mock draft results to heart (or even worse posting mock draft results in the little help board) is overestimating their importance.

5. Part of not STB on draft day involves being prepared. Mocks put you in the position to draft without the consequences of a real draft.


When somone reaches for a player by a round or two, i usually ask them why they did it. Like taking bradshaw and bush at 3.10 and r bush at 4.01. Just try to pick someones brain to see what they see. When its an obvious dbag messing it up or taking roddy white in the first because his keeper league is like that is when i get frustrated.

One that i was a part of took fjax in the first at 8/10 and bmarsh in the second made a point that if he didnt take them where he did he wasnt getting either of them, even if he swaped the picks. I think it was a stupid move but if he values fjax and bmarsh that much then i guess it makes it real enough if this guy happens to be in your league.

One more note: what is the most common type of scoring for qb, 4 or 6 pt pass td? I was drafting on there and a guy said he was in an 8 pt pet pass td league. I said it was ridiculous as most leagues only score pass td at 4 points. He responded by telling me he had never even heard of 4 pt per pass td and contended that he has been playing fantasy for a long time. Now obviously this guy doesnt know much about fantasy football but i argued with a few people as to which scoring format was more common, 4 or 6 points.

#22 jgcrawfish

jgcrawfish

    FF Geek

  • Members
  • 12,324 posts

Posted 22 August 2012 - 08:56 AM

When somone reaches for a player by a round or two, i usually ask them why they did it. Like taking bradshaw and bush at 3.10 and r bush at 4.01. Just try to pick someones brain to see what they see. When its an obvious dbag messing it up or taking roddy white in the first because his keeper league is like that is when i get frustrated.

One that i was a part of took fjax in the first at 8/10 and bmarsh in the second made a point that if he didnt take them where he did he wasnt getting either of them, even if he swaped the picks. I think it was a stupid move but if he values fjax and bmarsh that much then i guess it makes it real enough if this guy happens to be in your league.

One more note: what is the most common type of scoring for qb, 4 or 6 pt pass td? I was drafting on there and a guy said he was in an 8 pt pet pass td league. I said it was ridiculous as most leagues only score pass td at 4 points. He responded by telling me he had never even heard of 4 pt per pass td and contended that he has been playing fantasy for a long time. Now obviously this guy doesnt know much about fantasy football but i argued with a few people as to which scoring format was more common, 4 or 6 points.



And you've hit on the big issue, 10/12/14 are drafing and a couple of people go in with their league settings in mind. I'm with you, I've never heard of 8 pts for any score. I played in league where kickers could score like 8 pts for a 48 yrd fg and like 11 for 51+. That doesn't mean I'm taking a kicker in round 6 on a mock where scoring is all freakin standard! I don't remember which site it was, but years ago one of them had a "serious" mocks option, where I found them to be a bit more realistic.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)